187 réponses à ce sujet

[usctrojanbulldog]

-Event-Horizon- wrote...

ZombieGambit wrote...

Right, because Tactical Cloak automatically makes you a god on Gold. Skill doesn't matter, just equip an Infiltrator and win.

Pretty much, all i have to do is stand in the middle of a room, shoot and win, easy as that

That's a load and you know it.

[Pugz82]

ntrisley wrote...

Rocket launchers make Gold too easy.

I vote we nerf rocket launchers!

nerf the rocket glitchers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Pugz82]

ntrisley wrote...

Also, I should add this statement.

Gold isn't challenging. It's laborious.

There's a mistaken idea that it presents a "challenge". There is nothing unique to the difficulty level that you have to do beyond the other difficulties.
The enemies just have more health/defenses and damage.

What that means is there's an artificial perception of "ease" for performing upon these higher difficulty levels.
If Infiltrators are one of the few classes which can perform upon this more laborious levels of difficulty, there is something wrong with the other classes. classes should not be relegated to specific difficulty levels without certain combinations of gear/consumables/weapons.

Truth

[kaotician]

The OP's whole argument is facile in the extreme.

If we are to take the logic of the OP's post, namely that a certain weapon and a certain power make the game easier somehow, then if you take away that certain weapon and that certain power, if your argument is true, all that you'll do is have another weapon and another power as No.1 choices.

Which is to say, if the perception is true that there's best powers and best weapons, and it's not how you play your choices that matter - then there'll simply be new best weapons and new best powers instead.

In short, to argue by analogy, take off the top of a mountain, and what you'll find is there's another top to the mountain. So what then? Nerf the next one as well? And so on and so on, until all we've got left is that we spawn into a game with just a pair of jockey shorts by way of armour and some harsh language by way of a weapon to use.

Modifié par kaotician, 22 juin 2012 - 04:23 .

[Pugz82]

My last game had no Infil's and the dude with the highest score was a QME with over 130k points...nerf him...NERF HIM!!!!!!

[InfamousResult]

ntrisley wrote...

There's a mistaken idea that it presents a "challenge". There is nothing unique to the difficulty level that you have to do beyond the other difficulties.
The enemies just have more health/defenses and damage.

By this logic, anybody who can beat Bronze should be able to beat Gold if they just aren't lazy.

Obviously, that's not the case.

The sheer number of enemies, the increased rate of special enemies, and the amount of power / length of time it requires to kill each enemy individually in which case they have more time to surround you and/or become a problem, does make it more difficult.

[Tankcommander]

Pugz82 wrote...

LOL ok dude. Infiltrators in the hands of "good" people at this game are deadly, the rest of the people who use them suck balls at gold.

People who already suck with that class will now suck even more. btw I had double his score in wave 8...but yes, Infil's are so OP.

[Antaresss]

InfamousResult wrote...

Bad players don't make a class not OP.

The class is OP. It makes Gold easier than the other classes. While there are people who can use other classes better, and there are people who can't use the Infiltrator well, it doesn't change that key aspect. That's why people flock to the Infiltrator class- because it is inherently more powerful, and inherently easier.

Yes. Easier than classes that auto-target enemies. That's saying something.

Just pay attention how a guy plays when you are dead and you observe a random Infiltrator. Really very few people are op with it. I know it doesn't make sense from the start but when you realize one simple fact, all starts to make sense. This fact is that most of the people in the ME3 community are more experienced in RPG games than FPS games and to be OP with the infiltrator means having big experience in FPS with sniper rifles. Ask  the players and see if they think they are op with the infiltrator. They don't need it nerfed.

[InfamousResult]

Antaresss wrote...

Really very few people are op with it.

And this changes the fact that the class itself is OP.. How?

I'm sorry, but the majority of the playerbase "not being OP" doesn't mean that one class needs to be held up above the other classes. If those people can only use the Infiltrator to win in Gold lobbies, and even then they lose, then chances are that they're playing the wrong difficulty anyway.

The power needs to be rebalanced.

[ntrisley]

InfamousResult wrote...

ntrisley wrote...

There's a mistaken idea that it presents a "challenge". There is nothing unique to the difficulty level that you have to do beyond the other difficulties.
The enemies just have more health/defenses and damage.

By this logic, anybody who can beat Bronze should be able to beat Gold if they just aren't lazy.

Obviously, that's not the case.

Is it? I mean, is it really?

The simple answer is that when one reaches a certain amount of gear/classes available to you and you get in with a group which knows what they're doing--you can very easily beat Gold.

There are quite a few people, I'd assume, who don't enjoying playing on Gold because of the fact that people take it so bloody seriously.

The sheer number of enemies, the increased rate of special enemies, and the amount of power / length of time it requires to kill each enemy individually in which case they have more time to surround you and/or become a problem, does make it more difficult.

Again.

False difficulty.

The sheer number of enemies does not "make it more difficult". The trash still dies just as easy if you're headshotting them.

The increased rate of special enemies means that you're going to use things like grenades/rockets more freely.

That doesn't "make things more difficult". That makes things more "time consuming".

If you're playing with a group which is actively communicating, it's not hard at all to play on Gold.

[tMc Tallgeese]

The high percentage of infiltrators is due to its versatility. An infiltrator kills, revives, grabs objectives and gives the team a high powered precision strike option. Tactical cloak is an essential tool of the infiltrator's arsenal and despite many player's complaints, it is not overpowered.

Tactical cloak's reputation is biased because of the way that most non-infiltrators view it's buffing to the sniper damage. In the same respect, you could argue that combat drones, Geth turrets, hunter mode, adrenaline rush, grenades, and ballistic blades, biotic charge/nova and stasis are all over-powering in the right hands. I've spent a lot of time in each of the classes and have found that each of them have at least one build that can unleash an unstoppable wave of destruction. Should each of them be "rebalanced" because I can find them to be over-powering?

I realize that many cry out for the infiltrator to be nerfed, but I have a different suggestion, give each class a power buff specific to a weapon class. Instead of only offering a weight reduction, give the classes a boost to weapon damage equal to 15-20%. This gives all classes a power that many find they are lacking and allows the infiltrator community to remain as it is.

Adept - Pistol
Soldier - ALL WEAPONS 
Engineer - Shotgun/SMG
Sentinel - Assault Rifle/Pistol
Vanguard - Shotgun/Pistol

I would like to thank BioWare for considering the community's input.

[ToToRoTY]

You really have to nerf every single thing in the game to make gold impossible?
Higher win rate, more credits. You don't like credits, you don't need to play.

[Antaresss]

InfamousResult wrote...

Antaresss wrote...

Really very few people are op with it.

And this changes the fact that the class itself is OP.. How?

I'm sorry, but the majority of the playerbase "not being OP" doesn't mean that one class needs to be held up above the other classes. If those people can only use the Infiltrator to win in Gold lobbies, and even then they lose, then chances are that they're playing the wrong difficulty anyway.

The power needs to be rebalanced.

Sorry, I don't really follow you. I thought the idea of the thread author is that Tac cloak needs nerfing because everyone who plays as Infiltrator is bored because Infiltrator is too imba and everything is easy for them, no? I think I made my point why that is not true. I can't say I understand your point.

Modifié par Antaresss, 22 juin 2012 - 04:45 .

[nyadnar]

Infiltrator is currently a crutch class that discourages teamwork. Something needs to change.

[InfamousResult]

ToToRoTY wrote...

You really have to nerf every single thing in the game to make gold impossible?
Higher win rate, more credits. You don't like credits, you don't need to play.

Sweet hyperbole, bro.

Infiltrator is not "every single thing".

Gold is not "impossible" with other classes.

[sp33dd34m0n]

It doesnt get nerfed because its OP. It gets nerfed because of all the cry babies here. And imo you all suck in this game. Thats why you ask for nerfs.

[RamsenC]

Can we at least wait until we see the changes before freaking out? I'm guessing they will just change cloak to make you choose between utility and damage instead of being able to have it all.

[InfamousResult]

sp33dd34m0n wrote...

you all suck

hurr hurr no u

[deaddecoy]

tMc Tallgeese wrote...

I realize that many cry out for the infiltrator to be nerfed, but I have a different suggestion, give each class a power buff specific to a weapon class. Instead of only offering a weight reduction, give the classes a boost to weapon damage equal to 15-20%. This gives all classes a power that many find they are lacking and allows the infiltrator community to remain as it is.

Adept - Pistol
Soldier - ALL WEAPONS 
Engineer - Shotgun/SMG
Sentinel - Assault Rifle/Pistol
Vanguard - Shotgun/Pistol

I would like to thank BioWare for considering the community's input.

The challenge with this is that infiltrators would still benefit from buffing certain weapons, regardless of weight reduction, due to TCs mechanics. The weapons that fall into this category are one-shot high damage ones. Infiltrator's don't get quite the benefit out of automatic weapons, such as ARs. You don't see many good infiltrators rocking a geth plasma pistol or harrier. 

Also, as noted by a previous poster, the challenge with gold is that it is somewhat laborious. Enemies have more hit points and more specials spawn. This emphasizes the need to deal spike damage as opposed to crowd control. Therefore, infiltrators, adepts, and the occaisional hurricane sentinal are favored. 

[millerm277]

nyadnar wrote...

Infiltrator is currently a crutch class that discourages teamwork. Something needs to change.

No it isn't. TC doesn't discourage teamwork at all, a infiltrator using TC properly contributes massively to the team, as they are the only class that can go save other players who've gotten separated from the group/died in a bad spot/are pinned down on the other side of the map, etc.

[Creston918]

I'd love to play at least ONE match with this furious horde of Infiltrators that makes Gold "too easy." Just ONE game, before they get nerfed. Anyone? Bueller? Anyone? Because I've yet to get an Infiltrator in my team on Gold that makes it too easy. For that matter, I've only had a few Infiltrators in my team on Gold who helped us actually make it to extraction. Where are these mythological Chimerae who utterly destroy Gold by themselves??

Adepts, otoh, make Gold a cakewalk against Reapers. Especially if it's a Reave/Warp team. That murders everything before it ever has a chance to do something.

So up for the first week in July: All adepts will be nerfed, as they make Gold too easy. No more Biotic Explosions.

Then, with the top two options having been reduced, they will "take a look" at Vorcha and Kroguards, because they can actually take more damage and live than other classes. Clearly, that's a sign that the class is terribly overpowered.

So for the second week of July, Vorcha's regeneration will be cut by 90%, and the Kroguard loses Charge.

After that, people will flock to Human Soldiers, because of the shield regen of Adrenaline. That's then obviously too overpowered, and so for the third week of july, etc etc etc.

This will keep going on until these elite 10 or 15 players, who play only for the "challenge" on Gold, can finally have a Gold game where they feel like it's still hard. You know the ones I'm talking about, it's the guys that post videos of them playing solo Gold with a female Quarian Engineer with a cup of tea and a blunt pair of scissors as their weapon. Because the game MUST be balanced based on their desire to have a challenging game in Gold.

Meanwhile, the 99.99999% of other players who aren't as good will just have to go back to playing Bronze, I guess. Because God forbid we'd have a class that's viable on Gold. :innocent:

[ntrisley]

nyadnar wrote...

Infiltrator is currently a crutch class that discourages teamwork. Something needs to change.

Er no.

The playerbase discourages teamwork. The majority of PUGs you get into aren't about "teamwork"--they're about topping scoreboards while still getting their credits.

And if either part is not accomplished, they blame it on their teammates doing X/Y which prevented it.

[alayyubi]

ntrisley wrote...

nyadnar wrote...

Infiltrator is currently a crutch class that discourages teamwork. Something needs to change.

Er no.

The playerbase discourages teamwork. The majority of PUGs you get into aren't about "teamwork"--they're about topping scoreboards while still getting their credits.

And if either part is not accomplished, they blame it on their teammates doing X/Y which prevented it.

Agree. I play GI on Gold majority of the time, so I switched to Sentinel for the heck of it today. I got dropped to 3rd in the score, but woot, the credit wasn't that much difference then when I rank 1st playing GI. Why can't people accept that you can play different role with different classes - for example when I play Sentinel, drawing out the fire while the Infiltrator shoot the enemies to oblivion. It actually feel good for a change to swap role.

We don't need more nerfing, we need more team players and feature to help foster team play - in game chat, emote feature like high five, consummable sharing, and maybe even weapon trading ?

I actually stopped playing with Random on Gold last week. Too much waste on consummables to folks who continue to not know when to cover flanks and when to shoot the BIG BAD enemies. 

[Lawli]

problem with design currently is whether to balance with organization, planning and communication vs a complete box of unknowns and no teamwork. the typical pug falls into the latter whereas a premade makes full use of the former. there will be no even breakpoint. you either get premades finding it decently challenging and pugging neigh impossible or the inverse of pugs scraping by and premades facerolling. unless they have better metrics for tracking player skill and group people accordingly its never goign to work out nciely for everyone. that being said im a proponent of sometimes leave crap well enough alone. sure its broke but poking it isnt going to unbreak it either. the better design goal is to bring the underplayed classes up to better viability than to touch the infiltrator/tc.

[IAMREALITY]

Completely absurd and faulty premise. You're talking about maybe 1% or less of all players. For the VAST majority of players gold is anything but easy, tc or not. And that's a fact, not some "hey, I want attention too so I'm gonna start a thread with exaggerated premise rooting from my irrational bias so that I can laugh like a gradeschooler as I sit at my computer and watch the replies roll in!" false on its face statement.