2621 réponses à ce sujet

[Ketten]

Crossing my fingers for tuesday. Thank you, BioWare, for at least making this a reality. I'm actually pretty excited now.

[3DandBeyond]

Benchpress610 wrote...

Funny, I thought no matter what kind of business you are in; “the customer is always right” rule is always applicable. Guess Walters/Hudson don’t abide by that principle.

I've worked many a place (including retail, Customer Service, and 911/Emergency/Police/Fire Dispatching services) and that is the mantra.  Yes, there are customers from hell. And some are a detriment to your business, but only if you let them be so.  However, it's impossible to tell the legitimacy of any complaint if you refuse even to talk with your customers and if you do not and will not do so because your feelings are hurt, then you don't need to be in business.  Believe me when I say I have talked to my share of people in my time and as an employee you don't have the right nor the ability to treat customers, even wrong ones, with disdain.  As a business owner, I don't have the luxury to treat them any way but with a sense of decency.  If I allow someone to mistreat my customers, then I don't deserve to be in business either.  And I have a lot of experience in dealing with unhappy people.

I don't say that everyone deserves to be respected, but they need to be treated with respect if you want their money-you need to be decent.  You can never grow too big as a company to not remember those that pay for you to exist.  You don't have to like every customer you have and you don't have to always agree with them, and I'd modify that customer is always right thing to be that you need to treat them as you'd like to be treated.  You start with decency and never stop being decent, even if they are unreasonable.  At some point, you may have to walk away from them or say no to something they want, but no matter what you act decently.  If they are crazy or unreasonable or stealing or the like, well you deal with that, but if they are customers you want to keep, well you treat them right.

I've said it before, I made friends and good customers of people that couldn't get something done that they wanted.  But, the only way you can really do something like that is if you really talk to those customers.  You have to be open and up front and you have to listen, really listen and indicate that you have heard what you were told.

[CuseGirl]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Benchpress610 wrote...
Funny, I thought no matter what kind of business you are in; “the customer is always right” rule is always applicable. Guess Walters/Hudson don’t abide by that principle.

A friend of mine once said that the expression should be "The customer is always right in their own mind."  It's definetely fitting when applied to the ME3 ending controversey.

If you say so. I honestly do believe this is a rare occasion where the customer/consumer is right. The ending clearly makes no sense. And there was no "try before you buy" period for the customer. Yes, there was an expectation of Bioware that this game would make sense and be good enough to play more than twice because at 63 to 85 dollars, the game is too expensive to play once/twice and trade in.

I hate to say this, but Bioware's reaction and refusal to acknowledge in the slightest that the ending is objectively written poorly is cruel treatment of their fanbase. They think it's perfectly OK to charge us that much money for a product that makes no sense and lacks replay ability. I'm just not ok with that. I'll get the EC, see if Shepard can find Miranda. If he can't, I'm trading the game in and I will not buy another Bioware product again.

[Landon7001]

I think the single biggest moment in the history of the series is mr. hudson and mr. walters writing the ending by themselves and not involving the whole team or getting their feedback......and it was a fatal one....

[3DandBeyond]

Geneaux486 wrote...

"The Crucible has changed me"

Moreover, it knows what the Crucible's functions are. Either it knew about them beforehand, or the Crucible interfaced with it and told it. Pick one.

Or he simply scanned it or something.  Like I pointed out before, the Catalyst is incapable of using the thing, so it's highly unlikely that the thing was built intending to have him interface with it. 

Actually, you are quite wrong.  The Catalyst never says he's incapable of using it-he says he needs Shepard to make "it" happen.  The difference being that for some reason he wants Shepard to interface with it-gee, he's wanted Shepard for a long time, though.  And now he gets Shepard to willingly come along?  He sought Shepard's body, he kept targeting Shepard with the Collector Ship.  And with the Crucible he now has Shepard.  Funny.

However, everything you point out is contingent upon the star kid being 100% truthful.  Why would he be?  He never says his reason for his solution (the reapers) has changed.  In fact, he echoes something Harbinger said at the end of the suicide mission-Harbinger said they'd find another way.  The kid has a new solution.

Synthesis as he sees it is the pinnacle of evolution as are the reapers according to Sovereign.  It's funny that when the reapers come back they actually strip the galaxy of everything except the tech they leave lying around in order for organics to develop along a certain path, but the missed the Crucible plans.  In fact, everyone missed them for at least 30 years, even though they'd been digging on Mars all that time.  Harbinger said it-they needed a new way.  The Crucible gave it to them.

Also, amazing that no reaper attacked the Crucible-this big flying turd in space, but Hackett was sure they would.  Harbinger was in fact, right near by and he was un-challenged.  What was he doing?  Taking a break?

[RaenImrahl]

Landon7001 wrote...

I think the single biggest moment in the history of the series is mr. hudson and mr. walters writing the ending by themselves and not involving the whole team or getting their feedback......and it was a fatal one....

This thread is about the Extended Cut.  How exactly is your statement on-topic?

[3DandBeyond]

CuseGirl wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

Benchpress610 wrote...
Funny, I thought no matter what kind of business you are in; “the customer is always right” rule is always applicable. Guess Walters/Hudson don’t abide by that principle.

A friend of mine once said that the expression should be "The customer is always right in their own mind."  It's definetely fitting when applied to the ME3 ending controversey.

If you say so. I honestly do believe this is a rare occasion where the customer/consumer is right. The ending clearly makes no sense. And there was no "try before you buy" period for the customer. Yes, there was an expectation of Bioware that this game would make sense and be good enough to play more than twice because at 63 to 85 dollars, the game is too expensive to play once/twice and trade in.

I hate to say this, but Bioware's reaction and refusal to acknowledge in the slightest that the ending is objectively written poorly is cruel treatment of their fanbase. They think it's perfectly OK to charge us that much money for a product that makes no sense and lacks replay ability. I'm just not ok with that. I'll get the EC, see if Shepard can find Miranda. If he can't, I'm trading the game in and I will not buy another Bioware product again.

The fact that the majority of people that don't like the ending are very specific and actually very much in agreement with what is wrong with it and really really don't like it, as well as the fact that the majority of the people that say they are more pro-enders mostly say things like, "it's ok," "it wasn't too bad," "could be better, but oh well," "it's a game, what did you expect?" and not, "wow, I really loved it-it answered all my questions. Greatest ending ever," really speaks volumes.

Statistically speaking, a percentage of the people at Bioware must see that the ending is bad or they are in denial.  Now because they are not a random sampling of people, the percentage may be a low one, but someone there must have played it and wondered, "WTF."

What worries me from that Joker runs away photo and Hackett's new dialog, is that they might be taking some comments used somewhere by some people and working them in to try and make things fit.  Hackett tells everyone to meet at the rendevous point-well, I hope Joker says something back like, "what about Shepard?"  I hope they explain why they'd meet at the RV point, why they'd think they would need to if they don't even know what the crucible will do.  Apparently, Hackett assumes it's going to cause a big shockwave that will hit the Normandy or something-but what if it was only going to send out a reaper's shut off signal?  Apparently, Hackett has been talking to the writers.

I do hope they make it make sense and Tuesday will tell-I tend to be optimistic, but if this just makes it worse, I hate the thought of it.....

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 24 juin 2012 - 03:40 .

[Landon7001]

RaenImrahl wrote...

Landon7001 wrote...

I think the single biggest moment in the history of the series is mr. hudson and mr. walters writing the ending by themselves and not involving the whole team or getting their feedback......and it was a fatal one....

This thread is about the Extended Cut.  How exactly is your statement on-topic?

that fact is the reason any extended cut was neccessary....and it emerged in my head as I thought about the ec....just kind of flowed from it

[Geneaux486]

3DandBeyond wrote...
Actually, you are quite wrong.

Actually, I'm quite right.  The Catalyst says quite clearly regarding the Crucible's functions, "I can't make them happen."  That's about as straightforward as it gets.

In regards to Bioware changing the ending completely, that would be the worst possible thing they could do.  Why?  Because the conclusion, like it or not, logically follows the rest of the story.  The goal was to use the Crucible, and you spent the entire game collecting assets for it and the assault who's purpose was to get the Crucible in position to fire.  The fact that you get to choose how you use the Crucible?  Follows the theme of choice that's been in all three games.  If Bioware put out a brand new ending it would either be so similar to what we already have that it would be pointless to do, or it would be drastically different and disconnect the ending from the rest of the game.  Furthermore, as much as people claim that everyone agrees on how it should end, everyone's still got their own ideas.  Hell, the fact that so many people want to argue against using the Crucible with the Catalyst demonstrates a lack of awareness of the situation.  It makes no sense for a protagonist with a fully functional brain to argue against using his own weapon (which he was ordered to do at all costs, and given the chance to do at the cost of hundreds if not thousands of lives and countless hours of labor) while people are dying in the space around him. 
In short, it's Bioware's story, so it's their perogative to tell it how they want.  They're doing us a favor by expanding on thier endings, and contrary to what people say, the solution they've chosen could easily improve the ending drastically.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 24 juin 2012 - 04:07 .

[Vilegrim]

RaenImrahl wrote...

Landon7001 wrote...

I think the single biggest moment in the history of the series is mr. hudson and mr. walters writing the ending by themselves and not involving the whole team or getting their feedback......and it was a fatal one....

This thread is about the Extended Cut.  How exactly is your statement on-topic?

It entirely describes why we are in this bind, and the ego that is stopping the ending being a redaction of a call for genocide.

[Landon7001]

most ppl agree on the following: plot holes, what they are, that they were lied to concerning the ending, that the endings lacked in quantity and in variety in the 3 we got as the cut scenes were virtually identical, that the ideas of the endin options given were offensive, that me 2 characters esp. LIs were treated very poorly, that the catalysts logic was circular and made no sense and finally that the fact there is no chance for an ending w/ shep reuniting w/ LI is F'ed up......anything else??

[Landon7001]

Landon7001 wrote...

most ppl agree on the following: plot holes, what they are, that they were lied to concerning the ending, that the endings lacked in quantity and in variety in the 3 we got as the cut scenes were virtually identical, that the ideas of the ending options given were offensive, that me 2 characters esp. LIs were treated very poorly, that the catalysts logic was circular and made no sense, that the catalyt's logic and the endings are contradictory and contadict the themes of the series  and finally that the fact there is no chance for an ending w/ shep reuniting w/ LI is F'ed up......anything else??

[Taboo]

There you go sprouting nonsense again. Where are you getting these facts?

[Landon7001]

Taboo-XX wrote...

There you go sprouting nonsense again. Where are you getting these facts?

From listening to everyone from everywhere from here to all others sites and sources and what their comments are, do your homework, take a look around and listen and stop trying constantly to just be heard yourself....plus its hard not to see all these flaws for a single person objectively, logically looking at them....

[Geneaux486]

Landon7001 wrote...

most ppl agree on the following: plot holes, what they are,

 
What most people lable as "plothole" are simply unanswered questions.

that they were lied to concerning the ending,

 
The statements made regarding the ending had a degree of truth to them, but for the most part they were just typical marketting exagerations to get people to buy the game.  That's just how it goes sometimes, but as a result we'd be owed an apology for the statment long before we'd be owed a brand new ending.

that the endings lacked in quantity and in variety in the 3 we got as the cut scenes were virtually identical,

 
The implications of each, however, were drastically different, and if those implications are touched on and shown in the extended ending (not just which choice we make with the Crucible, but also the outcome of the other big choices we've made in the games), then we will, in fact, get a large variety of differing conclusions.

hat the ideas of the endin options given were offensive,

Only when heavily twisted.
 

that me 2 characters esp. LIs were treated very poorly,

 
Considering there's a chance that most of them would be dead in each playthrough, they actually got a lot of screentime and a lot of importance in the story.

that the catalysts logic was circular and made no sense

 
That's only true if it turns out that synthetics weren't trying to wipe out organics in previous cycles, which as far as the Protheans went, they were.  Again, we could simply be given concrete proof that this conflict did happen in every cycle and the Catalyst's logic would no longer have the potential to be circular.

and finally that the fact there is no chance for an ending w/ shep reuniting w/ LI is F'ed up......anything else??

Well there is the ending where Shepard wakes up at the end.  Good chance of a reunion there.

....plus its hard not to see all these flaws for a single person objectively, logically looking at them....

You're not looking at it objectively.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 24 juin 2012 - 04:06 .

[Taboo]

Landon7001 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

There you go sprouting nonsense again. Where are you getting these facts?

From listening to everyone from everywhere from here to all others sites and sources and what their comments are, do your homework, take a look around and listen and stop trying constantly to just be heard yourself....plus its hard not to see all these flaws for a single person objectively, logically looking at them....

I honestly have no ide what you just saying at all. And for that I apologize.

If you wish to look at the cynics on this site and other news sites for information they cannot possibly have that's okay.

EDIT: Thanks Geneux. So much. You made my night a LOT easier.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 24 juin 2012 - 04:11 .

[Landon7001]

@Geneaux486....you're entitled to your opinion but I gotta call u on your last three there:


concerning me 2 characters possibly being dead-ashley/kaidan could be dead, wrex could be dead, garrus and tali could be dead.....moving on.....

on catalysts logic-they are synthetics killing organics so synthetics wont kill organics, even if other details make it less insulting and more logical its still horrible writing and not compelling or good and just so seems like a horribly derivative and contrived explanation that does not come about naturally and feels like they were looking for some way to explain the reapers and it contadicts other themes and events in me 3 itself...

lastly on shep li reunion-, a 3 second scene of extreme ambiguity w/ shep taking a breath is not what Im referring to, nor is speculating he could maybe get back w. LI in your head....and w/ the info we're given at least pre ec shep is on earth and LI,if not from me 2, is starnded on some planet, no relays....

Modifié par Landon7001, 24 juin 2012 - 04:20 .

[Geneaux486]

[quote]Landon7001 wrote...
concerning me 2 characters possibly being dead-ashley/kaidan could be dead, wrex could be dead, garrus and tali could be dead.....moving on.....[/quote]

And?  The returning characters from ME2 all get their chance to shine if they're alive, they just don't join your squad.  Makes sense that the squad would be limitted in ME3.  In ME2 your mission was small-scale, you and your crew assaulting the Collector base.  You actually needed a small army for that.  In ME3, the goal is the unite the whole galaxy, and the size of your personal squad is less relevant, and each of the characters you've met prior have their own responsibilities, whether they're to aid you, or to contribute in some other way to the galactic struggle.



[quote]on catalysts logic-they are synthetics killing organics so synthetics wont kill organics, even if other details make it less insulting and more logical its still horrible writing and not compelling or good and just so seems like a horribly derivative and contrived explanation that does not come about naturally and feels like they were looking for some way to explain the reapers and it contadicts other themes and events in me 3 itself...[/quote]

The Reapers are techo-organic hybrids who's conciousness is composed of, as Legion puts it, "billions of organic minds".  Organic races are not wiped out, but merely preserved in Reaper form, body and mind, before each advanced civilization creates tech that they lose control of and not only wipe themselves out but also cause collateral damage to more primitive races.  It's a concept that is not new to the science fiction/science fantasy genre. 
Basically, the Reapers are wrong in what they do because it's barbaric and evil, not because it's circular logic. 



[quote]lastly on shep li reunion-, a 3 second scene of extreme ambiguity w/ shep taking a breath is not what Im referring to, nor is speculating he could maybe get back w. LI in your head....and w/ the ingo we're given at least pre ec shep is on earth and LI,if not from me 2, is starnded on some planet, no relays....[/quote]

Hopefully EC will expand on it.


[/quote]

Modifié par Geneaux486, 24 juin 2012 - 04:27 .

[RaenImrahl]

Everyone's had a change to express their opinion and make counter arguments. Time to move on, please.

EDIT: and @Landon7001, thanks for clarifying earlier.

Modifié par RaenImrahl, 24 juin 2012 - 04:29 .

[Taboo]

Nevermind. Our friendly neighborhood moderator has solved the issue.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 24 juin 2012 - 04:29 .

[mauro2222]

I don't know if it's circular or not, but it's bad logic, really bad logic.

The catalyst is not even aware that he's the one causing this tech singularity.

[Taboo]

mauro2222 wrote...

I don't know if it's circular or not, but it's bad logic, really bad logic.

The catalyst is not even aware that he's the one causing this tech singularity.

Mauro. You and I both know that adressing this is going to cause brain damage.

Let's see what the EC does.

[mauro2222]

Taboo-XX wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

I don't know if it's circular or not, but it's bad logic, really bad logic.

The catalyst is not even aware that he's the one causing this tech singularity.

Mauro. You and I both know that adressing this is going to cause brain damage.

Let's see what the EC does.

But but...

Ok... 

[Deebo305]

Meh...I'll catch it on YouTube, I been done with Mass Effect for awhile now and can't honestly say there anything more I wish to know that can't be explained in the next installment in the franchise, I love ME for what it is an imperfect masterpiece because let be honest no series is truly perfect. Hopefully Bioware doesn't pull another Jade Empire an abandon another critically acclaimed game.

[Sardart]

whatever happens, tuesday 26th I'll be F5-ing the EC download link 'till it appears.

And let's hope, cuddle our rabbits goodbay, cut them pawns then rub 'em good, buy lucky charm horns and pray your God that bath salt zombies ain't coming that week for you.