696 réponses à ce sujet

[whateverman7]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

ITT: Infillies getting mad

Glad the devs are listening to the community and seem to agree that gold should maintain a certain level of challenge and that balance changes including nerfs to character classes are sometimes necessary to achieve that. I also think "nerfers" in general for the most part have been far more constructive and reasonable in their opinion where as the majority of anti nerfers have simply made the argument "Balance dosen't matter iz coop" or "why should i have to play silver? I deserve an overpowered class to get through gold just like to players who have actually put time into the game, no one is forcing you to play with infillies". Some of us are suggesting very small nerfs, but most of the time the opposition doesn't wanna even hear or listen to the argument and simply wants to continue to dominate gold with a class that is clearly favored for the difficulty


I also remember when people scoffed at my assertion that i thought infillies would be by far the most played class on gold. and that the original stat across all difficulties of 19.6% a month ago was not a proper indicator of the current infilly population on gold.

they're not listening to the majority though....the majority of the community is saying leave infiltrators alone...hell, they saying leave the game alone and work on the connection and other bug issues...

the thing people arent realizing is that it's not inflitrators nor a 'balance' issue, it's the community thats the problem....this is the first time i've ever seen a gaming community find a way to make a game 'easier', exploit that way, then complain about that way cause people are doing it....finding ways to make games easier existed before me3, and it will well after me3....but now since some people think that others arent 'worthy' enough to outscore them or make the game easier for themselves (even though that's all that's been promoted), they now are campaigning to mess the game up for everyone....

cause i'll tell you now what'll happen: bw messes with infilitrators, community moves on and finds another class/character that makes the game 'easier'....after ahile, people will start complaining about that class/character till bw does something....it'll be a never ending cycle, which only ruins the gaming experience for the majority...and it'll eventually kill of the game

[.458]

XxX1000Corpses wrote...

Thank god for looking into TC. Now we may actually see some variety of gameplay, or hundreds of people leaving because thats all they play with. Oh well, glad to see something come out of it.

Actually, it'll leave people who once revived the foolish to let them die. Every time you get that sense that you are fighting other players instead of the enemy, there is one more nail in the coffin of this game and game company. Game software is not mere digital subscription or publication, the interaction is more complicated. EA/BW have lost about half their stock value in a short time based on one failure after another, and what they choose to do here will change the number of people they employ and the future of their company...not necessarily all at once, but it is a bit like compounded interest over time. If they nerf TC, then maybe they will give the reload time a buff on those slow ass weapons that otherwise would get you killed. Or give the ability to carry a close in weapon of some kill power (not the crap ones) that doesn't weigh a ton combined with those slow ass sniper weapons. Better yet, they could update maps and scenarios to make it more enjoyable for everyone...the real problem is not that one class is too powerful, the problem is the maps do not flex everyone's purpose. Variety of game play has almost NOTHING to do with TC, although it is a nice scapegoat.

Modifié par .458, 22 juin 2012 - 08:26 .

[darkpassenger2342]

"they're not listening to the majority though....the majority of the community is saying leave infiltrators alone..."
duh, thats because everyone is playing the infiltrator for its huge advantages.

[darkpassenger2342]

lets review:
huge damage advantage
invisibility
ability to dump aggro on teammates at any time, then act like some kind of hero by raising them
fire abilities cloaked if choose to do so
negate shield gate and get a double dmg multiplier on a 3 shot super zoom incendiary rocket launcher with aoe spread
geth can debuff enemies ( prx mine +20%dmg)  and multiply the already ridiculous dmg boost, then stack on it AGAIN with HM
hide on one side of the map and nothing will ever come for you
double dmg boost to arc grenades somehow, making all other grenades somewhat inferior
a set cooldown speed, allowing the 2 heaviest gns in the game ( javelin and claymore) to bo carried and used simultaneously with No penalty

and you guys keep saying " its not the job, its the community!"
WAKE UP

Modifié par darkpassenger2342, 22 juin 2012 - 08:30 .

[whateverman7]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

It's clear that there is more going on than player preference for sniper classes, since Infiltrators are being used 20.43% of the time on Silver, and 15.18% of the time on Bronze.

people use it cause it makes the game less hard and it allows players to play the mp like a competitive mp or like sp....which is cool if that's what they wanna do....but that doesnt mean devs should mess with the class to try to force people to use other classes....it's the players choice to use whatever class they want...

by the way, i'm not an infiltrator player like that....i use them all and i've been one saying that no class is better then another because all the classes have pros/cons.....

[darkpassenger2342]

you are wrong though, and apparently in denial. any infiltrator is massively better than the 30 other characters.

Modifié par darkpassenger2342, 22 juin 2012 - 08:33 .

[THESETH256]

Well,why is everyone b*tching about Infiltrator class,and want to nerf it,when other classes should be buffed instead,with slightly less damage multiplication by TC.For example Soldier should have more health/shields(especially human,that has same health/shields as engineer) and better weapon damage,and should carry more,with little cooldown punishment,as he should heavy weapon class,and waiting 18 seconds for Adrenaline Rush with better weapons is not good.

[whateverman7]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

"they're not listening to the majority though....the majority of the community is saying leave infiltrators alone..."
duh, thats because everyone is playing the infiltrator for its huge advantages.

not really....33% isnt the majority...and just cause a lot of the community are sheep and follow what others have said/done to make the game easier, doesnt mean mess with that to force them to use other things....ultimately all that's gonna do is force people to stop playing, period

[darkpassenger2342]

whateverman7 wrote...

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

"they're not listening to the majority though....the majority of the community is saying leave infiltrators alone..."
duh, thats because everyone is playing the infiltrator for its huge advantages.

not really....33% isnt the majority...and just cause a lot of the community are sheep and follow what others have said/done to make the game easier, doesnt mean mess with that to force them to use other things....ultimately all that's gonna do is force people to stop playing, period

i am not sure where you learned your math skills, homey,
 but 33% when it is 1 class out of 6 is an OVERWHELMING MAJORITY

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

whateverman7 wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

ITT: Infillies getting mad

Glad the devs are listening to the community and seem to agree that gold should maintain a certain level of challenge and that balance changes including nerfs to character classes are sometimes necessary to achieve that. I also think "nerfers" in general for the most part have been far more constructive and reasonable in their opinion where as the majority of anti nerfers have simply made the argument "Balance dosen't matter iz coop" or "why should i have to play silver? I deserve an overpowered class to get through gold just like to players who have actually put time into the game, no one is forcing you to play with infillies". Some of us are suggesting very small nerfs, but most of the time the opposition doesn't wanna even hear or listen to the argument and simply wants to continue to dominate gold with a class that is clearly favored for the difficulty


I also remember when people scoffed at my assertion that i thought infillies would be by far the most played class on gold. and that the original stat across all difficulties of 19.6% a month ago was not a proper indicator of the current infilly population on gold.

they're not listening to the majority though....the majority of the community is saying leave infiltrators alone...hell, they saying leave the game alone and work on the connection and other bug issues...

the thing people arent realizing is that it's not inflitrators nor a 'balance' issue, it's the community thats the problem....this is the first time i've ever seen a gaming community find a way to make a game 'easier', exploit that way, then complain about that way cause people are doing it....finding ways to make games easier existed before me3, and it will well after me3....but now since some people think that others arent 'worthy' enough to outscore them or make the game easier for themselves (even though that's all that's been promoted), they now are campaigning to mess the game up for everyone....

cause i'll tell you now what'll happen: bw messes with infilitrators, community moves on and finds another class/character that makes the game 'easier'....after ahile, people will start complaining about that class/character till bw does something....it'll be a never ending cycle, which only ruins the gaming experience for the majority...and it'll eventually kill of the game

Few things

1.You do not know the opinion of the majority, most do not post on the forums or have their opinions known. 

2.The majority is not always right expecially when most of  that majiority is heavily biased due to 33% of them using the class the nerfs are being discussed around. And when the make arguements as poor as most of the antinerfers did it's no suprise that Bioware decided to listen to the forum minority. 

3.Your 2nd paragraph is near non sensical. But your assertion that the nerfers are campaining to mess the game up is a completley flawed  for a variety of reasons like you don't know the nerfs each of us are advocating for, the whole community dosen't play infillies so even if they did ruin the class there are 5 more to choose from , and that you imply that nerfs always ruin a class or gun to which i refer you to the QI,paladin,carnifex, and falcon who have all been nerfed but are widley still considered  some of the best. 

4.Your final parapgraph is using completley flawed logic if the game has a never ending cyclce how is it killed off? 

5. Adressing your idea that everyone will find a new class is also flawed because once again, you don't know the nerfs yet. Infillies could still be at the top post nerf gold population wise and i'm willing to bet you they will be. 

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

THESETH256 wrote...

Well,why is everyone b*tching about Infiltrator class,and want to nerf it,when other classes should be buffed instead,

because we don't want the gold difficulty to become a joke? 

Some classes do need buffs but the majority are fine for gold. 

[whateverman7]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

you are wrong though, and apparently in denial. any infiltrator is massively better than the 30 other characters.

how am i wrong? where is this proof that inflitrators are so much better?.....cause infiltrator is not massively better then the other classes...just like the other classes, it has pros/cons....you can dominate with any class on this game, it's all in how you use it....

the only thing infiltrators do better is allow people to play the mp like a non co-op game, that's it....

[nicethugbert]

So, if tactical cloak did not exist, no one would get revived? Objectives would not be completed? Tactical Cloak skews the game because what is a challenge to other classes is a cake walk to a TC user. What is a good weapon for other classes is an I Win button in the hands of a TC user. The result is that the game gets brutally hard to play with other classes just to give the TC user some challenge. On top of all that, the TC user can use the team as decoys. It's unfair to everyone else to have their game play hijacked into a game of play the decoy.

Also, the bad player/good player argument is lame and irrelevant. Bad players always out number good players. Good players shouldn't need to dump aggro or get a massive damage boost.

[Metal Vile]

whateverman7 wrote...


they're not listening to the majority though....the majority of the community is saying leave infiltrators alone...hell, they saying leave the game alone and work on the connection and other bug issues...

the thing people arent realizing is that it's not inflitrators nor a 'balance' issue, it's the community thats the problem....this is the first time i've ever seen a gaming community find a way to make a game 'easier', exploit that way, then complain about that way cause people are doing it....finding ways to make games easier existed before me3, and it will well after me3....but now since some people think that others arent 'worthy' enough to outscore them or make the game easier for themselves (even though that's all that's been promoted), they now are campaigning to mess the game up for everyone....

cause i'll tell you now what'll happen: bw messes with infilitrators, community moves on and finds another class/character that makes the game 'easier'....after ahile, people will start complaining about that class/character till bw does something....it'll be a never ending cycle, which only ruins the gaming experience for the majority...and it'll eventually kill of the game

First of all, the "majority" people who want Infils left alone, simply ant to have their cake and eat it too.  This is, by and large, bad.  Having an option clearly better than other options discourages choice, which is bad.  And don't give the BS arguement about "Well if you don't like it, choose to not play it".  This isn't about individuals.  This is about examining what the "average player" does when making decisions about which class to play.  When said "average player" hears about and SEES the advantage Infiltrator can give them, they will not only make the decision to play it, they will likely DISCOURAGE other people from playing anything else.

We've see it all the time, though it has become slightly less prevalent of late:  Getting kicked from a Gold match because you weren't an Asari Adept, Salarian Engineer, or an Infiltrator.  Remember those threads, about 2 months ago?  I do.

"But wait" you'll say "Those players will simply move on to the next most powerful class, and then nerfers will whine for THAT class to be nerfed!"  Not necessarily.  When and if the majority of power-monger players move to a new race/class/weapon combination, it will come under scrutiny by the community and the devs.  Automatically assuming people will want it nerfed because it's "the new best thing" is making an unfair assumption.  

It's also entirely possible that the "power mongers" will disperse into a variety of classes, eliminating the "flavor of the month" issue, as it's often called in MMOs.

If the new High-Water-Mark of power rests within reach of multiple class/weapon/style combinations, that's a sign of good balance.  If it falls into a narrow profile of "Vorchas with Reegars and AP ammo", then perhaps those classes or weapons also deserve some scrutiny.  It's a weeding-out of inequalities; the purpose isn't to make you or your favorite class suffer.  

Unless it's only your favorite class because it's the "best" class.  Then you're a power-monger, and you should be ashamed of yourself (imo).

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

whateverman7 wrote...

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

you are wrong though, and apparently in denial. any infiltrator is massively better than the 30 other characters.

how am i wrong? where is this proof that inflitrators are so much better?.....cause infiltrator is not massively better then the other classes...just like the other classes, it has pros/cons....you can dominate with any class on this game, it's all in how you use it....

the only thing infiltrators do better is allow people to play the mp like a non co-op game, that's it....

Infillies are currently the predominantly used class for speed runs and a group of 4 infillies currently hold the record for the fastest speed run on gold, they are also the predominantly used class on gold. There's another

That's two pieces of evidence towards infillies being ahead of the others

[Hoz_Hun]

I still think the Krysae need nerf. I have no problem with Tactical Cloak. I'm sad they focus on something like TC rather than a gun witch should not in the game at all.

[Oggy666]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

This week's balance changes are now live and can be found here.

As a heads up to the community, we are reviewing Tactical Cloak for next week's balance changes. Our data shows that an overly large percentage of players are still using Infiltrators on Gold (33.6%). As always, we appreciate constructive feedback on this topic.

If you meant that TC will finally work and not randomly decloak me or make me primary target for enemies, then OK.
More likely some nerfing in it...then I will start shooting the nerf requesters in the head!

What if AAs were 33% played? Then remove biotic combos???

[Siliboy]

The "supposed majority" of the players that don't want TC to be nerfed, clearly doesn't see TC is just overpowered. Of course you love class, I do too. But I don't want to see majority of lobbies full (or at least half) of Infiltrators.

You don't want TC nerfed? Then you're just biased (intentionally or not). Aggro dump and bonus damage for 2.5 secs at least every 3 secs? Yeah, think about it.

[joker_jack]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

you are wrong though, and apparently in denial. any infiltrator is massively better than the 30 other characters.

You've forgotten about the person behind the class. I guarentee you a good player behind a geth engineer will ourscore an infiltrator anyday. Same with an AA, Batarian, vorcha. Your strawman argument holds no water. You are part of the problem killing the community and the game.

[Hoz_Hun]

And I really welcome the Turret buff. I like QFE before that and now more.

[whateverman7]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

i am not sure where you learned your math skills, homey,
 but 33% when it is 1 class out of 6 is an OVERWHELMING MAJORITY

i can ask you the same thing cause 33% isnt majority, it's 1/3....50.1% or more is majority where i'm from

[Oggy666]

Hoz_Hun wrote...

I still think the Krysae need nerf. I have no problem with Tactical Cloak. I'm sad they focus on something like TC rather than a gun witch should not in the game at all.

Krysae is good now...on the other side, it should be UR by the time of release (or even a promotion gun).
Many times I outscored Krysae or at least wasn't much behind with a Valiant II.

[Voorhees88]

dont nerf it! A lot of people use it to play a big support role (revives,objectives) Just remember every class has its ups and downs.. if you do decide to nerf it, you may as well take away the stasis bubble on Asaris, take away the vanguards biotic charge, take away the sentinels tech armor, take away all classes with nads, take away the engineers turret that just got buffed as well as the combat drone. Just make the game completely uplayable. Idk why kids get on here and whine about "OP" weapons or what they think is OP characters. It's a non PVP game! why nerf anything at all? If people dont want to play with people that have TC then they can back out and go lose on their own. When I see people get in a gold lobby with a lvl I Avenger I simply back out... If anything make it where garbage players cant get into a gold game and ruin skilled players fun.

[darkpassenger2342]

joker_jack wrote...

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

you are wrong though, and apparently in denial. any infiltrator is massively better than the 30 other characters.

You've forgotten about the person behind the class. I guarentee you a good player behind a geth engineer will ourscore an infiltrator anyday. Same with an AA, Batarian, vorcha. Your strawman argument holds no water. You are part of the problem killing the community and the game.

 I am the problem with the game, yet you highlight score being the most important factor.
 Winning and having fun are the most important factors. score isnt everything, even if you have a really high n7 or great guns or whatever. You ever play as a triggering biotic?? the opener gets credit for every BE kill. does that make a dedicated player want to go change to Infiltrator, because i take being outscored personal? its laughable.
part of the reason so many people dont want a nerf is because they wont feel as great about selfishly scoring 100k points with the easy button sniper rifle. I havent used inf or the krsyae since i started reading these forums, and i will vote to kick anyone using it, even on gold. does that make me elitist? no, it makes me the opposite. the elitist is the guy who feels he cannot win unless he uses the most powerful class combined with the most powerful weapon, and feels other playes are inferior for not doing so.

Modifié par darkpassenger2342, 22 juin 2012 - 08:51 .

[Hoz_Hun]

And one more thing. What is the % of the Krysae users among that 33.6% infiltrators? Just asking. I think a lots of player useing infiltrator because Krysae work more better with that class.