143 réponses à ce sujet

[Chromie]

Veex wrote...


I'm not sure why TOR gets so much heat from you for copying other themepark MMOs while you herald a game like Guild Wars 2 which is copying Warhammer/DAoC. WvWvW, Dye System, Public Quests, must be a Warhammer clone, right?

Old Republic doesn't get "heat" for copying other MMO's. It does get heat from me because Biowar chose to not embracing anything Star Wars Galaxies did which I would be fine with if Lucas Arts didn't force SWG to shut down.
Besides I was looking forward to TOR for a long time with every passing month I played the more I started to hate it. I want Bioware ot make this a good game but it doesn't look like they are even trying. It's more of the same each patch is just more raids, more dungeons more pvp what about more sandbox like elements? Player housing all that.

I have no problem with an MMO taking the good parts of other games and adding it Blizzard does this with WoW. Dungeon finder, apperance tab or whatever they call it, heroic dungeons etc.

Really the adaptive armor only works with social armor not anything you find. A dye system allows for more customization so I don't see why anyone would have a problem with that. An apperance tab + dyes would be a great way to make a lot of people and Bioware has been trying to get thier current system working since beta which obviously is taking them a long time.

Modifié par Skelter192, 22 juin 2012 - 04:36 .

[Naughty Bear]

Skelter192 wrote...

Naughty Bear wrote...

I saw a gameplay video of TOR, isn't it not like the combat system in KoTOR? It's just a hack and slash?

No it's like the combat in any other themepark MMO like World of Warcraft.

I have never played World of Warcraft, or any MMO apart from Runescape when i was 10.

Modifié par Naughty Bear, 22 juin 2012 - 04:41 .

[Chromie]

Naughty Bear wrote...

Skelter192 wrote...

Naughty Bear wrote...

I saw a gameplay video of TOR, isn't it not like the combat system in KoTOR? It's just a hack and slash?

No it's like the combat in any other themepark MMO like World of Warcraft.

I have never played World of Warcraft, or any MMO apart from Runescape when i was 10.

Well here you go.

TOR combat

[Elhanan]

Something a little later post-Launch; also the Sith Warrior, but with a few more levels:

[Veex]

Skelter192 wrote...

Old Republic doesn't get "heat" for copying other MMO's. It does get heat from me because Biowar chose to not embracing anything Star Wars Galaxies did which I would be fine with if Lucas Arts didn't force SWG to shut down.
Besides I was looking forward to TOR for a long time with every passing month I played the more I started to hate it. I want Bioware ot make this a good game but it doesn't look like they are even trying. It's more of the same each patch is just more raids, more dungeons more pvp what about more sandbox like elements? Player housing all that.

I agree that some sandbox, non-combat elements would be a good thing for The Old Republic, but I'm not sure why anyone would expect BioWare of all companies to integrate ideas from Galaxies. They're literally the antithesis of sandbox. Maybe they'll break that trend eventually and evolve a bit for TOR but, yeah, its BioWare. Cinematic, story driven, etc...

Skelter192 wrote...

Really the adaptive armor only works with social armor not anything you find. A dye system allows for more customization so I don't see why anyone would have a problem with that. An apperance tab + dyes would be a great way to make a lot of people and Bioware has been trying to get thier current system working since beta which obviously is taking them a long time.

I'm honestly not a huge fan of appearance tabs and dye systems for a couple reasons. The first is just a general dislike of what I feel are awkward and thematically wrong appearances. Bounty Hunters in Inquisitor robes, dyed pink, is not my idea of Star Wars. The problem with any appearance and dye system is that its open to abuse. I personally like that they're at least attempting to keep things relatively in line with their original vision for the era. Having all gear be adaptable wouldn't be ideal for me.

I'm all for customization and some freedom of gearing and appearance, but I think restrictions are important in games that are story focused and have an established lore/theme.

Modifié par Veex, 22 juin 2012 - 07:03 .

[termokanden]

Combat is indeed much like WoW. This can be seen as both good and bad. Personally I think it works quite well.

LotRO is an example of another MMO with the same combat style, but here it was not implemented half as well and felt much less responsive than in both TOR and WoW. I'm not bashing LotRO in general though, as it has advantages as well.

[Chromie]

Veex wrote...

I agree that some sandbox, non-combat elements would be a good thing for The Old Republic, but I'm not sure why anyone would expect BioWare of all companies to integrate ideas from Galaxies. They're literally the antithesis of sandbox. Maybe they'll break that trend eventually and evolve a bit for TOR but, yeah, its BioWare. Cinematic, story driven, etc...

There is no reason a story driven game has to limit itself. Secret World is also story driven and frankly has much better writing compared to the starting worlds in TOR but the writer is same person who wrote Dreamfall. Secret World has 3 faction pvp, tons of customization for abilites and some fun crafting. Now I haven't tried much but so far it's been great.

Bioware however has plans for Guild capital ships and more sandbox style space missions no idea about exploration. It's a step in the right direction but they haven't even said if they started working on it or what they plan to add.

[android654]

I don't know who started the rumor or why people perpetuate it, but Bioware has never cornered the market on story driven games. Their writing has always hinged strongly on stereotypes and old story structures that challenge nor introduce anything innovative. The writing in Bioware's games is a lot like the writing in a Stephen King novel. Yeah it's coherent or the most part, but it is by no means anything that deserves to be heralded.

[Rockworm503]

Wake me up when it goes F2P

[The Jackal]

Here is an article that suggests EA is looking at the "Free to Play" Model sooner rather then later. Free to Play does not mean a company has failed. Look at Guild Wars 2, instead of charging a sub rate per month. They charge you for extra perks in the game. However it may be a little embarrassing since "TOR" had the biggest budget in MMO history and most well known "Star Wars Brand"

http://www.forbes.co...g-free-to-play/

[Elhanan]

android654 wrote...

I don't know who started the rumor or why people perpetuate it, but Bioware has never cornered the market on story driven games. Their writing has always hinged strongly on stereotypes and old story structures that challenge nor introduce anything innovative. The writing in Bioware's games is a lot like the writing in a Stephen King novel. Yeah it's coherent or the most part, but it is by no means anything that deserves to be heralded.

Nevet thought they cornered it; simply got it right far more than most, and deserve all the accolades received.

[Veex]

TOR has as much innovation in it as GW2 does.

[Chromie]

Veex wrote...

TOR has as much innovation in it as GW2 does.

You could try listing something. Guild Wars 2 does away with the trinity which is enough to warrant a purchase from me.

[termokanden]

I feel TOR has innovation in the companion quest and personal quest part. Each class has a rather large quest line and I can't say I have seen this type of thing (at least not to this degree) in an MMO before. In a sense such quests are nothing new, it's just nice to see them in an MMO and in this one I actually cared to read the quest text. Typically I wouldn't in most MMOs because I just got sick of them trying to explain stupid quests where you have to go hunting for 10 snouts and 20 horns.

In most other aspects, it pretty much just derives from WoW. This isn't necessarily a bad thing if it works.

Personally I am not excited about Guild Wars 2 in the slightest after trying the first. It just bored me to tears. Doing away with the trinity is interesting though, I'll give it that.

Modifié par termokanden, 22 juin 2012 - 09:54 .

[Ninja Stan]

Rockworm503, Elhanan, get a room or agree to disagree and disengage. It's obvious you two have opposing views on the game and won't change each other's mind. So stop with the petty bickering before you both get into trouble.

[Chromie]

Well legacy perk update. It's to bad they can't really add content for max level character that isn't just pvp and pve content.

[Morroian]

Veex wrote...

I'm honestly not a huge fan of appearance tabs and dye systems for a couple reasons. The first is just a general dislike of what I feel are awkward and thematically wrong appearances. Bounty Hunters in Inquisitor robes, dyed pink, is not my idea of Star Wars. The problem with any appearance and dye system is that its open to abuse. I personally like that they're at least attempting to keep things relatively in line with their original vision for the era. .

Ship........sailed, I see quite a few Jedi and Sith in slave girl or dancer type outfits in PVP and even more jedi and sith companions in the outfits.

I would love a dye system primarily because 99% of the Jedi robes suck. The worst being the War Hero pvp outfits which even a dye system wouldn't fix, the consular outfits look like roman togas. 

Modifié par Morroian, 22 juin 2012 - 11:38 .

[Morroian]

Just announced patch 1.3 coming next Tuesday.

[Elhanan]

Morroian wrote...

Just announced patch 1.3 coming next Tuesday.

Woot! That shall be a sweet and lengthy update! Thanks for the notice!

[KDD-0063]

Warhammer was a failed PvP MMO and the players specifically listed the reasons why it failed.
1) It is a two faction game that has world PvP features that matters, which is bound to fail because server imbalance, once started, cannot be stopped and will just snowball from there and destroy the server. Whereas a 3 faction system like GW2's WvWvW or DAoC can balance itself, not to mention GW2 has a rating system.
2) Extreme class imbalance for quite a long period of time in which bright wizard destroys everything.
3) Gear progression, which strongly conflicts with a PvP focused MMO, is the prime indicator of the outcome of a PvP encounter.

GW2 is clearly not going to have 1) and 3) issues from the available information. For problem 2), very few other big title MMOs have such glaring class balance problems. I don't think GW2 is going to be that revolutionary, but it will be a solid, PvP focused, horizontal progression MMO added to the market.

Which is quite smart. As of SWTOR, I wouldn't say copying from WoW is right or wrong, but I do think it is a huge missed opportunity. So many people who are tired of WoW's endless gear progression came here, are disappointed to see the same thing and left.

I think it could have been a lot better if EA and Bioware were willing to take some risks, for example, at least add some sandbox elements.

[Veex]

Skelter192 wrote...

You could try listing something. Guild Wars 2 does away with the trinity which is enough to warrant a purchase from me.

Multiplayer, multiple choice conversation systems while questing haven't even been done in a BioWare game before, much less an MMO. It works extremely well in my opinion. Huttball is probably the most innovative instanced PvP I've ever seen in the genre as well. Best use of class synergy and a multi-tiered environment that I've encountered. You can kill absolutely no one in that warzone and still win.

As far GW2 doing away with the Trinity, I believe SWG had an open skill system years ago, correct? DCUO also featured an open skill system. The non-trinity idea has been implemented before. The thing with GW2 is that there really isn't a need for a class system because you don't have any content requiring group synergy. When everyone is "self sufficient" you homogenize the experience in my opinion.

KDD-0063 wrote...

It is a two faction game that has world PvP features that matters, which is bound to fail because server imbalance, once started, cannot be stopped and will just snowball from there and destroy the server. Whereas a 3 faction system like GW2's WvWvW or DAoC can balance itself, not to mention GW2 has a rating system.

The WvWvW concept is great on paper, and it worked relatively well in DAoC, but the previous beta events give me a pretty good idea regarding what WvWvW will consist of. Avoid the larger realms and assault undefended keeps ad nausem. World PvP is never balanced no matter how many realms you've got competing. You can't reliably expect any faction/realm to work together or have similar sized active populations etc... and the beta events thus far have only reinforced that.

I don't think GW2 will be a poor game, I just really feel hesitant regarding all of the hype its receiving. I felt the same way regarding TOR and the Secret World as well. People have these huge expectations going in, expect a flawless launch, devour the content, and then move on.

[KDD-0063]

Veex wrote...

The WvWvW concept is great on paper, and it worked relatively well in DAoC, but the previous beta events give me a pretty good idea regarding what WvWvW will consist of. Avoid the larger realms and assault undefended keeps ad nausem. World PvP is never balanced no matter how many realms you've got competing. You can't reliably expect any faction/realm to work together or have similar sized active populations etc... and the beta events thus far have only reinforced that.

I don't think GW2 will be a poor game, I just really feel hesitant regarding all of the hype its receiving. I felt the same way regarding TOR and the Secret World as well. People have these huge expectations going in, expect a flawless launch, devour the content, and then move on.

Point isn't about faction imbalance. The only difference is that in a two faction system, faction imbalance snowballs and that is the issue. This is less likely to happen in a three faction system, and even less likely to happen when there's a rating balance system every week.

Modifié par KDD-0063, 23 juin 2012 - 12:34 .

[Morroian]

Veex wrote...

As far GW2 doing away with the Trinity, I believe SWG had an open skill system years ago, correct? DCUO also featured an open skill system. The non-trinity idea has been implemented before. The thing with GW2 is that there really isn't a need for a class system because you don't have any content requiring group synergy. When everyone is "self sufficient" you homogenize the experience in my opinion.

The WvWvW concept is great on paper, and it worked relatively well in DAoC, but the previous beta events give me a pretty good idea regarding what WvWvW will consist of. Avoid the larger realms and assault undefended keeps ad nausem. World PvP is never balanced no matter how many realms you've got competing. You can't reliably expect any faction/realm to work together or have similar sized active populations etc... and the beta events thus far have only reinforced that.

I can't agree on GW2, there are ways the abilities of different classes will work synergistically, and IMHO the combat will work more tactically in terms of positioning and achievements. As for WvW I really don't think 2 BWE eveents are enough to see what will happen once people realise the complexities of the maps with supply etc. and work on smaller objectives rather than just simply zerg.

[The Jackal]

I think that the story is much more interesting in Star Wars, but it quickly becomes dull and boring once you are level 36 killing the exact same mob you did on your other alt's. The problem is while the main class mission story might be brand new.

On the second, third, and forth play through the side missions are exactly the same with maybe very subtle differences in how they speak to who you are controlling. Guild Wars 2, like in Rift they encourage more grouped instances.

While Star Wars has yet to come out with their group/dungeon finder for six months has really hurt them. People feel spread out. As some said it feels like a solo RPG expect without the fun. I will play once Star Wars has 1.3 unlocked. There is no point in playing while it lacked all of those features.

As for Guild Wars Vs Star Wars. You cannot compare them as Guild Wars is on another level and Star Wars is easily very easily compared to warcraft in terms of combat/warzone/instance's

[Elhanan]

JasonRocker wrote...

I think that the story is much more interesting in Star Wars, but it quickly becomes dull and boring once you are level 36 killing the exact same mob you did on your other alt's. The problem is while the main class mission story might be brand new.

On the second, third, and forth play through the side missions are exactly the same with maybe very subtle differences in how they speak to who you are controlling. Guild Wars 2, like in Rift they encourage more grouped instances.

While Star Wars has yet to come out with their group/dungeon finder for six months has really hurt them. People feel spread out. As some said it feels like a solo RPG expect without the fun. I will play once Star Wars has 1.3 unlocked. There is no point in playing while it lacked all of those features.

As for Guild Wars Vs Star Wars. You cannot compare them as Guild Wars is on another level and Star Wars is easily very easily compared to warcraft in terms of combat/warzone/instance's

I empathize a bit with those that dislike certain mobs; for me it is the Rakghouls. But in all three different encounters, Taris had differences. For some classes, there are unique encounters (eg; Trooper, Bounty Hunter) that are seen on planets and on other locations (eg; ships, space stations, etc). That was a bit of a surprise having started with a Sith Inquisitor, and having only encountered planet-side Missions, at least as I recall.

Bioware is adding another planet, and I have seen rumors among forumites on the possibility of a third faction. And while I have no need for a Group Finder, many are also looking forward to seeing this next week.

As for GW and GW2; wish them the best of luck. They are not for me; lost interest from the trailers. Those that wish to discuss them are welcome to do so at length on another thread.