187 réponses à ce sujet

[Lawli]

nyadnar wrote...

Infiltrator is currently a crutch class that discourages teamwork. Something needs to change.

some pugs arent going to have teamwork regardless. not everyone has or chooses to use mics. same goes for consumables. you cant force teamwork and you cant rely on it either. secondly a lot of people play multiplayer games as an interactive single player experience that occasionaly intersects and enmeshes with others - MMOs are a huge example.  yes you can group up but what % of the time are you grouped while lvling? its why so many MMOs use the 1 player model for the leveling experience now vs the old i need a party to lvl model - because some people desire the minimimal amount of human interaction in a multiplayer environment. and a suprising amount of people dont have mics - which leads to a complete breakdown of teamwork for this game. the lack of quick emote directions is also a hinderance for the micless.

[Miniditka77]

ntrisley wrote...

InfamousResult wrote...

ntrisley wrote...

There's a mistaken idea that it presents a "challenge". There is nothing unique to the difficulty level that you have to do beyond the other difficulties.
The enemies just have more health/defenses and damage.

By this logic, anybody who can beat Bronze should be able to beat Gold if they just aren't lazy.

Obviously, that's not the case.

Is it? I mean, is it really?

The simple answer is that when one reaches a certain amount of gear/classes available to you and you get in with a group which knows what they're doing--you can very easily beat Gold.

There are quite a few people, I'd assume, who don't enjoying playing on Gold because of the fact that people take it so bloody seriously.

The sheer number of enemies, the increased rate of special enemies, and the amount of power / length of time it requires to kill each enemy individually in which case they have more time to surround you and/or become a problem, does make it more difficult.

Again.

False difficulty.

The sheer number of enemies does not "make it more difficult". The trash still dies just as easy if you're headshotting them.

The increased rate of special enemies means that you're going to use things like grenades/rockets more freely.

That doesn't "make things more difficult". That makes things more "time consuming".

If you're playing with a group which is actively communicating, it's not hard at all to play on Gold.

I think you need to look up what "hard" means in the dictionary.

If I have to move 10 boxes, it's more "laborious" than if I have to move 2 boxes.  My skill level doesn't matter at all, I just have to do more work to move the 10 boxes, which makes it more laborious.

Gold is harder than Silver or Bronze, because it requires more skill.  If the only thing you had to do on Gold was kill more enemies with more HP than Silver or Bronze, then you could say it is more laborious.  But you're ignoring the fact that the enemies are shooting back at you.  People don't fail Gold because they didn't kill all the enemies, they fail Gold because the enemies killed them first.  That's what makes Gold harder.

[KableLudbolt]

So I don't know what's going on here... do people actually play randoms and expect to be the best player every time? Is this internet e-peen envy? It's a co-op game, I don't recall them buffing TC, so it's been this way since launch... it's now suddenly OP?

Did someone find out they're not special little snow flakes because more people are playing gold?

Cry some moar babies!

[Josh.de]

Creston918 wrote...

I'd love to play at least ONE match with this furious horde of Infiltrators that makes Gold "too easy." Just ONE game, before they get nerfed. Anyone? Bueller? Anyone? Because I've yet to get an Infiltrator in my team on Gold that makes it too easy. For that matter, I've only had a few Infiltrators in my team on Gold who helped us actually make it to extraction. Where are these mythological Chimerae who utterly destroy Gold by themselves??

Adepts, otoh, make Gold a cakewalk against Reapers. Especially if it's a Reave/Warp team. That murders everything before it ever has a chance to do something.

So up for the first week in July: All adepts will be nerfed, as they make Gold too easy. No more Biotic Explosions.

Then, with the top two options having been reduced, they will "take a look" at Vorcha and Kroguards, because they can actually take more damage and live than other classes. Clearly, that's a sign that the class is terribly overpowered.

So for the second week of July, Vorcha's regeneration will be cut by 90%, and the Kroguard loses Charge.

After that, people will flock to Human Soldiers, because of the shield regen of Adrenaline. That's then obviously too overpowered, and so for the third week of july, etc etc etc.

This will keep going on until these elite 10 or 15 players, who play only for the "challenge" on Gold, can finally have a Gold game where they feel like it's still hard. You know the ones I'm talking about, it's the guys that post videos of them playing solo Gold with a female Quarian Engineer with a cup of tea and a blunt pair of scissors as their weapon. Because the game MUST be balanced based on their desire to have a challenging game in Gold.

Meanwhile, the 99.99999% of other players who aren't as good will just have to go back to playing Bronze, I guess. Because God forbid we'd have a class that's viable on Gold. :innocent:

Thanks, thats exactly what I think about the whole nerfing thing.

[Cloaking_Thane]

You know what else is OP and makes gold easy? 4 Adepts

You know what else is OP and makes Gold easy? FB Glacier

You know what else is OP and makes Gold easy? Camping Spawns

You know what else is OP and makes Gold easy? Good players

etc etc

[Vaneke]

Mendelevosa wrote...

 Near invisibility

first try playing infiltrator, before making untrue claims.

[Josh.de]

Mendelevosa wrote...

Gold was not made for infiltrators to blow through it with little difficulty. Gold is meant to be very challenging for all classes, including infiltrators. Near invisibility and a 130% bonus damage rating voids the challenge that gold is supposed to bring. People argue that they only use infiltrators on gold because they are very gold viable. But that is just it. No class is supposed to be very effective on gold. Way too many people play as infiltrators on gold which already shows how imbalanced the classes are. This difficulty is for those who want a challenge, not for those who desire to speedrun through gold for credits.

Also, people argue that all classes should be buffed to the same level as infiltrators. There is one problem with that, which I expressed in the above paragraph. If all classes get buffed to the infiltrator's level, then gold will become too easy not just for infiltrators, but for all the other classes as well. Gold would end up being a joke just to be used for credit farming. 


Conclusively, the nerf to tactical cloak can possibly make gold to be the challenge that it should. Arguing for a booost for all classes to be gold viable is like asking Bioware to buff all classes on single player to make insanity playthroughs a breeze.

It seems to me you need a challenge.

You could go with a level 1 infiltrator play gold and good is it for you, there you have your chalIenge. Otherwise I can´t "see" your problem with any infiltrator.

Or is it because you can´t get a higher score with any other class than an infiltrator? If this is the case you should go play silver matches or even better maybe bronze, until you beat any infiltrators in score with any other given class.

The infiltrator in his actual state is just a piece of a team, he can lead score, yes, but often adepts overscore any given infiltrators, e.g..

Yesterday I just made this: picked an infiltrator lvl 1 and went gold and it was a good game, bit hard to kill "things", but thats just what I wanted to see, maybe you should do the same,so gold won´t be too easy for you  

[Tim_H]

Yeah, playing infiltrator is fine until I get swarmed by Geth faster than I can reload and aim. My best class is engineer.

[Mendelevosa]

Vaneke wrote...

Mendelevosa wrote...

 Near invisibility

first try playing infiltrator, before making untrue claims.

You see that word I just bolded and underlined? Near as in some enemies can still see you depending on your distance from them. 

First try understanding what I'm stating, before making statements... ASSUMING!

[Kyerea]

Mendelevosa wrote...

Gold was not made for infiltrators to blow through it with little difficulty. Gold is meant to be very challenging for all classes, including infiltrators. Near invisibility and a 130% bonus damage rating voids the challenge that gold is supposed to bring. People argue that they only use infiltrators on gold because they are very gold viable. But that is just it. No class is supposed to be very effective on gold. Way too many people play as infiltrators on gold which already shows how imbalanced the classes are. This difficulty is for those who want a challenge, not for those who desire to speedrun through gold for credits.

Also, people argue that all classes should be buffed to the same level as infiltrators. There is one problem with that, which I expressed in the above paragraph. If all classes get buffed to the infiltrator's level, then gold will become too easy not just for infiltrators, but for all the other classes as well. Gold would end up being a joke just to be used for credit farming. 


Conclusively, the nerf to tactical cloak can possibly make gold to be the challenge that it should. Arguing for a booost for all classes to be gold viable is like asking Bioware to buff all classes on single player to make insanity playthroughs a breeze.

TC doesn't deserve a nerf because it "makes Gold too easy". That's your opinion, not fact. I've seen Infiltrator-only Gold runs go FUBAR after Wave 6. The mode itself needs to be re-designed if it's "too easy" (which obviously isn't the case, because most Gold games created are lost before Wave 10). I extract on most of my random Gold games on a daily basis. If you have a reliable team (or at least one to two people who know what the f*ck they're doing), you'll win. Hell, in 60% of those games, we have no Infiltrator present, or it's a ****ty one. A good Team in general = a win on Gold. People are going to master the difficulty of a game after having months of playtime with it, it's natural as people become better and more experienced players.

What we need is a new mode.

Modifié par Kyerea, 22 juin 2012 - 07:34 .

[Beerfish]

Feneckus wrote...

Pugz82 wrote...

LOL ok dude. Infiltrators in the hands of "good" people at this game are deadly, the rest of the people who use them suck balls at gold.

That's irrelevant. Those who suck with infiltrators would probably be ten times worse with a sentinel/vanguard/soldier. Infiltrators are the only reason they can play on gold because they're so OP they allow you to play at a level that's not yours.

I've seen plenty of people score like 40k, then next game they switch to an infiltrator and they magically end up with 100+k.

The bolded part is totally incorrect.

[deaddecoy]

Mendelevosa wrote...

Vaneke wrote...

Mendelevosa wrote...

 Near invisibility

first try playing infiltrator, before making untrue claims.

You see that word I just bolded and underlined? Near as in some enemies can still see you depending on your distance from them. 

First try understanding what I'm stating, before making statements... ASSUMING!

Lately, I've been having Prime's shoot me across the map as if cloak didn't matter. And, yes, I was fully cloaked outside of their line of sight beforehand.

Modifié par deaddecoy, 22 juin 2012 - 08:15 .

[Princess Rolf]

Make it an easy fix, and don´t allow the same class in the lobby. Different classes, would make a team-co-op-game in a matter of seconds.

[arrveetee]

You know what's overpowered?  All this whining crying out for nerfs.

Seriously, what's next?  Stasis bubble because it can omgz freeze more than one enemy at a time? Grenades because they can disable multiple targets at the same time? Krogan Vanguard's charge? There's always going to be something someone has to complain about - the fact that it's being humoured is so disappointing.

My favourite class is Adept - and I and others have outscored Infiltrators tons of times.  Every class has the same versatility as an Infiltrator.  They can all kill, the can all handle objectives, they can all revive.  I think some of you just have to get over the fact that some players are more skilled at this game than you are and so, are going to do better. 

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

You know what else is OP and makes gold easy? 4 Adepts

You know what else is OP and makes Gold easy? FB Glacier

You know what else is OP and makes Gold easy? Camping Spawns

You know what else is OP and makes Gold easy? Good players

etc etc

This.  Well said.

[Fang92]

Princess Rolf wrote...

Make it an easy fix, and don´t allow the same class in the lobby. Different classes, would make a team-co-op-game in a matter of seconds.

arbitrary limits are bad.

[Anarchy_99]

Infiltrators are OP ?
Are they really ?
How many games have you played as Infiltrator and how easy did you find it, seriously what is your skill level if you find an infiltrator on gold is equivalent to god mode. People need to stop whining about every little thing and get over themselves. There are those of us who like to relax while playing gold myself included, I find I can comfortably hold my own while discussing random things with my team mates not even vexed about the game or the enemy's because the team works well together.

Then on the opposite end of the scale you have those people who just play to simply play and refuse to allow others to enjoy themselves and I am willing to gamble that those of you who are whining like little girls are the one's who take this so seriously.

Games are meant to be enjoyed but when people whine about everything they think is detracting from what they consider to be a challenging mode they put up a complaint about it and pester the community until someone high up finally caves and gives in it forces the average gamer to reconsider the notion of joining the online gaming community.

[darkblade]

People dont seem to understand if infiltrators are nerfed, the biotics will take the next hit from the nerf bat.

Dare you to find something easier than picking an AJ and buddying up with a HS during a gold game.

Pretty soon, guns are going to be the most powerful way to attack...like in ME2.

[nicethugbert]

Pugz82 wrote...

LOL ok dude. Infiltrators in the hands of "good" people at this game are deadly, the rest of the people who use them suck balls at gold. I just had one on my team who was completely useless. I got instakilled by a phantom on wave 8 and watched him the rest of the round...he was running around with a geth smg...a GETH SMG. WTF...being chased by an atlas, 2 phantoms, a engineer, and 3 nemises...why not use a rocket, oh no...I will use my smg. pew pew pew

People who already suck with that class will now suck even more. btw I had double his score in wave 8...but yes, Infil's are so OP.

If not for TC, he would have died sooner than you, like he should have.

[nicethugbert]

darkblade wrote...

People dont seem to understand if infiltrators are nerfed, the biotics will take the next hit from the nerf bat.

Dare you to find something easier than picking an AJ and buddying up with a HS during a gold game.

Pretty soon, guns are going to be the most powerful way to attack...like in ME2.

AJA can't tank a sync kill.  AJAs get forced out of their bubble where they are about as squishy as the next person.

[Buckapocka]

Kronner wrote...

People who think that Infiltrators are significantly better than other classes should learn to play the game.

Yes, Cloak is the best overall power in the game. However, you can match/come close to Infiltrator's damage output/team contribution, but that requires you to be a good player, so it is not surprising that BSN just cries and does nothing else.

Double nice!

darkblade wrote...

People dont seem to understand if infiltrators are nerfed, the biotics will take the next hit from the nerf bat.

Dare you to find something easier than picking an AJ and buddying up with a HS during a gold game.

Pretty soon, guns are going to be the most powerful way to attack...like in ME2.

I'm afraid so.

[nicethugbert]

Anarchy_99 wrote...

I find I can comfortably hold my own while discussing random things with my team mates not even vexed about the game or the enemy's because the team works well together.

That's almost the very definition of easy.   The only wrong about it is "because the team works well together".  No, it's easy because TC lets you dump aggro and deal massive damage frequently.

[HinDae]

I routinely match Infils with my Salarian Engineer, Even the dick move ones with Geth infil and Krysae X sometimes.

Infils wouldnt be nearly as good without Someone else soaking up Aggro for them, i've learned that the hard way.

[saxybeast418]

Mendelevosa wrote...

Gold was not made for infiltrators to blow through it with little difficulty. Gold is meant to be very challenging for all classes, including infiltrators. Near invisibility and a 130% bonus damage rating voids the challenge that gold is supposed to bring. People argue that they only use infiltrators on gold because they are very gold viable. But that is just it. No class is supposed to be very effective on gold. Way too many people play as infiltrators on gold which already shows how imbalanced the classes are. This difficulty is for those who want a challenge, not for those who desire to speedrun through gold for credits.

Also, people argue that all classes should be buffed to the same level as infiltrators. There is one problem with that, which I expressed in the above paragraph. If all classes get buffed to the infiltrator's level, then gold will become too easy not just for infiltrators, but for all the other classes as well. Gold would end up being a joke just to be used for credit farming. 


Conclusively, the nerf to tactical cloak can possibly make gold to be the challenge that it should. Arguing for a booost for all classes to be gold viable is like asking Bioware to buff all classes on single player to make insanity playthroughs a breeze.

NOTE: This is just an opinion of mine which is based on what I believe the developers are thinking in regards to the power. No need to flame.

Here's the problem with your reasoning: your conclusion relies upon the assumption that tactical cloak allows infiltrators on gold to "blow through it with little difficulty." I don't know what game you've been playing, but playing the infiltrator does not automatically make Gold easy.

The issue from Bioware's end isn't that Gold is too easy, but rather that percentage of Infiltrators in Gold matches is disproportionately high. Whenever they feel like Gold has gotten "too easy," they just buff the enemies.

[nicethugbert]

saxybeast418 wrote...

Mendelevosa wrote...

Gold was not made for infiltrators to blow through it with little difficulty. Gold is meant to be very challenging for all classes, including infiltrators. Near invisibility and a 130% bonus damage rating voids the challenge that gold is supposed to bring. People argue that they only use infiltrators on gold because they are very gold viable. But that is just it. No class is supposed to be very effective on gold. Way too many people play as infiltrators on gold which already shows how imbalanced the classes are. This difficulty is for those who want a challenge, not for those who desire to speedrun through gold for credits.

Also, people argue that all classes should be buffed to the same level as infiltrators. There is one problem with that, which I expressed in the above paragraph. If all classes get buffed to the infiltrator's level, then gold will become too easy not just for infiltrators, but for all the other classes as well. Gold would end up being a joke just to be used for credit farming. 


Conclusively, the nerf to tactical cloak can possibly make gold to be the challenge that it should. Arguing for a booost for all classes to be gold viable is like asking Bioware to buff all classes on single player to make insanity playthroughs a breeze.

NOTE: This is just an opinion of mine which is based on what I believe the developers are thinking in regards to the power. No need to flame.

Here's the problem with your reasoning: your conclusion relies upon the assumption that tactical cloak allows infiltrators on gold to "blow through it with little difficulty." I don't know what game you've been playing, but playing the infiltrator does not automatically make Gold easy.

The issue from Bioware's end isn't that Gold is too easy, but rather that percentage of Infiltrators in Gold matches is disproportionately high. Whenever they feel like Gold has gotten "too easy," they just buff the enemies.

I find Infiltratrator the easiest class to play by a wide margin.  I find it harder to play non-infiltrators the more infiltrators there are in the team.

[sliverofamoon]

Josh.de wrote...

Creston918 wrote...

I'd love to play at least ONE match with this furious horde of Infiltrators that makes Gold "too easy." Just ONE game, before they get nerfed. Anyone? Bueller? Anyone? Because I've yet to get an Infiltrator in my team on Gold that makes it too easy. For that matter, I've only had a few Infiltrators in my team on Gold who helped us actually make it to extraction. Where are these mythological Chimerae who utterly destroy Gold by themselves??

Adepts, otoh, make Gold a cakewalk against Reapers. Especially if it's a Reave/Warp team. That murders everything before it ever has a chance to do something.

So up for the first week in July: All adepts will be nerfed, as they make Gold too easy. No more Biotic Explosions.

Then, with the top two options having been reduced, they will "take a look" at Vorcha and Kroguards, because they can actually take more damage and live than other classes. Clearly, that's a sign that the class is terribly overpowered.

So for the second week of July, Vorcha's regeneration will be cut by 90%, and the Kroguard loses Charge.

After that, people will flock to Human Soldiers, because of the shield regen of Adrenaline. That's then obviously too overpowered, and so for the third week of july, etc etc etc.

This will keep going on until these elite 10 or 15 players, who play only for the "challenge" on Gold, can finally have a Gold game where they feel like it's still hard. You know the ones I'm talking about, it's the guys that post videos of them playing solo Gold with a female Quarian Engineer with a cup of tea and a blunt pair of scissors as their weapon. Because the game MUST be balanced based on their desire to have a challenging game in Gold.

Meanwhile, the 99.99999% of other players who aren't as good will just have to go back to playing Bronze, I guess. Because God forbid we'd have a class that's viable on Gold. :innocent:

Thanks, thats exactly what I think about the whole nerfing thing.

I agree........ to an extent. The only problem is that as long as TC is even IN the game, it's the one that everyone is going to cry about nerfing. It's just going to be a slippery slope, until everything is so balanced, that all you see is X class, with X build, with X weapon.... whatever the min/maxers find works best, and gets the biggest score. They will find it, post it, and it'll be pure gold, get nerfed............ it's the never-ending battle for "Balance" that has made so many other games boring and un-appealing.