297 réponses à ce sujet

[tfoltz]

I just don't want TC nerfed because it will make games with randoms even worse.

[tetsutsuru]

It's a class built around specializing on using Sniper Rifles. Right now, it does that.

Where is the sense in removing "sniper rifle specialization" from a class that specializes in using sniper rifles?

If I want to use sniper rifles, I use my Infiltrator.  If I want to use assault rifles, I use the Soldier.  If I want to use Biotics, I use either my Justicar or Ex-Cerberus.

If I want my Female Human Engineer to use a sniper rifle, WHY will I expect her to be got at it?  Why should she be good at it?  Scout Snipers come from Sniper School.  Don't you think there's a reason the Scout Sniper will be better with a sniper rifle, than shock infantryman using the same sniper rifle?

Modifié par tetsutsuru, 22 juin 2012 - 06:48 .

[GodlessPaladin]

tetsutsuru wrote...

It's a class built around specializing on using Sniper Rifles. Right now, it does that.

Where is the sense in removing "sniper rifle specialization" from a class specializes in using sniper rifles?

I feel I already addressed this post in the OP.  It's not a class built around specializing in using sniper rifles.  There's a lot more to Infiltrators than being sniper rifle specialists and many Infiltrators use shotguns, assault rifles, pistols, or even occasionally SMGs.  Infiltrators aren't even particularly better off with sniper rifles than they are with other options.  All the "specialization" does is relegate an entire category of weapons to essentially being "infiltrators only" whereas every other category of weapons is open to everyone.

In other words, they're not sniper rifle specialists, they just have sniper rifle as an actually decent option alongside every other weapon type.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 22 juin 2012 - 06:57 .

[Tankcommander]

death_for_sale wrote...

I find myself in the weird position of agreeing with GodlessPaladin.

Who would have thought?

He's generally pretty spot on, but I feel he is a little biased against Infiltrators, since a good player is a good player, regardless of class. I feel a lot of good players like Infiltrator, because it is a fun class, and you are versatile.

The sniping specialization. Yes, Infiltrators are the 'sniper' class, and they should act like it. But I'm all for making SRs more usable for everyone else, because right now I wouldn't dream of running anything but a Kishock on a non-infiltrator.

[tetsutsuru]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

tetsutsuru wrote...

It's a class built around specializing on using Sniper Rifles. Right now, it does that.

Where is the sense in removing "sniper rifle specialization" from a class specializes in using sniper rifles?

I feel I already addressed this post in the OP.  There's a lot more to Infiltrators than being sniper rifle specialists and many Infiltrators use shotguns, assault rifles, pistols, or even occasionally SMGs.  Infiltrators aren't even particularly better off with sniper rifles than they are with other options.  All the "specialization" does is relegate an entire category of weapons to essentially being "infiltrators only" whereas every other category of weapons is open to everyone.

Which is exactly what the "specialization" is for.  So what's the problem?  If anything, TC weapon bonuses to only apply to sniper rifles?  Why not go that route?

Modifié par tetsutsuru, 22 juin 2012 - 06:56 .

[tetsutsuru]

Tankcommander wrote...

He's generally pretty spot on, but I feel he is a little biased against Infiltrators, since a good player is a good player, regardless of class. I feel a lot of good players like Infiltrator, because it is a fun class, and you are versatile.

The sniping specialization. Yes, Infiltrators are the 'sniper' class, and they should act like it. But I'm all for making SRs more usable for everyone else, because right now I wouldn't dream of running anything but a Kishock on a non-infiltrator.

The use of Sniper Rifles isn't restricted to Infiltrators only.

[Pitznik]

tetsutsuru wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

tetsutsuru wrote...

It's a class built around specializing on using Sniper Rifles. Right now, it does that.

Where is the sense in removing "sniper rifle specialization" from a class specializes in using sniper rifles?

I feel I already addressed this post in the OP.  There's a lot more to Infiltrators than being sniper rifle specialists and many Infiltrators use shotguns, assault rifles, pistols, or even occasionally SMGs.  Infiltrators aren't even particularly better off with sniper rifles than they are with other options.  All the "specialization" does is relegate an entire category of weapons to essentially being "infiltrators only" whereas every other category of weapons is open to everyone.

Which is exactly what the "specialization" is for.  So what's the problem?  If anything, TC weapon bonuses to only apply to sniper rifles?  Why not go that route?

The problem is forcing one class to use just one weapon type, while at the same time making this weapon type weak for everyone else. Instead of 5 weapon types for everyone, you end up with 1 weapon type for one class, and 4 weapon types for other 5 classes. What is the point of creating variety of weapons but then restrict them to particular classes?

[GodlessPaladin]

Tankcommander wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

I find myself in the weird position of agreeing with GodlessPaladin.

Who would have thought?

He's generally pretty spot on, but I feel he is a little biased against Infiltrators, since a good player is a good player, regardless of class.

  Your conclusion here doesn't follow from your premise.  A good player is a good player regardless of class, but that doesn't mean that all the classes are equal in a skilled player's hands, or anyone's hands for that matter.  I can't do 11 minute speedruns or 22 minute solos with a Female Quarian Engineer, for example.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 22 juin 2012 - 07:10 .

[tetsutsuru]

Pitznik wrote...

The problem is forcing one class to use just one weapon type, while at the same time making this weapon type weak for everyone else. Instead of 5 weapon types for everyone, you end up with 1 weapon type for one class, and 4 weapon types for other 5 classes. What is the point of creating variety of weapons but then restrict them to particular classes?

But isn't that what defines the Infiltrator:  proficient use of the Sniper Rifle?  There's nothing stopping any other class from packing a sniper rifle on his/her back to the battlefield.  So I'm not quite understanding the use of the word "restriction" in the current context.  Or is the complaint that the Infiltrator class is the one that is restricted to use sniper rifles?  Because that isn't true either.  When I feel like horsing around, I leave my Black Widow and bring the Scorpion.  It's a weapon class that I should receive no bonus on, so I have no reason to expect such.  There are shotgun Infiltrators here.  Their shotguns don't benefit from the SR-bonus damage mechanic.

The same way the Vanguard is defined by Biotic Charge.  It's a class that doesn't really need to take a weapon.  The game mechanic just requires at least 1 equipped.  Why would there be lobbying for a "weapon specialization" for that class?

Modifié par tetsutsuru, 22 juin 2012 - 07:09 .

[my Aim is True]

Interesting.
Answer me this please, how does the Salarian have "high functional health/shields of 2592" I don't understand

[Geek]

tetsutsuru wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

The problem is forcing one class to use just one weapon type, while at the same time making this weapon type weak for everyone else. Instead of 5 weapon types for everyone, you end up with 1 weapon type for one class, and 4 weapon types for other 5 classes. What is the point of creating variety of weapons but then restrict them to particular classes?

But isn't that what defines the Infiltrator:  proficient use of the Sniper Rifle?  There's nothing stopping any other class from packing a sniper rifle on his/her back to the battlefield.  So I'm not quite understanding the use of the word "restriction" in the current context.  Or is the complaint that the Infiltrator class is the one that is restricted to use sniper rifles?  Because that isn't true either.  When I feel like horsing around, I leave my Black Widow and bring the Scorpion.  It's a weapon class that I should receive no bonus on, so I have no reason to expect such.

The same way the Vanguard is defined by Biotic Charge.  It's a class that doesn't really need to take a weapon.  The game mechanic just requires at least 1 equipped.  Why would there be lobbying for a "weapon specialization" for that class?

I'd say tactical cloak is what defines infiltrators. I see as many infiltrators use shotguns as snipers, and a decent amount of pistols. Allowing tc bonus to only apply to snipers reduces options and isn't a good thing.

Modifié par rymoulton, 22 juin 2012 - 07:13 .

[GodlessPaladin]

my Aim is True wrote...

Interesting.
Answer me this please, how does the Salarian have "high functional health/shields of 2592" I don't understand

They have better than average base health/shields and can add on damage reduction from one of the evolutions of Energy Drain.  Combine this with Tactical Cloak, the ability to instantly regenerate shields every 4 seconds or so, and the ability to lay traps, stagger large groups of enemies reliably, and neutralize threats quickly, and you've got one tough cookie.  It's pretty hard to die as a Salarian Infiltrator specced for survivability.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/343/index/12257669

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 22 juin 2012 - 07:12 .

[tetsutsuru]

rymoulton wrote...

tetsutsuru wrote...

But isn't that what defines the Infiltrator:  proficient use of the Sniper Rifle?  There's nothing stopping any other class from packing a sniper rifle on his/her back to the battlefield.  So I'm not quite understanding the use of the word "restriction" in the current context.  Or is the complaint that the Infiltrator class is the one that is restricted to use sniper rifles?  Because that isn't true either.  When I feel like horsing around, I leave my Black Widow and bring the Scorpion.  It's a weapon class that I should receive no bonus on, so I have no reason to expect such.

The same way the Vanguard is defined by Biotic Charge.  It's a class that doesn't really need to take a weapon.  The game mechanic just requires at least 1 equipped.  Why would there be lobbying for a "weapon specialization" for that class?

I'd say tactical cloak is what defines infiltrators. I see as many infiltrators use shotguns as snipers, and a decent amount of pistols.

Tactical Cloak grants bonus damage with sniper rifles, which is where my post's context is coming from.

[GaryMaple]

http://imageshack.us...5/22363301.jpg/

Modifié par GaryMaple, 22 juin 2012 - 07:18 .

[Geek]

tetsutsuru wrote...

rymoulton wrote...

tetsutsuru wrote...

But isn't that what defines the Infiltrator:  proficient use of the Sniper Rifle?  There's nothing stopping any other class from packing a sniper rifle on his/her back to the battlefield.  So I'm not quite understanding the use of the word "restriction" in the current context.  Or is the complaint that the Infiltrator class is the one that is restricted to use sniper rifles?  Because that isn't true either.  When I feel like horsing around, I leave my Black Widow and bring the Scorpion.  It's a weapon class that I should receive no bonus on, so I have no reason to expect such.

The same way the Vanguard is defined by Biotic Charge.  It's a class that doesn't really need to take a weapon.  The game mechanic just requires at least 1 equipped.  Why would there be lobbying for a "weapon specialization" for that class?

I'd say tactical cloak is what defines infiltrators. I see as many infiltrators use shotguns as snipers, and a decent amount of pistols.

Tactical Cloak grants bonus damage with sniper rifles, which is where my post's context is coming from.

Sorry if I am misunderstanding your posts. I am aware that tactical cloak grants damage to sniper rifles, as well as granting extra damage to any weapon. Are you suggesting that TC only grant bonus to sniper rifles?

[holdenagincourt]

It's nice when a community member covers it all like this. There's nothing I can really think of to add.

Good job on making your argument both succinct and comprehensive, and on attempting to cool the overheated rhetoric around here. 

[Pitznik]

tetsutsuru wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

The problem is forcing one class to use just one weapon type, while at the same time making this weapon type weak for everyone else. Instead of 5 weapon types for everyone, you end up with 1 weapon type for one class, and 4 weapon types for other 5 classes. What is the point of creating variety of weapons but then restrict them to particular classes?

But isn't that what defines the Infiltrator:  proficient use of the Sniper Rifle?  There's nothing stopping any other class from packing a sniper rifle on his/her back to the battlefield.  So I'm not quite understanding the use of the word "restriction" in the current context.  Or is the complaint that the Infiltrator class is the one that is restricted to use sniper rifles?  Because that isn't true either.  When I feel like horsing around, I leave my Black Widow and bring the Scorpion.  It's a weapon class that I should receive no bonus on, so I have no reason to expect such.  There are shotgun Infiltrators here.  Their shotguns don't benefit from the SR-bonus damage mechanic.

The same way the Vanguard is defined by Biotic Charge.  It's a class that doesn't really need to take a weapon.  The game mechanic just requires at least 1 equipped.  Why would there be lobbying for a "weapon specialization" for that class?

Again: if one class can be 150% efficient with given weapon type, that means either weapon will be ok on Infiltrator, but weak on everyone else (so in a way the use of weapon is restricted to Infiltrator), or it will be good, but balanced on everyone else, but OP on Infiltrator (Krysae!). Such bonus creates balancing problems with weapons.

[defleshing]

i ready for the nerf. i really don't think it will change anything. most of the buffs and nerfs in this game arnt that noticeable in game. i image the majority of people who play this game never visit these forums and have no idea they change things week by week. me3 the constant beta. i don't expect a noticeable difference. either way i don't care if they nerf them into dark space either. ill be more excited to see more things get buffed. godless has good ideas hopefully bioware thinks so as well.

[Tim_H]

I'm pretty lame at playing infiltrator. I think there are only a few really good infiltrator players. On the other hand, I really rock as an engineer.

[capn233]

defleshing wrote...

i ready for the nerf. i really don't think it will change anything. most of the buffs and nerfs in this game arnt that noticeable in game. i image the majority of people who play this game never visit these forums and have no idea they change things week by week. me3 the constant beta. i don't expect a noticeable difference. either way i don't care if they nerf them into dark space either. ill be more excited to see more things get buffed. godless has good ideas hopefully bioware thinks so as well.

I also do not expect anything radical whatsoever.  That said, there have been a few odd balance changes that were not all that subtle (Backfire buff, then Tech Vulnerability nerf, for example).

[Arppis]

I doubt they will crubstomp your class.

Adapt or die.

[defleshing]

capn233 wrote...

defleshing wrote...

i ready for the nerf. i really don't think it will change anything. most of the buffs and nerfs in this game arnt that noticeable in game. i image the majority of people who play this game never visit these forums and have no idea they change things week by week. me3 the constant beta. i don't expect a noticeable difference. either way i don't care if they nerf them into dark space either. ill be more excited to see more things get buffed. godless has good ideas hopefully bioware thinks so as well.

I also do not expect anything radical whatsoever.  That said, there have been a few odd balance changes that were not all that subtle (Backfire buff, then Tech Vulnerability nerf, for example).

see that's one i didn't notice . i still find hack to be one of the most powerful overall best powers in this game. my scores didn't go down with my qfi after the nerf. maybe i just don't pay attention. i didn't notice a difference with the geth nerf either. i can still do just as good with both .

[Pitznik]

I expect Infiltrator still being the best over class after the nerf. And I'm ok with it tbh.

[Lexa_D]

neteng101 wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

As they currently stand, Infiltrators do it all.

Nope.  They sure can't tank.  If you're gonna try to stand up under fire then you have to play a tank class, which is where Sentinels with Tech Armor, Krogans with Barrier, Vorcha with health regeneration shine.

And Infiltrators suck at crowd control too.  You either kill the enemy first or you're dead.  Nerfing them will just negate the only real survivability option they have ie. kill, or be killed.

You're being disingeneous trying to spout your own agenda again here, and obviously painting a one sided view.

Btw - adepts are the pistol class, and they should remain that way.  Too many adept wannabe snipers as it is already.  ARs and SMGs need a good look at, but pistols, shotguns and snipers are all fine.  And that Krysae has so many bugs and is such a horrible weapon to actually play with, that I really pity anyone using it more than envy them.

There is no class which can "stand under fire" in this game. Try SI, especially vs Geth - he can be tankier than a Krogan
And your opinion on Krysae can be used to illustrate how pursuing originality can undermine all credibility.