8 réponses à ce sujet

[Ubergrog]

I know bioware won't actually -read- this thread, or if they do, odds are they won't give a damn.

Personally, I don't play infiltrator much these days, right now my favorite class is the Male Quarian Engineer. I used to play GI all the time because of the great risk/reward it provided.

Do you want to know why people play Infiltrators bioware? It's the one class that LACKS game crippling bugs and can actively turn away the huge amounts of unbalanced firepower you have placed into the game!

Lets begin with the enemies.

Right now on gold, a geth turret can kill ANYONE in a single burst fire if their shields are down. Using this as a BASE level of damage, every other mob in the game can do worse. If you currently revive and are anywhere close to any mob, you have just wasted a medigel due to the absurd level of damage or 100% chance of stagger that is forced on your character.  Did I mention that ALL sync-kill enemies are now bugged, kill you twice as fast, and CANNOT BE STUNNED?  All enemies now benefit from the stupid "shield gate" mechanic too, and no one has been able to give a good reason why the enemy gets shield gate and PC's dont.

Lets go class by class now. This is for GOLD, not the lower difficulties

Adepts: Adepts are fine if you have at least one more adept on the team. Fragile does not begin to describe them and the number of problems with powers not taking effect are well documented at this point.  It's certainly not the worst class, but it dies the moment enemy fire comes it's way.  Also, almost every enemy save the Reapers can sit there and hop/dodge every power you throw at them, and two of the most deadly units have power-negating abilities. Welcome to being useless. The Phoenix adept is one of my favorite classes, but only against Cerberus.

Soldiers: Huge targets, questionably useful powers, I suppose the big reason why people don't commonly play this is the lack of "shiny" powers and the feel that this class is mostly a "play if you don't know how to use the more complicated classes".  Some powers are useless (Carnage), some are cool but are put on a platform too slow and clumsy for effective use (ballstic blades), others are OK but since soldiers tend to take heavier weapon loadouts makes them ineffective.  Oh, and super-slow melee attacks look great in a promo video, but are terrible in the actual game. Has anyone explained why a Phantom can ignore a grenade?  Oh, sorry I couldn't help kill the banshee, I was too busy running ALL OVER THE MAP TRYING TO REPLENISH MY GRENADES.

Engineers: All of the problems of the Adepts made worse because several of their powers are bugged.  Cryo blast doesn't work, the most recent boost to combat drone did nothing to aid it's usefulness, and the QFE's turret is still useless because it dies if an enemy sneezes at it.  Currently the best engineer is the Male Quarian because one power ignores cooldown (arc grenades), and the other has no known bugs (Incinerate)

Sentinels: Too many powers, too few points.  Some should not even be there (like the vorcha), all of the issues of Adepts and Engineers combined into a single package. The Krogan is tough as a hand full of rusty nails though.

Vanguards: I am calling you out here, Bioware.  You lied to us on your 1.03 bugfix list.  The vanguard bug is still there, and that's why people don't play them. 

Infiltrator: So, we have a single power that does the following: Forces the enemy to break focus on you, increases damage output, and lets you capture objectives and revive teammates relatively safely.  On top of that, every race option has a killer choice of secondary powers (Proximity mine, Energy drain, sabotage, Hunter Mode, Tactical Scan, hell even incinerate is a great option).  The worst bug inflicting this unit is tactical cloaks forced focus break does not always work. 


So... Why are you planning on nerfing Tactical cloak? The problem is not the power, the problem is very simple... I will try and explain it to you.


YOUR GAME IS BUGGY, YOU REFUSE TO FIX IT, AND YOU MADE THE MISSIONS TOO HARD TO FIGHT WITHOUT AT LEAST ONE INFILTRATOR ON THE TEAM!

If you want people to play other classes, I suggest the following:

1. Fix the vanguard glitch, you lying jerks.
2. Remove Shield gate. It should never have been added in the first place.
3. Make headshots possible on boss-mobs again (permitting other weapons-heavy classes some value again)
4. Fix all of the glitched tech powers.
5. If you're going to have units with power-negating abilities, make sure the powers negated make sense (seriously, frag grenades?)
6. Fix sync kill units. Way to make them even more of a headache by making them stun-proof.
7. Make known weak powers more effective. Carnage is a great example of a useless power.
8. Stop making classes virtually identical to one another (No one has managed to convince me that the Vorcha Soldier and sentinel are different in any functional way)
9. Increase the effeciveness of other classes instead of making the ONE good class weaker.  
10. Increase grenade spawn rate at ammo crates.


Ta-da! ten ways to reduce infiltrator gameplay, and none of them involve hurting the class. 

[Derek Hollan]

Ubergrog wrote...


Fix the vanguard glitch, you lying jerks.
 

Definitely the kind of thing that will get a post noticed...for the wrong reason.

Time for a timeout.

[Derek Hollan]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ubergrog wrote...


Fix the vanguard glitch, you lying jerks.
 

Definitely the kind of thing that will get a post noticed...for the wrong reason.

Time for a timeout.

HOLLAN HELLFIRE

(I just made that up, but feel free to use it, Derek.  You need a special power like Thomas' ABRAM SMASH.)

It has potential. 

[Derek Hollan]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

ProjectGemini07 wrote...

ElectroNeonPanda wrote...
Regarding the OP, Infiltrators aren't required for Gold.  They just trivialise it.

Trivialise might be slighting overstating the case.  I've had many a gold game go south on objective rounds because we didn't have an infiltrator.  As such, it seems to be standard operating procedure in a lot of gold lobbies to have at least one infiltrator.

So, I'd kind of regard 25% of gold players being this class as something of a normal baseline.  Having 33.6% of gold players rolling infiltrator doesn't really seem to me to be "overly large".

I guess my question back to the devs would be, what is the desired percentage of players playing infiltrator on gold?  Is it 1/6, reflecting parity among the classes?

The basic structure of the "cap the 4 objectives" rounds dictates infiltrators will always have more value than others.

It IS overly large.  It means that each of the other classes is used, on average, a measly 13.3%.

You have, effectively, hit the nail on the head here.  Eric never takes balance issues lightly.  This sort of disparity tells us a lot.  It is not just that people like infiltrators.  If this were solely the case, then we should see a similar disparity on Silver and Bronze difficulty.  Alas, this is not the case as Eric points out that infiltrators make up 20.43% on Silver and 15.18% on Bronze.

Cheers!

[Derek Hollan]

justgimmedudedammit wrote...

Derek Hollan wrote...

You have, effectively, hit the nail on the head here.  Eric never takes balance issues lightly.  This sort of disparity tells us a lot.  It is not just that people like infiltrators.  If this were solely the case, then we should see a similar disparity on Silver and Bronze difficulty.  Alas, this is not the case as Eric points out that infiltrators make up 20.43% on Silver and 15.18% on Bronze.

Cheers!

I'd like to see the numbers after any changes and if they still hold steady. You guys have a plan for that if it manifests itself?

There is no doubt we will be monitoring it afterwards.  Such is the nature of balancing.  It will be at Eric's discretion if he posts any figures though.

Modifié par Derek Hollan, 22 juin 2012 - 04:45 .

[Brenon Holmes]

Just as an FYI, since I'm not sure that it's clear... there is a difference between a hotfix and a patch.

Hotfixes can be deployed live and fairly easily (like a lot of the balance tweaks). Patches take a relatively long time to put together and test (especially when you take into account certification).

A lot of things can only be fixed with patches, balance issues are primarily being addressed with hotfixes (because they can be). Hopefully this clarifies things a bit. :happy:

Modifié par Brenon Holmes, 22 juin 2012 - 05:36 .

[Brenon Holmes]

greghorvath wrote...
 Like in the case of 1.03? 

Zing... :happy:

It does appear that there were some problematic elements in that patch yes...  But those should be addressed in the next one. It's unfortunate, but that's basically where we're at. 

Modifié par Brenon Holmes, 22 juin 2012 - 05:44 .

[Derek Hollan]

Please don't read anything further into what is being said.  The single stat Eric brought to our attention only warranted the "why" question.  This only leads to investigation (all parties innocent until proven otherwise, as it were).

This by no stretch of the imagination means we automatically assume the worse and begin brandishing the nerf bats.  The points raised are certainly good points and a great deal of factors are reviewed before any decision is made one way or the other.

A good example would be this thread  that was raised on one single aspect of TC.

Cheers

[Brenon Holmes]

1337haxwtg wrote...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the functional difference is that hotfixes are done server-side, and patches must be applied user-side?

That is why you can apply balance changes every week but must get approval from Microsoft and Sony to apply major game updates. That is why patches come far less often and packed with more changes.

Yep, that's essentially it. :happy: