696 réponses à ce sujet

[Barneyk]

Gold is supposed to be REALLY hard, lets not forget that.

Infiltrators make it less hard more than any other class.

[T1l]

Eric, before you hammer Tactical Cloak with the Fist of The Gods might you look in to some other third person/first person shooter stats? I don't know where or how you'd pull these stats but from personal experience there is always a HUGE percentage of the public which plays "sniper" classes.

Be it Modern Warfare, Battlefield, Counter Strike, Team Fortress, Max Payne 3, Uncharted 3... in fact, many of the shooters that I've played recently have an abundance of people playing the 'sniper' role.

Regardless of how effective or ineffective Tactical Cloak is; is the representation of people who play Infiltrators out of line with what would generally be expected in a third person shooter?

[BoomDynamite]

Upcoming TC nerf is... Problematic. Otherwise, this week is great.

[Blissey1]

Master Xanthan wrote...

molecularman wrote...

Because buffing EVERYTHING in the game to inf levels would obviously require crazy amounts of work and create further balance problems when all you really have to do is tweak that one power

Wait so if everything were to the infiltrator's level and were equal with the infiltrator, that creates balance problems? 

yeah, they'd have to rebalance all the enemies to make up for how much more powerful all the classes would be.

[Pacifien]

Eric Fagnan wrote...
As a heads up to the community, we are reviewing Tactical Cloak for next week's balance changes. Our data shows that an overly large percentage of players are still using Infiltrators on Gold (33.6%). As always, we appreciate constructive feedback on this topic.

Okay fine, I'll stick to Silver instead of using Tactical Cloak as a crutch for the few times I venture into a Gold PUG and don't want to ****** off unknown people by my incessant need to die.

It probably helped matters that Gold isn't required anymore for the weekend operations now.

[Sable Dove]

Haven't had a chance to play since, but the changes look nice. Can't wait to see if the Viper is worth using now.

Still a bit disappointed that the ARs aren't getting buffed.

[Killahead]

Funny how many now say that they use the infiltrator class because of the objective waves. Guess you'll be fine with some tweaking then, as I can guarantee that the maximum duration of 13 seconds won't be nerfed.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Trakarg wrote...

Magicman10893 wrote...

Hopefully by "look into Tactical Cloak" he means "what can we do to everything else to bring it to Tactical Cloak's level" rather than, "how can we ruin this power?"

What's easier?  Buffing everything, or nerfing one thing?

I think we all know that they mean the latter.

This is spot on. "Just buff everything else!" is... yeah.

HURRAY! My HE got a buff and now I'll have to try me FQE against something other than Reapers on Gold

[Heather Cline]

What's wrong with using an Infiltrator on Gold? That sounds like you don't want people using the class at all on Gold. Seriously Infiltrators provide much needed support with sniping and reviving on Gold as well as completing objectives that require sitting in one place for a certain amount of time.

The tactical cloak is really a necessity on Gold especially during the objectives cause it's hard enough getting through it even with a crack team.

[PossibleCabbage]

x1stad wrote...

Instead of nerfing tactical cloak, why don't we just buff some more weapons or something? The reason people play Infiltrator is because it's a viable class on Gold where the enemies are WAY overpowered - your weapons and armor are like forks and tissue paper while the CPU is throwing tanks at you.

I think almost universally fully automatic ARs and SMGs need a damage buff in MP.  I suspect their damage is set so low to balance out the rank 6 incendiary ammo upgrade "explosive burst" (which is ridiculous as it is on high RoF weapons), but that's not available on multiplayer.

I mean, it's not like we would hurt the game by signfiicantly improving the damage on the revenant and the GPR.

[MartialArtsSurfer]

Feneckus wrote...

Zancloufer wrote...

Also, IDK how tactical cloak is OP.

Are you serious ?

1) 90% damage bonus for a few seconds that applies to both weapons and powers.

2) Extremely short cooldown, regardless of weight. A GI/SI can launch a proximity mine every two or three seconds even if they have a Claymore and a Black Widow. Faster than a Turian Soldier with a Revenant. And their mines will be 90% more powerful. How the hell is that balanced ? Same thing with energy drain. A SI can use it more often than a Salarian Engineer while dealing a lot more damage.

4) Grenades don't break cloak, which makes Arc Grenades ridiculously good.

How is it not OP ? Seriously ?

1) just make TC actually affected by weight, regardless of how long cloak is used

2 & 4) make throwing grenades or any other power deactivate cloak just like firing a shot does. This makes the 'bonus power' evolution at tier 6 actually useful as it was meant to be

3) keep the tier 6 40% sniper bonus to encourage sniper usage & going deep in cloak, the class signature power --other classes have 50%-100% additive damag bonuses on their tier 6 final evolution

What makes cloak so useful is that on Gold, a few hits kill you instantly just running to the next piece of cover or reduce your health to a sliver... just reduce the damage that mobs do on Gold so that you don't need cloak to survive running around, & people do enjoy running around like CoD or Gears or Halo without getting killed

other builds that allow you to run around or get close like shot-gun builds/melee aren't viable on gold unless you hae cloak

Modifié par MartialArtsSurfer, 21 juin 2012 - 11:32 .

[Barneyk]

T1l wrote...

Eric, before you hammer Tactical Cloak with the Fist of The Gods might you look in to some other third person/first person shooter stats? I don't know where or how you'd pull these stats but from personal experience there is always a HUGE percentage of the public which plays "sniper" classes.

Be it Modern Warfare, Battlefield, Counter Strike, Team Fortress, Max Payne 3, Uncharted 3... in fact, many of the shooters that I've played recently have an abundance of people playing the 'sniper' role.

Regardless of how effective or ineffective Tactical Cloak is; is the representation of people who play Infiltrators out of line with what would generally be expected in a third person shooter?

Isn't sniper overpowered in most games?
So I don't see how that is an argument against nerfing TC, to make it seem like any other 3rd person shooter.

Also, they compare the stats from bronze and silver where Infiltrators are not at all as dominant.

[Kuato Livezz]

Could it be that pretty much all the infiltrator classes/races are playable on gold. I'm not surprised if I see a Salarian Infiltrator in one game, then a GI, in another. I may see more than 2-3 infiltrators in a gold match, but they may be different races.

What I rarely see is a squad of 2-3 or all sentinels. If I see a sentinel in Gold, its usually a Turian, but I'll hardly ever see a squad with 2 Human Sentinels and a Batarian Sentinel. Why?

[Jay Leon Hart]

kyles3 wrote...

Bessy067 wrote...

Here's an idea: Don't nerf tac cloak, just buff other things to make other classes more viable...

Like making Krogan and Batarians resistant to stunlock and giving Turians the Marauder roll? 

... go on

[Master Xanthan]

Killahead wrote...

Funny how many now say that they use the infiltrator class because of the objective waves. Guess you'll be fine with some tweaking then, as I can guarantee that the maximum duration of 13 seconds won't be nerfed.

I think there's a good chance they might nerf the duration. They nerfed the sight distance on Hunter Mode. 

[Lee80]

TC is being adjusted because too many people are using it? Honestly I've been looking for a good reason to completely stop playing MP- if TC is nerfed much I'm out. I already don't play much as it is. If it's just a small adjustment maybe it won't suck, but otherwise bye bye MP. This whole adjustments to force people to play a certain way has gotten outrageous.

[JChaos]

CHAw wrote...
I must have missed that discussion.

But I admit, I haven't actually run any formal tests on the power's effect, so I can't say with certainty that you're wrong about it not adding armor reduction or damage vulnerability (depending on the upgrades you choose, it's supposed to do both). I am fairly confident that the slow effect does work correctly however, as I use my Human Infiltrator in a support role on the rare occasions that I deploy him, and the effect on Geth Primes is noticeable when they get staggered.

I do stand corrected that the movement speed debuff does affect armored foes. That said, I don't think Cryo Blast is loved enough to get the kind of wide-scale testing it's going to need to really get the attention it needs.

Still, I think I'll devote some time this weekend to giving it a try. Gotta figure out a good sniper rifle to use to properly gauge damage with and without the cryo blast effect and still being able to cast cryo blast with enough frequency to reliably test it.

[x1stad]

Barneyk wrote...
Also, they compare the stats from bronze and silver where Infiltrators are not at all as dominant.

Because it's harder to have your team get overrun on bronze and silver.  On Geth Gold, the Infiltrator is often the only person keeping everybody in the game.

[T1l]

Barneyk wrote...

Isn't sniper overpowered in most games?

Depends on which game and your definition of 'overpowered'. I'm just curious why Eric mentioned stats on Gold specifically as if it were something out of the norm. I honestly don't think the representation of snipers is out of line with what should be expected of any online shooter.

[Trakarg]

Pacifien wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...
As a heads up to the community, we are reviewing Tactical Cloak for next week's balance changes. Our data shows that an overly large percentage of players are still using Infiltrators on Gold (33.6%). As always, we appreciate constructive feedback on this topic.

Okay fine, I'll stick to Silver instead of using Tactical Cloak as a crutch for the few times I venture into a Gold PUG and don't want to ****** off unknown people by my incessant need to die.

It probably helped matters that Gold isn't required anymore for the weekend operations now.

RED PANDA!

[Heather Cline]

I noticed on a bronze run using a Infiltrator that the mob could see me. Seriously the TC is completely useless if you can bee seen by the enemy. I mean what's the point of it if you can be seen? So yeah the TC was nerfed so badly using the TC is like painting a sign saying here I am. Having it nerfed more is just bad taste.

[PossibleCabbage]

T1l wrote...

Barneyk wrote...

Isn't sniper overpowered in most games?

Depends on which game and your definition of 'overpowered'. I'm just curious why Eric mentioned stats on Gold specifically as if it were something out of the norm. I honestly don't think the representation of snipers is out of line with what should be expected of any online shooter.

I don't know if "Snipers are overrepresented in every other game" is really a good argument for "it's okay that snipers are overrepresented in this game."  I mean, it's not a bad thing that the devs would like every class to be roughly equally used, is it?

If I made a game with 6 classes, I would want each to constitute about 1/6 of the high level player population.  If people really do love to snipe, maybe you need to make non-infiltrators better snipers.

[Soggy-Snake-]

I only agree with making Cloak based on weight or having any power/shot break cloak.

If you start nerfing the duration and damage then eventually you will end up with an inferior soldier.

[Eric Fagnan]

T1l wrote...

Barneyk wrote...

Isn't sniper overpowered in most games?

Depends on which game and your definition of 'overpowered'. I'm just curious why Eric mentioned stats on Gold specifically as if it were something out of the norm. I honestly don't think the representation of snipers is out of line with what should be expected of any online shooter.

It's clear that there is more going on than player preference for sniper classes, since Infiltrators are being used 20.43% of the time on Silver, and 15.18% of the time on Bronze.

[saxybeast418]

Magicman10893 wrote...

Well, since they said like a third of all gold matches are FBWGG, a third of all players on Gold being Infiltrators makes tons of sense. I'm surprised they haven't said something about looking into Decoy since there are so many Salarian Engineers on Gold, then.

You know, you bring up another good point: Firebase White is going to screw with the statistics tremendously.

I won't lie, Infiltrator has probably been dominant regardless of map. But I would be very interested in seeing the percentage of infiltrators in gold matches on any map besides Firebase White.

Frankly, now I'm a little nervous. The geth have been buffed to a ridiculous degree; I suspect that this is almost entirely in response to FBWGG farming. The issue isn't that the Geth were ever overly weak, but that they were at a natural disadvantage on Firebase White, an advantage that translates to a much more winnable Gold match.

On other maps however? Fighting the Geth can be painful and tedious, as they have made it difficult to do damage or interrupt their attacks, while they can stunlock you into oblivion. All in response to one map.

And you know what? One spawn point behind the "farming room" and suddenly FBWGG stops being easy. No more nigh-perfect cover, no more shooting gallery. A little slice of Firebase Glacier.

All I'm saying is that it is unwise to fixate on making things "stronger" or "weaker" just by increasing/decreasing damage, rates, etc. etc. Please, look at Firebase White. You don't have to "nerf" it, or change the map, or even punish players for playing there. Just give the Geth a better way to deal with that one map, either via some AI scripting or just by a simple spawn adjustment.