2621 réponses à ce sujet

[3DandBeyond]

Archonsg wrote...

@bluestorm83
My biggest issue with the Crucible is that it isn't just a mechanical device. It is a tech device and thus has and need code and systems to run it.
What, they hooked up Apple laptops with OS XX "Dragonball Z" and like a certain summer flick, this tech device that no one knows how to code for connects and interface with the Citadel?
Bravo!

/face palm

Seriously.
I can't believe no one in the writing team brought this up.
Oh wait, the target market are people who don't know where Iceland is, thinks Singapore is part of China, can't do calculus and think suicide is cool.

Right.

I want to see how they are going to sweeten Shepard's suicide.
Sacrifice is when both player and character had a choice but chose the path to death for a greater good. Where was that choice again?

Hey, about the Crucible for all you techies--since it has to be coded, how does one go about debugging it?

[CaptainDope]

Cosmar wrote...

Honestly I think one of the things they will change is that they will delete the "Shepard gasping for air" scene from the destroy ending. I am pretty sure they will make it be so Shepard is dead no matter what. Also Jennifer Hale had said before that she never got any invites from BW to come back for more Ending stuff (albeit that interview was a few months ago so something could have changed).

I really don't believe Bioware would retcon and remove Shepard's breathe scene. Because they said they are not changing the ending. Removing the breath scene would be changing it. That tiny little sequence is what gives people hope about a decently happy ending and a reunion with the crew and LI. If Bioware remove that scene and makes Shepard die regardless of what you do, it will cause yet another (and probably even bigger) dramatic ****storm than before.

Modifié par CaptainDope, 24 juin 2012 - 07:30 .

[TemplePhoenix]

CaptainDope wrote...

I really don't believe Bioware would retcon and remove Shepard's breathe scene. Because they said they are not changing the ending. Removing the breath scene would be changing it. That tiny little sequence is what gives people hope about a decently happy ending and a reunion with the crew and LI. If Bioware remove that scene and makes Shepard die regardless of what you do, it will cause yet another (and probably even bigger) dramatic ****storm than before.

Yeah, I can't see them doing this either. If anything, they would be more likely to have Shep live in MORE of the endings. Dunno how that would work, seeing as he/she gets disinte-muh-grated in Synthesis and Control, but hey...

[3DandBeyond]

CaptainDope wrote...

Cosmar wrote...

Honestly I think one of the things they will change is that they will delete the "Shepard gasping for air" scene from the destroy ending. I am pretty sure they will make it be so Shepard is dead no matter what. Also Jennifer Hale had said before that she never got any invites from BW to come back for more Ending stuff (albeit that interview was a few months ago so something could have changed).

I really don't believe Bioware would retcon and remove Shepard's breathe scene. Because they said they are not changing the ending. Removing the breath scene would be changing it. That tiny little sequence is what gives people hope about a decently happy ending and a reunion with the crew and LI. If Bioware remove that scene and makes Shepard die regardless of what you do, it will cause yet another (and probably even bigger) dramatic ****storm than before.

Sad isn't it that the one scene many if not most people cling to for hope is arguably the least believable and the least related to all your choices in the SP game, isn't it?

In order for it to happen, Shepard again must oh so sensibly walk toward and get really close to the tube s/he is shooting at for the amazing infinite ammo gun to do damage and for the amazing explosion to go off in his/her face.  Because most people would do that of course.  But if the player has only played SP, the explosion is way more powerful and Shepard is well too badly burnt toast.  If the player plays MP then the presto chango explosion isn't quite as strong and Shepard is more like an overdone steak (torso) that gasps.  Because we all know in the real galaxy where Shepard lives some god player will come along and play MP for this to happen.

I am one of those people that clung and clings to that stupid gasp.  I am one of those people that played MP to keep my galactic readiness up so Shepard could live.  And yet I hated Destroy just as much as the other 2 choices, sometimes moreso, but I didn't want Shepard to only die.

[Ieldra]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

*snipped*

As for "space magic", call it "sufficiently advanced technology" and be done with it. We have the relays, conventional FTL, Biotics, inter-species romance, Javik's psychometry etc.. etc... which everyone should be more concerned about because the Crucible *is* a unique piece of super-advanced technology. so advanced that the people who built it didn't even know what it could do.

Besides, it would've been unrealistic to expect a completely replaced ending.

The crucible is so advanced that the people who built it didn't even know what it could do?  That, my good friend, is utter gibberish. You can't build something technological without knowing what it can do.

That, my good friend, is nonsense. Example: It's perfectly possible to build a nuclear bomb from a found blueprint while having absolutely no idea that and why this thing will explode. What you can't do is *develop* such a thing, but that's where the "found" comes in.

Reapers are bad.  This guy controls Reapers.  Therefore This Guy Causes BADNESS.

Such a simplistic world view. "Badness" is a matter of perspective, as the Catalyst clearly shows.

---  Also, we shouldn't be more concerned about the Relays, Biotics, Javik's whole weird 6th sense.  Why not?  Because they're all EXPLAINED. 

A Mass Relay!?  How does THAT wor- oh, a corridor of near zero mass created through space instantaneously by one relay, transmitting an object through it at nigh-incomprehensible speeds, as facilitated by an electrical current running through a large mass of element zero.  That makes sense in the game world.

Does it? For anyone with a basic education in physics, the concept of a "mass-free corridor" is so obviously nonsensical that few self-respecting SF writers would ever such use a thing in their stories. Pure space magic.

And Javik's psychometry? Explained? Pfft. Telling someone's personality from a room in which he had been living is NOT magic exactly how? 

"Unexplained" doesn't mean "magic". "Unexplained" simply means "unexplained". Surely there's nothing wrong with the existence of technology not understood by people within the fictional universe? The *results* of the Crucible's actions should be explained, because we need to understand them in order to make a choice. But how the Crucible works doesn't need an explanation.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 24 juin 2012 - 07:42 .

[Taboo]

Ieldra, disengage. This will only cause you pain.

Anyway, they have resolved the EMS issue ladies and gentlemen. Pay attention to the forum and look at the sticky. Your answer about Shepard is there.

[CaptainDope]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Ieldra, disengage. This will only cause you pain.

Anyway, they have resolved the EMS issue ladies and gentlemen. Pay attention to the forum and look at the sticky. Your answer about Shepard is there.

I'm gonna play with 4000 EMS anway, just to be safe.

[Redbelle]

Ieldra2 wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

*snipped*

As for "space magic", call it "sufficiently advanced technology" and be done with it. We have the relays, conventional FTL, Biotics, inter-species romance, Javik's psychometry etc.. etc... which everyone should be more concerned about because the Crucible *is* a unique piece of super-advanced technology. so advanced that the people who built it didn't even know what it could do.

Besides, it would've been unrealistic to expect a completely replaced ending.

The crucible is so advanced that the people who built it didn't even know what it could do?  That, my good friend, is utter gibberish. You can't build something technological without knowing what it can do.

That, my good friend, is nonsense. Example: It's perfectly possible to build a nuclear bomb from a found blueprint while having absolutely no idea that and why this thing will explode. What you can't do is *develop* such a thing, but that's where the "found" comes in.

Reapers are bad.  This guy controls Reapers.  Therefore This Guy Causes BADNESS.

Such a simplistic world view. "Badness" is a matter of perspective, as the Catalyst clearly shows.

---  Also, we shouldn't be more concerned about the Relays, Biotics, Javik's whole weird 6th sense.  Why not?  Because they're all EXPLAINED. 

A Mass Relay!?  How does THAT wor- oh, a corridor of near zero mass created through space instantaneously by one relay, transmitting an object through it at nigh-incomprehensible speeds, as facilitated by an electrical current running through a large mass of element zero.  That makes sense in the game world.

Does it? For anyone with a basic education in physics, the concept of a "mass-free corridor" is so obviously nonsensical that few self-respecting SF writers would ever use a thing in their stories. Pure space magic.

And Javik's psychometry? Explained? Pfft. Telling someone's personality from a room in which he had been living is NOT magic exactly how? 

"Unexplained" doesn't mean "magic". "Unexplained" simply means "unexplained". Surely there's nothing wrong with the existence of technology not understood by people within the fictional universe? The *results* of the Crucible's actions should be explained, because we need to understand them in order to make a choice. But how the Crucible works doesn't need an explanation.

Just on one point. Yes it is technically possible to build a nuke from blueprints. But if you have read Tom Clancy who goes into some detail about the difficulties of doing so it will be a fizzler and not go nuclear. Or to put it another way, I once read about a car manufactured in Japan whose engines are built by machine but assembled by hand so that each engine had to be tested to measure it's output. Some engines are better than other depending on the talent of the one who made them.

The point of all this is that you can make something from blueprints............ but only an artist in the craft can bring out it's full potential.

Maybe anyone who has put together IKEA furniture could elaborate on this?

[Redbelle]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Snipped*

In order for it to happen, Shepard again must oh so sensibly walk toward and get really close to the tube s/he is shooting at for the amazing infinite ammo gun to do damage and for the amazing explosion to go off in his/her face. 

My problem with this is a rule of hollywood. Cool guys don't look at explosions!

The fact that Shepard not only looked......... but decided to try and contain the explosion with his or her mug is like turning up to a Tarantino after party in cords and a cardigan. His cool rating took a nose dive and thus is utter, utter..............utter proof that Shepard turned from galactic badass to Dwane Dibly by forgetting the no1 rule.

Don't look at the explosion!

[Apfelweinbrauer]

Redbelle wrote...

The point of all this is that you can make something from blueprints............ but only an artist in the craft can bring out it's full potential.

The whole crucible plot is just one big, lazily written McGuffin...

But besides that, you actually CAN make something from a blueprint, as long as you are at least halfway at the same technological level than the creator of said blueprint is.
The races of the ME-universe - at their current technological level - are constructing a device that can turn every living being in the whole galaxy into an organic/synthetic hybrid??
That's like handing the plans for a spaceshuttle to a medieval blacksmith...

[Reorte]

Tuesday? TUESDAY?! When I've got to go away for work for a few days? Damn my luck. This had better be worth it. Unless I spoil myself with my laptop, I was going to take a "no spoilers" approach to the EC but I might not bother now, it'll be nagging me wondering what I'm missing and I doubt that I've got the willpower.

[Archonsg]

Apfelweinbrauer wrote...

Redbelle wrote...

The point of all this is that you can make something from blueprints............ but only an artist in the craft can bring out it's full potential.

The whole crucible plot is just one big, lazily written McGuffin...

But besides that, you actually CAN make something from a blueprint, as long as you are at least halfway at the same technological level than the creator of said blueprint is.
The races of the ME-universe - at their current technological level - are constructing a device that can turn every living being in the whole galaxy into an organic/synthetic hybrid??
That's like handing the plans for a spaceshuttle to a medieval blacksmith...

Funny how most only see organic/synthetic but not the flip side of synthetic/organic.
Does it now give my toaster fleshy parts? What about blood and organs?
Since the beam doesn't seem to take intelligence into consideration or as Mordin puts it "beings able to do calculus" and gave trees and plants synthetic dna grafts complete with circuitry, it would be safe and logical to assume all inanimate objects now gain some organic properties, right?

Seriously.
We shouldn't haveto try to make sense of the ending.
It was simply put, badly thought out, if at all.
But hey, that is why they played the "artistic integrity" card.

Modifié par Archonsg, 24 juin 2012 - 08:28 .

[3DandBeyond]

Archonsg wrote...

Seriously.
We shouldn't haveto try to make sense of the ending.
It was simply put, badly thought out, if at all.
But hey, that is why they played the "artistic integrity" card.

You only play that card when you lose the story.  It's intellectual, beyond the comprehension of mere mortals.  Artistic and open to thoughtful speculation.  Use your imagination, folks.  Uh, no, write a story using actual writing.  Follow it through to the end with more actual writing.  Dramatic license can be done well or it can be used in place of following plot and story lines.

Oh, and there's no way to make sense of it.  The smartness for that does not exist.

And about synthesis, what happens to all the synthetic tech in people-the implants.  Do they turn part organic too? 

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 24 juin 2012 - 08:34 .

[Thanatos144]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

Seriously.
We shouldn't haveto try to make sense of the ending.
It was simply put, badly thought out, if at all.
But hey, that is why they played the "artistic integrity" card.

You only play that card when you lose the story.  It's intellectual, beyond the comprehension of mere mortals.  Artistic and open to thoughtful speculation.  Use your imagination, folks.  Uh, no, write a story using actual writing.  Follow it through to the end with more actual writing.  Dramatic license can be done well or it can be used in place of following plot and story lines.

Oh, and there's no way to make sense of it.  The smartness for that does not exist.

And about synthesis, what happens to all the synthetic tech in people-the implants.  Do they turn part organic too? 

Then dont play the game....Thats your answer to all your tears and my hurt eyes from reading your tantrum.

[EvilChani]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Yes well said.  The thing is it seems that they purposely underestimated and then impugned the intelligence of their very loyal fanbase.  The question is why and it may hinge on that fact-they have decided they want a different fanbase.  MP is one aspect of that.  Almost all of us know that MP can be fun, but it's not "hardcore" like some other FPSs out there.  ME3 featured better action and some awesome stories and character action, but a lot of it was reaper tag and characters we liked were there and then gone from view.  The story scenes, missions with friends, were mostly good, but sometimes it was like, "why bother?"  Kasumi and Zaeed, and many of the initial Miranda conversations and the Jacob mission.  I ended up really liking Miranda and Jacob and seeing their different personalities.  I saw Miranda as similar in many ways to Jack-tormented in a different way, but the product of a ruined childhood.  Miranda (hell all of them) should have had a bigger role.  The reaper tag searches for assets was simple scanning for resources. 

It seems like they are trying to morph their games into something less story rich and character heavy, but why couldn't they have both?  In 2 different games.  It's just amazing to me how a company can take some of the most loyal customers and one of the most diverse groups of fans and so easily and flawlessly make them want to run elsewhere.  Hopefully, I am totally wrong and the EC will be an amazing piece of work, but the choice to show that Joker running away scene with brand spanking new dialogue doesn't seem great.  Of course, I need to know what happens next and maybe they show something that makes sense.  Hope they do.

^^This is one reason I have not been able to bring myself to touch ME1 or ME2 (which I grew to love even more than ME1) since I played ME3. What's the point? All the effort Shepard puts into gathering the ME2 team is nothing but wasted effort. Thane dies (and, not only can he not be saved, but he is treated like a vibrator rather than someone Shepard truly loved), Mordin dies (he honestly is the only ME2 crew that gets decent treatment), and the rest of them are cameos, at best. ME3 made ME2 utterly and completely pointless. We may as well have not bothered with side missions, let our entire crew die and leave it at that. There's no payoff.

I can't help but feel the reason the story was suddenly ignored was because all they cared about was MP and getting the shooter fans in the mix so they could sell stupid DLC weapons packs and tshirts. After all, they don't actually have to work much for that stuff. Telling stories where the gamers get to help shape their characters' path is in the past, better to force feed us trite, depressing crap and yell, LET'S SHOOT ****!! They want nothing but short-attention-spanned shooter fans playing their games, and at this point that's exactly what they may get. It would be just what they deserve, too. 

[Dr_Hello]

Good stuff! Looking forward to it!

[The Revolut]

Thanatos144 wrote...

Then dont play the game....Thats your answer to all your tears and my hurt eyes from reading your tantrum.

Too bad we already have.

Now what, buttercup?

[Archonsg]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

Seriously.
We shouldn't haveto try to make sense of the ending.
It was simply put, badly thought out, if at all.
But hey, that is why they played the "artistic integrity" card.

You only play that card when you lose the story.  It's intellectual, beyond the comprehension of mere mortals.  Artistic and open to thoughtful speculation.  Use your imagination, folks.  Uh, no, write a story using actual writing.  Follow it through to the end with more actual writing.  Dramatic license can be done well or it can be used in place of following plot and story lines.

Oh, and there's no way to make sense of it.  The smartness for that does not exist.

And about synthesis, what happens to all the synthetic tech in people-the implants.  Do they turn part organic too? 

I would assume those parts become integrated as part of the "synthetic whole". That is if you accept the whole synthesis thing.
The bigger issue would be, how the EC is going to explain all this logically.

[3DandBeyond]

Thanatos144 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

Seriously.
We shouldn't haveto try to make sense of the ending.
It was simply put, badly thought out, if at all.
But hey, that is why they played the "artistic integrity" card.

You only play that card when you lose the story.  It's intellectual, beyond the comprehension of mere mortals.  Artistic and open to thoughtful speculation.  Use your imagination, folks.  Uh, no, write a story using actual writing.  Follow it through to the end with more actual writing.  Dramatic license can be done well or it can be used in place of following plot and story lines.

Oh, and there's no way to make sense of it.  The smartness for that does not exist.

And about synthesis, what happens to all the synthetic tech in people-the implants.  Do they turn part organic too? 

Then dont play the game....Thats your answer to all your tears and my hurt eyes from reading your tantrum.

Bubbles, I have yet to throw a tantrum.  Contrary to one who repeatedly races to find such a lack of adult commentary, I have repeatedly stated my position and am able to NOT read that which does not interest me.  Use your abilities and don't read those posts that offend you.  Problem solved. 

You tell people to not play the game, you've told people to not buy the game (how that is done after someone buys and plays it, I don't know).  On the flip side, I have asked Bioware to make an ending that will allow me to remain a fan and customer. 

Apparently, you wish for people to take their money elsewhere and because many just may, future Bioware games may be even less awesome just for you.  I have always stated a wish for Bioware to continue making great games and for them to work to keep the great fans they have.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 24 juin 2012 - 08:59 .

[babymoon]

EvilChani wrote...

^^This is one reason I have not been able to bring myself to touch ME1 or ME2 (which I grew to love even more than ME1) since I played ME3. What's the point? All the effort Shepard puts into gathering the ME2 team is nothing but wasted effort. Thane dies (and, not only can he not be saved, but he is treated like a vibrator rather than someone Shepard truly loved), Mordin dies (he honestly is the only ME2 crew that gets decent treatment), and the rest of them are cameos, at best. ME3 made ME2 utterly and completely pointless. We may as well have not bothered with side missions, let our entire crew die and leave it at that. There's no payoff.

I can't help but feel the reason the story was suddenly ignored was because all they cared about was MP and getting the shooter fans in the mix so they could sell stupid DLC weapons packs and tshirts. After all, they don't actually have to work much for that stuff. Telling stories where the gamers get to help shape their characters' path is in the past, better to force feed us trite, depressing crap and yell, LET'S SHOOT ****!! They want nothing but short-attention-spanned shooter fans playing their games, and at this point that's exactly what they may get. It would be just what they deserve, too. 

I think that was one of the most upsetting things to me, how little most of the ME2 characters were involved in ME3 after spending 30+ hours recruiting them and getting to know them and becoming best buds with them. I've been replaying ME2 and it's just like...why even bother trying to romance Miranda or Thane when they're barely even in the last game.

And I agree with the MP thing as well. I know I'm beating a dead horse... but I still can't get over the fact that I had to play it in order to get an ending that didn't involve everyone dying stupidly.

Modifié par babymoon, 24 juin 2012 - 08:56 .

[Thanatos144]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

Seriously.
We shouldn't haveto try to make sense of the ending.
It was simply put, badly thought out, if at all.
But hey, that is why they played the "artistic integrity" card.

You only play that card when you lose the story.  It's intellectual, beyond the comprehension of mere mortals.  Artistic and open to thoughtful speculation.  Use your imagination, folks.  Uh, no, write a story using actual writing.  Follow it through to the end with more actual writing.  Dramatic license can be done well or it can be used in place of following plot and story lines.

Oh, and there's no way to make sense of it.  The smartness for that does not exist.

And about synthesis, what happens to all the synthetic tech in people-the implants.  Do they turn part organic too? 

Then dont play the game....Thats your answer to all your tears and my hurt eyes from reading your tantrum.

Bubbles, I have yet to throw a tantrum.  Contrary to one who repeatedly races to find such a lack of adult commentary, I have repeatedly stated my position and am able to NOT read that which does not interest me.  Use your abilities and don't read those posts that offend you.  Problem solved. 

You tell people to not play the game, you've told people to not buy the game (how that is done after someone buys and plays it, I don't know).  On the flip side, I have asked Bioware to make an ending that will allow me to remain a fan and customer. 

Apparently, you wish for people to take their money elsewhere and because many just may, future Bioware games may be even less awesome just for you.  I have always stated a wish for Bioware to continue making great games and for them to work to keep the great fans they have.

Months of tantrums and conspiracies are all you write.....I am still waiting for proof that the good reviews ME got was because they were
paid for like you accuse.

[Redbelle]

Thanatos144 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

Seriously.
We shouldn't haveto try to make sense of the ending.
It was simply put, badly thought out, if at all.
But hey, that is why they played the "artistic integrity" card.

You only play that card when you lose the story.  It's intellectual, beyond the comprehension of mere mortals.  Artistic and open to thoughtful speculation.  Use your imagination, folks.  Uh, no, write a story using actual writing.  Follow it through to the end with more actual writing.  Dramatic license can be done well or it can be used in place of following plot and story lines.

Oh, and there's no way to make sense of it.  The smartness for that does not exist.

And about synthesis, what happens to all the synthetic tech in people-the implants.  Do they turn part organic too? 

Then dont play the game....Thats your answer to all your tears and my hurt eyes from reading your tantrum.

For some of us it's to late not to play the game! Those of you who have not though! Ruuuuuun! Save yourselves! To paraphrase Darth Vader........ 'It's too late for us'.

No hang on, those who wish to continue the ME journey should be free to do so. As they should also not be discouraged from having a view of that ending. And nor should their voices be stifled in how they choose to express that opinion.

After all, the only reason I got a handle on what was going on with the ending was because I listened to other ppl express their views and thus the ending that was cracked beyond belief became a jigsaw that began to form a picture......... With missing pieces to be sure, but at least, knowing what is missing, I have a better idea of what is needed to complete the image.

[zenoxis]

I'm actually disappointed it's coming out so early. I was hoping Bioware would take their time and do it right, but now it seems pretty evident that they're rushing it out just like they did with ME3. Guess I shouldn't be surprised though, their recent track record has been outright terrible.

[D24O]

Every time I click on this thread, I'm scared that any hope I have for the EC will be dashed.