223 réponses à ce sujet

[Core_Commander]

Ubergrog wrote...

Look you can complain at me for having sharp opinions, or you can admit the fact that Bioware should focus on fixing their game breaking bugs instead of making absurd balance modifications to compensate.

"Sharp opinions", yet something seems dull here...

We can complain, or we can agree with you, OR we can disagree with you (on grounds such as "balancing department and bug-fixing department are likely separate and one doesn't affect the other"). You're not the only one with "opinions".

Modifié par Core_Commander, 22 juin 2012 - 01:41 .

[dysturbed0ne]

I didn't read all the posts, but I agree with the OP. The infiltrator is used most because it is the least broken and has the best combined skill set. I don't think it is over-powered (minus TC affecting more than just bullets and sniper rifles), just well put together. If it must be nerfed, it should be that TC bonus ONLY affects sniper rifle damage and melee kills. Infiltrators just as effective with other weapons seems a bit ridiculous. Then you can buff the other weapons to help out the other classes.

It is simple to use, effective, and you don't have to depend on others who might work with you (rare in PUG's). Not to mention it is nearly a pure shooting class, and when most of your players are coming from FPS's, this is what they are going to gravitate towards, especially when EVERY weapon is better when carried by an infiltrator.

[UserUnknown85]

Infiltrators are hardly bug-free....

Yesterday in one of my games cloak wouldn't come off about half the time. Was carrying a claymore + falcon too. Some pretty nasty cooldowns. Not to mention the graphical bug which shows you cloaked when you ain't and vice-versa.

[Atheosis]

Ubergrog wrote...

YOU MADE THE MISSIONS TOO HARD TO FIGHT WITHOUT AT LEAST ONE INFILTRATOR ON THE TEAM!

For everyone who feels this way, I have but one response:  

YOU SHOULDN'T BE PLAYING GOLD!

Modifié par Atheosis, 22 juin 2012 - 01:49 .

[humes spork]

Thrillskr wrote...

The reason for all that is fairly simple. A lot of people (like myself) play U/U/G with randoms and You can never know if they're gonna pull their weight or not. I played with a couple of americans who got dropped into my gold game (mid game) by accdent and they said they were going for silver. Using infiltrator is a solution, allows for stealth revives and pretty much doing the whole thing solo if need be. This is why a lot of people pick them, not because of 'DPS OMGZ'.

[...]

How many crap infiltrators have You seen ? Honestly, i find on gold 2 classes that attract most terribad players are vanguard and inf. How many VERY good infiltrators are out there ? And dont go 'i get 1 million billion score', think of all other infs You've seen...

You contradict yourself, here. In your first paragraph, you said a "lot" of players select infiltrator for the utility and usefulness. Yet, in your last paragraph you admit infiltrator attracts the horrible players.

No, I'm not calling you out. No, I'm not saying you're wrong. This contradiction is what makes you right.

Infiltrators can be a quite good class when played properly. The problem is that the majority of infiltrators don't. And yes, personally I think that boils down to tactial cloak for a multitude of reasons that in the end boil down to it rewarding selfish play, and in return the team absorbs the associated risk; yes, that can be mitigated -- almost completely -- by an infiltrator being a team player (capping, reviving, watching teammates' backs from afar) but the player is under no obligation to fulfill their end of the bargain. This is a team game -- one player beggaring the team, or making them suffer, runs completely contrary to the notion of cooperative play, and that's precisely what tactical cloak rewards most tactilely.

Infiltrator players claim that if TC is nerfed, the baddies won't go away but instead will migrate to turian and human soldiers. I say, "please, for the love of god do" -- turians have better health and shields, and adrenaline rush grants DR and replenishes shields. If the baddies migrate to soldiers, at least they'll be playing a class that doesn't harm the team by their being bad. I hate to say it, but if you're an infiltrator player who can't see the impact TC has on the team when used poorly, and only think in terms of damage-dealing, you're part of the problem.

Modifié par humes spork, 22 juin 2012 - 01:48 .

[PoetryAvenger]

Ubergrog wrote...

PoetryAvenger wrote...

Ubergrog wrote...

Look you can complain at me for having sharp opinions, or you can admit the fact that Bioware should focus on fixing their game breaking bugs instead of making absurd balance modifications to compensate.

Nice try at a deflection, but I haven't complained about your opinions in any of my posts. Your 'opinion' on shield gating isn't even an opinion, because you're claiming that a documented game mechanic either doesn't work or doesn't exist. If I for some reason started posting on the forums that ammo boxes don't refill your spare ammo because I don't watch my HUD when I'm walking by one, you'd best believe people would correct me on that.

It's not a deflection, it's a request to get back to the point of the thread. Since it's clear you're not interested in that, I suggest you go back to 4chan where thread abduction is not only common, but expected.

Also, you still have yet to show physical evidence that I am wrong.  A dev note stating that PC's have it would be enough. 

It's a facet of your argument in your original post. I also have personally NOT said anything about the credibility of this statement affecting your overall point. If you're so against people discussing pieces of your argument instead of what you want them to discuss, then I wonder why you even entertained this 'thread abduction' instead of immediately letting people know that you didn't appreciate it.

Oh snap, son! You told me to get back to 4chan! Well damn, I suppose that's got me beat; there's absolutely nothing I can say that can possibly erase your baseless mud-slinging from my Internet Permanent Record. Guess I'll just be going!

But before I go, here's a video. You might want to watch this one carefully.

[X_Bacon]

Ubergrog wrote...

Also, you still have yet to show physical evidence that I am wrong.  A dev note stating that PC's have it would be enough. 

Sigh... fine, since you're too stubborn to take our word for it.



See there, at 1:45? A nemesis shot takes down the guy's barrier, health took no damage at all... then at 1:51, with his barrier still at half capacity, another nemesis shot takes it down but again no damage is done to his health.

Is that enough?

Modifié par X_Bacon, 22 juin 2012 - 01:55 .

[GodlessPaladin]

Atheosis wrote...

Ubergrog wrote...

YOU MADE THE MISSIONS TOO HARD TO FIGHT WITHOUT AT LEAST ONE INFILTRATOR ON THE TEAM!

For everyone who feels this way, I have but one response:  

YOU SHOULDN'T BE PLAYING GOLD!

QFT.  If you can't do it without an Infiltrator, I don't think the devs felt Gold was intended for you. 

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 22 juin 2012 - 01:58 .

[The Waffle Cat]

1. Fix the vanguard glitch, you lying jerks.
2. Remove Shield gate. It should never have been added in the first place.
3. Make headshots possible on boss-mobs again (permitting other weapons-heavy classes some value again)
4. Fix all of the glitched tech powers.
6. Fix sync kill units. Way to make them even more of a headache by making them stun-proof
8. Stop making classes virtually identical to one another (No one has managed to convince me that the Vorcha Soldier and sentinel are different in any functional way)
9. Increase the effeciveness of other classes instead of making the ONE good class weaker.  
10. Increase grenade spawn rate at ammo crates.

1. They tried by fixing the netcode, they cant adjust patches every singleday due to the servers.
2. Why dont we let you kill everything in 1 shot, shield gate has been a mechanic now for 3 games its not gonna change because you say so
3. So primes an be 6 shotted by a BW sniper? No
4. None of them are gltiched except for overload tree 6b which isnt that big of a deal. Nice mosquito smacking there thou.
6. Its called staggering and its possible on all boss units, as well with enough burst dps all boss units will drop you
8. Is it your game, are you a developer? No you arent stop crying about free content. Both of the classes are different : vorcha sentinel focusses more on power bonusses where on the soldier you can go full out on weapon damage.
9. All classes are already effective, how hard is it to understand that? Infiltrator just got that slight edge to rule above them
10. No, 8 arc grenades on grenade capacity 5 and the fact that they would decrease the timernon goddes and jade I will be fully stocked all 15 minutes long.

My counters to your statements

-Dave

[MoeRayShep]

Well while I don't fully agree with the spirit of this post, I do agree that:
1. One way or another, Infiltrators have a dramatic advantage over other classes in terms of both survivability and damage output. Whether that makes them OP or everything else UP is a question of your perspective on how difficult the game should be.

2. There are definitely a lot of bugs that still need to be hammered out which are incredibly frustrating and often result in death, esp on higher difficulty levels.

[Kaelthyn117]

Torguemada wrote...

JakobBloch wrote...
"10. Increase grenade spawn rate at ammo crates."

That
is a trade-off. grenades don't trigger cool-down but is instead a
scarce resource. If you can't live with that don't play grenade wielding
classes.

Man, come on, that was the one point he had that actually spot on.
The maps that spawn only one grenade per box are just idiotic and makes multiple grenade users frustrating as hell.

he got that one right, i hate to run arround Firebase Glacier just to get 4 grenades on my Drell Adept, against reapers. Its like im spending half of the match to run from ammo box to ammo box hoping that grenades are there, and if there is another genade user - well im generally ****ed because my main attack against reapers DOESNT SPAWN quickly enough.

You might say that it is balanced out by ammo refilling equipment but NO IT ISNT. I have 255 of those things and i want to use them when i run out of ammo, not grenades, but usually i just end up using 3 or 4 of those things to get grenades when im surrounded by 2 brutes, ravagers shooting at me from any entrance and banshee screaming and charging at me from other side of the map while i sit and think how to get my grenades when i need them and have no ammo pack equipment left to use! Drell cluster grenades are fun and damn effectve against reapers and that being said, runnning arround the map half the time to just have grenades to throw at cluster of enemies is kind of ridicilous.

Modifié par Kaelthyn117, 22 juin 2012 - 02:07 .

[humes spork]

The Waffle Cat wrote...

2. Why dont we let you kill everything in 1 shot, shield gate has been a mechanic now for 3 games its not gonna change because you say so

**** I wish ME1 had shieldgate, otherwise I wouldn't loathe the rogue VI assignment with the burning hatred and fervor of heart of a thousand dying stars.

[KuroFye]

 First of all, half of the things you told will help the infiltrators too, specially the headshot on bosses, please, they are made for that, GI with claymore doing a headshot on a geth prime? how much it will last? 2 shots?
also, here is the answer from bioware 25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_loxze5t3e21qz9wf9o1_400.gif

[MoeRayShep]

humes spork wrote...

The Waffle Cat wrote...

2. Why dont we let you kill everything in 1 shot, shield gate has been a mechanic now for 3 games its not gonna change because you say so

**** I wish ME1 had shieldgate, otherwise I wouldn't loathe the rogue VI assignment with the burning hatred and fervor of heart of a thousand dying stars.

Now you hurt ret-conned EDI's feelings

[PoetryAvenger]

MoeRayShep wrote...

humes spork wrote...

The Waffle Cat wrote...

2. Why dont we let you kill everything in 1 shot, shield gate has been a mechanic now for 3 games its not gonna change because you say so

**** I wish ME1 had shieldgate, otherwise I wouldn't loathe the rogue VI assignment with the burning hatred and fervor of heart of a thousand dying stars.

Now you hurt ret-conned EDI's feelings

I enjoyed EDI in 2, and hers was one of my favorite character developments in 3 (not that there were many to choose from, but that's another point).

That being said, when that revelation came at the Cerberus station, I was tempted to throw her out the airlock.
I had nightmares about rocket drones.

[humes spork]

MoeRayShep wrote...

Now you hurt ret-conned EDI's feelings

Yeah if I were Shepard I'd have airlocked that **** for unleashing the Rocket Drone Krakens on the spot. The only time I've done that got damn assignment without dying at least once was on my level 60 vanguard/shock trooper's insanity run, when she already had predator M X with dual medical exoskeleton X's, a savant X bio-amp, and completely maxed barrier. ...and electronics was her bonus power for good measure, which I had maxed too.

...and even then it was a little hairy, even after using squad commands to send Ash and Wrex into the room with maxed armor, mods, immunity and barrier spam to eat that first wave of rockets.

[Miniditka77]

Ubergrog wrote...

It's hard to notice since when your shields go down, you usually are being mobbed by three other units, so your health vanishes quickly.

Also, if this is true, several units in the game can bypass PC shield gate, like Atlas rockets, phantom hand-thresher maws, and Ravager cannons.

It's actually not hard to notice.  You know when you get hit in the face with the Atlas cannon that is supposed to do something like 2500 damage, and all it does is drop your shields?  That's shield gate.

EDIT:  Try playing with a Drell if you don't believe in shield gating.  Without shield gate, only the absolute best players would be able to do anything with a Drell. 

Modifié par Miniditka77, 22 juin 2012 - 02:23 .

[Core_Commander]

humes spork wrote...

Yeah if I were Shepard I'd have airlocked that **** for unleashing the Rocket Drone Krakens on the spot. The only time I've done that got damn assignment without dying at least once was on my level 60 vanguard/shock trooper's insanity run, when she already had predator M X with dual medical exoskeleton X's, a savant X bio-amp, and completely maxed barrier. ...and electronics was her bonus power for good measure, which I had maxed too.

...and even then it was a little hairy, even after using squad commands to send Ash and Wrex into the room with maxed armor, mods, immunity and barrier spam to eat that first wave of rockets.

And there's the problem - you are informed that the opposition is all robots, and bring two grunts to do the job instead of tech specialists. The presence of screws calls for a screwdriver, not a hammer.

Tali + Garrus, sabotage/overload spam shuts the whole place down like magic!

Modifié par Core_Commander, 22 juin 2012 - 02:21 .

[LeandroBraz]

I agree with bugs complains but I have to say, you sound like a bad player, reason why infiltrators are so popular: It's easy to be good at it.

Plus, you guys are crying before time. You don't know what they will nerf and how much. Maybe it's not that big deal and you will only need to adapt a little.

My aim is not that good, so the best thing for me about the infiltrator is their survability, which will be hard to nerf, unless they discharacterize completely the tactical cloak. If they take some damage out, we got gears some weeks ago that buff it, so won't change that much. If they take out time you are cloaked, it will only require that you pay more attention doing device missions and reviving people, since you will need to be faster.

Whatever they do, I doubt will be that bad, like your crying is sounding that it will be, you guys can adapt. Speaking of adapting, The nerf range on the biotic explosions was a hell of a nerf, I don't remember to see all this crying, and guess what, adepts still useful. Plus, it's cool when you have other adepts with you, but it's not required to make the adept effective, like people keep saying. I can bring a live hell to the enemies being the only adept in the team..

[neteng101]

LeandroBraz wrote...

Plus, you guys are crying before time. You don't know what they will nerf and how much. Maybe it's not that big deal and you will only need to adapt a little.

History has shown us what happens here.  Hunter Mode, Biotic explosions and Sabotage for example.  Sure people adapt, but the fun factor playing these powers has been reduced.

The Falcon is now a merely ok and really slow firing weapon that most people don't use.  Some have already mentioned how they stopped using the Falcon post-nerf.

Nerfs hurt the game, for good players that appreciate variety.  Period.  Meantime minmax crutch types will find the next best thing and move on to that.  Probably grenades.  Till that gets nerfed.

[dr octagon 3000]

I agree with bringing back the headshots on bosses. It doesn't add challenge I think it removes it. We no longer have anything to aim for.. Though I still do it out of habit. This is probably the one change bioware made that really annoyed me... I can roll with the rest but I found the headshot change dumb. Maybe they could have just dropped the dmg percent bonus on boss headshots instead?

[humes spork]

Core_Commander wrote...

And there's the problem - you are informed that the opposition is all robots, and bring two grunts to do the job instead of tech specialists. The presence of screws calls for a screwdriver, not a hammer.

Tali + Garrus, sabotage/overload spam shuts the whole place down like magic!

Been there, done that with an engineer Shepard. The problem is dealing with that first rocket salvo, even if you're jimmy on the spot with your sabotages you're not likely to shut down all of them and a few missiles will get through. If you can survive that you can mop up, but surviving the first salvo is the problem. Tali can survive that first salvo okay since she has shields out the ******, but Garrus crumples like a piece of paper.

It's way better to take at least one tank character and send them on a suicide run to eat that first rocket salvo then to put all your eggs in one basket hoping like hell your sabotages shut down enough drones to make sure Shepard's still standing at the end of it. Especially for the fact the drones aren't resilient and your "hammers" as you put it mop up easily enough despite not being techies.

Modifié par humes spork, 22 juin 2012 - 02:39 .

[The Absurdity]

Great post!  I totally concur.

[LeandroBraz]

neteng101 wrote...

LeandroBraz wrote...

Plus, you guys are crying before time. You don't know what they will nerf and how much. Maybe it's not that big deal and you will only need to adapt a little.

History has shown us what happens here.  Hunter Mode, Biotic explosions and Sabotage for example.  Sure people adapt, but the fun factor playing these powers has been reduced.

The Falcon is now a merely ok and really slow firing weapon that most people don't use.  Some have already mentioned how they stopped using the Falcon post-nerf.

Nerfs hurt the game, for good players that appreciate variety.  Period.  Meantime minmax crutch types will find the next best thing and move on to that.  Probably grenades.  Till that gets nerfed.

I don't like to get stucked in one class, so I'm always changing, I like to play with every classes, races and weapons. Never happened to get a nerfed class and think "hey, this isn't fun anymore". It's more like "okay, I will need to change my playstyle a little". 

 I used the falcon after the nerf, it still effective, more than I expected. The problem is that some people get used with a situation, and when they need to rethink that, they just say "f*ck with that, Bioware ruined it", and stop using the nerfed stuff. The prove is that there still a lot of players using the falcon..

[Kel Riever]

I don't know about anyone else, but I use ALL MY classes.

Because I like them all for different reasons. And I don't have to only pick one.

But remind me when they nerf something so much that I actually don't want to play it anymore and feel like I have less options. Then let me find the screen names of everybody asking for that nerf. So when I end up in a game with them, I can purposely screw it up.

Modifié par Kel Riever, 22 juin 2012 - 02:43 .