696 réponses à ce sujet

[SKhalazza]

SkreeMalicious wrote...

Heres how you solve the overuse of Infiltrators.

Boost enemy health in all modes by 40%
Boost damage output of all class defining abilities (except infiltrators) by 40%
(for example...)

Adrenaline Rush - Damage bonus increased by 40%
Biotic Charge - Damage increased by 40%
Tech Armor - Damage Bonus increased by 40%

Leave TC as is

Huzzah instant balance

And what about the geth engineer that has been hit because of those stupid geth infiltrator krysae wielders... /answer


If you can't play gold with anything else than en infiltrator, that just mean that you don't have gold level skill and that you must stick to silver. TC is overpowered and just make people look better. It's better to tweak a single power than the whole game, it's obvious.

You can beat gold with human soldier while doing something useful to the team. You can even melee with a krogan sentinelle. You don't have to bunker to beat gold and so on... Gold is not that hard if you want to finish it.

[ErrorTagUnknown]

I don't know. I don't see infiltrators as PARTICULARLY overpowered. They are very surviveable if you play them right.... That's why it's possible to solo gold with them. You just keep running and taking pot shots. But they have their limitations. they're a powerful addition to a team --- and a team of infiltrators is effective in and of itself. But there are things they aren't great at -- Holding down positions, handling large mobs - the general heavy lifting. Not to say they can't -- but it's not their specialty. I don't mind infiltrators - i rarely play one because its' just not my thing.

I think the problem is not with infiltrators - its' with people's mentalities. i.e. "The strongest single attack is indisputably the best attack in the game" The best class, allegedly, is the one that can do THE MOST damage with a single shot. Frankly, i think the classes are fairly well balanced. As the infiltrator - it's largely your job to (A) pick up stragglers ( run objectives © revive your teammates (D) put heavy damage on bosses -- AND DON"T COMPLAIN ABOUT IT. it's your damn job. Your team's job is to break up, kill, and scatter mobs - and draw attention away from you. you're going to die less, and score more - but who cares? It's a problem with the scoring system -- and even that's not really a problem (shared credits and XP) .... the problem is infiltrators who want to spend the whole damn game doing A and D, and can't be bothered to do B and C -- but frankly, most infiltrators i've seen are extremely good about B and C too. So i say, leave them as they are -- and give me a good one in every PUG i play.

[Cundu_Ertur]

Crap I did my math wrong:
33% Infiltrator use in Gold translates to one infiltrator in every match, with two infiltrators in every third match. So in one out of three matches there are two infiltrators. Before I was figuring it was one in twelve matches, but it's one in twelve character slots instead, so one in three matches.
So out of three matches with an average distribution, four of the characters will be infiltrators. None will be vanguards. What are the remaining eight characters though?

[Killmoves37]

InfamousResult wrote...

SkreeMalicious wrote...

Heres how you solve the overuse of Infiltrators.

Boost enemy health in all modes by 40%
Boost damage output of all class defining abilities (except infiltrators) by 40%
(for example...)

Adrenaline Rush - Damage bonus increased by 40%
Biotic Charge - Damage increased by 40%
Tech Armor - Damage Bonus increased by 40%

Leave TC as is

Huzzah instant balance

Or just rebalance TC.

Huzzah much more instant balance.

Logic.
Its easier to change 1 power than rebalance the whole game around that power

[JGDD]

Killmoves37 wrote...

InfamousResult wrote...

SkreeMalicious wrote...

Heres how you solve the overuse of Infiltrators.

Boost enemy health in all modes by 40%
Boost damage output of all class defining abilities (except infiltrators) by 40%
(for example...)

Adrenaline Rush - Damage bonus increased by 40%
Biotic Charge - Damage increased by 40%
Tech Armor - Damage Bonus increased by 40%

Leave TC as is

Huzzah instant balance

Or just rebalance TC.

Huzzah much more instant balance.

Logic.
Its easier to change 1 power than rebalance the whole game around that power

Logic? Explain to me how either of the above falls under that heading when some classes are so broken it skews the stats so predictably to the one class that isn't a train wreck.

[Pr0d1gy316]

The main point of tactical cloak is to make the infiltrator the main option for a sniper. I understand balancing but why make it to where every class does the exact same thig? What would be the purpose of making a different character when there is no benefits for one over the other. People who say its overpowered need to stop worrying about the scoreboard . I snipe quite often and constantly get the 20 headshots by the 4 th or 5th round. If you take away the general damage bonus make there be a big headshot bonus to compensate with skill

[Black Phantom]

Pr0d1gy316 wrote...

The main point of tactical cloak is to make the infiltrator the main option for a sniper. I understand balancing but why make it to where every class does the exact same thig? What would be the purpose of making a different character when there is no benefits for one over the other. People who say its overpowered need to stop worrying about the scoreboard . I snipe quite often and constantly get the 20 headshots by the 4 th or 5th round. If you take away the general damage bonus make there be a big headshot bonus to compensate with skill

A headshot bonus won't matter on Gold where the shield gate is 100%.

I already skip the existing headshot bonus because a headshot is usually overkill.

[Pr0d1gy316]

Really depends on what gun you use.

Modifié par Pr0d1gy316, 23 juin 2012 - 09:28 .

[Booshnickins]

Cry babies are thick in this thread. So funny to see people complain about losing their "crutch".

[isdngirl]

I play infiltrator 99% of time - I suck and TC doesn't help me - and when I lag its like I dont have it. I'd rather have the Krysea lessed and I have one (dont use it tho). Those by far are way overpowered.

Maybe in your updates you can add an option instead to mute people who think their music is great or have their mic on so you just hear echos. Oh while your at it, can you add a knifing option and custom map ability (I cant find either option and without them, the rinse repeat options while I wait for my SP game to be finished are getting boring)

[5DVz]

Infiltrator was fun while it lasted...

I'm going to bandwagon nerfing every beloved class and weapon that the nerfers love.

[segeri9]

I haven't tried the FQE on gold yet but I'm definitely loving the patch on the turret for silver. makes for tossing a turret in the right spot and cryo spamming actually quite viable. will try the gold today if people wouldn't kick me for it.)

[nicethugbert]

What really makes me hate Tactical Cloak is the aggro dump. Some of my observations, opinions, and questions in this thread about Tactical Cloak.

It starts off like this:

My first match of the day, I start a Fire Base Giant, Cerberus, Gold match with randoms, we get a team without any infiltrators. I consider this a good thing. Two other guys had mics and they sound like good guys. We wipe on wave 8 or so. No big deal. We can just learn our lesson and start another match. One guy leaves and gets replaced by an infiltrator, without a mic. Start next match, same map and all, it already feels different, easier in some way. Like I can just camp out and let someone else do all the work.

Later on was playing firebase Goddess, Gold, with two infiltrators and another non-infiltrator. I bleed out. The rest of the team is in The Room. An Atlas coming through one entrance, two phantoms coming in through the other. the non-infiltrator is in a perpetual state of stun lock, death, and revive. The two infiltrators are waltzing in between the enemies and team, cloaking in plain sight, dumping aggro on this poor guy who can't do anything but get killed.

Later on, another match on Goddess, Gold, Cerberus, this time only one infiltrator. I bleed out again. The rest of the team is in The Room. Again, Atlas coming through one entrance, two phantoms in the other entrance. The two non-infiltrators are being rockets and stabbed to death non-stop. The infiltrator, again, waltzing in between enemies and team, cloaking in plain sight, dumping aggro.

Later on, I play an infiltrator. My infiltrators are level 19 all from character card spam. I need 2 or 3 matches to get them to 20. I run around the edges of the map, cloaked, putting my Reeger X right up in critter's cranium and melting them in a split second without getting shot. I could have done just as well with a claymore, or a tooth pick.

Go ahead, tell me how much skill there is in using tactical cloak. Tell me how much skill there is in using your team as a bullet sponge. Tell me how much skill there is in shooting unaware targets in the back.

Tactical Cloak = Easy Mode + Unfair to Non--Infiltrators.

[BobWalt]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Razerath wrote...

saxybeast418 wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

T1l wrote...

Barneyk wrote...

Isn't sniper overpowered in most games?

Depends on which game and your definition of 'overpowered'. I'm just curious why Eric mentioned stats on Gold specifically as if it were something out of the norm. I honestly don't think the representation of snipers is out of line with what should be expected of any online shooter.

It's clear that there is more going on than player preference for sniper classes, since Infiltrators are being used 20.43% of the time on Silver, and 15.18% of the time on Bronze.

This is very interesting. If tactical cloak was really the source of the problem, wouldn't the overuse of infiltrators be across all difficulties instead primarily Gold (and to a lesser extent Silver)?

Perhaps I'm misreading the data, but this seems to indicate not that Infiltrators are overperforming, but that the other classes are underperforming.

+1 Eric please reply to this! I'd like to know your opinion on why Infiltrators shine on Gold.

Is it because TCloak can provide ( combined with the right weapons ) the best way to beat Gold and farm some credits?

Well in my opinion Tactical Cloak is hugely popular (especially on Gold) because it gives you massive damage bonuses AND great utility and survivability. We don't have any other power quite like that. It's a great power and we're glad people like it, but it is way more powerful than probably any other power in the game. We've generally tried to buff other classes and powers but it's clear that we would have to make signficant additional balance changes to huge numbers of abilities (and the enemies to compensate) in order to match Cloak's power, and that is something we just don't have the manpower for.

Sorry for the late response but I wanted to think about this a bit.  I think the key would be to increase the base race specific weapon damage rate for Turians, Krogans, Vorcha, and Batarians.  Increase either the 2nd or 3rd evolution (depending on whichever one affects weapons) by about 10%-15%.  Also increase the weapon damage bonus that Adrenline Rush gives by %5 and possibly the damage reduction.  Next decrease the tactical cloak weapon bonus by another 5%-7%.  These changes should make make the classes affected a more attractive choice for damage dealing.  It also has the advantage of working within the existing power system. 

[.458]

Cundu_Ertur wrote...

Crap I did my math wrong:
33% Infiltrator use in Gold translates to one infiltrator in every match, with two infiltrators in every third match. So in one out of three matches there are two infiltrators. Before I was figuring it was one in twelve matches, but it's one in twelve character slots instead, so one in three matches.
So out of three matches with an average distribution, four of the characters will be infiltrators. None will be vanguards. What are the remaining eight characters though?

With 4 players, 25% and 33% are not that far off, nor unreasonable. Considering the number of classes include 5 beyond infiltrator, it is just strong evidence that infiltrator is liked. Has anyone bothered to look at which classes are underrepresented? Seems that with such a small problem (gee, sometimes 2 infiltrators instead of 1, on average), that really someone should be looking at building up how much the least represented class is.

Ok, so who will point out to me the thread that complains about some class not being around enough? Then we will know what needs to become more enjoyable.

[Kasrkin]

.458 wrote...

With 4 players, 25% and 33% are not that far off, nor unreasonable. Considering the number of classes include 5 beyond infiltrator, it is just strong evidence that infiltrator is liked. Has anyone bothered to look at which classes are underrepresented? Seems that with such a small problem (gee, sometimes 2 infiltrators instead of 1, on average), that really someone should be looking at building up how much the least represented class is.

Ok, so who will point out to me the thread that complains about some class not being around enough? Then we will know what needs to become more enjoyable.

Well, hello there hammer, meet the nail.  Well said.

Anyone seen the regular human adept on gold recently?  Or the Turian sentinel?  Not so much, I'd wager.

I'm not a gold guru by any stretch (I'm the guy at the bottom of the board) but the sucessful gold runs I've done have pretty much consisted of at least one infiltrator, an engineer (me), and a couple of asari.

I think the problems with the underutilised classes boil down to poor synergy and "situationalness," whereas an infiltrator with TC is pretty much always useful.

[Nokterne]

Why not nerf infiltrator health? Keep the awesome damage, but make them more glass cannon? Forces more skilled, tactical play, but keeps potential for awesomeness intact.

People are using them because they are fun, please don't do anything to damage that. Sniper damage is the foundation that the class is built around.

You could also try to make bodyshots worse while making headshots better, if you want the class to be more difficult. Only problem with that is the lack of headshots on boss enemies (Atlas, Banshee, Prime). I could live with that.

Modifié par Nokterne, 25 juin 2012 - 05:20 .

[Cundu_Ertur]

nicethugbert wrote...

What really makes me hate Tactical Cloak is the aggro dump. {snip the rest since it's the same it always is.}

Maybe if you say this four times a day instead of three then people will listen to you. Or you could stand on a street corner and yell at random people walking by. Wave your hands a lot. And wear a shirt that's really a sign. It could say "REPENT THE NERF IS NIGH."

That way people would take you seriously.

[MrFuddyDuddy]

Nerfing Infiltartor health doesn't do anything. Especially on gold verus boss enemies like primes as anything with 800 HP/Shields or less will usually die in 3 shots anyway.

[joker_jack]

Cundu_Ertur wrote...

Crap I did my math wrong:
33% Infiltrator use in Gold translates to one infiltrator in every match, with two infiltrators in every third match. So in one out of three matches there are two infiltrators. Before I was figuring it was one in twelve matches, but it's one in twelve character slots instead, so one in three matches.
So out of three matches with an average distribution, four of the characters will be infiltrators. None will be vanguards. What are the remaining eight characters though?

Given that the vanguard is still glitched, there is a good reason you won't see them on gold. As for the TC nerfing, it's not gonna solve anything. The same people who complained about infiltrators and the krysae will find something else they don't like to complain about. Same people who would kick a person for bringing an AA with a diciple rather than a carnifex. It never ends and this is what makes the community smaller than what it is.

[jaydubs67]

5DVz wrote...

Infiltrator was fun while it lasted...

I'm going to bandwagon nerfing every beloved class and weapon that the nerfers love.

Good luck, lol.  I play infiltrator, soldier, engineer, sentinel, adept, and vanguard.  

The weapons I use commonly are the krysae, black widow, widow, hurricane, hornet, carnifex, paladin, gps, graal, valiant, harrier, reegar, saber, paladin, talon, claymore, phalanx, wraith, tempest, revenant, and gpsmg.  

You see, it's pretty hard to "hit someone where it hurts" when they actually use many different classes and weapons.  

[jpraelster93]

infiltrators arent overpowered people who play infiltrators are just better with that class

[.458]

It seems a LOT of the issue is really just on gold. So if you need to nerf something because every 3rd match there are two infiltrators instead of 3, nerf it only on gold.

Or, if using a good mix is really and truly the problem, don't allow more than 1 of each class in any game! If you really think the problem is one class played too much, solve it permanently, see if you can put up with a moratorium on too many of anything. Don't single out infiltrator, put your money where mouth is.

[Poison_Berrie]

Cundu_Ertur wrote...

So out of three matches with an average distribution, four of the characters will be infiltrators. None will be vanguards. What are the remaining eight characters though?

I've seen plenty of Kroguards and Phoenixguards aren't rare either. Drellguards and Asariguards also show up on occasion on Gold. 
I wouldn't say that none will be Vanguards.

[Devilry]

About changing the stats for the Infiltrator because so many use it – please don't. Here's why: The class is fun to play with. 

The reason a third of all players use Infiltrators is not because the class is overpowered, it's because it has an interesting and fun gameplay mechanic. Have you considered that it is used a lot simply because Bioware succeeded well in making it a lot of fun to use? I don't know the rest of the statistics over who uses what, but just as an example, I don't find the Soldier as much fun to play with in the multiplayer. I'm not saying it's underpowered, just a little boring in my opinion. There's nothing wrong with it, and I'm sure others love it and find it perfect for them.

The point is, making it so the classes are used equally doesn't mean maximizing the fun for everyone, and it doesn't mean balancing their usefulness either. People don't only choose class based on how many points they will get with it, but also for how much fun they have with it. Consider that. The result of this is that if you balance the classes so that they are used equally often, it will have to be done by underpowering the classes that the majority thinks is fun so that their lack of usefulness cancels out the fun that is built into the tactics of the class. Because in the total group of Mass Effect 3 players, the classes simply don't appeal to equally large parts of the players.

I'm all for making the classes balanced in effectiveness, but please, Bioware, don't mistake a class being popular for it being overpowered.