696 réponses à ce sujet

[whateverman7]

Siliboy wrote...

The "supposed majority" of the players that don't want TC to be nerfed, clearly doesn't see TC is just overpowered. Of course you love class, I do too. But I don't want to see majority of lobbies full (or at least half) of Infiltrators.

You don't want TC nerfed? Then you're just biased (intentionally or not). Aggro dump and bonus damage for 2.5 secs at least every 3 secs? Yeah, think about it.

naw, not biased...i use that class the least....as for that overpowered stuff, not true....all classes have pros/cons....and all classes can dominate any given game....

anyway, instead of asking for a nerf of the class cause you dont wanna see it so much, why not ask the community to not be so sheepish? that's why you see a lot of the things you do in the game: the community

[Mocchi]

Again, why do we care what other people play when it's proven that any class is effective in the hands of a good player?

[Nasulprak]

Eric Fagnan wrote...
... Our data shows that an overly large percentage of players are still using Infiltrators on Gold (33.6%)...

I don't know about anybody else, but I feel bad losing Experience, so when I hit level 20, I promote.  I don't play gold very much, but when I do, I use my most effective class, which is an Infiltrator.  So I leave my Infiltrator class alone most of the time, and mess around with the other 5 classes in Bronze and Silver.
If others follow my same patterns, then that would match your data.

[Dokteur Kill]

Eric Fagnan wrote...
As a heads up to the community, we are reviewing Tactical Cloak for next week's balance changes. Our data shows that an overly large percentage of players are still using Infiltrators on Gold (33.6%). As always, we appreciate constructive feedback on this topic.

To be honest, I don't think the problem really is with tactical cloak as such. The problem is that tactical cloak is one of three powers (the others being adrenaline rush and marksman) that make weapons effective in gold.

There really aren't that many options for being effective in gold. You have biotic explosions, and then you have weapons with high burst damage coupled with powers that enhance the same damage. Those are really the main options for doing significant damage on gold. And it's not that those classes are too effective in gold, it's that very few of the other classes are effective at all in gold. 

Sustained fire weapons just aren't practically useable, because few of the classes are survivable enough to use them on gold (and the sustained fire weapons are generally not very good). And high-damage weapons are, naturally enough, most effective on the classes that can enhance their damage. The classes that don't have powers that enhance weapon damage don't have other powers that offset that. Pure damage dealing powers like Incinerate and Carnage don't really deal gold-level damage (and are dodged way too often), and they're too difficult to pull off combos with compared to biotics.

I don't think reducing the effectiveness of TC is going to change the composition of gold lobbies. It's just going to make gold more difficult. Personally, I'd start with improving Incinerate, Carnage and Concussive shot significantly, and increasing the base weight capacity of the non-infiltrator classes. Give the non-infiltrators the option to carry weapons that can actually do some damage. That, or increase the survivability of the more tanky classes that don't have powers that give weapon damage bonuses (such as the Krogan, which really need some love).

Modifié par Dokteur Kill, 22 juin 2012 - 09:25 .

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

whateverman7 wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Infillies are currently the predominantly used class for speed runs and a group of 4 infillies currently hold the record for the fastest speed run on gold, they are also the predominantly used class on gold. There's another

That's two pieces of evidence towards infillies being ahead of the others

how is that evidence? i dont play the game for speed runs....i couldnt care less about that bs lol.....only thing that shows is that the people to blame for the community thinking infils are this ultimate class that needs to be nerfed is the community itself...

From wikipedia 

"
Evidence[/b] in its broadest sense includes everything that is used to determine or demonstrate the truth of an assertion. " 

>Someone asserted infillies were OP
>Infillies are currently ruling the competitive scene
>Infillies are currently the most played class

It may be circumstantial evidence but it's still evidence

[RecoonHoodie]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

This week's balance changes are now live and can be found here.

As a heads up to the community, we are reviewing Tactical Cloak for next week's balance changes. Our data shows that an overly large percentage of players are still using Infiltrators on Gold (33.6%). As always, we appreciate constructive feedback on this topic.

Please dont touch our Tactical Cloak!  The infiltrator is very special utility for reviving, thats is the main reason for everyone using at least 1 infiltrator on gold. As for damage output, just nerf the nuub tube weapon cough.Krysae.cough. some more...

[Necrotron]

As long as infiltrators play essentially the same, and it's just a minor damage nerf like Geth got, I could live with it.

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

Mocchi wrote...

Again, why do we care what other people play when it's proven that any class is effective in the hands of a good player?

Because some are way more effective than others by such a large margin that it turns gold into a joke?

[Dokteur Kill]

Eric Fagnan wrote...
We've generally tried to buff other classes and powers but it's clear that we would have to make signficant additional balance changes to huge numbers of abilities (and the enemies to compensate) in order to match Cloak's power, and that is something we just don't have the manpower for.

You could be bold, try out the balance changes in GodlessPaladin's thread, and let the community test it for you.

To be honest, I think a large-scale rebalancing, even if it isn't perfectly tested beforehand, is still going to be better for the community than continual nibbling at the edges that doesn't adress any of the significant issues.

[whateverman7]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

funny since the developers have been using the word majority the whole time. i tell you what, you continue to argue definitions, and ill stay on subject.
MORE PLAYERS CHOOSE INFILTRATOR THAN ANY OTHER class.
this is the fact of the matter.

the only way we would know that is if they released the info for all classes

[whateverman7]

Mocchi wrote...

Again, why do we care what other people play when it's proven that any class is effective in the hands of a good player?

i agree with this....i just dont like the idea of a dev messing with a character to try to influence players choices, which it seems bw might be thinking about doing

[TheAdventurer29]

Infiltrators are supposed to be invisible primary damage dealers or support the biotic or tech teams. It's job for a medic and objectives is also important. Perhaps nerf the damage while increase the duration of the power. That is a balance change. Remember that infiltrators score high because they deal most damage to enemies. The evidence is there. Please don't take away the utility or sniper rifle damage boost. It is designed for these bonuses. By the way infiltrators are already very powerful in mass effect 2.

[Mocchi]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Mocchi wrote...

Again, why do we care what other people play when it's proven that any class is effective in the hands of a good player?

Because some are way more effective than others by such a large margin that it turns gold into a joke?

Surely it's not because the some of the other classes have a harder learning curve on gold and people are just lazy?

[Atheosis]

whateverman7 wrote...

Mocchi wrote...

Again, why do we care what other people play when it's proven that any class is effective in the hands of a good player?

i agree with this....i just dont like the idea of a dev messing with a character to try to influence players choices, which it seems bw might be thinking about doing

And I don't like playing with 2-3 Infiltrators I find in a significant portion of the random games I join.

[Atheosis]

Mocchi wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Mocchi wrote...

Again, why do we care what other people play when it's proven that any class is effective in the hands of a good player?

Because some are way more effective than others by such a large margin that it turns gold into a joke?

Surely it's not because the some of the other classes have a harder learning curve on gold and people are just lazy?

No it surely is not.  

[whateverman7]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

From wikipedia 

"
Evidence[/b] in its broadest sense includes everything that is used to determine or demonstrate the truth of an assertion. " 

>Someone asserted infillies were OP
>Infillies are currently ruling the competitive scene
>Infillies are currently the most played class

It may be circumstantial evidence but it's still evidence

that evidence just said what i've been saying: the only thing infils are best at is making the mp more like a competitive one then a co-op.....that's why people play it so much...that doesnt mean it's op

[whateverman7]

Atheosis wrote...

And I don't like playing with 2-3 Infiltrators I find in a significant portion of the random games I join.

i've explained why that is, and it's not cause the class is op or the best (there isnt a best)

Modifié par whateverman7, 22 juin 2012 - 09:33 .

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

Mocchi wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Mocchi wrote...

Again, why do we care what other people play when it's proven that any class is effective in the hands of a good player?

Because some are way more effective than others by such a large margin that it turns gold into a joke?

Surely it's not because the some of the other classes have a harder learning curve on gold and people are just lazy?

Surely the elite gold speed run players aren't using Batarians or geth engineers because the learning curve for too hard. 

Surley people haven't factored in learning curve when discussing balance changes and haven't actually run the numbers to see who the highest killing potential classes are. 



Seriously how bout a real arguement? Although i do agree that almost every other class has a higher learning curve than the infilly. It's just too bad few of them have anywhere near the same potential to the infilly. 

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

whateverman7 wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

From wikipedia 

"
Evidence[/b] in its broadest sense includes everything that is used to determine or demonstrate the truth of an assertion. " 

>Someone asserted infillies were OP
>Infillies are currently ruling the competitive scene
>Infillies are currently the most played class

It may be circumstantial evidence but it's still evidence

that evidence just said what i've been saying: the only thing infils are best at is making the mp more like a competitive one then a co-op.....that's why people play it so much...that doesnt mean it's op

I think your tired and need some sleep.

Your arguements are getting progressivley worse and the grammar in all of them is atrocious. I have no bias against someones arguements based on grammar up until the point i can hardly understand their arguement due to it. 

[Dilandau3000]

Some possibilities for TC "nerf":
- Increase base cooldown.
- Decrease damage bonus.
- Use weight-based rather than duration-based cooldown if a power was used under cloak.
- Decrease base duration, which would encourage people to put points into duration so they can stay cloaked for the "activate" objectives.

Note: doing all of the above at once would definitely be too much. Also, the last one would severely decrease the utility of cloak for reviving (since you might not be able to get there in time), disadvantaging everyone.

Probably, just a small damage decrease or cooldown increase would make most people happy.

(Note: I play infiltrator a lot, and I wouldn't mind any balance changes as long as they don't force me to fundamentally alter the way I play)

What we really need is a different scoring system (or get rid of it altogether). Infiltrators are best at killing big things, so they tend to score quite high, so they're perceived as OP. There is only a very loose correlation between  "highest scoring player" and "most useful player" (for certain types of vanguards and infiltrators, I'd argue there's even an inverse correlation).

Modifié par Dilandau3000, 22 juin 2012 - 09:39 .

[nicethugbert]

Dilandau3000 wrote...
(Note: I play infiltrator a lot, and I wouldn't mind any balance changes as long as they don't force me to fundamentally alter the way I play)

Aggro dump from TC fundamentally forces me to alter the way I play.  Turns me into a decoy and I don't enjoy that.

[zerozen00]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Surely the elite gold speed run players aren't using Batarians

Wrong.

/zen

[darkpassenger2342]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

whateverman7 wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

From wikipedia 

"
Evidence[/b] in its broadest sense includes everything that is used to determine or demonstrate the truth of an assertion. " 

>Someone asserted infillies were OP
>Infillies are currently ruling the competitive scene
>Infillies are currently the most played class

It may be circumstantial evidence but it's still evidence

that evidence just said what i've been saying: the only thing infils are best at is making the mp more like a competitive one then a co-op.....that's why people play it so much...that doesnt mean it's op

I think your tired and need some sleep.

Your arguements are getting progressivley worse and the grammar in all of them is atrocious. I have no bias against someones arguements based on grammar up until the point i can hardly understand their arguement due to it. 

you spelled argument incorrectly twice in your rant about another's grammar. ridiculous. follow your own advice, eh?

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

whateverman7 wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

From wikipedia 

"
Evidence[/b] in its broadest sense includes everything that is used to determine or demonstrate the truth of an assertion. " 

>Someone asserted infillies were OP
>Infillies are currently ruling the competitive scene
>Infillies are currently the most played class

It may be circumstantial evidence but it's still evidence

that evidence just said what i've been saying: the only thing infils are best at is making the mp more like a competitive one then a co-op.....that's why people play it so much...that doesnt mean it's op

I think your tired and need some sleep.

Your arguements are getting progressivley worse and the grammar in all of them is atrocious. I have no bias against someones arguements based on grammar up until the point i can hardly understand their arguement due to it. 

you spelled argument incorrectly twice in your rant about another's grammar. ridiculous. follow your own advice, eh?

As i stated i have no bias against poor grammar up until the point where i can not understand the Statement.

You understood what i said, correct? Then i am following my own advice. <_<

[whateverman7]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

I think your tired and need some sleep.

Your arguements are getting progressivley worse and the grammar in all of them is atrocious. I have no bias against someones arguements based on grammar up until the point i can hardly understand their arguement due to it. 

lol if you say so....please show my grammatical errors in the last post(hell, any posts)....they might not be structured correctly cause of the '...', but there are no grammatical errors....

as for the argument: it made perfect sense....i've been saying the only thing infils do best is the class allows players to treat the mp like competitive instead of co-op...you posted a line, and then said the samething i've been saying....so i quoted you and pointed that out...

Modifié par whateverman7, 22 juin 2012 - 09:45 .