696 réponses à ce sujet

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

joker_jack wrote...

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

you are wrong though, and apparently in denial. any infiltrator is massively better than the 30 other characters.

You've forgotten about the person behind the class. I guarentee you a good player behind a geth engineer will ourscore an infiltrator anyday. Same with an AA, Batarian, vorcha. Your strawman argument holds no water. You are part of the problem killing the community and the game.

1.Score dosen't matter, and is not an indicator of killing potential

2.Although is arguement is a ****ty statement with no backing evidence it's not a Strawman by anymeans. 


3.Currently teams of 4 infillies hold the top time for gold on most maps. If the geth engineer was a more efficent killer those pro players would have used him by now along with the batarians and vorcha. 

4.How you can even say a gethengineer can have more potential than a GI in anyway other than defensive is mind boggling and ludicrous considering the GIs insane max weapon damage potential. 


5.You are part of the problem of the anti nerf community, you make false accusations and statements that would be found insane by even players with only basic knowledge of game mechanics. 

[Mocchi]

TC isn't overpowered. It does make life simpler though, especially when your in a team full of noobs which is in my experience: 60%-75% of the games I play. More often then not, I have to carry the load or the the games will end up lasting over 30 minutes. Can I solo a gold round, yes. Can I solo a gold match, probably not. But nerf TC and I'll just go back to playing my Asari Adept; the most well rounded class in the game. I score over 140,000 with any class easily on gold and if you nerf TC, it'll just be something else next because frankly, it's not my fault that people feel like **** when I'm playing great.

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

whateverman7 wrote...

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

i am not sure where you learned your math skills, homey,
 but 33% when it is 1 class out of 6 is an OVERWHELMING MAJORITY

i can ask you the same thing cause 33% isnt majority, it's 1/3....50.1% or more is majority where i'm from

He's right it's a pluarlity. Not a majority technically speaking

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

Mocchi wrote...

TC isn't overpowered. It does make life simpler though, especially when your in a team full of noobs which is in my experience: 60%-75% of the games I play. More often then not, I have to carry the load or the the games will end up lasting over 30 minutes. Can I solo a gold round, yes. Can I solo a gold match, probably not. But nerf TC and I'll just go back to playing my Asari Adept; the most well rounded class in the game. I score over 140,000 with any class easily on gold and if you nerf TC, it'll just be something else next because frankly, it's not my fault that people feel like **** when I'm playing great.

lol'd @ AA the most well rounded class in the game. 

[RomanowRomanow]

good job, this time no steps back

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

Voorhees88 wrote...

dont nerf it! A lot of people use it to play a big support role (revives,objectives) Just remember every class has its ups and downs.. if you do decide to nerf it, you may as well take away the stasis bubble on Asaris, take away the vanguards biotic charge, take away the sentinels tech armor, take away all classes with nads, take away the engineers turret that just got buffed as well as the combat drone. Just make the game completely uplayable. Idk why kids get on here and whine about "OP" weapons or what they think is OP characters. It's a non PVP game! why nerf anything at all? If people dont want to play with people that have TC then they can back out and go lose on their own. When I see people get in a gold lobby with a lvl I Avenger I simply back out... If anything make it where garbage players cant get into a gold game and ruin skilled players fun.

Now there's a Strawman....Kinda

If he specifically claimed we wanted to take away Stasis and charge it would be a strawman! 


There are also many other pathetic arguements in this that are hardly worth adressing as they are nothing but drivel produced by those who do not listen. 

[darkpassenger2342]

when 33% of players are picking infiltrator, that leaves 66.6% to the five other classes.
that means more people pick infiltrator than any other class
how is this complicated.
a MAJORITY of people that pick a class choose infiltrator.
not confusing at all.

Modifié par darkpassenger2342, 22 juin 2012 - 08:59 .

[niripas]

There is no problem with TC. Problem is with other clasess/weapons. To survive gold you just need fight with sheer numbers of hitpoints, so DPS is important. That's why 33% (really? I didn't notice that - usually one guy in my team plays inf) plays it. Additional bonuses coming with getting objectives is usually treated as secondary.

[Mocchi]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Mocchi wrote...

TC isn't overpowered. It does make life simpler though, especially when your in a team full of noobs which is in my experience: 60%-75% of the games I play. More often then not, I have to carry the load or the the games will end up lasting over 30 minutes. Can I solo a gold round, yes. Can I solo a gold match, probably not. But nerf TC and I'll just go back to playing my Asari Adept; the most well rounded class in the game. I score over 140,000 with any class easily on gold and if you nerf TC, it'll just be something else next because frankly, it's not my fault that people feel like **** when I'm playing great.

lol'd @ AA the most well rounded class in the game. 

Grab a pc version and I'll gladly play my AA vs your Infiltrator on Gold and I'll whoop you in score, assists, and revives, kills and whatever stats anyday of the week.

[stysiaq]

Great news about reviewing the Tactical Cloak. Make this 33% a 20% - 25%, and I'll be happy.
My signature will still be actual, I suppose.

[darkpassenger2342]

this is the problem with the threads, everyone here is the best ever. how could anyone ever suck when every person that plays the game gets 150k score, does all the objectives, does 50 raises with 50 headshots, and kills every enemy?

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

when 33% of players are picking infiltrator, that leaves 66.6% to the five other classes.
that means more people pick infiltrator than do not.
how is this complicated.
a MAJORITY of people that pick a class choose infiltrator.
not confusing at all.

A majority is defined as "more than half" The majority of players do not play Infillies on gold

It's a Plurality of players that choose the infilly class

[whateverman7]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Few things

1.You do not know the opinion of the majority, most do not post on the forums or have their opinions known. 

2.The majority is not always right expecially when most of  that majiority is heavily biased due to 33% of them using the class the nerfs are being discussed around. And when the make arguements as poor as most of the antinerfers did it's no suprise that Bioware decided to listen to the forum minority. 

3.Your 2nd paragraph is near non sensical. But your assertion that the nerfers are campaining to mess the game up is a completley flawed  for a variety of reasons like you don't know the nerfs each of us are advocating for, the whole community dosen't play infillies so even if they did ruin the class there are 5 more to choose from , and that you imply that nerfs always ruin a class or gun to which i refer you to the QI,paladin,carnifex, and falcon who have all been nerfed but are widley still considered  some of the best. 

4.Your final parapgraph is using completley flawed logic if the game has a never ending cyclce how is it killed off? 

5. Adressing your idea that everyone will find a new class is also flawed because once again, you don't know the nerfs yet. Infillies could still be at the top post nerf gold population wise and i'm willing to bet you they will be. 

1. true, i dont know the majority...i think the majority are too busy playing the game....i'm basing what i said on what i've read on these boards, which i guess is what bw is basing it on too....and on these boards, the majority are saying leave it alone....the ones complaining saying change it  are the minority and the same ones over and over

2. where did yall learn math? 33% isnt majority....anyway, so you'd rather have bw listen to the people complaining about weapns/powers cause others are getting high scores or rahter them listen to the people that's saying leave it alone?

3. 2nd paragraph was easy to follow, what's the problem? yes, they are complaining to mess the game up....it's more so cause of ego then they actually wanna ruin the game...and it's only a select few....i say that cause no one complained like this about infiltrators until the turian sniper rifle got released....when it did and a lot of others were getting high scores, that's when that few starting complaining....just go back and look at the boards, you'll see this.....as for your list, besides the carnifax and paladin, the rest have been deemed not as good as they use to be....

4. it's killed off cause less and less people will play....how is that flawed logic?

5.  true, i dont know what the nerfs will be...what i do know is gaming...and since gaming started, people have always found a way to make a game less hard, in this case, the community thinks it's infiltrators....if after nerfs, people dont think infils make the game less hard anymore, they will find a new class that does...

[darkpassenger2342]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

when 33% of players are picking infiltrator, that leaves 66.6% to the five other classes.
that means more people pick infiltrator than do not.
how is this complicated.
a MAJORITY of people that pick a class choose infiltrator.
not confusing at all.

A majority is defined as "more than half" The majority of players do not play Infillies on gold

It's a Plurality of players that choose the infilly class

funny since the developers have been using the word majority the whole time. i tell you what, you continue to argue definitions, and ill stay on subject.
MORE PLAYERS CHOOSE INFILTRATOR THAN ANY OTHER class.
this is the fact of the matter.

Modifié par darkpassenger2342, 22 juin 2012 - 09:04 .

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

Mocchi wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Mocchi wrote...

TC isn't overpowered. It does make life simpler though, especially when your in a team full of noobs which is in my experience: 60%-75% of the games I play. More often then not, I have to carry the load or the the games will end up lasting over 30 minutes. Can I solo a gold round, yes. Can I solo a gold match, probably not. But nerf TC and I'll just go back to playing my Asari Adept; the most well rounded class in the game. I score over 140,000 with any class easily on gold and if you nerf TC, it'll just be something else next because frankly, it's not my fault that people feel like **** when I'm playing great.

lol'd @ AA the most well rounded class in the game. 

Grab a pc version and I'll gladly play my AA vs your Infiltrator on Gold and I'll whoop you in score, assists, and revives, kills and whatever stats anyday of the week.

Since i don't play an infilly that much or the PC i doubt that you wouldn't whoop me. 

but It dosen't matter how well you play with the class. That's not a real arguement toward it's balance it's 100% subjective. The main advantage of the AA over the DA is stasis which can only be considered overly useful against Cerebrus and is thus not the most well rounded. In all other cases the DA will have more damage dealing potential with reave+cluster grenades. 

[HLake]

Regarding the TC nerf...
Let me use some abstracting and logic:
TC has a 2 second "window" in which to do damage and a 3 second CD, which means that an infiltrator ideally has to do as much damage as his/her allies are doing in 5 seconds.
This means that an infiltrator should have around 150% damage bonus in those 2 seconds, and we all know they have.
However, this is true only if the other team members really have 5 seconds to inflict damage: this is true on bronze, not so true on silver, and basically impossible on gold, where staying out of cover for more than 2 seconds is a deathwish.
In other words, gold is about doing as much burst damage as possible, and the infiltrator is the best class for this.
If BW nerfs TC, let's say from +130% damage to +50%, infiltrators will still be making 50% more damage in those 2 seconds than most of the other squad members, making him or her still the best choice (and infiltrators also have numerous other pros, like reviving allies easily, objective catching and greater mobility).
So what's a possible solution?
Widen the damage window for the other classes on gold by lowering enemy damage output.
This would give other classes the time to stay out of cover for more than 2 seconds (even 1 more second counts), bringing them nearer to the infiltrator's damage output, and making them gold viable.
Of course, enemy resistance could be enhanced to balance their lowered damage.
Just a thoght, thanks for reading (I hope I was clear, english is not my native language).

[Mocchi]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Mocchi wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Mocchi wrote...

TC isn't overpowered. It does make life simpler though, especially when your in a team full of noobs which is in my experience: 60%-75% of the games I play. More often then not, I have to carry the load or the the games will end up lasting over 30 minutes. Can I solo a gold round, yes. Can I solo a gold match, probably not. But nerf TC and I'll just go back to playing my Asari Adept; the most well rounded class in the game. I score over 140,000 with any class easily on gold and if you nerf TC, it'll just be something else next because frankly, it's not my fault that people feel like **** when I'm playing great.

lol'd @ AA the most well rounded class in the game. 

Grab a pc version and I'll gladly play my AA vs your Infiltrator on Gold and I'll whoop you in score, assists, and revives, kills and whatever stats anyday of the week.

Since i don't play an infilly that much or the PC i doubt that you wouldn't whoop me. 

but It dosen't matter how well you play with the class. That's not a real arguement toward it's balance it's 100% subjective. The main advantage of the AA over the DA is stasis which can only be considered overly useful against Cerebrus and is thus not the most well rounded. In all other cases the DA will have more damage dealing potential with reave+cluster grenades. 

Alright, let's play that out.  Your DA vs my AA.

[whateverman7]

Metal Vile wrote...

First of all, the "majority" people who want Infils left alone, simply ant to have their cake and eat it too.  This is, by and large, bad.  Having an option clearly better than other options discourages choice, which is bad.  And don't give the BS arguement about "Well if you don't like it, choose to not play it".  This isn't about individuals.  This is about examining what the "average player" does when making decisions about which class to play.  When said "average player" hears about and SEES the advantage Infiltrator can give them, they will not only make the decision to play it, they will likely DISCOURAGE other people from playing anything else.

We've see it all the time, though it has become slightly less prevalent of late:  Getting kicked from a Gold match because you weren't an Asari Adept, Salarian Engineer, or an Infiltrator.  Remember those threads, about 2 months ago?  I do.

"But wait" you'll say "Those players will simply move on to the next most powerful class, and then nerfers will whine for THAT class to be nerfed!"  Not necessarily.  When and if the majority of power-monger players move to a new race/class/weapon combination, it will come under scrutiny by the community and the devs.  Automatically assuming people will want it nerfed because it's "the new best thing" is making an unfair assumption.  

It's also entirely possible that the "power mongers" will disperse into a variety of classes, eliminating the "flavor of the month" issue, as it's often called in MMOs.

If the new High-Water-Mark of power rests within reach of multiple class/weapon/style combinations, that's a sign of good balance.  If it falls into a narrow profile of "Vorchas with Reegars and AP ammo", then perhaps those classes or weapons also deserve some scrutiny.  It's a weeding-out of inequalities; the purpose isn't to make you or your favorite class suffer.  

Unless it's only your favorite class because it's the "best" class.  Then you're a power-monger, and you should be ashamed of yourself (imo).

first of all let's clarify something: i'm not one of those people...i use all classes...in fact, i use infiltrators the least....now that's out the way:

the reason i dont want them to mess with infils is cause it shouldnt matter...it's player's choice what they wanna play with...if 33% wanna use infils, fine, that's their choice....it's not the devs place nor right to try to dictate to players what to use/play with.....so i dont think bw should nerf a class to get people to try others....

as for people moving on, it'll happen....even though i dont think so, this community is a bunch of sheep and thinks infils are the most powerful...f the changes make that not the case anymore, there will be a new community fav that people use to make the game less hard....that's how gaming goes...

Modifié par whateverman7, 22 juin 2012 - 09:13 .

[whateverman7]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Infillies are currently the predominantly used class for speed runs and a group of 4 infillies currently hold the record for the fastest speed run on gold, they are also the predominantly used class on gold. There's another

That's two pieces of evidence towards infillies being ahead of the others

how is that evidence? i dont play the game for speed runs....i couldnt care less about that bs lol.....only thing that shows is that the people to blame for the community thinking infils are this ultimate class that needs to be nerfed is the community itself...

[darkpassenger2342]

or the facts. but dont let those get in the way.

[Hoz_Hun]

I'm with those who like TC, but... the 33,6% are MAJORITY. There is 6 class (100%). Then 1 class should be 16.666% to be equival. That mean 33.6% in one class is double as it should be. That's mean MAJORITY to me.

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

whateverman7 wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Few things

1.You do not know the opinion of the majority, most do not post on the forums or have their opinions known. 

2.The majority is not always right expecially when most of  that majiority is heavily biased due to 33% of them using the class the nerfs are being discussed around. And when the make arguements as poor as most of the antinerfers did it's no suprise that Bioware decided to listen to the forum minority. 

3.Your 2nd paragraph is near non sensical. But your assertion that the nerfers are campaining to mess the game up is a completley flawed  for a variety of reasons like you don't know the nerfs each of us are advocating for, the whole community dosen't play infillies so even if they did ruin the class there are 5 more to choose from , and that you imply that nerfs always ruin a class or gun to which i refer you to the QI,paladin,carnifex, and falcon who have all been nerfed but are widley still considered  some of the best. 

4.Your final parapgraph is using completley flawed logic if the game has a never ending cyclce how is it killed off? 

5. Adressing your idea that everyone will find a new class is also flawed because once again, you don't know the nerfs yet. Infillies could still be at the top post nerf gold population wise and i'm willing to bet you they will be. 

1. true, i dont know the majority...i think the majority are too busy playing the game....i'm basing what i said on what i've read on these boards, which i guess is what bw is basing it on too....and on these boards, the majority are saying leave it alone....the ones complaining saying change it  are the minority and the same ones over and over

2. where did yall learn math? 33% isnt majority....anyway, so you'd rather have bw listen to the people complaining about weapns/powers cause others are getting high scores or rahter them listen to the people that's saying leave it alone?

3. 2nd paragraph was easy to follow, what's the problem? yes, they are complaining to mess the game up....it's more so cause of ego then they actually wanna ruin the game...and it's only a select few....i say that cause no one complained like this about infiltrators until the turian sniper rifle got released....when it did and a lot of others were getting high scores, that's when that few starting complaining....just go back and look at the boards, you'll see this.....as for your list, besides the carnifax and paladin, the rest have been deemed not as good as they use to be....

4. it's killed off cause less and less people will play....how is that flawed logic?

5.  true, i dont know what the nerfs will be...what i do know is gaming...and since gaming started, people have always found a way to make a game less hard, in this case, the community thinks it's infiltrators....if after nerfs, people dont think infils make the game less hard anymore, they will find a new class that does...

1. If they're too busy playing the game to care about balance then they probaly wouldn't even notice a nerf depending on the severity. 

2.You're right i used majority wrong it's the Plurality which is the relative majority. Also i have already stated in this thread that score does not matter, this is a Strawman. Your claiming i care about score even though i indicated no such thing rather than adress what i'm actually arguing. 

3.Your 2nd pargraph was completley full of grammar errors and I could only decipher a few sentences and segments. I'm far from a grammar **** but it was far too much for me to be able to make out for the most part. 

4.(still referring to your 3.) I've been complaining about infillies since launch. Once again your claiming what you assume to be fact. by wide stretches no less. and although the QI and falcon are not as good as they were, they are still gold viable and infact gold preferable choices. They were over the top prior to the nerfs and now are closer to the other classes/weapons in terms of balance. Despite your idea that all nerfs instantly ruin a class/weapon people still use both of these and they are still considered great options. 

5.(referring to your 4). You claimed it was a never ending cycle. Then said it will kill the game. How can something that dies off have a never ending cycle? It wasn't an arguement towards balance just noted you were using incredibly blatanat flawed logic. 

6(refferring to your 5.).You once again claim to know what you assume. If they find a new class it will still be less powerful than the old one and balance will be more aligned. 

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

Hoz_Hun wrote...

I'm with those who like TC, but... the 33,6% are MAJORITY. There is 6 class (100%). Then 1 class should be 16.666% to be equival. That mean 33.6% in one class is double as it should be. That's mean MAJORITY to me.

It's defined as more than half

it might be the relative majority, but factually is considered a Pluarality. 

[darkpassenger2342]

PERKS TO TC
huge damage advantage
invisibility
ability to dump aggro on teammates at any time, then act like some kind of hero by raising them
fire abilities cloaked if choose to do so
negate shield gate and get a double dmg multiplier on a 3 shot super zoom incendiary rocket launcher with aoe spread
geth can debuff enemies ( prx mine +20%dmg) and multiply the already ridiculous dmg boost, then stack on it AGAIN with HM
hide on one side of the map and nothing will ever come for you
double dmg boost to arc grenades somehow, making all other grenades somewhat inferior
a set cooldown speed, allowing the 2 heaviest gns in the game ( javelin and claymore) to bo carried and used simultaneously with No penalty

yeah, Tactical cloak isnt an advantage at all.

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

Mocchi wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Mocchi wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Mocchi wrote...

TC isn't overpowered. It does make life simpler though, especially when your in a team full of noobs which is in my experience: 60%-75% of the games I play. More often then not, I have to carry the load or the the games will end up lasting over 30 minutes. Can I solo a gold round, yes. Can I solo a gold match, probably not. But nerf TC and I'll just go back to playing my Asari Adept; the most well rounded class in the game. I score over 140,000 with any class easily on gold and if you nerf TC, it'll just be something else next because frankly, it's not my fault that people feel like **** when I'm playing great.

lol'd @ AA the most well rounded class in the game. 

Grab a pc version and I'll gladly play my AA vs your Infiltrator on Gold and I'll whoop you in score, assists, and revives, kills and whatever stats anyday of the week.

Since i don't play an infilly that much or the PC i doubt that you wouldn't whoop me. 

but It dosen't matter how well you play with the class. That's not a real arguement toward it's balance it's 100% subjective. The main advantage of the AA over the DA is stasis which can only be considered overly useful against Cerebrus and is thus not the most well rounded. In all other cases the DA will have more damage dealing potential with reave+cluster grenades. 

Alright, let's play that out.  Your DA vs my AA.

You completley ignored everything i said and went on to assume even more.

It's like talking to a wall running for elected office.