297 réponses à ce sujet

[robarcool]

Lord Rosario wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

Kronner wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...
So you want the player to pick between damage bonus and utility.  "Invisibility" is a utility, not a damage bonus.  So, you want the player to pick between damage bonus and "invisibility".

No. I want the player to pick between damage and duration. Invisibility is there by default, you can't not pick that without skipping Cloak altogether.

BW can do all sorts of things to the aggro dump.  They can make it more effective or less effective.  And it is a utility.  So, my statement remains true.  If you choose to specify what you really want, that is another matter.

People can already choose duration over damage.  Why would anybody choose duration over damage?  What are they going to do with a longer duration that's more fun than damage.  And longer duration means more aggro dump.  that's the worst option as far as I'm concerened.

Seems that helping your team out of sticky situations isn't considered fun by most. Personally, I love knowing that I saved the entire team from losing several times in a single run, did 90% of the objectives, and was able to pick off the low level enemies that are far off from the group without having to leave their side. To me, that is what being an infiltrator is all about. Could care less about being able to one/two shot a brute.

[This post is entirely opinion. :]

Yep. But I wouldn't mind to kill a few brutes on the way though!

[Lord Rosario]

robarcool wrote...

Lord Rosario wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

Kronner wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...
So you want the player to pick between damage bonus and utility.  "Invisibility" is a utility, not a damage bonus.  So, you want the player to pick between damage bonus and "invisibility".

No. I want the player to pick between damage and duration. Invisibility is there by default, you can't not pick that without skipping Cloak altogether.

BW can do all sorts of things to the aggro dump.  They can make it more effective or less effective.  And it is a utility.  So, my statement remains true.  If you choose to specify what you really want, that is another matter.

People can already choose duration over damage.  Why would anybody choose duration over damage?  What are they going to do with a longer duration that's more fun than damage.  And longer duration means more aggro dump.  that's the worst option as far as I'm concerened.

Seems that helping your team out of sticky situations isn't considered fun by most. Personally, I love knowing that I saved the entire team from losing several times in a single run, did 90% of the objectives, and was able to pick off the low level enemies that are far off from the group without having to leave their side. To me, that is what being an infiltrator is all about. Could care less about being able to one/two shot a brute.

[This post is entirely opinion. :]

Yep. But I wouldn't mind to kill a few brutes on the way though!

Well sure! Just not in two shots maybe

[robarcool]

When I play SI, it sure takes more than 2 with the Widow. With Claymore GI, it is possible to 2 shot them though.

Modifié par robarcool, 26 juin 2012 - 12:31 .

[Tim_H]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Again I have no idea how to find openings for those positions or anything. 

Hi GodlessPaladin

I'm a software engineer and have been to a few game developers conferences.

Attending conferences and getting facetime with representatives from companies may help.  If it all possible, like an artist, take sample work with you.

Another take--
For game design (writing) or game design (graphics), look for colleges offer specialized programs in video game development and get a degree from one of those schools.  I have a friend who was in industry (he has creds for Brothers in Arms) and who obtained a masters degree from a college in Texas.

Also maybe when you build a reputation as an amateur modder, you may attract a big company's attention.  I think some of the guys who develop mods for Creative Assembly's Total War series have gone onto bigger and better things.

[nicethugbert]

Lord Rosario wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

Kronner wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...
So you want the player to pick between damage bonus and utility.  "Invisibility" is a utility, not a damage bonus.  So, you want the player to pick between damage bonus and "invisibility".

No. I want the player to pick between damage and duration. Invisibility is there by default, you can't not pick that without skipping Cloak altogether.

BW can do all sorts of things to the aggro dump.  They can make it more effective or less effective.  And it is a utility.  So, my statement remains true.  If you choose to specify what you really want, that is another matter.

People can already choose duration over damage.  Why would anybody choose duration over damage?  What are they going to do with a longer duration that's more fun than damage.  And longer duration means more aggro dump.  that's the worst option as far as I'm concerened.

Seems that helping your team out of sticky situations isn't considered fun by most. Personally, I love knowing that I saved the entire team from losing several times in a single run, did 90% of the objectives, and was able to pick off the low level enemies that are far off from the group without having to leave their side. To me, that is what being an infiltrator is all about. Could care less about being able to one/two shot a brute.

[This post is entirely opinion. :]

I have fun helping my team all the time regardless of which class I use.  I do it all.  I revive, get objectives, line up shots, kill stuff, stop sync kills, all while taking my fair share of the aggro, all without the TC crutch.


Infiltrators don't do anything special in this game except dump aggro via TC.  They're not doing Gods work, so, we shouldn't have to tolerate their aggro dump.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 26 juin 2012 - 10:22 .

[Manuel La Bor]

The infiltrator has been changed;
Jack of all trades, or master of one.

[Highlord Heian]

Enjoy getting your own objectives, knuckle-draggers.

[Manuel La Bor]

Highlord Heian wrote...

Enjoy getting your own objectives, knuckle-draggers.

That isn't necessary at all. The same basic strategy holds true, 2-3 people hold an area and draw enemies, 1-2 people run around getting objectives. Might be more difficult for infiltrators, or people used to having other people do it for them. Other characters aren't really effected unless they relied on infiltrators overmuch.

Everyone has to learn how to clean a toilet someday. 

[Moby]

Manuel La Bor wrote...
Everyone has to learn how to clean a toilet someday. 

Betcha Tommy Lee didn't.

[GodlessPaladin]

Every other class has always managed to be able to get objectives without the ability to be invisible.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

I love how the change to Tac Cloak is exposing all of the fraudulent "team players". The ones who said, "It's a co-op game so you should be happy for my massive damage buff + insane aggro dump. Plus, I'm running around the map rezzing and capping and helping the team win."

Yet these same people are now foregoing duration for damage and saying they'll never help a squadmate again. Yeah, some team players these guys are.

[Manuel La Bor]

MofuggerX wrote...

Manuel La Bor wrote...
Everyone has to learn how to clean a toilet someday. 

Betcha Tommy Lee didn't.

Considering the germ/bacteria count of pamela anderson's woman parts I'd say he did. 

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Every other class has always managed to be able to get objectives without the ability to be invisible.

This. 


I find it odd how those angry with the infilly nerf are now claiming it's impossible to rez or hack despite all the other classes having to do it without invisibility since launch. Seems to me they just grew too familiar with the great advantage they had that now, with a lesser version of it they can not seem to find their footing and are having trouble adapting. 

[tetsutsuru]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Every other class has always managed to be able to get objectives without the ability to be invisible.

While I'm not here on their defense, I'm just playing objectivity on both sides.

That's not it at all.

It'd be incredibly idiotic of BioWare to mandate an objective wave with its completion exclusive to a single class.  If the trolling nature and vitriolic verbage of the posts your referring to are ignored, all they maybe trying to say is this:

Of course, non-Infiltrators can capture objectives.  And teams without any Infitrators can complete Objective Capture missions.  But weren't those objective waves easier for the rest of team when an effective Infiltrator was present, and efficiently took care of those objectives?

Modifié par tetsutsuru, 28 juin 2012 - 09:55 .

[Scudman_Alpha]

"Jack of all trades, Master of all"

Hey thats the sentinel's logo...i think

Modifié par Scudman_Alpha, 28 juin 2012 - 10:08 .

[Ashen One]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Every other class has always managed to be able to get objectives without the ability to be invisible.

This. 


I find it odd how those angry with the infilly nerf are now claiming it's impossible to rez or hack despite all the other classes having to do it without invisibility since launch. Seems to me they just grew too familiar with the great advantage they had that now, with a lesser version of it they can not seem to find their footing and are having trouble adapting. 

Not really. I've said this in other threads, and I'll say it again here: Assuming someone died close enough where you will not need the entire 5 second duration of TC to rez, TC is probably not even necessary in the first place, as any class could probably revive the guy who got killed because he died so close to the team. The problem arises when the guy who got killed died farther away, and there is no time to clear out the enemies first. A damage specced infiltrator with a Widow, Black Widow, or Javelin will trigger a very long cooldown on TC should he/she stay in cloak for the full duration, and personally I think being exposed with a 7-8+ second cooldown on Gold is suicide.

I'll still revive team mates, but I'm going to clear all of the enemies in the area first. If the other guy bleeds out, then whatever.

For me, it's not out of spite or anything, just that a Sentinel or Vanguard could do the same thing in a situation like that without triggering a ridiculously long power cooldown, and subsequently having their asses handed to them.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 28 juin 2012 - 10:19 .

[tetsutsuru]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Every other class has always managed to be able to get objectives without the ability to be invisible.

This. 


I find it odd how those angry with the infilly nerf are now claiming it's impossible to rez or hack despite all the other classes having to do it without invisibility since launch. Seems to me they just grew too familiar with the great advantage they had that now, with a lesser version of it they can not seem to find their footing and are having trouble adapting. 

Not really. I've said this in other threads, and I'll say it again here: Assuming someone died close enough where you will not need the entire 5 second duration of TC to rez, TC is probably not even necessary in the first place, as any class could probably revive the guy who got killed because he died so close to the team. The problem arises when the guy who got killed died farther away, and there is no time to clear out the enemies first. A damage specced infiltrator with a Widow, Black Widow, or Javelin will trigger a very long cooldown on TC should he/she stay in cloak for the full duration, and personally I think being exposed with a 7-8+ second cooldown on Gold is suicide.

I'll still revive team mates, but I'm going to clear all of the enemies in the area first. If the other guy bleeds out, then whatever.

For me, it's not out of spite or anything, just that a Sentinel or Vanguard could do the same thing in a situation like that without triggering a ridiculously long power cooldown, and subsequently having their asses handed to them.

+1 Exactly.

Not out of spite, or anything of the sort.  Simply, nerfed capabilities = nerfed performance.

[Demon9ne]

An overzealous mod locked my Infiltrator/TC topic, so I'm just going to jump in here. Apologies in advance for not reading the full 12 pages of this topic (I did read pages 1-2 though).

Tactical Cloak's big problem is that it doesn't really balance well between the close-range and long-range infiltrator. To illustrate this, the tactics of the pre-nerf infiltrator:

Close-range, high-risk tactics:
1. Cloak
2. Close distance to group of enemies
3. Choose and kill a target
4. Survive through cooldown (fail here and you pass the risk to your team, if they try coming to revive you)
5. Re-cloak
6. Reposition

Long-range, zero-to-low-risk tactics:
1. Cloak (having aimed beforehand)
2. Shoot

The problem here should be evident. There is nothing tactical about Tactical Cloak when playing a long-range infiltrator. This skill shouldn't be a "damage potion".

Post-nerf, the close-range Infiltrator with Evolution 4 damage is not viable. This build has a 4 second cloak, during which time you are still being shot at by the enemy AIs for 3 seconds. Hence, your tactics have been dumbed down to:

Post-nerf, close-range, moderate-risk Infiltrator tactics:
1. Cloak
2. Dodge around like a lunatic, if you're still drawing aggro, OR a quick reposition
3. Shoot

And let's see if the sniper's tactics have changed... Nope:

Post-nerf, long-range, zero-to-low-risk tactics:
1. Cloak (having aimed beforehand)
2. Shoot

There is a definite design problem happening here, which is exacerbated by the poor AI, and taking the duration bonus at Evolution 4 is not a solution--it is simply ignoring the viability problem caused by the base duration nerf.

Modifié par Demon9ne, 29 juin 2012 - 01:31 .

[Jay_Hoxtatron]

Demon9ne wrote...

An overzealous mod locked my Infiltrator/TC topic, so I'm just going to jump in here. Apologies in advance for not reading the full 12 pages of this topic (I did read pages 1-2 though).

Tactical Cloak's big problem is that it doesn't really balance well between the close-range and long-range infiltrator. To illustrate this, the tactics of the pre-nerf infiltrator:

Close-range, high-risk tactics:
1. Cloak
2. Close distance to group of enemies
3. Choose and kill a target
4. Survive through cooldown (fail here and you pass the risk to your team, if they try coming to revive you)
5. Re-cloak
6. Reposition

Long-range, zero-to-low-risk tactics:
1. Cloak (having aimed beforehand)
2. Shoot

The problem here should be evident. There is nothing tactical about Tactical Cloak when playing a long-range infiltrator. This skill shouldn't be a "damage potion".

Post-nerf, the close-range Infiltrator with Evolution 4 damage is not viable. This build has a 4 second cloak, during which time you are still being shot at by the enemy AIs for 3 seconds. Hence, your tactics have been dumbed down to:

Post-nerf, close-range, moderate-risk Infiltrator tactics:
1. Cloak
2. Dodge around like a lunatic, if you're still drawing aggro, OR a quick reposition
3. Shoot

And let's see if the sniper's tactics have changed... Nope:

Post-nerf, long-range, zero-to-low-risk tactics:
1. Cloak (having aimed beforehand)
2. Shoot

There is a definite design problem happening here, which is exacerbated by the poor AI, and taking the duration bonus at Evolution 4 is not a solution--it is simply ignoring the viability problem caused by the base duration nerf.

Are you kidding? The best build now for infiltrators are with shotguns. So yeah, close range all the way.

[GodlessPaladin]

tetsutsuru wrote...
Of course, non-Infiltrators can capture objectives. And teams without any Infitrators can complete Objective Capture missions. But weren't those objective waves easier for the rest of team when an effective Infiltrator was present, and efficiently took care of those objectives?

Of course they were.  And they're still relatively easy for an Infiltrator, just not by the same factor they were before (unless you take duration spec). But some people are taking the position that suddenly Infiltrators can't help the team revive or grab objectives (or are somehow justified in not helping the team and using this as some sort of threat) because they don't have quite the categorical advantage they used to, and that's just silly.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 29 juin 2012 - 02:02 .

[DnVill]

Another thread praising Infiltrators as the jack of all trades and that they can do anything but when someone starts to complain why their not doing it, they go "It's not an Infiltrator's job"

Though I praise those infiltrators who'll pick Utility over damage.

[ODST Steve]

The way it is now Infiltrators can use 2-3 powers at the expense of Tactical Cloaks jokingly minimal cooldown. Now if Infiltrators actually suffered from cooldowns and had to think about the weight of their weapons they could be balanced.

Edit: There is no need to diminish their damage bonuses, when that is not the biggest problem. They are immune to a large portion of the games mechanics. (weight, cooldown, health) This is the root of their power. But this is something that needs to be fixed with a hard update.

Modifié par ODST Steve, 16 juillet 2012 - 05:19 .

[Adhok42]

ODST Steve wrote...

The way it is now Infiltrators can use 2-3 powers at the expense of Tactical Cloaks jokingly minimal cooldown. Now if Infiltrators actually suffered from cooldowns and had to think about the weight of their weapons they could be balanced.

AAAAAHHHH!!! ZOMBIE!!!! KILLIT!KILLIT!KILLIT!KILLIT!KILLIT!KILLIT!KILLIT!KILLIT!KILLIT!KILLIT!