223 réponses à ce sujet

[A Wild Snorlax]

Nerfing infiltrators will not make the less used classes more appealing.

While I'm not too opposed to nerfing infiltrators if it's done in a reasonable manner, it's not the real fix to the diversity problems.

Grenade classes are great. Human soldier is great, the adepts are good allthough singularity is still appaling. However several of the remaining classes need some major work to become appealing.

Batarian sentinel
Vorcha soldier (just a nerfed sentinel, carnage or cluster grenades, come on)
Turian mobility, turian soldier in general (yes even with the hurricane)
Quarian female engineer - cryo and incinerate are not that great and should both be buffed in a major way.
Drellguard: his grenades are good, but the rest of the class is pretty terrible
Kroguard: needs to get the rage patched, or to have his melee damage bonuses increased.

Several powers need buffs. Blade armor, submission net, concussive shot, carnage, singularity, pull, cryo blast, incinerate, quarian turret stlll, warp needs to work properly, biotic sphere need to be easier to place,

Nerfing infiltrators will not make these classes or powers any less bad or more appealing. They should be uplifted to the point were they are good and you can use them without gimping yourself. However at the moment the classes or powers above are only good for variation and challenging yourself (warp is a good power, but misses way too often)

[Immaculate J]

Ubergrog wrote...

...Or all of you can provide evidence that this 'pc shield gate' exists.

I looked at your manifest, and my conclusion is that you're just really dumb.

[planeswalker85]

GGW KillerTiger wrote...

I1 Trust wrote...

Infiltrators are used 19.2% of the time. The soldier is the most popular class.

Yet Eric said the other day 33.6% of the community uses infiltrators? interesting ....

If i'm not mistaken, that screenshot came out about 2-3 weeks when ME 3 first came out months ago. Most people still didn't know what classes were strong so Soldiers are the easy choice to make (aka Sheperd)

[Kataigida]

Ubergrog wrote...

Right now on gold, a geth turret can kill ANYONE in a single burst fire if their shields are down. Using this as a BASE level of damage, every other mob in the game can do worse. If you currently revive and are anywhere close to any mob, you have just wasted a medigel due to the absurd level of damage or 100% chance of stagger that is forced on your character.  Did I mention that ALL sync-kill enemies are now bugged, kill you twice as fast, and CANNOT BE STUNNED?  All enemies now benefit from the stupid "shield gate" mechanic too, and no one has been able to give a good reason why the enemy gets shield gate and PC's dont.

The Geth Turrets are not as powerful as you make them sound to be (unless you're playing a squishy player) though they can be a nuisence if they are thrown behind cover, but honestly they are very easy to take care of. I mean an overload or tact-scan can take it down.

You shouldn't be reviving on a mob anyway unless it's a last resort. And the 100% stagger is only true for the Geth, which SHOULD be fixed because that enemy faction is just a mess.

I am not sure where you are getting your information about boss enemies...but the only reason they may be buggy is if you have bad lag... And they can be stunned. Atlas can be stunned, banshee can be stunned, phantoms can definetly be stunned... Sure, they may not be stunned for long, but you can stun them.

Players DO have shield gate, it's one of the few things that keeps you alive on gold. The only reason you may not notice ever now and then is just because you are under so much continuous fire that the shield gate only affects the original shot that took down your shield.

Ubergrog wrote... 

Lets go class by class now. This is for GOLD, not the lower difficulties

Adepts: Adepts are fine if you have at least one more adept on the team. Fragile does not begin to describe them and the number of problems with powers not taking effect are well documented at this point.  It's certainly not the worst class, but it dies the moment enemy fire comes it's way.  Also, almost every enemy save the Reapers can sit there and hop/dodge every power you throw at them, and two of the most deadly units have power-negating abilities. Welcome to being useless. The Phoenix adept is one of my favorite classes, but only against Cerberus.

Soldiers: Huge targets, questionably useful powers, I suppose the big reason why people don't commonly play this is the lack of "shiny" powers and the feel that this class is mostly a "play if you don't know how to use the more complicated classes".  Some powers are useless (Carnage), some are cool but are put on a platform too slow and clumsy for effective use (ballstic blades), others are OK but since soldiers tend to take heavier weapon loadouts makes them ineffective.  Oh, and super-slow melee attacks look great in a promo video, but are terrible in the actual game. Has anyone explained why a Phantom can ignore a grenade?  Oh, sorry I couldn't help kill the banshee, I was too busy running ALL OVER THE MAP TRYING TO REPLENISH MY GRENADES.

Engineers: All of the problems of the Adepts made worse because several of their powers are bugged.  Cryo blast doesn't work, the most recent boost to combat drone did nothing to aid it's usefulness, and the QFE's turret is still useless because it dies if an enemy sneezes at it.  Currently the best engineer is the Male Quarian because one power ignores cooldown (arc grenades), and the other has no known bugs (Incinerate)

Sentinels: Too many powers, too few points.  Some should not even be there (like the vorcha), all of the issues of Adepts and Engineers combined into a single package. The Krogan is tough as a hand full of rusty nails though.

Vanguards: I am calling you out here, Bioware.  You lied to us on your 1.03 bugfix list.  The vanguard bug is still there, and that's why people don't play them. 

Infiltrator: So, we have a single power that does the following: Forces the enemy to break focus on you, increases damage output, and lets you capture objectives and revive teammates relatively safely.  On top of that, every race option has a killer choice of secondary powers (Proximity mine, Energy drain, sabotage, Hunter Mode, Tactical Scan, hell even incinerate is a great option).  The worst bug inflicting this unit is tactical cloaks forced focus break does not always work. 


So... Why are you planning on nerfing Tactical cloak? The problem is not the power, the problem is very simple... I will try and explain it to you.


YOUR GAME IS BUGGY, YOU REFUSE TO FIX IT, AND YOU MADE THE MISSIONS TOO HARD TO FIGHT WITHOUT AT LEAST ONE INFILTRATOR ON THE TEAM!

The game is not as buggy as you are trying to make it sound like... Adepts can 'not' be paired with other adepts and still be useful. Justicar's bubbles are nice if used right, Asari can use stasis to halt enemies. Just because an adept can't set off a BE doesn't mean it's useless.

Soldiers I agree could stand to have...anything done with them. They are probably one of the weaker classes, and they don't get a large enough damage boost to weapons to be considered 'soldiers.'

Engineers are meant to be a support-type class, easily taking down shields and armor for their allies, or providing distractions via drones or turrets. If any engineer can't place their drone in the right place it will easily get destroyed. Engineers are more of a situational class than the others, particularly with overload and energy drain. None of the powers are bugged besides the 6 evolution of incinerate that is SUPPOSED to deal 100%+ damage to chilled targets, which it doesn't.

Sentinels are meant to provide powers to either prime or set off combinations, while being the most effective class at staying alive with their defense buff or health regen.

You make it sound like it's easy to fix the vanguard bug...but honestly charge is the most unique power in the game, allowing someone to both teleport and increase their shields. Trying to fix a bug created by lag is challenging without re-writing certain codes to try and compensate for lag.


In the end, missions are NOT too hard to fight without an infiltrator. If anything I find them to be a little easier/more fun without an infiltrator because you have more powers being used to slow down/kill/crowd control, and it's not hard if a team ACTUALLY works together to do objectives. As it stands, the only reason people think infiltrators are required for objectives is two reasons...

1) People don't work as a team very often on gold. Particularly PUGs. People tend to run off on their own or not pay attention to spawn points, etc. A good team is the key to victory, not an infiltrator.

2) People assume that an infiltrator is required to do objectives. They think that the ONLY way for an objective to get done is if there is an infiltrator there cloaked and working on it. That's not the case, and this kind of mentality comes from the fact that tactical cloak recharges too fast and lasts too long.

While you tried to bring up some good points, most of those points are negated by people that know how to play their class (and avoid lag-issues) or by a team that knows what it is doing.

[lpconfig]

Ubergrog wrote...


AND YOU MADE THE MISSIONS TOO HARD TO FIGHT WITHOUT AT LEAST ONE INFILTRATOR ON THE TEAM!

No.  Its not.

[lpconfig]

Atheosis wrote...

Ubergrog wrote...

YOU MADE THE MISSIONS TOO HARD TO FIGHT WITHOUT AT LEAST ONE INFILTRATOR ON THE TEAM!

For everyone who feels this way, I have but one response:  

YOU SHOULDN'T BE PLAYING GOLD!

I like this human.  He gets it.

[Derek Hollan]

Ubergrog wrote...


Fix the vanguard glitch, you lying jerks.
 

Definitely the kind of thing that will get a post noticed...for the wrong reason.

Time for a timeout.

[lpconfig]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ubergrog wrote...


Fix the vanguard glitch, you lying jerks.
 

Definitely the kind of thing that will get a post noticed...for the wrong reason.

Time for a timeout.

Abram does it better.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ubergrog wrote...


Fix the vanguard glitch, you lying jerks.
 

Definitely the kind of thing that will get a post noticed...for the wrong reason.

Time for a timeout.

HOLLAN HELLFIRE

(I just made that up, but feel free to use it, Derek.  You need a special power like Thomas' ABRAM SMASH.)

Modifié par CmnDwnWrkn, 22 juin 2012 - 03:32 .

[Derek Hollan]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ubergrog wrote...


Fix the vanguard glitch, you lying jerks.
 

Definitely the kind of thing that will get a post noticed...for the wrong reason.

Time for a timeout.

HOLLAN HELLFIRE

(I just made that up, but feel free to use it, Derek.  You need a special power like Thomas' ABRAM SMASH.)

It has potential. 

[Someone With Mass]

Eh, the shield gate is there because that's what it's supposed to do. Protect your squishy parts from bullets. Fits rather nice with the lore behind the kinetic barriers as well.

The players have shield gates too and hell would break loose if they were gone.

[Kel Riever]

You know, just sayin, it isn't really the best idea to tick off the mods, even when you disagree with them. I mean, who's going to win? Is it really a question?

And as if BioWare isn't aware of the VanGuard glitch by now.

Anyway, back to topic. Point is, nerf it or no, all classes have to be entertaining. Right now, the most boring class, at least to me, is Sentinel. Nerfing TC isn't going to fix that. Maybe if you nerf, like 4 other classes severely...or Sentinels could simply get a buff that matters.

[PoetryAvenger]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ubergrog wrote...


Fix the vanguard glitch, you lying jerks.
 

Definitely the kind of thing that will get a post noticed...for the wrong reason.

Time for a timeout.

I knew there was a reason why I woke up early this morning.

[Someone With Mass]

Oh, and the Vanguard glitch which makes you clip through the map isn't exclusive to the Vanguard at all. It can happen to any class if your ping is too damn high and you die and gets revived during that lag.

[Shampoohorn]

Derek Hollan wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

HOLLAN HELLFIRE

(I just made that up, but feel free to use it, Derek.  You need a special power like Thomas' ABRAM SMASH.)

It has potential. 

I would suggest "Time for a Hollanday."

Modifié par Shampoohorn, 22 juin 2012 - 03:44 .

[NobleVigilante]

Shampoohorn wrote...

Derek Hollan wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

HOLLAN HELLFIRE

(I just made that up, but feel free to use it, Derek.  You need a special power like Thomas' ABRAM SMASH.)

It has potential. 

I would suggest "Time for a Hollanday."

^ Like that haha.

[waakeegan]

OP...claiming all the other 5 classes are useless on Gold is just...silly, to put it nicely. Drell Adepts and Asari Justicars have reave, which gives them an excellent boost to DR. I can get shot in the face and have no problems surviving on my Justicar on Gold difficulty...and I made it so she doesn't have ANY fitness. Same for the Drell. And the Asari Adept doesn't even need another Adept to be in the team, they can set of biotic explosions on ANY enemy, plus they have Stasis, which easily gets past that power blockage crap you were talking about. Sentinels, post TA buff, are juggernauts (idk about the human though...). Turian Sentinel imo is still the best class in the game (although not nearly the most fun) because he has buttloads of DR from TA plus dmg bonus to powers and can deal with any situation (overload for shields, Chain overload for CC, warp for armor). Soldiers are picked quite often as well. The turian soldier has the amazing MM ability, and with a Hurricane has the one of the highest DPS in the game. The Batarian Soldier hates everybody and gives zero fks about anyone, slaughtering things with Ballistic blades. I can go on for a while. The point is, the other classes are definitely not as useless as you claim..

[ElectroNeonPanda]

Shampoohorn wrote...

I would suggest "Time for a Hollanday."

Well played sir.

Regarding the OP, Infiltrators aren't required for Gold.  They just trivialise it.  Case in point, the sub-10 minute clear threads by all Infiltrator teams.  If a scapegoat is needed in the eventuality of a downward tweak for TC then Infilitrators won't have to look too far.

Modifié par ElectroNeonPanda, 22 juin 2012 - 03:52 .

[Rodia Driftwood]

Derek Hollan wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Derek Hollan wrote...

Ubergrog wrote...


Fix the vanguard glitch, you lying jerks.
 

Definitely the kind of thing that will get a post noticed...for the wrong reason.

Time for a timeout.

HOLLAN HELLFIRE

(I just made that up, but feel free to use it, Derek.  You need a special power like Thomas' ABRAM SMASH.)

It has potential. 

HOLLAN THUNDERSTRIKE!. How do you get Hellfire from a Lightning display?. o.O

HOLLA, HOLLA, GET A VACATION!. No?. Lol..

Modifié par Rodia Driftwood, 22 juin 2012 - 03:52 .

[Shampoohorn]

planeswalker85 wrote...

GGW KillerTiger wrote...

I1 Trust wrote...

Infiltrators are used 19.2% of the time. The soldier is the most popular class.

(img snipped)
 

Yet Eric said the other day 33.6% of the community uses infiltrators? interesting ....

If i'm not mistaken, that screenshot came out about 2-3 weeks when ME 3 first came out months ago. Most people still didn't know what classes were strong so Soldiers are the easy choice to make (aka Sheperd)

19.2% across all difficulties.

33.6% is a number for gold only.


I find the logic of your comparison more 'interesting...' than the numbers themselves. 

Modifié par Shampoohorn, 22 juin 2012 - 04:01 .

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Shampoohorn wrote...

Derek Hollan wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

HOLLAN HELLFIRE

(I just made that up, but feel free to use it, Derek.  You need a special power like Thomas' ABRAM SMASH.)

It has potential. 

I would suggest "Time for a Hollanday."

Nice.  I love this one

[landylan]

that image is old and uses data from all three difficulties most likely. most classes dont suffer from bugs. people dont want a nerf because theyre too attached to their infiltrators and cant play anything else....ive had good sniping friends who dont know how to do a biotic explosion. saying that the hardest difficulty is too hard without a godly class isnt a good argument too nerf. pretty much everything bioware classes do is fine but not perfect. people dont even know what's gonna happen to it yet. you cant even notice the hunter mode nerf. also sync kill units are fine imo. im not sure if ive seen a banshee get staggered in a while, but that's it. also, the fixes he listed would make more infiltrators....no shield gate? really? boss headshots again.....

shampoohorn beat me

Hollan, holla at your girl!!!....i tried

Modifié par landylan, 22 juin 2012 - 03:59 .

[lpconfig]

Shampoohorn wrote...

Derek Hollan wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

HOLLAN HELLFIRE

(I just made that up, but feel free to use it, Derek.  You need a special power like Thomas' ABRAM SMASH.)

It has potential. 

I would suggest "Time for a Hollanday."

Win.

[The fool you should have eaten]

Kel Riever wrote...

I don't know about anyone else, but I use ALL MY classes.

Because I like them all for different reasons. And I don't have to only pick one.

But remind me when they nerf something so much that I actually don't want to play it anymore and feel like I have less options. Then let me find the screen names of everybody asking for that nerf. So when I end up in a game with them, I can purposely screw it up.

Hey! Me too!...  Except for my infiltrators, I just promote them so that I feel like the character cards are doing something. 

My most successful gold level character is my batarian soldier, not that I play gold all that often, just when the mood strikes.

[shadowkinz]

What about people playing mostly infiltrators means it is op.. rogue/stealth classes are always popular