72 réponses à ce sujet

[IntoTheDarkness]

Most RPG games with sword fights are expansions of old D&D style turn based system and they not very action-oriented.

I wonder if action genre can be blended into the dull combats of RPG games where two characters basically stand face to face, exchanging hits every 6 second until one of which runs out of HP.

Would DA 4 be able to adopt action oriented fighting system like in Assassin's creed or Star Wars:Jedi Knight series?

It would feel less tactical but the combat will be a lot more fun. The level system can be replaced with feats and direct skills. For example, if you gain xp, you can use talent points for new blade moves or the speed by which your chracters moves/etc.

RPG is my most favourite game genre and Action is my least favorite, but the combat is far better in action games. If I could play DA with Assassin's creed combat system that will be the dream come true to me.


*I want something in which I can one-shot kill the enemy when my attack hits*

Modifié par IntoTheDarkness, 22 juin 2012 - 05:48 .

[wsandista]

Yes there can be action RPGs(see KoA or TES), if you define Action RPG as a game dependant almost entirely on player skill.

DA should just be a party-based Realtime with Pause RPG though. Action combat would not mesh well with the game for me.

[ashwind]

You will notice that action RPG work well only when you control one character - the PC.

DA is NOT a single character game - so no it cant and SHOULD NOT  (Bioware, please dont waste your resources doing that) be an action RPG unless they change the system/setting all together.

DA has a very unique combat system that is often overlooked - You can script your companion's AI. The more "action" you put in the game, the less this tactic system will be used. There are trillions of *action* rpg out there but only DA provides a tactic system. Build on that, that is what makes DA unique for me.

Modifié par ashwind, 22 juin 2012 - 05:45 .

[IntoTheDarkness]

ashwind wrote...

You will notice that action RPG work well only when you control one character - the PC.

DA is NOT a single character game - so no it cant and SHOULD NOT  (Bioware, please dont waste your resources doing that) be an action RPG unless they change the system/setting all together.

DA has a very unique combat system that is often overlooked - You can script your companion's AI. The more "action" you put in the game, the less this tactic system will be used. There are trillions of *action* rpg out there but only DA provides a tactic system. Build on that, that is what makes DA unique for me.

Could you give me the lists of those trillions of action RPGs you've seen?

I posted this because I've never seen any RPG in which I can kill enemy by one accurate sword hit.

Even most hack/slash RPGs are not pure action RPGs as they lack both actions and tactics.

See, even Skyrim forces you to slash a human dozen times with your sword in order to kill them.

Modifié par IntoTheDarkness, 22 juin 2012 - 05:54 .

[wsandista]

IntoTheDarkness wrote...

ashwind wrote...

You will notice that action RPG work well only when you control one character - the PC.

DA is NOT a single character game - so no it cant and SHOULD NOT  (Bioware, please dont waste your resources doing that) be an action RPG unless they change the system/setting all together.

DA has a very unique combat system that is often overlooked - You can script your companion's AI. The more "action" you put in the game, the less this tactic system will be used. There are trillions of *action* rpg out there but only DA provides a tactic system. Build on that, that is what makes DA unique for me.

Could you give me the lists of those trillions of action RPGs I've played?

I posted this because I've never seen any RPG in which I can kill enemy by one accurate sword hit.

Even most hack/slash RPGs are not pure action RPGs as they lack both actions and tactics.

See, even Skyrim forces you to slash a human dozen times with your sword in order to kill them.

Just because you can't one hit kill an enemy, doesn't mean it isn't an action RPG.

KoA is an action RPG because it relies on player skill, rather than character skill.

[ashwind]

IntoTheDarkness wrote...

ashwind wrote...

You will notice that action RPG work well only when you control one character - the PC.

DA is NOT a single character game - so no it cant and SHOULD NOT  (Bioware, please dont waste your resources doing that) be an action RPG unless they change the system/setting all together.

DA has a very unique combat system that is often overlooked - You can script your companion's AI. The more "action" you put in the game, the less this tactic system will be used. There are trillions of *action* rpg out there but only DA provides a tactic system. Build on that, that is what makes DA unique for me.

Could you give me the lists of those trillions of action RPGs I've played?

I posted this because I've never seen any RPG in which I can kill enemy by one accurate sword hit.

Even most hack/slash RPGs are not pure action RPGs as they lack both actions and tactics.

See, even Skyrim forces you to slash a human dozen times with your sword in order to kill them.

Trillions of course is a matter of speech.

Skyrim to me is not an action rpg because I can kill humans and dragons (weakest ones) with a single hit (even on Master) but it as nothing to do with "accuracy" of my swing - I loop forge/enchant my equipment to insanity... and well... I can just stand there and click mindlessly to kill everything.... Player skills has not much effect in TES series - unless you count moving your mouse to face and oponent "player skill".

KoA is a very good "action RPG" - it has a broken forging system that will make you immortal but if you do not use all those insanely broken equipments, it is fun. A Prismere Troll needs to only hit me once and I would be down to 5% health, even if I block it I would lose 30% of my health becuase I gimp my gear BUT unlike TES, I can parry, dodge and guage my attack distance accurately to overcome them. 

Zelda is a very good "action rpg/adventure" game - you have to rely on player skills to combat foes and not simply block attacks with your skull because you have insane equipments.

I am sure there are others as well but I cant recall other games that allow you to customize combat AI for companions like DA does.

[Ponendus]

wsandista wrote...

DA should just be a party-based Realtime with Pause RPG though. Action combat would not mesh well with the game for me.

There are not enough adjectives in the world to describe how much I agree with you.

[IntoTheDarkness]

Thanks guys.

"KoA is an action RPG because it relies on player skill, rather than character skill."

This clarifies what I want. RPG where player skill is more important than character skill + button rotations.


"DA has a very unique combat system that is often overlooked - You
can script your companion's AI. The more "action" you put in the game,
the less this tactic system will be used. "

I too like tactical aspects of DA but I just can't stand having to hit your enemy 100 times with the same routine movement over and over.

Modifié par IntoTheDarkness, 22 juin 2012 - 06:07 .

[Zanallen]

Mass Effect is an action RPG series. Jade Empire was an action RPG. Elder Scrolls, KoA, Witcher...Plenty of games are action RPGs.

[AkiKishi]

IntoTheDarkness wrote...

Thanks guys.

"KoA is an action RPG because it relies on player skill, rather than character skill."

This clarifies what I want. RPG where player skill is more important than character skill + button rotations.


"DA has a very unique combat system that is often overlooked - You
can script your companion's AI. The more "action" you put in the game,
the less this tactic system will be used. "

I too like tactical aspects of DA but I just can't stand having to hit your enemy 100 times with the same routine movement over and over.

Try Dragons Dogma action RPG with full AI party support that learns as you play. They do some fun stuff like grabbing hold of a cyclops leg so you can shoot it in the eye. They also call out helpful stuff,although you have more than likely figured it out before they do. Unless you send them off on pawn quests then they will know stuff that you have not seen yet.
Puts far more emphasis on the AI than DA does, but also gives you a much higher workrate on your character than DA does so it balances out. The AI is for the most part competant to excellent once trained. But they will do VERY stupid things in first encounters until the "learn" which you will either find endearing and realistic, or downright frustrating.

[AkiKishi]

ashwind wrote...

You will notice that action RPG work well only when you control one character - the PC.

DA is NOT a single character game - so no it cant and SHOULD NOT  (Bioware, please dont waste your resources doing that) be an action RPG unless they change the system/setting all together.

DA has a very unique combat system that is often overlooked - You can script your companion's AI. The more "action" you put in the game, the less this tactic system will be used. There are trillions of *action* rpg out there but only DA provides a tactic system. Build on that, that is what makes DA unique for me.

If by unique you mean the same as FFXII then yes.

[MichaelStuart]

I agree with most of what the OP said.
I don't completely agree with the one-hit kill. If one-hit kills are possible they should be difficult to achieve. Of choose the enemy should also be able to one-hit kill you, if you mess up.
Also I rather they get rid of levels completely and make it purely about player skill.

I don't see why you can't have a party based action combat.
Mass Effect lets you pause and gave orders to your squad.
Admittedly the system could use some work, but it is possibly.

[bEVEsthda]

There are action-RPGs. Quite a lot. However, the action is the least interesting element in them (with the possible exeption of KoA) and more of a flaw than an asset.
And I don't really see the point. If you want to play an action game go do so, like Dark Souls. Why ruin the gameplay of RPGs? I really don't understand why Skyrim lacks some V.A.S.T system. Maybe because previous TES haven't had it and also were action games?

[Plaintiff]

Well, what else would you call a game that combines elements of both action games and RPGs?

[ashwind]

BobSmith101 wrote...

ashwind wrote...

You will notice that action RPG work well only when you control one character - the PC.

DA is NOT a single character game - so no it cant and SHOULD NOT  (Bioware, please dont waste your resources doing that) be an action RPG unless they change the system/setting all together.

DA has a very unique combat system that is often overlooked - You can script your companion's AI. The more "action" you put in the game, the less this tactic system will be used. There are trillions of *action* rpg out there but only DA provides a tactic system. Build on that, that is what makes DA unique for me.

If by unique you mean the same as FFXII then yes.

 I never play FFXII after I fell asleep leaving my TV on the whole night playing FFX.

I fail to see how characters standing there exchanging blows would have tactics that works like DA.

[Plaintiff]

ashwind wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

ashwind wrote...

You will notice that action RPG work well only when you control one character - the PC.

DA is NOT a single character game - so no it cant and SHOULD NOT  (Bioware, please dont waste your resources doing that) be an action RPG unless they change the system/setting all together.

DA has a very unique combat system that is often overlooked - You can script your companion's AI. The more "action" you put in the game, the less this tactic system will be used. There are trillions of *action* rpg out there but only DA provides a tactic system. Build on that, that is what makes DA unique for me.

If by unique you mean the same as FFXII then yes.

 I never play FFXII after I fell asleep leaving my TV on the whole night playing FFX.

I fail to see how characters standing there exchanging blows would have tactics that works like DA.

FFXII does not use the same battle system as FFX or any other previous FF game. It occurs in real-time and is not turn-based.

In FFXII, you pre-program your party members with "gambits" that work exactly like the tactics system in Dragon Age. You directly control the team "leader", who can be changed at will. Battles occur in real-time with enemies found roaming the landscape, similar to most MMOs.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 22 juin 2012 - 01:09 .

[Gebert]

Ever played the Mount & Blade games? Some of the best combat ever, with a good blend of character and player skill. 

I am relatively happy with how combat is in DA, though, it is supposed to be a tactical, character skill-driven game.

Modifié par Gebert, 22 juin 2012 - 01:00 .

[AkiKishi]

ashwind wrote...

 I never play FFXII after I fell asleep leaving my TV on the whole night playing FFX.

I fail to see how characters standing there exchanging blows would have tactics that works like DA.

Well FFX was Turn Based not ATB.

FFXII is exactly the same as DA , it's very different from FFX. FF is a franchise NOT a game series. There is no common mechanic between them.

[AstraDrakkar]

I believe its quite possible to make an action RPG. The only problem with it is the amount of time and money at the developers disposal. So the developers usually end up making an action game OR an RPG.

[AkiKishi]

AstraDrakkar wrote...

I believe its quite possible to make an action RPG. The only problem with it is the amount of time and money at the developers disposal. So the developers usually end up making an action game OR an RPG.

It's been done quite a bit, but there is a lot of resistance to it. The Tales series is very action RPG (in the Japanese sense).Because older RPGs were turn based it also drew in people who played strategy games and pnp and those people want the same sort of system.

[AstraDrakkar]

Why is there so much resistance to an action RPG then? I'm curious.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

AstraDrakkar wrote...

Why is there so much resistance to an action RPG then? I'm curious.

It stems from a combination of the facts that Action RPGs have gameplay elements that some people don't like in their RPGs (player/twitch skills over strategy/character skills) and that in the mainstream market, Action RPGs make up the vast majority of RPGs being released.

What are the big RPG hits in recent years?

Diablo 3, Skyrim, Mass Effect 3, The Witcher 2, Deus Ex: Human Revolution, Dragon's Dogma, Dark Souls, Fallout: New Vegas.

They are all Action RPGs.

I think the resistance to Action RPGs here on these forums though has to do with the transition, not the notion of Action RPGs themselves. There is quite a lot of love for Witcher 2 and Skyrim in particular. The problem about it is that there are people here who don't like the idea of Dragon Age becoming "yet another Action RPG like everything else on the market".

To be fair though, the sentiment is expected when the first entry of the series bills itself as a "spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate". Now, whether DA:O is actually a spritual successor or not is debatable, but having Kingdoms of Amalur combat in DA 3 would seem to cross a line.

Then again, I've argued that BioWare ought to ditch the RPG genre altogether because RPG gameplay doesn't seem to be a strong point anymore, so I'm not sure where I stand on this.

Modifié par CrustyBot, 22 juin 2012 - 02:14 .

[Dakota Strider]

AstraDrakkar wrote...

Why is there so much resistance to an action RPG then? I'm curious.

Speaking for myself, I believe that when Bioware attempted to take their fantasy role playing style of game that had been so successful in the BG and NwN series, they severely damaged one of the aspects of the combat system I enjoyed the most.

Of course those earlier games had the AD&D combat and spell mechanics to fall back on, a system that had been tweeked for over 30 years (longer if you count Chainmail and other work that preceded that).  When Bioware no longer had the AD&D/D&D license to fall back on for combat, it had to come up with its own.   Dragon Age Origins was a step away from a much more strategic and tactical style of combat, as it was much harder to direct your party members, and control the field of battle.  However, considering that Bioware had to create a brand new combat system, I thought they did well, and the new graphics and animations compensated for the loss of total control we had in their earlier games.

DA2 then took another giant step even farther away from the classic strategic/tactical combat, that many of us had come to expect from a Bioware Fantasy Role Playing game.  Now, it was impossible to control the battlefield.  Enemies could appear out of nowhere, even in places you had just cleared and secured.  It was impossible to hold checkpoints.  Enemies and characters could move across the battlefield in a ludicrous manner that could only be described as teleporting.  (Against the supposed rules of magic for DA).  And the animation.... In DAO the combat animations looked realistic for the most part, even if they may have been exagerated slightly for the sake of making them look more.."heroic".  But in DA2, the combat animations took on aspects of the worst anime style martial art combat.  The attempt of realism that had always been found in previous Bioware games of the genre was thrown out, for the sake of blatant sensationalism. 

So, if that is what it means to be an action game, I am sorry, but I really do not wish for any part of it.  And if Bioware is determined to go down that path, it will be a pity, because they used to be the very best at making strategic/tactical RPG's.  In an attempt to become a developer of Action RPG's, they will just be another one of many, and no longer stand out from the crowd.

Modifié par Dakota Strider, 22 juin 2012 - 02:23 .

[ashwind]

BobSmith101 wrote...

ashwind wrote...

 I never play FFXII after I fell asleep leaving my TV on the whole night playing FFX.

I fail to see how characters standing there exchanging blows would have tactics that works like DA.

Well FFX was Turn Based not ATB.

FFXII is exactly the same as DA , it's very different from FFX. FF is a franchise NOT a game series. There is no common mechanic between them.

I played FF II all the way up to FF X - I find the 1st 9 share a lot of common... things but still very familiar (although they made changes to the machanics every single game) and decided I had enough of it 

[PsychoBlonde]

IntoTheDarkness wrote...

I wonder if action genre can be blended into the dull combats of RPG games where two characters basically stand face to face, exchanging hits every 6 second until one of which runs out of HP.

Would DA 4 be able to adopt action oriented fighting system like in Assassin's creed or Star Wars:Jedi Knight series?

This is basically impossible to do unless you make the other party members totally autonomous.  It could be done, I grant you, but then you start removing features that some people like because they DO NOT WORK in a game where you don't have any direct control over a large part of your fighting force.  (E.g. Friendly Fire)  It basically becomes an entirely different game, so then you have the question of, why is this in the same franchise with these other games?

So, while it'd be POSSIBLE to make DA an "action RPG", it's probably not advisable.

Now, what they COULD do would be to have one-off games with different styles developed by other teams.  They have, in fact, already done this, it's called "Dragon Age, Legends" and you can play it on Facebook.  Bethesda did this with Redguard and Battlespire.  So, maybe if you ask really nicely they'll have the ME team do one of these before whatever Next Thing THEY are working on.  The core franchise is unlikely to change substantially in this way.