696 réponses à ce sujet

[Kenadian]

You know, I could totally get behind nerfing TC to hell if I got my Harrier. Seriously BW, deal with the devil? Please?

[element eater]

Air Quotes wrote...
 being an Infiltrator means you can stand on your own and not be as dependent on the team to survive or cap objectives.

i agree

[Rolenka]

In my opinion, the prevalence of Infiltrators may be a sign that it's too easy to die in Gold and there are very few "survivability" powers in the game.

The only other ones are damage reduction modes, none of which are base class powers except Tech Armor, and I think Sentinel is underplayed because its appeal -- versatility -- is hard to achieve when we are limited to 3 powers.

That said, Tactical Cloak needs to be brought in line. My point is that its overuse is also a symptom.

Whatever you do though, don't make more enemies see through it. It needs to retain what makes it cool -- stealth. Honestly, you could eliminate the damage bonus altogether and rebalance sniper rifles and I would be happy.

[Wordlywisewiz]

Give them head shot only damage lol

[Kenadian]

Wordlywisewiz wrote...

Give them head shot only damage lol

But then we'd need boss weakpoints back.

[Sinapus]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

This week's balance changes are now live and can be found here.

As a heads up to the community, we are reviewing Tactical Cloak for next week's balance changes. Our data shows that an overly large percentage of players are still using Infiltrators on Gold (33.6%). As always, we appreciate constructive feedback on this topic.

What percentage of those Infiltrators complete the Gold match? Gather some other stats on them while you're at it.

Just because a lot of people play Infiltrator on Gold doesn't mean they do it well.

[.458]

When looking at TC, I sure hope you look at *which* race is using it. If 80% of the infiltrators on gold are geth, please don't kill the other races with TC. The quarian male for example has team skills...please don't ruin it right when something is doing so well in a team.

[humes spork]

Sinapus wrote...

What percentage of those Infiltrators complete the Gold match? Gather some other stats on them while you're at it.

You know good and well that's going to be a very low percentage. The total completion percentage -- infiltrators or not -- for gold is extremely low, because players fail intentionally after completing the wave 10 objective or refuse to extract. I'd even go so far as to argue that percentage would be even lower than the total, given the infiltrator class' appeal to the min/max crowd, who are the same people to be intentionally failing wave 10 gold the most.

[RGFrog]

Eric Fagnan wrote...
Well in my opinion Tactical Cloak is hugely popular (especially on Gold) because it gives you massive damage bonuses AND great utility and survivability. We don't have any other power quite like that. It's a great power and we're glad people like it, but it is way more powerful than probably any other power in the game. We've generally tried to buff other classes and powers but it's clear that we would have to make signficant additional balance changes to huge numbers of abilities (and the enemies to compensate) in order to match Cloak's power, and that is something we just don't have the manpower for.

ROFLMAO, so you're considering a nerf to 1.3 player out of 4 in every match. Simply because you don't have the time to instead correct the problems with the other 3. <_<

Modifié par RGFrog, 22 juin 2012 - 01:27 .

[T1l]

RGFrog wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...
Well in my opinion Tactical Cloak is hugely popular (especially on Gold) because it gives you massive damage bonuses AND great utility and survivability. We don't have any other power quite like that. It's a great power and we're glad people like it, but it is way more powerful than probably any other power in the game. We've generally tried to buff other classes and powers but it's clear that we would have to make signficant additional balance changes to huge numbers of abilities (and the enemies to compensate) in order to match Cloak's power, and that is something we just don't have the manpower for.

ROFLMAO, so you're considering a nerf to one player out of 4 in every match. Simply because you don't have the time to instead correct the problems with the other 3. <_<

That's exactly what he's saying. It's understandable, though. Rebalancing all of the other race/class combinations to bring them inline with Tactical Cloak would be massively time consuming. It's easier just to nerf the hell out of Tactical Cloak, leaving it 'mediocre' and less appealing so other classes end up being better represented in matches.

I think it's an awful way of looking at things. Breaking things down in to numbers on a spreadsheet is interesting, but it's not indicative of fun.

[Edalborez]

How bad could it be?

[RGFrog]

Bringing everything in line with TC is not balancing. That's just making for a bland game where everything is the same. So players then pick classes based on the colors the class powers produce.

BORING.

Balance is evaluating the underutilized classes for WHY they are not being used and correcting that. No one is going to play more soldier because TC is nerfed. Soldier is still broken. It's a weapon class that can't do any useful damage...

Nerfing one thing in any class will not make any of the other broken things more viable.

Modifié par RGFrog, 22 juin 2012 - 01:32 .

[ForThessia]

wow they havent even nerfed it yet and theres so many tears....... cant imagine whats gonna happen next week when they actually nerf it >.>

[Kenadian]

RGFrog wrote...

Bringing everything in line with TC is not balancing. That's just making for a bland game where everything is the same. So players then pick classes based on the colors the class powers produce.

BORING.

Balance is evaluating the underutilized classes for WHY they are not being used and correcting that. No one is going to play more soldier because TC is nerfed. Soldier is still broken. It's a weapon class that can't do any useful damage... Nerfing one thing will not make any of the other broken things more viable.

You lose tons of credibility by saying soldiers can't do anything, when they're literally the second highest damaging class. Behind Infiltrators. Lulz.

[Mozts]

RGFrog wrote...

Bringing everything in line with TC is not balancing. That's just making for a bland game where everything is the same. So players then pick classes based on the colors the class powers produce.

BORING.

Balance is evaluating the underutilized classes for WHY they are not being used and correcting that. No one is going to play more soldier because TC is nerfed. Soldier is still broken. It's a weapon class that can't do any useful damage...

Nerfing one thing in any class will not make any of the other broken things more viable.

Right, soldier is broken... Very good argument. Biotic detonation is trash too.

lol

Modifié par Mozts, 22 juin 2012 - 01:35 .

[RGFrog]

ForThessia wrote...

wow they havent even nerfed it yet and theres so many tears....... cant imagine whats gonna happen next week when they actually nerf it >.>

Based on the trending the only thing that can be done: save credits now so in a month or two when DLC is released you can get everything/everything leveld up and enjoy the game for 2 weeks until the 50 players that don't want anyone having fun convince Eric to ruin the game again.

[RGFrog]

Kenadian wrote...

RGFrog wrote...

Bringing everything in line with TC is not balancing. That's just making for a bland game where everything is the same. So players then pick classes based on the colors the class powers produce.

BORING.

Balance is evaluating the underutilized classes for WHY they are not being used and correcting that. No one is going to play more soldier because TC is nerfed. Soldier is still broken. It's a weapon class that can't do any useful damage... Nerfing one thing will not make any of the other broken things more viable.

You lose tons of credibility by saying soldiers can't do anything, when they're literally the second highest damaging class. Behind Infiltrators. Lulz.

Yes, and that's why so many gold lobbies are full of soldiers...

[Kenadian]

RGFrog wrote...

Kenadian wrote...

RGFrog wrote...

Bringing everything in line with TC is not balancing. That's just making for a bland game where everything is the same. So players then pick classes based on the colors the class powers produce.

BORING.

Balance is evaluating the underutilized classes for WHY they are not being used and correcting that. No one is going to play more soldier because TC is nerfed. Soldier is still broken. It's a weapon class that can't do any useful damage... Nerfing one thing will not make any of the other broken things more viable.

You lose tons of credibility by saying soldiers can't do anything, when they're literally the second highest damaging class. Behind Infiltrators. Lulz.

Yes, and that's why so many gold lobbies are full of soldiers...

You on PC? I'll gladly do a match with you on gold as a Human Soldier.

[ParanoidDrone]

Lovely buffs to the Turret and Drone, but I was hoping for a Cryo Blast buff as well. It's almost totally outclassed by Warp as a debuffer except AOE, but that's only if you take the Radius evolution at Rank 4, which in turn leaves it with a rather sad duration. Not to mention that Warp deals damage and sets up/detonates biotic combos to boot.

Regarding Tactical Cloak, you could start by making Evolution 6's damage bonus additive instead of multiplicative, but IDK if you can do that without a patch. Likewise for making the damage bonuses apply strictly to weapon and melee damage, not powers. Messing with the base duration and Evolution 1 duration bonus could also make that option more attractive compared to the damage bonus everyone takes right now.

[DarkAbsolution]

(sigh) I had a huge long rant about any attempt to nerf TC written out, but ultimately it just comes down to this. Nerfing TC is going to ruin the FUN of the game for a lot of people. BW better be prepared for a significant community backlash if it's nerfed in any major way.

The vocal minority, and it is just a vocal minority, might get their way, but there'll be a whole lot less people playing when the average joe doesn't have a fun class to fall back onto.

Some stats a while back said that Soldier was the most played class overall, but Eric is saying that Infiltrator accounts for 33% of the class usage on Gold. That to me says that the average Gold player has trouble completing Gold without using an Infiltrator, and BW is considering taking the power of that ability away from them.

NOT a good move.

[Kenadian]

ParanoidDrone wrote...

Lovely buffs to the Turret and Drone, but I was hoping for a Cryo Blast buff as well. It's almost totally outclassed by Warp as a debuffer except AOE, but that's only if you take the Radius evolution at Rank 4, which in turn leaves it with a rather sad duration. Not to mention that Warp deals damage and sets up/detonates biotic combos to boot.

Regarding Tactical Cloak, you could start by making Evolution 6's damage bonus additive instead of multiplicative, but IDK if you can do that without a patch. Likewise for making the damage bonuses apply strictly to weapon and melee damage, not powers. Messing with the base duration and Evolution 1 duration bonus could also make that option more attractive compared to the damage bonus everyone takes right now.

The rank 6 bonus is additive, apparently.

[usctrojanbulldog]

QME + QFE = WIN and a lot of tech damage.

[SquirrelWiz]

My concern is that any changes will make TC so narrow in implementation that it breaks the class. As it stands right now, TC works well with pretty much any playstyle; its long enough that you can move around, and boost damage to the point where you can be brutally effective for the couple of seconds after you break cloak.

If the damage and duration is split into the two separate trees of TC you'll end up killing off anything that isn't a sniper, as shotgun/pistol infiltrators will no longer have the damage output they need to make use of their new positioning.

[L.ast L.ife]

Air Quotes wrote...

Players are using infiltrators the most not only because of the damage, but because being an Infiltrator means you can stand on your own and not be as dependent on the team to survive or cap objectives. Not many use mics on public games so coordinating is difficult. The lack of text chat doesn't help. Buggy, overpowered, insanely accurate enemies also add to the cause.

It's certainly why I use them and not because I "can't finish a Gold game with any other class."

[ForThessia]

DarkAbsolution wrote...

(sigh) I had a huge long rant about any attempt to nerf TC written out, but ultimately it just comes down to this. Nerfing TC is going to ruin the FUN of the game for a lot of people. BW better be prepared for a significant community backlash if it's nerfed in any major way.

The vocal minority, and it is just a vocal minority, might get their way, but there'll be a whole lot less people playing when the average joe doesn't have a fun class to fall back onto.

Some stats a while back said that Soldier was the most played class overall, but Eric is saying that Infiltrator accounts for 33% of the class usage on Gold. That to me says that the average Gold player has trouble completing Gold without using an Infiltrator, and BW is considering taking the power of that ability away from them.

NOT a good move.

well when they nerfed BEs you diddnt hear me crying and claiming that the game is no fun anymore, you just change your strategy