2621 réponses à ce sujet

[Autolychus]

Finally was able to play it. I was one who did not like the original ending--far too abrupt, too many unanswered questions. This was a great improvement. Thank you.

[CharacterizationFail]

I procrastinated a bit on playing this, but I'm glad I played it. If this had been the original ending to the game I probably wouldn't have complained. I would have been disappointed, but the old ending left me feeling betrayed so disappointed is a pretty huge improvement.

My only problem is that this cut shows how utterly epic this ending could have been if done a bit differently (They should have made it be a victory, through battle or persuasion or both, rather than a multiple choice session). Starbrat actually seems like a very sinister and coldly logical AI this time, now that we know he was created to forge peace between AI and organics. I'll forever be baffled why such amazing writers couldn't take this ending and make it live up to it's potential... but at least now I see the potential where I didn't before.

[BearlyHere]

SonicAF wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

I'm going to say that no choice is paragon. Listen to that speech again. The Shreaper says the person it was knew s/he had to become something greater and talked about the power in control-totally not what a paragon is about. And the scene is scary. The more I listen to it the worse it gets.

Those speeches are different depending on your morality. This means that EC is twice awesome.

I had no intention of playing my paragons, but I might try one of them on control just to see how different the dialog is from the ren ending I saw last night. To me it was creepy, with all his talk of protecting the many and using the many. He seemed like TIM on steroids. Then again, it's such a slog to get across that chamber and up the ramp. It's like the Baatan death march.

Did the reject option too just hoping to empty that pistol into the AI brat. I still think that was a middle finger directed at people who wanted a reject option. It was pretty terrible to see Shep standing there watching the Reapers blow the fleet away as he slowly bleeds out.

Synthesis seemed like god mode, though it's everyone else who ascends according to EDI, though I suppose there's a little bit of Shep in them all.

[Redbelle]

BearlyHere wrote...

SonicAF wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

I'm going to say that no choice is paragon. Listen to that speech again. The Shreaper says the person it was knew s/he had to become something greater and talked about the power in control-totally not what a paragon is about. And the scene is scary. The more I listen to it the worse it gets.

Those speeches are different depending on your morality. This means that EC is twice awesome.

I had no intention of playing my paragons, but I might try one of them on control just to see how different the dialog is from the ren ending I saw last night. To me it was creepy, with all his talk of protecting the many and using the many. He seemed like TIM on steroids. Then again, it's such a slog to get across that chamber and up the ramp. It's like the Baatan death march.

Did the reject option too just hoping to empty that pistol into the AI brat. I still think that was a middle finger directed at people who wanted a reject option. It was pretty terrible to see Shep standing there watching the Reapers blow the fleet away as he slowly bleeds out.

Synthesis seemed like god mode, though it's everyone else who ascends according to EDI, though I suppose there's a little bit of Shep in them all.

This for me is a major problem in the Control ending........ protecting the many.

Remember Star Trek 2 where the needs of the many outweighed the needs of the one? Spock dies to save the ship as he felt duty bound to protect his friends and shipmates when they were in danger.

Then Star Trek 3. Spock is puzzled to discover that his friends went after him US ranger 'no one get's left behind' style because Spocks needs were deemed more important than their own...... even though Kirk's son dies through the process.

There is a time and place for both philosophies. But to hear Shep disregarding individual needs for the greater majority flies in the face of what Shep had the potential to stand for. (heck, he protected the underdog several times in my Paragon playthroughs). If Shep can no longer acknowledge individual rights then, while arguably a better Catalyst than the original, Shep has become a ticking time bomb that will eventually result in something bad happening. For example. Two species get into a territory dispute. Shep steps into mediate. Who wins but the ones that will benefit the most...... and according to Sheps philosphy that will be the side with the most ppl.

In short. Shep's new stance will result in the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. Till the few get pushed so far back that they get desperate and fight back, at which point heck knows what the Shreapers will do.

Perhaps the reason for his new viewpoint is his solitude. He no longer has buddies. He is the Reapers.

That first ST reference was of one man being selfless. The second was of a group of men being selfless. Shep, at control stage has no group and so it is all on him.

Modifié par Redbelle, 30 juin 2012 - 09:25 .

[3DandBeyond]

@Redbelle,
This is one problem among many that I have with Control. I'll restate it. Someone might not like seeing Reapers around when they know they killed billions of people or even one of their children and kept their goo. They may decide to take action and maybe they find a way to destroy some. What does Shreaper do? The tone of Control was ominous and very non-paragon. We have no clue what caused the kid to become un-hinged, and some of the collective minds within the reaper consciousness (Shreaper is definitely not just Shepard) may be really bad. We know they have been harvesting for millions of years and we don't know who or what they have "ingested".

If someone attacks and destroys a reaper, we don't know for sure that that idea of protecting the "many" means just people and can assume it doesn't since there are synthetics that are alive as the reapers are now a part of the galaxy. That means Shreaper may be in the position of actually using reapers to kill people who attack them. Defending reapers against people. Now, sure that might not happen, but honestly what makes more sense-people that welcome reapers with open arms or a lot of people that want them destroyed, no matter what?

And as I recall all we really know is Shepard's memories, experiences, and thoughts remain, but we have no idea as to heart and conscience and "soul".

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 30 juin 2012 - 10:14 .

[TheRealMithril]

Autolychus wrote...

Finally was able to play it. I was one who did not like the original ending--far too abrupt, too many unanswered questions. This was a great improvement. Thank you.

The thing is, this should have been there to begin with. Had they put the extra effort in from the very start this whole affair could have been avoided. It's a better ending but still not a very good one.

Sadly they missed the 'wide open door' with the indoc theory. They could have had the greatest ending of all time, and even taken credit for it because: 'we planned it all along'.

Thanks for the great ride, sadly it crashed in the end.

Modifié par TheRealMithril, 30 juin 2012 - 11:20 .

[Redbelle]

3DandBeyond wrote...

@Redbelle,
This is one problem among many that I have with Control. I'll restate it. Someone might not like seeing Reapers around when they know they killed billions of people or even one of their children and kept their goo. They may decide to take action and maybe they find a way to destroy some. What does Shreaper do? The tone of Control was ominous and very non-paragon. We have no clue what caused the kid to become un-hinged, and some of the collective minds within the reaper consciousness (Shreaper is definitely not just Shepard) may be really bad. We know they have been harvesting for millions of years and we don't know who or what they have "ingested".

If someone attacks and destroys a reaper, we don't know for sure that that idea of protecting the "many" means just people and can assume it doesn't since there are synthetics that are alive as the reapers are now a part of the galaxy. That means Shreaper may be in the position of actually using reapers to kill people who attack them. Defending reapers against people. Now, sure that might not happen, but honestly what makes more sense-people that welcome reapers with open arms or a lot of people that want them destroyed, no matter what?

And as I recall all we really know is Shepard's memories, experiences, and thoughts remain, but we have no idea as to heart and conscience and "soul".

Me either, can we get the ultra extended edition to clarify this point........ (BW if your reading I'm joking. I'm not sure I could take the unresolved 3 month debate this would generate).

That said I am holding out that they do something more with that ending, like let us take down Harbinger if we reject them.......

I played Wing Commander 4 long ago and if you fluff all your missions but keep getting back alive you eventually take part in the last stand of Earth. You ultimately lose but the fighting is some of the most intense and the waves just keep coming till you finally meet the mothership which blows you away. Only for a cutscene to appear where you cave in and your enemy has you vaporised becasue they think your a sissy......... Or they disembowel you becasue you are worthy of such an honour...........

I mean, I know our cycle has to die and all if we reject them, but to not let us get in our final licks and take out as many as possible till the inevitable end?............... I keep saying this but the most bittersweet ending I've played recently was the horde wave of Halo Reach. The Spartan fights like a boss till numbers overwhelm it. But it fights on even as you lose sight of it under the mass of bodies............. That's a hero and that's waht Shepard should have had the opportunity to do.

Modifié par Redbelle, 30 juin 2012 - 11:10 .

[Jamesui]

I think the EC rectified a lot of what was wrong with the game. Or, at least, my faith in BW is restored to the point that I'd buy their games at release again.

With one caveat.

From the moment I finished, I suspected a motivating force in the similarity of the endings is to leave a common canon for Mass Effect 4. I do not want a Mass Effect 4, especially as the original promise that we'd have divergent endings was due to ME3's being the end of the series. If we end up with a fourth game that assumes a canon or conveniently follows from any permutation of player choices (barring a game set so far in the future to be ME in name only), then the confirmation of my suspicions will make me write off BioWare as a loss.

That said, at least I can play the trilogy again.

[TheRealMithril]

'If' they make ME4 with shep, that would be like the biggest head flip of the century. But honestly, I can't see that happening. More likely they'd make a new series of what happens afterwards. But let's hope it's not a universe with green glowing eyed freaks. Beyond that I agree, at least the game is playable again.

[3DandBeyond]

Redbelle wrote...


Me either, can we get the ultra extended edition to clarify this point........ (BW if your reading I'm joking. I'm not sure I could take the unresolved 3 month debate this would generate).

That said I am holding out that they do something more with that ending, like let us take down Harbinger if we reject them.......

I played Wing Commander 4 long ago and if you fluff all your missions but keep getting back alive you eventually take part in the last stand of Earth. You ultimately lose but the fighting is some of the most intense and the waves just keep coming till you finally meet the mothership which blows you away. Only for a cutscene to appear where you cave in and your enemy has you vaporised becasue they think your a sissy......... Or they disembowel you becasue you are worthy of such an honour...........

I mean, I know our cycle has to die and all if we reject them, but to not let us get in our final licks and take out as many as possible till the inevitable end?............... I keep saying this but the most bittersweet ending I've played recently was the horde wave of Halo Reach. The Spartan fights like a boss till numbers overwhelm it. But it fights on even as you lose sight of it under the mass of bodies............. That's a hero and that's waht Shepard should have had the opportunity to do.

I loved Wing Commander-that takes me back.  Space games, simulations always were the games for me-the ones I played the most.  Did you ever play an even earlier game-Elite?  There was also a game based on Elite called Privateer.  These seemed to be what WC and a lot of other games were based on, especially all the ore recovery things in ME1 and 2.  They didn't feature much of a story because it was about trading, but the reaper tag things in ME3 were so much like Elite.  I've played so many games to get to ME, which was the pinnacle of gaming for me-combining story and real emotion and character growth. 

I don't know if I can buy anything they make ever again, but if I had a wish it would be that they would forget the nonsense and make a character-driven story that doesn't forget those characters along the way and certainly not at the end.  You don't have to make the ending big and grand and super-intellectual.  You need to make it resonate emotionally. Employ the KISS method-keep it simple, stupid.

And you need to remember who is important in your stories-the triumvirate of VIPs.  The hero (protagonist), the bad guy (antagonist), and the player.  Don't leave any of these people behind.  Be true and fair to the hero, be true and real with the bad guy, and be honest and logical with the player at the end.  Don't forget the story and make sure you finish the story-not some minor insinuated subtle dialog points or codex entries, but the big over-arching story.  And do not forget that if you have your hero fall in love in the game, you need to finish that story as well.

[BWGungan]

I just got around to playing the extended cut, and it is a vast improvement over what was.  I feel that the new ending brings closure that was greatly needed, and I am truly relieved that I can once again reinvest myself in my favourite story ever without feeling completely hollow and betrayed at the end.

I just wish this was the feeling I had when I first finished it.

That being said, it's still not perfect... but at least it's not completely broken in every imaginable way.

Where's a neuralizer when you need one?

Modifié par BWGungan, 01 juillet 2012 - 01:26 .

[BlueStorm83]

--- Back from a weekend getaway.

A problem with the Control ending is that big Shepard Epilogue. The problem is... I thought that I was Shepard? While it goes on, we should be able to pick the dialogue choices. I can understand why we can't- it's an epilogue. But we're supposed to believe that Shepard will continue to be Shepard even without our direct input, which isn't an impossible thing, but then we get a weird middle of the road monologue that's supposed to be appropriate for either Paragon or Renegade Shepards, since there's only the one speech. If they were going to have an un-interactive monologue, it should have been handled by someone other than Shepard. Joker would have done alright. He could have expressed the misgivings about Control that we've all voiced, but, like, described that over time he sees that the Reapers have become like Shepard.

Still don't think it's plausible in the Control ending that people will be willing to have Reapers rebuild things for them; even though they embraced the Geth and even the Rachni, the Reapers have been big and bad for practically all of time.

--- Maybe our monologue at the end could have been the Monologue of a Reaper. Maybe even Harbinger himself. He could go on about how finally after millions of years he isn't being forced to do to others what was forced upon him in the first cycle. He could say that now that Shepard is their leader, they've decided to leave the Galaxy entirely, and find a series of isolated, habitable worlds in another Galaxy where they'll try to recreate the Organic Races whose genetic material is stored within them, and then to fade from existence entirely.

That would be a nice ending, I think. The peoples of our Galaxy being left to their own lives, and the Reapers' first and final act of freedom would be to try and give a future to as many of the destroyed races of their past as they can, before ending it all.

OH, WAIT! I forgot. That's not "thought provoking" and "artistic" enough.

[BlueStorm83]

BWGungan wrote...

I just got around to playing the extended cut, and it is a vast improvement over what was.  I feel that the new ending brings closure that was greatly needed, and I am truly relieved that I can once again reinvest myself in my favourite story ever without feeling completely hollow and betrayed at the end.

I just wish this was the feeling I had when I first finished it.

That being said, it's still not perfect... but at least it's not completely broken in every imaginable way.

Where's a neuralizer when you need one?

---  Isn't that horrible?  That the best GAME in the best SERIES that I (and I'm sure many of you) have ever played ends on a note of "Hooray!  At least it's not completely broken in every imaginable way!"  That's a really sad thing.

[seitani]

www.youtube.com/watch

[KiganMatsuei]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

BWGungan wrote...

I just got around to playing the extended cut, and it is a vast improvement over what was.  I feel that the new ending brings closure that was greatly needed, and I am truly relieved that I can once again reinvest myself in my favourite story ever without feeling completely hollow and betrayed at the end.

I just wish this was the feeling I had when I first finished it.

That being said, it's still not perfect... but at least it's not completely broken in every imaginable way.

Where's a neuralizer when you need one?

---  Isn't that horrible?  That the best GAME in the best SERIES that I (and I'm sure many of you) have ever played ends on a note of "Hooray!  At least it's not completely broken in every imaginable way!"  That's a really sad thing.

It is absolutely terrible. And shameful that Bioware was actually able to create such a level of apathy.

Such devastation created by the original endings that people were an apathetic "I guess it works" when they improved.

But still no ending fitting to this epic trilogy.

Modifié par KiganMatsuei, 01 juillet 2012 - 03:20 .

[3DandBeyond]

KiganMatsuei wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...

BWGungan wrote...

I just got around to playing the extended cut, and it is a vast improvement over what was.  I feel that the new ending brings closure that was greatly needed, and I am truly relieved that I can once again reinvest myself in my favourite story ever without feeling completely hollow and betrayed at the end.

I just wish this was the feeling I had when I first finished it.

That being said, it's still not perfect... but at least it's not completely broken in every imaginable way.

Where's a neuralizer when you need one?

---  Isn't that horrible?  That the best GAME in the best SERIES that I (and I'm sure many of you) have ever played ends on a note of "Hooray!  At least it's not completely broken in every imaginable way!"  That's a really sad thing.

It is absolutely terrible. And shameful that Bioware was actually able to create such a level of apathy.

Such devastation created by the original endings that people were an apathetic "I guess it works" when they improved.

But still no ending fitting to this epic trilogy.

QFT x 2

[BWGungan]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

BWGungan wrote...

I just got around to playing the extended cut, and it is a vast improvement over what was.  I feel that the new ending brings closure that was greatly needed, and I am truly relieved that I can once again reinvest myself in my favourite story ever without feeling completely hollow and betrayed at the end.

I just wish this was the feeling I had when I first finished it.

That being said, it's still not perfect... but at least it's not completely broken in every imaginable way.

Where's a neuralizer when you need one?

---  Isn't that horrible?  That the best GAME in the best SERIES that I (and I'm sure many of you) have ever played ends on a note of "Hooray!  At least it's not completely broken in every imaginable way!"  That's a really sad thing.

At this point I'm happy with the ending.  It provided closure, explained how my girls ended up on the Normandy', its retreat, added a refusal ending which I appreciate, and explained what happened to the races afterwards and didn't vaporize the civilized galaxy.  I also appreciate the extra dialogue with the Catalyst, which explained the origin of the intelligence created by an ancient race to solve a problem which then harvested its own creators... ironic. 

It would have still been better without the Catalyst or the Crucible, but then the whole game would have to be rewritten.  There is a clear discontinuity between the 2nd and 3rd game which started with a deus ex machina and lack of any lessons learned from the Collector base (especially if you saved it).  If you look at the third game as a standalone, a least with the new ending it can stand alone.  With the old ending, the game didn't have an ending at all and looked unfinished, which just made it all the worse when you looked back to the first two games.

Would I have liked to fight an end boss?  Yeah, probably; even Kraatos fought Zeus (again)... but I'd rank that ending below the ME3 extended cut (GoW1 was easily the best in the series too).

So I'm starting the series from ME1 now just to see how I will feel when I see the new ending having the entire series fresh in my mind in an attempt to cement my nostalgia for the uninterrupted series that doesn't include the old endings.

I think the only series' that ever really got it perfect in the end for me was ST:Voyager or ReBoot.  Even Harry Potter fizzled a little and it's my #2 fave of all time.

TLDR version.  I'm happy with the ending now (it addressed my biggest concerns), with the caveat that when I finally get to the new ending having played the entire series continuously, I still feel good about it.

Modifié par BWGungan, 01 juillet 2012 - 04:35 .

[3DandBeyond]

I also see it as leaving a door open to possibilities, but they've rejected that notion. However, credibility must be earned when it's been thoroughly dashed as far as even this one issue is concerned.

For some, in order to fully wrap their head around the notion that Shepard lives, they needed that extra push. As it is, it's a badly burned and bloody torso in rubble. No face, no appendages. A torso.

Never would have thought I'd have any game end like this one, with 4 such endings.

One ending-godhood of the hero who never wanted it, where the bad guys with people goo inside them become the galaxy police and fixit men.
One of molestation or the forced insertion of something within trillions of people's bodies without their consent.
One that seems to state FU to players (as many see it) who reject the awesome endings written. Instant death of hero and trillions of people in the galaxy.
One that seems to be another FU to anyone (also as many see it) that wanted a happy ending FOR A GAME. Hero of over 100 hours of play, 5 years of fandom, many years of in game sacrifice, player's stand in for the game, is left a torso, charred and bloody in a pile of rubble gasping once for air.

Never saw any of this coming. Not my ideal ending FOR A GAME. Never hope to see such abominable themes for endings ever again. Give me big explosions any day over this. Cheesy, yes. This, no.

If I had known this I would have never played these games.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 01 juillet 2012 - 04:25 .

[TheGRITTY]

Just finished beating the game a second time post-EC. First time was Destroy and second time was Synthesis.

I will admit that the endings are still a bit flawed (e.g., what's the real purpose of the stargazer now?) and that they have indeed changed since the original endings (e.g., not only did the mass relays NOT explode, but they are reparable?! Even in the Destroy ending?), but still I'm really happy with what I've seen so far. With the two endings I've seen, I have gotten feelings of closure, happiness, sadness, accomplishment, and even a bit of epic-ness, in the sense that the endings are a bit closer to what this epic trilogy deserved all along.

I appreciated the EC. I enjoyed it and will continue to enjoy it. Thank you, Bioware.

[Redbelle]

3DandBeyond wrote...

I loved Wing Commander-that takes me back.  Space games, simulations always were the games for me-the ones I played the most.  Did you ever play an even earlier game-Elite?  There was also a game based on Elite called Privateer.  These seemed to be what WC and a lot of other games were based on, especially all the ore recovery things in ME1 and 2.  They didn't feature much of a story because it was about trading, but the reaper tag things in ME3 were so much like Elite.  I've played so many games to get to ME, which was the pinnacle of gaming for me-combining story and real emotion and character growth. 

I don't know if I can buy anything they make ever again, but if I had a wish it would be that they would forget the nonsense and make a character-driven story that doesn't forget those characters along the way and certainly not at the end.  You don't have to make the ending big and grand and super-intellectual.  You need to make it resonate emotionally. Employ the KISS method-keep it simple, stupid.

And you need to remember who is important in your stories-the triumvirate of VIPs.  The hero (protagonist), the bad guy (antagonist), and the player.  Don't leave any of these people behind.  Be true and fair to the hero, be true and real with the bad guy, and be honest and logical with the player at the end.  Don't forget the story and make sure you finish the story-not some minor insinuated subtle dialog points or codex entries, but the big over-arching story.  And do not forget that if you have your hero fall in love in the game, you need to finish that story as well.

Never got to play Elite but did play Privateer....... at least I think that ws what it was called. It stared Clive Owen. It seems now to have been the predecessor to the X series.

ME certainly has refined the gameplay choice element inherent in earlier games. Even going so far as to have had an effect on how other hi end games are attempting in to implement such features into their software with degrees of success. (FFXIII-2, still looking at you).

[seitani]

As mentioned somewhere above i don't understand why they had to come up with a "deeper" reason for reapers motives. They were just fine in 1&2 as those brutal machines who just want to destroy, kill and annihilate everything for their unknown reasons now the mystery around them is gone. Remember Sovereign and Harbinger speeches in 1 & Arrival, those were brutal and intimidating.

[Hackrus]

Finally I was able to play this DLC too. It's not so bad, but still... Had animation, when Shepard catch up her breath in ruins of Citadel after choosing to destroy the Reapers. But before that there was an animation, where the Normandy crew was placing Commandr Shepard name on Normandy memorial wall (crew deck - in front of elevator). So I just have to ask: wtf? This extended cut just adds few new unaswered questions ...

[Henkka the Male]

New ending is good. Not excellent.100 times better than the old one.Still would've liked a happy ending, ;(. But I raise my hat for bioware for listening their fans. THANK YOU

[yourmotha]

 Played it and I'm not giving any spoilers but I so wish they had put this in the original ending. Let me say that it is so much better, and I feel like the series of Shepard has actually finished now. I bawled my eyes out as I watched it!

[seitani]

btw guys what are your thoughts of the new synthesis ending, i know its a bit utopistic but it's becoming my favourite of the endings. I hated it before extended cut.
Edit: Maybe i like it because of Tricia Helfer's awesome voice acting;)

Modifié par seitani, 01 juillet 2012 - 08:10 .