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[StolenPlatypus]

greggm2000 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

For BioWare and the people that play ME...

Mass Effect was one of the series that had the opportunity to go out with such a big bang with the Indoc Theory that it would have been an all too perfect ending.

I expected my Shep to face indoc at...SOME...point in the series, my Shep just had to. Indoctrination is as big as the reapers themselves so it would be stupid to not have Shep face it at some point. Sadly that did not happen.

Instead the series ended with a wimper and a sigh! They had the perfect chance to do somthing that no one else has ever done..."raise the bar" of what a dev can do and pull the player themselves into the game by indoctrinating them along side your own Shep.

Instead of raising the bar and adding to the evolution of games they down graded it to games like Deus Ex rather then being unique and original, I mean Hell, Mass Effect was destined to greatness and evolve the way we played games and it failed.

Everything pointed to an indoc attempt by the reapers in the game that made us believe that we are in for one hell of a ride. The dreams seemed so dark and sinister that I was at awe with it and its creativity of what I thought the devs were doing(reaper indoc of Shep). Think about it, indoc is to break down your mental barriers and that is what is happing to shep.Sadly the dreams meant absolutely nothing.

The Games ending is completely forgetable and will go down as one of the games that will not stand out with great evolutional games like Elder Scrolls for example. "Some writers" cant see potential starring them in the face and are scared to challange what is not the norm for a game and shock and awe us.

One could make a case for them doing that for ME4, revealing it at the start of the game in the prologue.. but I think the chance of them actually doing that is about as good as me winning millions in a lottery tomorrow... which is to say: nonzero probability, but I would be truly be SHOCKED if they did. For them to go in that direction now is almost inconceivable.

That would make a neat premise for ME4, if shepard gets caught and indoced in london, the whole citadel/catalyst ending is an indoc dream/nightmare. They could make your choice of ending define what role you end up with in the 4th game during the reaper campaigns of conquest.
blue, coopts a reaper to use in fighting the invasion.
red, reaper destroyed and alliance uses salvaged reaper tech to fight off invasion.
green, reaper joins good guys and fights former comrades willingly(alternately paints itself with hippy flowers and trys to spread a message of peace and free love to all synthetics and organics of the universe).
refusal, shepard is rescuded from blown up hulk and revived from catatonic state at great cost to allies.

[Zenyattaa]

I don't know how I feel about the ending.

The horrendously low quality of the original ending was mind boggling . It felt incomplete...so very incomplete.. like they shipped a product that could have been epic if they delayed its release by a few more months.

Rather than acknowledge that, Bioware coined a new phrase in Pop Culture. "Artistic integrity."
That phase left such a bitter taste in my mouth..that its colored my perceptions of the endings.

Rather than invest the time in the game to see the new endings, I watched them on Youtube.

Had they been in game originally I might not have such hard feelings towards bioware. They were not great, but a far cry from the awful mess that shipped with the game..

For the record I never cared if Shepard lived or died.I always figured he would sacrifice himself at the end in some way. Heros get remembered but Legends never die. He became a legend through his actions. I digress.

What should've ended with a bang, ended with one giant WTF?

Only after what I can assume was a PR nightmare from hell, BW released an extended cut ending. Yay? Great! Only....I can't seem to -care- about it. The love I once had for the series is dead. No amount of placating can undo the cold arrogance of a select few involved. As if I was too stupid to comprehend the deeper meaning behind an ending that, originally made no sense.

Would I feel differently had the content been there from the word go. Probably. What I'll remember the series for now, isn't an epic close to an amazing journey. Its stupid things like the star-baby, Artistic Integrity, three different colors of explosions and a calculated PR move by giving us content that SHOULD'VE been in the game from the start.

[TheRealJayDee]

I've finished the EC version of the finale with my canon Shepard, and yes, it is an improvement. Thing is, that's not hard, because the original endings were unbelievably bad. What we have now is the least I would've expected of the endings to begin with. I don't like the endings at all, but the way they are presented since the EC make them sorta bearable. I still prefer my favourite fan fiction over this by far, because it surpasses the game in every aspect besides being playable and written for the game by Bioware writers.

Funny btw how the simple further explanation of the endings required some things to be significantly changed. Guess they had to make these alterations to transform their artistic vision into something lesser minds could comprehend.

All in all the EC really is too little, too late to restore any of my previous trust and good-will towards Bioware. The state in which ME3 was released, the whole PR and communication with the 'artistic vision' stuff and everything, and the EMS/SP affair made sure of that.

I did, however, for the first time since my only playthrough, start a new game, to try if I can find some enjoyment now that I know it leads to a somehow tolerably presented ending. Made it to Mars so far, will have to see if I make it further in the next few days.

So in the end I can't join the people saying "Thank you so much Bioware, you did a really great job on the EC! Can't wait to buy moar DLC", but have to say "Well, Bioware, it's noted that you did your job. Pity it took you so long. And who the hell was responsible for handling the EMS issue? That was beyond embarassing".

Modifié par TheRealJayDee, 29 juin 2012 - 02:14 .

[WhiteKnyght]

Zenyattaa wrote...

I don't know how I feel about the ending.

The horrendously low quality of the original ending was mind boggling . It felt incomplete...so very incomplete.. like they shipped a product that could have been epic if they delayed its release by a few more months.

Rather than acknowledge that, Bioware coined a new phrase in Pop Culture. "Artistic integrity."
That phase left such a bitter taste in my mouth..that its colored my perceptions of the endings.

Rather than invest the time in the game to see the new endings, I watched them on Youtube.

Had they been in game originally I might not have such hard feelings towards bioware. They were not great, but a far cry from the awful mess that shipped with the game..

For the record I never cared if Shepard lived or died.I always figured he would sacrifice himself at the end in some way. Heros get remembered but Legends never die. He became a legend through his actions. I digress.

What should've ended with a bang, ended with one giant WTF?

Only after what I can assume was a PR nightmare from hell, BW released an extended cut ending. Yay? Great! Only....I can't seem to -care- about it. The love I once had for the series is dead. No amount of placating can undo the cold arrogance of a select few involved. As if I was too stupid to comprehend the deeper meaning behind an ending that, originally made no sense.

Would I feel differently had the content been there from the word go. Probably. What I'll remember the series for now, isn't an epic close to an amazing journey. Its stupid things like the star-baby, Artistic Integrity, three different colors of explosions and a calculated PR move by giving us content that SHOULD'VE been in the game from the start.

Shows your ignorance. The concept "Artistic Integrity" existed long before ME3 was made!

Also if you're truly done with ME, go trade your games so they can be sold to someone who can aprecciate them.

Or just get over it and enjoy the free 1825 GB of content that Bioware took the time to delay more important DLC for the sole purpose of pleasing people like you!

[Biokiipper]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Zenyattaa wrote...

I don't know how I feel about the ending.

The horrendously low quality of the original ending was mind boggling . It felt incomplete...so very incomplete.. like they shipped a product that could have been epic if they delayed its release by a few more months.

Rather than acknowledge that, Bioware coined a new phrase in Pop Culture. "Artistic integrity."
That phase left such a bitter taste in my mouth..that its colored my perceptions of the endings.

Rather than invest the time in the game to see the new endings, I watched them on Youtube.

Had they been in game originally I might not have such hard feelings towards bioware. They were not great, but a far cry from the awful mess that shipped with the game..

For the record I never cared if Shepard lived or died.I always figured he would sacrifice himself at the end in some way. Heros get remembered but Legends never die. He became a legend through his actions. I digress.

What should've ended with a bang, ended with one giant WTF?

Only after what I can assume was a PR nightmare from hell, BW released an extended cut ending. Yay? Great! Only....I can't seem to -care- about it. The love I once had for the series is dead. No amount of placating can undo the cold arrogance of a select few involved. As if I was too stupid to comprehend the deeper meaning behind an ending that, originally made no sense.

Would I feel differently had the content been there from the word go. Probably. What I'll remember the series for now, isn't an epic close to an amazing journey. Its stupid things like the star-baby, Artistic Integrity, three different colors of explosions and a calculated PR move by giving us content that SHOULD'VE been in the game from the start.

Shows your ignorance. The concept "Artistic Integrity" existed long before ME3 was made!

Also if you're truly done with ME, go trade your games so they can be sold to someone who can aprecciate them.

Or just get over it and enjoy the free 1825 GB of content that Bioware took the time to delay more important DLC for the sole purpose of pleasing people like you!

Thats true. BIOWARE showed they care about us and is serious about theirs projects and staff to support their decisions. They really improved the ending and I really apreciated the new DLC. They got my trust and Im still a BIOWARE fan. After that DLC, I feel that I dont regret buying the game before release.

[Snowraptor]

Im greatfull for me3, i love it, i enjoy it, i enjoyed the EC dlc also, infact i enjoyed all the me dlc. I was realy into the ending, i thought the indoctrination theory was what they were going for, i thought it was genious, i thought how hard could it be to have the indoctrination theory? Well guess i was wrong i mean it is still a possiblity but it looks like it is an extremely low one. I mean, i guess in my mind i can pretend it is, i still always choose to destroy reapers, i could give two craps about geth and edi, i will never love a machine. No matter how much dialogue you give it, its your own work. Thats my problem, i know its a sci fi and the synthetics are learning all this human emotion but i think from the real world, i can never see myself feeling sympathy for my computer just because it can talk. And even if it did speak, and that it would portray emotions it didnt learn these it was Programmed to say these things, its just electricity and plastic and metal and everything else a computer is. Now im way off topic.

EC was good, but the endings didnt change, and what needed to change was nothing, they just had to ad Indoctrination Theory and it would have been much better but whatever, life moves on, and soon i will be long dead, and the game will have no impact on me after that.

[greggm2000]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Shows your ignorance. The concept "Artistic Integrity" existed long before ME3 was made!

Or just get over it and enjoy the free 1825 GB of content that Bioware took the time to delay more important DLC for the sole purpose of pleasing people like you!

Me, I'm thankful for the EC, I feel it's an adequate (and emotionally moving) end to a trilogy. Do I feel I got my money's worth, if we factor in the EC? Yes. But it's also true that Bioware have lost a lot of goodwill through this whole process, and much of it they're not going to get back, EC or no, because of how badly the original ending was written, and how they've handled the whole mess, and continue to handle it. So, I do thank Bioware and appreciate the hard work that they've done and the experience they've given me... I just wish things had been different.

"Artistic Integrity" though... that's a pair of words that ruffle my feathers. It's all too often used as an excuse to push bad ideas and bad implementations of things. It's used as a defense, when really, it's not a defense at all. I want to say more,  but this thread isn't the place for that discussion, though if you want to start a new one up and get into it, I'm game.

[greggm2000]

Snowraptor wrote...
... I will never love a machine. No matter how much dialogue you give it, its your own work. Thats my problem, i know its a sci fi and the synthetics are learning all this human emotion but i think from the real world, i can never see myself feeling sympathy for my computer just because it can talk. And even if it did speak, and that it would portray emotions it didnt learn these it was Programmed to say these things, its just electricity and plastic and metal and everything else a computer is. Now im way off topic.

Another great side topic, I'll just add here that part of what the ME series explores is "what is a person", and can machines fill that role. Can a machine BE a person. Clearly the creators of the ME series believe that's so, and I agree with them. As to the actuality of it, we just don't know yet. But the series does give us ways to look at the issue and the possible consequences... science fiction at its best. The ME series has handled it very very well for the most part, and I have to applaud them for it. Say what you will about the elements of the ending that the EC presents, it reminds us* of what we might find when we finally get to the stars

(* check out Saberhagen's Berserker series. You'll see the similarities. I'm sure it was a big inspiration for Bioware's writers, too)

[JamesSavoy]

As a gamer who values choice and additional content in my favorite games, I just want to applaud the hard work that Bioware put into this franchise and is continuing to put into it. I refuse to watch the youtube extended cuts, I'm taking Bioware's advice and replaying from the raid on Illusive Man. More DLC coming? Great, I'll gladly pay for it too. More Reapers, more misadventures of large falling objects, and more opportunities to bump into old friends or meet some new ones! Bring it on. Decisions were made and now we got 2 gigs of additional content (not counting the epic multi-player packs) free. I love Bioware's idea of customer service, but I'm willing to fund those artists and story-tellers for more.

[Aravius]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Zenyattaa wrote...

I don't know how I feel about the ending.

The horrendously low quality of the original ending was mind boggling . It felt incomplete...so very incomplete.. like they shipped a product that could have been epic if they delayed its release by a few more months.

Rather than acknowledge that, Bioware coined a new phrase in Pop Culture. "Artistic integrity."
That phase left such a bitter taste in my mouth..that its colored my perceptions of the endings.

Rather than invest the time in the game to see the new endings, I watched them on Youtube.

Had they been in game originally I might not have such hard feelings towards bioware. They were not great, but a far cry from the awful mess that shipped with the game..

For the record I never cared if Shepard lived or died.I always figured he would sacrifice himself at the end in some way. Heros get remembered but Legends never die. He became a legend through his actions. I digress.

What should've ended with a bang, ended with one giant WTF?

Only after what I can assume was a PR nightmare from hell, BW released an extended cut ending. Yay? Great! Only....I can't seem to -care- about it. The love I once had for the series is dead. No amount of placating can undo the cold arrogance of a select few involved. As if I was too stupid to comprehend the deeper meaning behind an ending that, originally made no sense.

Would I feel differently had the content been there from the word go. Probably. What I'll remember the series for now, isn't an epic close to an amazing journey. Its stupid things like the star-baby, Artistic Integrity, three different colors of explosions and a calculated PR move by giving us content that SHOULD'VE been in the game from the start.

Shows your ignorance. The concept "Artistic Integrity" existed long before ME3 was made!

Also if you're truly done with ME, go trade your games so they can be sold to someone who can aprecciate them.

Or just get over it and enjoy the free 1825 GB of content that Bioware took the time to delay more important DLC for the sole purpose of pleasing people like you!

That is a little snippy.

Obviously artistic integrity has been around forever, but in my mind it was the utter failure of IGN selling out and overusing the term in they're puppet reviews.

I appreciate Bioware trying to further explain the endings for us, but I agree with Zenyatta that it's hard to get the taste of the first endings out of your mouth. Another member of our forum stated that all Bioware has done is to polish a turd. I would not go that far, but I will say I was one of the customers that was let down by the original endings, and maybe...maybe that has made it difficult for me to enjoy the EC as much as you did.  I won't trade in my games like you suggest, I'll just enjoy them for what they are, and substitute fan fiction for my dream ending in which Shepard dies saving us all from the Reapers, on her own terms.

[ronmiester]

I was waiting and hoping beyong hope and praying that Bioware, which has created IMO several great games over the years, would be able to come to their senses and give us a proper ending to the game.

[silver6kraid]

After completing the extended cut and crying my eyes out (happy tears) I want to just extend my gratitude to Bioware. You guys didn't have to do this. Most companies wouldn't, and for whatever it is worth, from me to you as a long time fan of your work, Thank you so much for the extended cut.

[Untonic]

rmpumper wrote...

Well, now we see that BioWare were lying about the EC just like they did with ME3. Remember, they said that they will not change the endings, just explain them? Lies:
- in the original Starbrat says that relays will be destroyed; in EC they cut that out
- in the original the relays are destroyed; in EC they are only damaged
- in the original Joker is running from the blast and the Normandy gets hit and crashes; in EC Joker is just going to some mysterious "rendezvous point" and the Normandy does not suffer from the blast, therefore does not need to crash land

The Refuse ending is a big "f*ck you" to the fans as it basically means: you lose, ****, now go and choose one of the 3 colors.

The Indoctrination Theory still stands as we can still hear Shepard's voice echoing when the brat is talking, the brat speaks in Harbinger's voice in Refuse option and Shepard in shown breathing in London rubble after the Citadel gets destroyed in Destroy ending.

Very lazy, BioWare. Fans created better endings one weeks after the game was released and it took you months to create this BS?

 Um, there are 3 different colors but they have personality, as for the refuse I thought it was kinda a joke and a consequence. 

 And why go through all this effort, consideration, time, money, and fanbase recognition to create BS endings? Doesn't make any sense, and so do you. 

[Aravius]

Untonic wrote...

rmpumper wrote...

Well, now we see that BioWare were lying about the EC just like they did with ME3. Remember, they said that they will not change the endings, just explain them? Lies:
- in the original Starbrat says that relays will be destroyed; in EC they cut that out
- in the original the relays are destroyed; in EC they are only damaged
- in the original Joker is running from the blast and the Normandy gets hit and crashes; in EC Joker is just going to some mysterious "rendezvous point" and the Normandy does not suffer from the blast, therefore does not need to crash land

The Refuse ending is a big "f*ck you" to the fans as it basically means: you lose, ****, now go and choose one of the 3 colors.

The Indoctrination Theory still stands as we can still hear Shepard's voice echoing when the brat is talking, the brat speaks in Harbinger's voice in Refuse option and Shepard in shown breathing in London rubble after the Citadel gets destroyed in Destroy ending.

Very lazy, BioWare. Fans created better endings one weeks after the game was released and it took you months to create this BS?

 Um, there are 3 different colors but they have personality, as for the refuse I thought it was kinda a joke and a consequence. 

 And why go through all this effort, consideration, time, money, and fanbase recognition to create BS endings? Doesn't make any sense, and so do you. 

I didn't take the refuse ending as a joke or a consequence. I took it as an ending where I could allow my imagination, or what I have read in fan fiction, to take over. There is so much to imagine with the refusal. After experiencing all of the choices, it will now be my only choice. I don't want a color, I just want to tell the Starboy to ............

[Dubbs2]

Just finished replaying with the "synthesis" ending and I've got to say - Nice Job Guys!!!!!

[longlun]

Anyone ever remember their final year of high school, where they had one last class that they need a certain grade for in order to get into the university/college program that they wanted to get into, and then end up getting something like 23% on their grade and so they have to take summer school and just barely get the required grade there, but in the end you really do end up going to the university/college program that you wanted?

That run-on sentence is how I feel about the extended cut. It was satisfying, but it did not blow me away like I hoped it would.  Just enough to make me love BW again, but not enough to pretend the first ending never happened.

But hey, it was free. I'll take it.  Now amaze with a new game and take my money!

Modifié par longlun, 29 juin 2012 - 05:59 .

[augmented shephard]

RiddlerU wrote...

Just finished with EC one time. Well, it certainly fits some things together better than they were before, but I still don't get what do those almost two gigabytes of 1s and 0s of this DLC consist of. There's not so much CGs and surely VO and still images don't take that much...

I believe that the download is so big because of all the different variables. For example every squad mate has a 'goodbye' scene, and that changes based on whether they are the players LI. The epilogue pictures are very variable too, aswell as the new refusal ending.

P.S Refusal was a fan request not an insult!

[mercury96]

the ec was actually good

[Raydrone]

the EC was awesome....but refusal ending...manhn!!!!please please bioware let us have extreme victory in that ending...please...if we have all of it...MAN I WOULD PAY FOR THAT DLC

[Ancia]

I would like to thank you, Bioware. For the last few years your Mass Effect games have given me so much joy and pleasure mixed with many emotions and bittersweet feelings. As a person who grew up playing Baldur's Gates, Torment and other brilliant old cRPGs I had lost hope for good RPGs nowadays but you restored it By giving us EC you restored even more of my hope for the better tomorrow of RPGs I know it sounds a little pompous.. but  I don't really care Thank you once again, I'll always believe that you're doing the best games!

Modifié par Ancia, 29 juin 2012 - 11:15 .

[crazyaz]

In the words of Private L. Jenkins, That was awesome.

[VaLkyR_Anubis]

Can't complain about the Extended Cut! The new ending is just breathtaking and hell I love it! In the past, the ending was not that bad, but kinda confusing and things were not that clear, but now everything got much much much better! The entire ending is so alive and emotional!

Damn, I cried again when I enjoyed the Extended Cut. Could not resist! And after that, sleeping was such a pain in the ass, because I didn't get the ending out of my mind. Anyway, thank you so very much BioWare, everything what you have done so far, in case of Mass Effect Universe, is just incredibly beautiful! Keep it up and hell I want more!!!

[Cristinell]

EC made an improvement to ME3 but i can't help but to think that there is something fishy with this dlc i mean think about it the sudden change of voice of the star kid leaves me with a big WTH!!! And because of that i can't help but to think of the indoctrination theory or are they just toying with us  ???!!!

Modifié par Cristinell, 29 juin 2012 - 01:13 .

[johnj1979]

The Extended Cut just doesn't do it for me, yeah we find out how the crew get onto the ship and what happens after the battle for Earth, but it's that "Star Child" he seem to raise more questions about the Reapers than it answers. Would kill them to put one paragon ending into the game because lets face all of the ending are what a paragon Shepard is meant to be fighting against

I would have liked if it could of addressed the other plot holes in the game and not just the ending because I would love to know why the events of ME 1 and 2 are pointless in ME 3