109 réponses à ce sujet

[ryoldschool]

I sent this PM to Eric Fagnan:

I posted this in that new balance thread.

ryoldschool wrote...

Just a clarification - where did you find the documentation that the sixth evolution of sniper rifle damage on cloak is a multiplier? Maybe its in ths last six pages, if so, please update OP. If you google it all the references are bsn by non-bioware folk.


cricket, cricket, cricket. I have posted the question about where this reverence is in about four threads about tactical cloak, nobody has ever responded......

 

==============================================================================
This was the response he sent me:

The damage bonus on sniper rifles is additive with all other weapon damage bonuses. So if you have a weapon that does 100 damage and you have a weapon damage bonus from your passive power and the sniper rifle bonus from cloak, those 2 bonuses are added together and multiply the base 100 damage. 


Edit: Eric posted at the end of the thread that he made a mistake...... So I changed the title.

Modifié par ryoldschool, 22 juin 2012 - 05:51 .

[Tokenusername]

k.

[nhcre8tv1]

My brain hurts.

[Mozts]

Hum... Strange.

Back to the test board.

[Justinmiles19]

This is the story of an Asari whos mother was a Justicarii.

[GodlessPaladin]

Eh? Then how come my Krysae can one-shot shielded enemies? Where's the extra damage coming from?

[ryoldschool]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Eh? Then how come my Krysae can one-shot shielded enemies? Where's the extra damage coming from?

I don't know.   Eric sent me PMs in request to technical issues in ME2 and he always consulted with the developers before answering, so this is as clear as we can get.   As I mentioned in another thread, only the guy that wrote the code can be sure if the game engine does this.

Modifié par ryoldschool, 22 juin 2012 - 01:19 .

[robarcool]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Eh? Then how come my Krysae can one-shot shielded enemies? Where's the extra damage coming from?

Emm dude, if Eric said that, then unless he changes his statement, you can't argue, for the numbers are with them.

[GodlessPaladin]

I just empirically tested this and my results are not consistent with Eric Fagnan's answer. It would not be possible for me to one-shot a Geth Trooper with a Black Widow 6 with no equipment using a Salarian Infiltrator using Tactical Cloak and no other powers if there was not a multiplier being applied.  And yet I can do it.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 22 juin 2012 - 01:29 .

[Tybo]

Strange...multiplicative is the only way I can explain the in game results: one shots with low level black widow and krysae, kishock one shotting brutes pre patch, etc.

That said, that is as good of a source there is. Something strange is going on here. Perhaps the high caliber barrel works like the melee mods (multiplicative)? Weird.

Modifié par tyhw, 22 juin 2012 - 01:25 .

[landylan]

what? sooo....x=base damage......(x+x*passive bonuses%)1.9

is that basic tac cloak damage then?

help me learn please 

wait....it's just  *2.3.....is that right? i thought this was normal

Modifié par landylan, 22 juin 2012 - 01:28 .

[GodlessPaladin]

robarcool wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Eh? Then how come my Krysae can one-shot shielded enemies? Where's the extra damage coming from?

Emm dude, if Eric said that, then unless he changes his statement, you can't argue, for the numbers are with them.

No, actually, they're not.  An appeal to authority is with them. That's a pretty huge difference from numbers.

A Black Widow 6 does 585.4 damage.  I had 22.5% weapon damage from passive, 25% from high caliber barrel, 90% from cloak, and the 40% sniper rifle damage bonus.  This works out to 277.5% weapon damage bonus according to the formula Fagnan allegedly suggested.  2.775*585.4= 1624.485
A Geth Trooper on Gold has 1856 health.

According to the formula Fagnan suggests, I am doing 1624.5 damage.  How is an attack that deals 1624.5 damage killing an enemy with 1856 health in one shot?

By contrast, if the formula was in fact 585.4 * (1+0.225+0.25+0.9) * (1.4) then the result would be 1946.455... just enough to kill a Geth Trooper in a bodyshot.

I can upload video proof if you like.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 22 juin 2012 - 01:55 .

[robarcool]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

robarcool wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Eh? Then how come my Krysae can one-shot shielded enemies? Where's the extra damage coming from?

Emm dude, if Eric said that, then unless he changes his statement, you can't argue, for the numbers are with them.

No, actually, they're not.  An appeal to authority is with them. There's a pretty huge difference.

A Black Widow 6 does 585.4 damage.  I had 22.5% weapon damage from passive, 25% from high caliber barrel, 90% from cloak, and the 40% sniper rifle damage bonus.  This works out to 277.5% weapon damage bonus according to the formula Fagnan allegedly suggested.  2.775*585.4= 1624.485
A Geth Trooper on Gold has 1856 health.

According to the formula Fagnan suggests, I am doing 1624.5 damage.  How is an attack that deals 1624.5 damage killing an enemy with 1856 health in one shot?

Ok, that seems logical.

[ryoldschool]

landylan wrote...

what? sooo....x=base damage......(x+x*passive bonuses%)1.9

is that basic tac cloak damage then?

help me learn please 

wait....it's just  *2.3.....is that right? i thought this was normal

base damage * ( 1.0 + % from passive + % from tactical cloak + gun rail, etc ) 

[GodlessPaladin]

Chriss5688 wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

I just empirically tested this and my results are not consistent with Eric Fagnan's answer. It would not be possible for me to one-shot a Geth Trooper with a Black Widow 6 with no equipment using a Salarian Engineer using Tactical Cloak and no other powers if there was not a multiplier being applied.  And yet I can do it.

Salarian Engineer and Tactical Cloak? I assume you meant Salarian Infiltrator, yes?

Sorry, yes, I meant to say SALARIAN INFILTRATOR.  My bad.

I can upload video proof of my empirical testing if desired.

[deadpixel92]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Chriss5688 wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

I just empirically tested this and my results are not consistent with Eric Fagnan's answer. It would not be possible for me to one-shot a Geth Trooper with a Black Widow 6 with no equipment using a Salarian Engineer using Tactical Cloak and no other powers if there was not a multiplier being applied.  And yet I can do it.

Salarian Engineer and Tactical Cloak? I assume you meant Salarian Infiltrator, yes?

Sorry, yes, I meant to say SALARIAN INFILTRATOR.  My bad.

I can upload video proof of my empirical testing if desired.

What we need is Eric Fagnan in this thread.  

[ryoldschool]

deadpixel92 wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Chriss5688 wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

I just empirically tested this and my results are not consistent with Eric Fagnan's answer. It would not be possible for me to one-shot a Geth Trooper with a Black Widow 6 with no equipment using a Salarian Engineer using Tactical Cloak and no other powers if there was not a multiplier being applied.  And yet I can do it.

Salarian Engineer and Tactical Cloak? I assume you meant Salarian Infiltrator, yes?

Sorry, yes, I meant to say SALARIAN INFILTRATOR.  My bad.

I can upload video proof of my empirical testing if desired.

What we need is Eric Fagnan in this thread.  

I just PM'ed Eric and asked to post in this thread.  Maybe he will.

[Mozts]

Its strange indeed. But if you think about it, I still don't know wtf that burst variable for the Reegar is, so maybe I don't know this game enough.

[ryoldschool]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Chriss5688 wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

I just empirically tested this and my results are not consistent with Eric Fagnan's answer. It would not be possible for me to one-shot a Geth Trooper with a Black Widow 6 with no equipment using a Salarian Engineer using Tactical Cloak and no other powers if there was not a multiplier being applied.  And yet I can do it.

Salarian Engineer and Tactical Cloak? I assume you meant Salarian Infiltrator, yes?

Sorry, yes, I meant to say SALARIAN INFILTRATOR.  My bad.

I can upload video proof of my empirical testing if desired.

Just a thought - where did you get the info on the health of the Geth trooper in your test, and also the damage per shot of your weapon?    Could it be that these are in error - maybe those sources are not correct ( or if they are from the PC game, maybe not the same as xbox game ).

[deadpixel92]

ryoldschool wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Chriss5688 wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

I just empirically tested this and my results are not consistent with Eric Fagnan's answer. It would not be possible for me to one-shot a Geth Trooper with a Black Widow 6 with no equipment using a Salarian Engineer using Tactical Cloak and no other powers if there was not a multiplier being applied.  And yet I can do it.

Salarian Engineer and Tactical Cloak? I assume you meant Salarian Infiltrator, yes?

Sorry, yes, I meant to say SALARIAN INFILTRATOR.  My bad.

I can upload video proof of my empirical testing if desired.

Just a thought - where did you get the info on the health of the Geth trooper in your test, and also the damage per shot of your weapon?    Could it be that these are in error - maybe those sources are not correct ( or if they are from the PC game, maybe not the same as xbox game ).

docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub

[GodlessPaladin]

Just tested again with Bonus Power instead on a Human Infiltrator (which has a 5% higher passive) and it seemed like I lost a little over a third of my damage... which is exactly what you would expect if you had just lost a 1.4x multiplier.  It looked like about 1400 damage by my eye (since the Geth Trooper had about 3 bars left).  Whcih is exactly what my equation expects.  =\\

Whereas if I had just lost a 40% ADDITIVE bonus I would have lost a lot less (about 17% of my damage).

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 22 juin 2012 - 01:56 .

[ryoldschool]

deadpixel92 wrote...

ryoldschool wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Chriss5688 wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

I just empirically tested this and my results are not consistent with Eric Fagnan's answer. It would not be possible for me to one-shot a Geth Trooper with a Black Widow 6 with no equipment using a Salarian Engineer using Tactical Cloak and no other powers if there was not a multiplier being applied.  And yet I can do it.

Salarian Engineer and Tactical Cloak? I assume you meant Salarian Infiltrator, yes?

Sorry, yes, I meant to say SALARIAN INFILTRATOR.  My bad.

I can upload video proof of my empirical testing if desired.

Just a thought - where did you get the info on the health of the Geth trooper in your test, and also the damage per shot of your weapon?    Could it be that these are in error - maybe those sources are not correct ( or if they are from the PC game, maybe not the same as xbox game ).

docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub

And where is that source?  They can modify the values based on platform ( they said they did that in ME2 ).

[GodlessPaladin]

ryoldschool wrote...

deadpixel92 wrote...

ryoldschool wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Chriss5688 wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

I just empirically tested this and my results are not consistent with Eric Fagnan's answer. It would not be possible for me to one-shot a Geth Trooper with a Black Widow 6 with no equipment using a Salarian Engineer using Tactical Cloak and no other powers if there was not a multiplier being applied.  And yet I can do it.

Salarian Engineer and Tactical Cloak? I assume you meant Salarian Infiltrator, yes?

Sorry, yes, I meant to say SALARIAN INFILTRATOR.  My bad.

I can upload video proof of my empirical testing if desired.

Just a thought - where did you get the info on the health of the Geth trooper in your test, and also the damage per shot of your weapon?    Could it be that these are in error - maybe those sources are not correct ( or if they are from the PC game, maybe not the same as xbox game ).

docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub

And where is that source?  They can modify the values based on platform ( they said they did that in ME2 ).

Even if your outlandish enemy health theory was correct, it would not explain why I am losing what looks like 40% of my damage rather than 17% when I remove rank 6 tactical cloak from the equation.  If it was additive, I would not go from bodying the enemy to them having 3 or 4 bars left.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 22 juin 2012 - 01:58 .

[Mozts]

ryoldschool wrote...

deadpixel92 wrote...

ryoldschool wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Chriss5688 wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

I just empirically tested this and my results are not consistent with Eric Fagnan's answer. It would not be possible for me to one-shot a Geth Trooper with a Black Widow 6 with no equipment using a Salarian Engineer using Tactical Cloak and no other powers if there was not a multiplier being applied.  And yet I can do it.

Salarian Engineer and Tactical Cloak? I assume you meant Salarian Infiltrator, yes?

Sorry, yes, I meant to say SALARIAN INFILTRATOR.  My bad.

I can upload video proof of my empirical testing if desired.

Just a thought - where did you get the info on the health of the Geth trooper in your test, and also the damage per shot of your weapon?    Could it be that these are in error - maybe those sources are not correct ( or if they are from the PC game, maybe not the same as xbox game ).

docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub

And where is that source?  They can modify the values based on platform ( they said they did that in ME2 ).

I believe the source is the game files, plus balance changes corrections.