187 réponses à ce sujet

[SHARXTREME]

No. The infiltrators, nor any other class does not need to be nerfed.
On gold, which I play almost exclusively, infiltrators actually really help the team in the right hands.
Infiltrators are NOT by default snipers, nor campers, actually they are better mid-close range on the move and from flanking positions in the midst of enemy lines, killing, reviving, doing objectives. That is infiltration. with any gun. .

Thing that I have noticed is that Adepts are far more easier to play then any other class. Every power is auto-aimed, so they can leech the teams efort well, but they are almost useless when team goes down, or there is objective to do with a lot of enemies left because they are constantly runing AWAY from the enemies, They can't revive, nor do the exposed objective. Then you watch constant reave-reave-reave- cluster nades for biotic explosions and occasional random shooting with some weak ass handgun,
For biotic explosions I don't care, they are.cheap and slow method, where mixed group of heavy damage dealers does gold challenge much faster and with more fun. As a team.

Also, when I enter a lobby with 2 infiltrators and some other class, i will never take the 3rd infiltrator because that's just stupid. But there are some stupid infiltrators out there, no doubt, like in the game hour ago, where geth infiltrator let me, another Vorcha Sentinel and human INF bleed out on 4th relay activation in midle of Reactor while he was busy picking on Atlas and Guardians a mile away from objective. Then he killed few weak Cerberus enemies and Phantoms with his fully charged Geth Plasma Shotgun X, only to be slaughtered by phantom while he cloaked. That is an overpowered infiltrator, because with all that power he couldnt do ****, not even move from 3rd spot while we were down. I should have used Medigel but I couldn't believe that 2 infiltrators wouldn't come to revive or do the objective on gold..

[iHorizons]

Gold is still challenging with infiltrators not everyone can do it. I can't believe your complaining about something that's make getting credits and xp easier that's isnt cheating.

[El3ment239]

 People need to realize this game isnt made for just your happiness and yours alone.

No class or gun is overpowered or easy to use in the hands of an average player. Most of the people that claim a gun is OP or a class or ability is are normally above average gamers. Why should bioware have to change the game for these hardcore gamers when the average players deserve the same rights. If youre losing the difficulty challenge yourself, use a not so good weapon on a less used class. Dont ask for changes to the game making it harder and less fun for average players just because YOU an above average players think its easy.

 All of these topics are selfish if you ask me, its their first MP on ME and imo they did a great job. Just play the game, challenge yourself in other ways and quit screaming out orders "Buff this, nerf that" and remember just because something is easy for you doesnt mean its easy for everyone, ive seen pleanty of gi not pull great scores and come in dead last. 

[JLoco11]

Bioware can nerf whatever they want... doesn't change the fact that I am overpowered and they can never nerf me!

[Lord Rosario]

El3ment239 wrote...

 People need to realize this game isnt made for just your happiness and yours alone.

No class or gun is overpowered or easy to use in the hands of an average player. Most of the people that claim a gun is OP or a class or ability is are normally above average gamers. Why should bioware have to change the game for these hardcore gamers when the average players deserve the same rights. If youre losing the difficulty challenge yourself, use a not so good weapon on a less used class. Dont ask for changes to the game making it harder and less fun for average players just because YOU an above average players think its easy.

 All of these topics are selfish if you ask me, its their first MP on ME and imo they did a great job. Just play the game, challenge yourself in other ways and quit screaming out orders "Buff this, nerf that" and remember just because something is easy for you doesnt mean its easy for everyone, ive seen pleanty of gi not pull great scores and come in dead last. 

Average player with average character on an average dificulty should do fine. Average player with a specific class should not be any better than the any other average character. Newbies should play on bronze. Then as they get better, perhaps they can work their way up to silver using the new guns, classes, levels, and skills they gain while playing. Gold should be a coordinated team effort of good players. Don't think that is very selfish.

[ol MISAKA lo]

Oh....reading these TC threads is going to give me brain cancer...I don't know why I even do it.

[GallowsPole]

Fact: Whatever they nerf, if they nerf, will not change the role of the Infiltrator. That is a lame reason to not nerf it. You'll still be able to walk up with your claymores under cloak and blow someone away.
You will still be able to cloak and do the objectives. Yadda yadda, etc etc

[xcrunr1647]

/thread

[Dharvy]

Lord Rosario wrote...

El3ment239 wrote...

 People need to realize this game isnt made for just your happiness and yours alone.

No class or gun is overpowered or easy to use in the hands of an average player. Most of the people that claim a gun is OP or a class or ability is are normally above average gamers. Why should bioware have to change the game for these hardcore gamers when the average players deserve the same rights. If youre losing the difficulty challenge yourself, use a not so good weapon on a less used class. Dont ask for changes to the game making it harder and less fun for average players just because YOU an above average players think its easy.

 All of these topics are selfish if you ask me, its their first MP on ME and imo they did a great job. Just play the game, challenge yourself in other ways and quit screaming out orders "Buff this, nerf that" and remember just because something is easy for you doesnt mean its easy for everyone, ive seen pleanty of gi not pull great scores and come in dead last. 

Average player with average character on an average dificulty should do fine. Average player with a specific class should not be any better than the any other average character. Newbies should play on bronze. Then as they get better, perhaps they can work their way up to silver using the new guns, classes, levels, and skills they gain while playing. Gold should be a coordinated team effort of good players. Don't think that is very selfish.

Is that really your contention? That a player whom you feel can't do gold unless they play an infiltrator is playing outside of your perspective difficulty and you're upset, mad, or simply don't like the fact that a class than can cloak or do above average damage allows a player to do a higher difficulty? I've had seen this idiotic reasoning throughout many nerf infiltrator threads. And are you saying that this is your contention as well? That TC allows players to venture farther than what you deem they should be? And so it is too good a skill and needs to be weaker? Is this "average" player invading your gold game with their less than perfect gameplay skills as an infiltrator and is somehow bringing you down? 

People join gold with the class they feel they play the best. An infiltrator is not an I Win button. It do not make gold easier. It may make gold a little bit easier for someone who is more skilled with said class, sure. Just because someone can't bring one of the subpar classes into gold and can do it with an infiltrator don't mean the infiltrator is some how OP or broken. Each class sort of have a different style of play to be effective and not everyone can adapt to some of the gameplay style of certain classes. The infiltrator may be an easier class to play because they cloak, go invisible, and now have time to put up shots. 

A truly skilled player make Gold look easy with nearly any class. The infiltrator gameplay style maybe easier, the staying back cloaking and sniping, but that don't mean the class is OP because many find the gameplay style of being about to cloaking and shooting things easier.

[WaffleCrab]

Why i find this post funny is. A.) they say the nerf will happen. B.) i outscore most infiltrators when i play gold as a support build on engineer or sentinel, and have little no difficulties staying alive better than they do. C.) you dont need inf's for gold farming if you got a good friends team, most of the time, its faster too. D.) If they nerf TC. what are people going to complain next about? Nerf the AR? Nerf the tech armor or barrier? Nerf the sentries/drones?

It all boils down to wether or not you are a good player with something you choose or not, and your gear. I keep saying this, and i say it again. There are no bad builds, weapons or skills or characters. there are only people who either know how to play the game well, badly or godly.

[Melanie24]

kaotician wrote...

The OP's whole argument is facile in the extreme.

If we are to take the logic of the OP's post, namely that a certain weapon and a certain power make the game easier somehow, then if you take away that certain weapon and that certain power, if your argument is true, all that you'll do is have another weapon and another power as No.1 choices.

Which is to say, if the perception is true that there's best powers and best weapons, and it's not how you play your choices that matter - then there'll simply be new best weapons and new best powers instead.

In short, to argue by analogy, take off the top of a mountain, and what you'll find is there's another top to the mountain. So what then? Nerf the next one as well? And so on and so on, until all we've got left is that we spawn into a game with just a pair of jockey shorts by way of armour and some harsh language by way of a weapon to use.

[RedSteel23]

I just can't wait for this class to get nerfed, then see what the next class will be that gets nerfed. It's not going to end with this class. People will flock to the next best thing and dominate with that, then people will cry, it will get nerfed. Infiltrator is strong I admit it. I love the class because I like to rain down destruction on enemies, I like to do the objectives so my team mates can handle the enemies, and I like controlling the field with getting into new positions. Is it overpowered? Yeah, a little. But so is the ability to crowd control with an Adept, or in the hands of someone good, dominate with the human Vanguard. You can split hairs all you want, but when this class is nerfed to the point of not being worth it anymore, there will be another class. Me? I am going to keep playing the game and having fun with whatever character I feel like using at the moment. If someone has fun playing a Soldier, cool. You have fun with an Infiltrator? Cool. Use whatever you want and have fun, you are welcome in my gold lobbies. People care too much about score and it will eventually ruin the MP.

[Melanie24]

Honestly all these infiltrator nerf discussions make me less enjoy playing as one. Used to play infiltrator cause sniping was fun, now I think about score /OP and stuff. When you score too much your OP but when its too little you must be really bad..

[iDevour]

nyadnar wrote...

Infiltrator is currently a crutch class that discourages teamwork. Something needs to change.

*facepalm*

[Dharvy]

Melanie24 wrote...

Honestly all these infiltrator nerf discussions make me less enjoy playing as one. Used to play infiltrator cause sniping was fun, now I think about score /OP and stuff. When you score too much your OP but when its too little you must be really bad..

You know whats funny, I've been going through the same thing. I love playing my infiltrator above all other classes, mainly because I like rogue/assassin classes but all this OP talk make me sometimes cautious when playing or thinking about being OP and unfair to my team. Do people really not like when an infiltrator dominate the score board? do they get angry if they seem to kills all the things? I know one time I had my QFI with my Claymore and I was on the front lines one shotting all the smalls and this turian next to me was getting upset because it seemed everything his SMG touched my Claymore finished and he seem to no be able to get a kill in edgewise. And I was just trying to kill everything like we(the team) are supposed to. Now I sometimes wonder do people get angry if an infiltrator kills so much or do so much damage or top the score board 40k+ more than everyone else? I know if I'm playing a non-infiltrator I don't mind, I just do my job and kill what I can, support what I can. Now, some times if I'm just dominating the scoreboard, sort of wiping everything, mainly with my MQI and GI I slow down a bit and let the team get the finishing blows off the bosses, primes or Atlasses, I don't play with Banshees and kill them as quickly as I can. But when I play with my other classes and dominate the scoreboard I don't feel that way. All this Infiltrator is OP talk is sort of interferring with my enjoyment of the class.

[neteng101]

Dharvy wrote...

All this Infiltrator is OP talk is sort of interferring with my enjoyment of the class.

That's the best part about this game - enjoying that you're playing it.  Its something so many folks here miss.

Whatever happens, I will say I've truly enjoyed playing the shotgun GI.  One of the very best and finest creations in ME3 MP...  so so so much fun.  I hope BW realizes what a great class they made with infiltrators and they really should keep it such...  if only more of the other classes/races offered as much fun gameplay, the game will never get old.

[Lividliver]

IMO,the reason why so many people like to plays infils is because cloak is probably the most useful ability among all.

It:

1)Gives us enough time to break from cover and line up our sights for a headshot.classes without cloak don't have that luxury of breaking cover and taking their time to align their shots.

2)Enables us to weave in and out amid a whole mess of enemies undetected(provided we don't bump into any) to revive a downed teamate espcially if their body is amid the aforementioned mess. classes without cloak that attempt to do that will usually get downed under a hail of concentrated fire.

3)For capture objectives(assuming we are the only ones doing it), it allows us to cap an objective undected for about 3/4 of the time required needed for one.Non-cloak classes will usually have at least some enemies bearing down on them while they are capping due to the omniscient AI knowing exactly where all non-cloaked players are at all times.

Add a generous boost to damage plus accuracy+wallhack(hunter mode) and we have a very attractive package.

I don't know what Bioware is planning to do with TC but I hope they do not mess with the duration.A TC that does not last more than a few running steps is pointless and we might as well scrap the infiltrator as a class entirely since that term holds no meaning anymore.

However,my gut feeling is that the most drastic change they might implement is to strip all damage bonuses to TC and just make it a ability purely for cloaking only.

[Mr_Adlib]

The truth of the matter is, as many have already stated in this thread, most infiltrators who enter gold SUCK!

And that's the main problem I have. It has nothing to do with the class itself, its just that many low levels believe that being an infiltrator automatically guarantees you a win. That's absolute garbage. But I hate when I enter a Gold lobby and EVERYBODY wants to be an infiltrator. You never see that with any other class.

Just yesterday, I played Cerberus Gold with a Human Soldier. There was a QMI that was equipped with a goddamn Claymore X, supposedly one of the most overpowered builds in the game, and I outscored him with my Striker X by 16k. This does not in anyway mean he was an incompetent player, but being an infiltrator doesn't make you a god like many tend to believe.

[friedricethem0n]

Agree. TC is not OP. And this is coming from a player who plays almost exclusively adepts and engineers on Gold. I won't touch Infiltrators on Gold. I let the other players do the dirty work of running around during node hacking rounds.

Tactical Cloak is fine as it is. It does what it is supposed to do and I ain't complaining as long as I get my credits at the end of Wave 10.

Wanna know what is really OP? Those damn dudes that wouldn't stop whinning about everything being OP. And the worst part is that Bioware actually listen to those guys and nerf stuff to oblivion.

Any more nerfs and I'll be going back to Modern Warfare 3...

[Lord Rosario]

Dharvy wrote...

Lord Rosario wrote...

El3ment239 wrote...

 People need to realize this game isnt made for just your happiness and yours alone.

No class or gun is overpowered or easy to use in the hands of an average player. Most of the people that claim a gun is OP or a class or ability is are normally above average gamers. Why should bioware have to change the game for these hardcore gamers when the average players deserve the same rights. If youre losing the difficulty challenge yourself, use a not so good weapon on a less used class. Dont ask for changes to the game making it harder and less fun for average players just because YOU an above average players think its easy.

 All of these topics are selfish if you ask me, its their first MP on ME and imo they did a great job. Just play the game, challenge yourself in other ways and quit screaming out orders "Buff this, nerf that" and remember just because something is easy for you doesnt mean its easy for everyone, ive seen pleanty of gi not pull great scores and come in dead last. 

Average player with average character on an average dificulty should do fine. Average player with a specific class should not be any better than the any other average character. Newbies should play on bronze. Then as they get better, perhaps they can work their way up to silver using the new guns, classes, levels, and skills they gain while playing. Gold should be a coordinated team effort of good players. Don't think that is very selfish.

Is that really your contention? That a player whom you feel can't do gold unless they play an infiltrator is playing outside of your perspective difficulty and you're upset, mad, or simply don't like the fact that a class than can cloak or do above average damage allows a player to do a higher difficulty? I've had seen this idiotic reasoning throughout many nerf infiltrator threads. And are you saying that this is your contention as well? That TC allows players to venture farther than what you deem they should be? And so it is too good a skill and needs to be weaker? Is this "average" player invading your gold game with their less than perfect gameplay skills as an infiltrator and is somehow bringing you down? 

People join gold with the class they feel they play the best. An infiltrator is not an I Win button. It do not make gold easier. It may make gold a little bit easier for someone who is more skilled with said class, sure. Just because someone can't bring one of the subpar classes into gold and can do it with an infiltrator don't mean the infiltrator is some how OP or broken. Each class sort of have a different style of play to be effective and not everyone can adapt to some of the gameplay style of certain classes. The infiltrator may be an easier class to play because they cloak, go invisible, and now have time to put up shots. 

A truly skilled player make Gold look easy with nearly any class. The infiltrator gameplay style maybe easier, the staying back cloaking and sniping, but that don't mean the class is OP because many find the gameplay style of being about to cloaking and shooting things easier.

Back up... Where did I say anywhere in my post the word "infiltrator"? All I was stating is that an average player should be able to play at an average level. If they are good enough to work as a team and play gold, great.

If you want my oppinion on the infiltrator, here it is: My oppinion is that Tactical Cloak far outshines any other single ability on any class. It makes the Infiltrator better at everything besides biotics than any other class in their best area and to be entirely honest, no nerf that Bioware would consider would make it any less than that. Sure, it would do a bit less damage, or it's cloak time wouldn't be quite as long, but still, no matter what nerf happens, it will still be a far stronger class than any other.

[Dusen]

What's it matter if the class is OP? It's not like points really matter in this game unless you promote every character every time. As far as I know everyone still recieves the same amount of credits as everyone else. . . also, it matters even less considering that we don't play against each other.

[landylan]

Dusen wrote...

What's it matter if the class is OP? It's not like points really matter in this game unless you promote every character every time. As far as I know everyone still recieves the same amount of credits as everyone else. . . also, it matters even less considering that we don't play against each other.

yea youre right. i dont see why it matters if somethings op. i dont care if they shoot laser beams out of their eyes and burn the whole map and kill every enemy. who really cares? we get the credits right?

this game needs to be balanced based on gold. infiltrators are far too powerful on gold compared to the other classes.

i watch krysae infiltrators score well. then they switch classes.  they are awful.  the krysae infiltrators are becoming more common too. i had one in probably my first five lobbies today.

Modifié par landylan, 26 juin 2012 - 05:02 .

[Lord Rosario]

Dusen wrote...

What's it matter if the class is OP? It's not like points really matter in this game unless you promote every character every time. As far as I know everyone still recieves the same amount of credits as everyone else. . . also, it matters even less considering that we don't play against each other.

Any game, especially a multiplayer game, strives for balance. Even table top adventure games like D&D had to be as balanced as possible.

[InfamousResult]

Dusen wrote...

What's it matter if the class is OP? It's not like points really matter in this game unless you promote every character every time. As far as I know everyone still recieves the same amount of credits as everyone else. . . also, it matters even less considering that we don't play against each other.

I honestly wonder if people come into these threads, and they decide to make THIS exact argument, thinking they're bringing something new to the table. I seriously question what's going through these posters' heads when they start typing. "Oh man, I'm gonna' make those guys look like such jackholes, they're never gonna' see this coming!"

Heh.

[COLZ7R]

There is no point at all trying to talk to a nerffer about this, they are always right, dont care about anyone else because their point is the only valid one and it basically comes down to " you should only play how I think you should!" happens in every online game
you should see them though when their fave class cops it further down the line, the butthurt is brilliant