2621 réponses à ce sujet

[ryn_wolf]

fingers crossed..I hope my shepard can reunite with the crew and his love interest

[PoorBleedingMe]

3DandBeyond wrote...

The problem is there is something fundamentally wrong with each choice.  Control isn't something Shepard ever wanted to do with anything.  Shepard morally was about consensus among other things or the right of others to determine their fate.  It's impossible to believe that control could take place as it's presented.  Shepard dies but controls the reapers-ok, maybe (and this may have been the initial intent) Shepard becomes the new Catalyst.  Who in their right mind would want that fate for Shepard?  That means Shepard becomes the star kid, er star banana or whatever he is.  And it's unknown what that really would mean for Shepard.  Imagine time without end being forced to tell the reapers what to do.  And then consider that no one else would be happy with the fact the reapers still existed.  Would anyone on Earth be glad they had not been destroyed?  On Thessia?  And power corrupts. 

Perhaps the star kid did originally have a good idea and was trying to save people from well, the reapers and he somehow took control of them.  Maybe that's the meaning of the codex on the beings of light that protect people from machine devils.  But maybe the star kid became corrupted in controlling them and his ideas got warped and in trying to save people, he started sending reapers to ascend them as he calls it.

The goal was never to control them, it was always to destroy them.  Shepard saw that TIM wanted to assert control and rejected that as an idea.  But, neither of the other 2 choices are any better.  Destroy sucks, Synthesis sucks.  Shooting the kid in the head-well that would work if it were possible.

Perhaps all 3 options seem to suck, as they were not clarified enough in the original endings. I really hope they 'suck in terms of carrying no or little optimism' (being fatalistic, to put it short), but at least clarify the aftermath and show that it is relevant which choice was made.

[3DandBeyond]

Ieldra2 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...
What many people are saying is that the podcast about the EC indicates that none of what they found ridiculous about the ending has been really changed in any way and that Bioware truly didn't understand the complaints.

You don't know that. There's a lot they can do without changing the substance of the endings.
*it could've been clarified that the breath scene is on one of the broken-off ward arms of the CItadel.
*The Catalyst's exposition could've been rewritten to make more sense.
*The description of Synthesis could've been rewritten to make sense.
*The description of Control could've been rewritten to be not contradict itself.
*It could be clarified that the planet the Normandy crashed on has a technological infrastructure.
*It could've been be clarified that the relays aren't destroyed in Control.
And quite a few more things. Basically, everyone who sees at least a little merit in the options for the final choice could theoretically end up satisfied.

Will they do that? No idea. We'll know in 24 hours.

Going by what they said-they did not fundamentally change the endings.  I've always said if they have markedly improved upon it, I'd be glad to say good job, but their words indicate they have not.

The choices would have to be drastically changed, but what is wrong with it still will be wrong if the star kid is still there and if the choices are the artificial constructs that they now are.  They are from Deus ex-control, merge, destroy.  They were inserted as a way to funnel all the decisions made in the game into 3 similarly displayed endings.  Control as even a theory can't be explained into something I'd agree with-so the mass relay thing is moot in my opinion.  Synthesis as well-it's what the kid and the reapers always wanted, so it's a non-choice.

The basic problem is that the endings should have flowed naturally from the choices made in the games.  But no, they needed a large podium to pop up (ABC choices) that stop the natural flow of the game.  The vast majority of us that found the ending flawed find the whole Citadel/Crucible situation arbitrary, ambiguous, childish, unoriginal, and unworkable.  Unless the star kid is completely rewritten and so on, it's hard to conceive of minor dialogue changes fixing this.

And yes, I could be wrong, but their statements suggest otherwise.  They stand by their vision which is that they saw what other people had written in other stories and games and liked it so much they decided to tack it onto the ending of ME3.

[KrazyKiko]

Argh...just got back from a week camping in the Boundry Waters - communing with nature - and taking Monday off to regroup before work. I was excited to hear that EC is scheduled for release this week! Just wish Tuesdays weren't the release days for stuff. Argh...perfect time to see what "closure" BioW_EA_r provides us.

[3DandBeyond]

PoorBleedingMe wrote...

Wuartz wrote...

After watching the Control ending on Youtube, it seemed like Shepard managed to become the Reapers, and therefore made a big sacrifice for the good of the galaxy. No one more dies, and Shepard lives on in the form of Reapers. It's actually a pretty okay ending.

But the problem is, we never understood that this ending could be good. Illusive Man was the bad guy, and he wanted to control the Reapers. Anderson, our father figure, chose Destroy. I followed Anderson. But by doing so, I destroyed all tech in the galaxy.

There's one more question. How can we be sure, that Shepard, after choosing to control the Reapers won't feel lust for more power and would return in 50.000 years time to clear the Galaxy of organic life? We are able to see only what happens to the Reapers directly after the choice is made, but we know nothing about the future of the Reapers, as they are still 'there', somewhere. The only way to make sure they're gone is by destroing them once and for all. That seems like a Paragon choice to me (especially when it includes sacrificing some of your friends and allies for the sake of billions of lives - doign otherwise would be selfish).

Again, a Paragon Shepard cares about EDI and the geth and has never wanted to sacrifice someone to save someone else.  I agree that Destroy is the most logical choice, but not the most emotionally correct or Paragon one.  There is no such Paragon choice at all and even Renegades would have a problem making a choice.

This is a game that decided you should care about the people in it-not just interact with them to buy things and to get them to help you defeat a dragon, but you were purposely meant to care about them.  You were given the chance to have your avatar fall in love or not or cheat.  Your Shepard could teach all those teammates something about what real choice is.  My Shepard wouldn't let Garrus kill Dr. Heart or Sedonis and Garrus was ultimately glad to have not killed them-Garrus grew as a person.  My Shepard saw that Legion did indeed have a soul and that Legion was willing to do something many other organics would never do-he sacrificed himself in order that his people could live.  But he sacrificed FOR something.  My Shepard said you don't condemn a race of people to extinction based upon what MIGHT happen.  My Shepard argued with the dying reaper on Rannoch and said that synthetics and organics don't always need to fight.  My Shepard destroyed the Collector base so that TIM could not control it.  My Shepard argued with Saren about Synthesis and much much more.  My Shepard wouldn't choose any of the kid's choices.

[EVILFLUFFMONSTER]

After the ending, everything fades to white, and then shepard is suddenly on the geth facility with Legion, just coming out of the pod thingy.

"Shepard commander"

"what happened, why am I here..I thought I was..?"

"When one perceived a return to normal reality, one was in fact entering a simulation, shepard commander. One could not obtain enough quantities of data to reliably predict the outcome of such an event. One had to be..sure.

" None of that was real? What about the catalyst?"

"A fabrication. It was necessary for one to believe in a higher purpose in order to motivate ones actions. The child was a strong emotional marker in your memory data shepard, a symbol of your humanity. It was the most logical image to present the choice."

"Then what have we been building all this time? What about my team?"

"One has insufficient data regarding the weapon, one is still coming to a consensus. Shepard commander's friends are waiting on the Normandy. The weapon is almost complete shepard commander, you will be required to make a choice."

"And what of earth? How much time has passed?!"

"The simulation only lasted 3.186 hours in real-time shepard commander, ones consciousness was accelerated within the program. One could have increased the speed, but one would also increase the probability of errors within the program to beyond an acceptable margin.
One would have preferred more time, however the Quarian fleet has chosen to attack, many geth platforms have been expended to give you enough time shepard commander."

TBC..

[3DandBeyond]

K1LL STREAK wrote...

After the ending, everything fades to white, and then shepard is suddenly on the geth facility with Legion, just coming out of the pod thingy.

"Shepard commander"

"what happened, why am I here..I thought I was..?"

"When one perceived a return to normal reality, one was in fact entering a simulation, shepard commander. One could not obtain enough quantities of data to reliably predict the outcome of such an event. One had to be..sure.

" None of that was real? What about the catalyst?"

"A fabrication. It was necessary for one to believe in a higher purpose in order to motivate ones actions. The child was a strong emotional marker in your memory data shepard, a symbol of your humanity. It was the most logical image to present the choice."

"Then what have we been building all this time? What about my team?"

"One has insufficient data regarding the weapon, one is still coming to a consensus. Shepard commander's friends are waiting on the Normandy. The weapon is almost complete shepard commander, you will be required to make a choice."

"And what of earth? How much time has passed?!"

"The simulation only lasted 3.186 hours in real-time shepard commander, ones consciousness was accelerated within the program. One could have increased the speed, but one would also increase the probability of errors within the program to beyond an acceptable margin.
One would have preferred more time, however the Quarian fleet has chosen to attack, many geth platforms have been expended to give you enough time shepard commander."

TBC..

I actually do like this....the only problem is that the game still does then need an ending, but if we'd gotten some very specific hints as to that, it still could have been ok.

If you look at the galaxy map once you have opened up all the systems you can open, there are a few that are still closed-presumably for DLC.  The intent may have been (and since they've confirmed there will be DLC to come), to actually create more DLC to impact further ending scenarios.  It's hard to believe them, but so much of what I've read that they've said leads me to believe this is possible.  The ending as it is even in the EC may not even yet be the "real" ending.  If so, though they needed to let us in on the joke and let us enjoy the ride, too.

Seeing as a Crucible is supposed to be a test and a Catalyst is supposed to help initiate an action, I don't know what they were going for with that whole thing and this is one way or one example of how a test could be explored.  I wanted to believe that the choices were indeed a test to see what Shepard would do and not what would actually happen. 

[PoorBleedingMe]

3DandBeyond wrote...

My Shepard argued with Saren about Synthesis and much much more.  My Shepard wouldn't choose any of the kid's choices.

I fully understand as I played as Paragon from my first ME1 playthrough. Nevertheless, I admire BioWare for not creating endings that would please everyone. It was a risky path for BW as many players declared not to buy BW productions anymore. Of course, the way the aftermath of each original ending tell us nothing sucks! But thumbs up for BW for putting us in this spot, where there's no such thing as an easy choice. The ending of the Shepard saga is like a Greek Tragedy - no matter what you choose, something bad must happen (like sacrificing your 'children' for the good of the rest of Galaxy).

I just hope the EC versions of the endings will leave me with this thought - OK, I had to do it, it was very difficult for me but at least something good came out of it.

[3DandBeyond]

PoorBleedingMe wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

My Shepard argued with Saren about Synthesis and much much more.  My Shepard wouldn't choose any of the kid's choices.

I fully understand as I played as Paragon from my first ME1 playthrough. Nevertheless, I admire BioWare for not creating endings that would please everyone. It was a risky path for BW as many players declared not to buy BW productions anymore. Of course, the way the aftermath of each original ending tell us nothing sucks! But thumbs up for BW for putting us in this spot, where there's no such thing as an easy choice. The ending of the Shepard saga is like a Greek Tragedy - no matter what you choose, something bad must happen (like sacrificing your 'children' for the good of the rest of Galaxy).

I just hope the EC versions of the endings will leave me with this thought - OK, I had to do it, it was very difficult for me but at least something good came out of it.

You are free to like it of course.  But, in creating a game with replayability (that is something you pay for) having all endings kill off the hero would make it pointless to play through again.  But, you fail to note that that isn't all that happens.  It can be explained however you want as to where Shepard lands when that gasp scene happens, but why it happened can't be explained away.  Apparently that may change, but in order for Shepard to gasp players must play MP and get a high enough EMS-how exactly does that follow the events of the story-MP is outside of the story.  And it isn't that the choices are just "not easy", it's that they are from another game.  You may want to congratulate Bioware for them, but they didn't think them up, they copied them.  And the reason why it's like from a Greek tragedy is because the game they copied them from (Deus ex) used themes from a Greek tragedy-about Medea and Helios.  And it was done way better in Deus ex.

Keep in mind this is a game-a good game with thoughtful stories.  And Shepard already has sacrificed his/her life and living for everything that s/he has already done.  But, because it's so adult and mature and intellectual, that's not enough.  BS.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 25 juin 2012 - 02:05 .

[antares_sublight]

ryn_wolf wrote...

fingers crossed..I hope my shepard can reunite with the crew and his love interest

This is BioWare, whatever you want to happen is not gonna happen. "not the intended vision"

[Blackmind1]

 Question: Last time I checked, when you load up the Cerberus base save that is created AFTER you complete the game, doesn't it stop you from picking a choice at the end? I'm assuming this will be removed for the extended cut?

I'd hate to play through until the Starchild and be told that 'I've already made my choice'.

[3DandBeyond]

antares_sublight wrote...

ryn_wolf wrote...

fingers crossed..I hope my shepard can reunite with the crew and his love interest

This is BioWare, whatever you want to happen is not gonna happen. "not the intended vision"

I've always believed you expect little and hope for much, but the podcast makes it hard to do this.  The added Hackett dialog for the Joker running away scene (though we don't yet have full context) seems like a laughable workaround.  And we were supposed to understand that originally-that Hackett told Joker to fly off and that all the fleets or "everyone" whoever that is, was supposed to meet at a rendevous point.  Yes, I totally got that from the original scene. 

[3DandBeyond]

Blackmind1 wrote...

 Question: Last time I checked, when you load up the Cerberus base save that is created AFTER you complete the game, doesn't it stop you from picking a choice at the end? I'm assuming this will be removed for the extended cut?

I'd hate to play through until the Starchild and be told that 'I've already made my choice'.

This was not my experience-I played it through the first time and hated to, but made a choice to see what would happen (because I had no idea).  I then was dumped back on the Normandy deck before the Cerberus assault.  I played through again and for the longest time just never made a choice again, but I did once decide to try another choice to get my own reaction to doing it with my Shepard and I was able to pick something else.

Question from me is, did you create a save before the assault on Cerberus or are you using an autosave?  I have both, and have come back and loaded the save I created.  Actually, I have 3 types of saves.  I have one that I created before Cerberus, the autosave after the ending, and a save I created once I got dumped back on the Normandy after the ending.

[Blackmind1]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Blackmind1 wrote...

 Question: Last time I checked, when you load up the Cerberus base save that is created AFTER you complete the game, doesn't it stop you from picking a choice at the end? I'm assuming this will be removed for the extended cut?

I'd hate to play through until the Starchild and be told that 'I've already made my choice'.

This was not my experience-I played it through the first time and hated to, but made a choice to see what would happen (because I had no idea).  I then was dumped back on the Normandy deck before the Cerberus assault.  I played through again and for the longest time just never made a choice again, but I did once decide to try another choice to get my own reaction to doing it with my Shepard and I was able to pick something else.

Question from me is, did you create a save before the assault on Cerberus or are you using an autosave?  I have both, and have come back and loaded the save I created.  Actually, I have 3 types of saves.  I have one that I created before Cerberus, the autosave after the ending, and a save I created once I got dumped back on the Normandy after the ending.

As of right now I only have the post-ending auto save that dumps you just before Ceberus. I am NOT playing through the game again until I know if it's worth it.

[djspectre]

Mixxer5 wrote...

It's 1.9 gb! It looks like true add-on

That's because the Xbox has a 2gb download limit. The podcast actually even states that fact. 

[Rajalia]

Have to wonder what the backlash could potentially be if it doesn't have any redeeming qualities. The dissatisfaction after release was clearly huge. What happens if their attempt at "tweaking" some content to add more information just does nothing more than toss more fuel onto the flames?

Safe to say... I'd not want to be the people essentially on the hot seat right now. I doubt you'd see Bioware go under any time soon, but it's not all too uncommon that if a company repeatedly puts out what are considered failures to some extent (not necessarily financially) there is almost a guaranteed lack of confidence in upper management. It'd be a safer bet to say that higher ups would be forced out of their positions with newer individuals in hopes to restore investor confidence.

[Blackmind1]

 Another question here. My EMS is full right now (green bar is at the top), even though my readiness is only at 50%. I also just got the best possible destruction ending as though I have over 6000 EMS. My scores are 6536 TMS and 3268 EMS.

Did Bioware patch the game so that we don't need multiplayer any more?

[3DandBeyond]

Blackmind1 wrote...

 Another question here. My EMS is full right now (green bar is at the top), even though my readiness is only at 50%. I also just got the best possible destruction ending as though I have over 6000 EMS. My scores are 6536 TMS and 3268 EMS.

Did Bioware patch the game so that we don't need multiplayer any more?

To be clear, you got the "Shepard gasps" ending?

I know that they said the EMS was going to be fixed, but as far as I know that was supposed to happen in the EC.

[dekkerd]

Blackmind1 wrote...

 Another question here. My EMS is full right now (green bar is at the top), even though my readiness is only at 50%. I also just got the best possible destruction ending as though I have over 6000 EMS. My scores are 6536 TMS and 3268 EMS.

Did Bioware patch the game so that we don't need multiplayer any more?

There is a whole sticky thread about that. 
http://social.biowar...580/15#12722784

[Samuelcd]

Blackmind1 wrote...

 Question: Last time I checked, when you load up the Cerberus base save that is created AFTER you complete the game, doesn't it stop you from picking a choice at the end? I'm assuming this will be removed for the extended cut?

I'd hate to play through until the Starchild and be told that 'I've already made my choice'.

On Saturday I played through to the end from the Cerberus base after I completed the game, and it still let me choose. I've never heard of what you described happening... 

[Landon7001]

Rajalia wrote...

Have to wonder what the backlash could potentially be if it doesn't have any redeeming qualities. The dissatisfaction after release was clearly huge. What happens if their attempt at "tweaking" some content to add more information just does nothing more than toss more fuel onto the flames?

Safe to say... I'd not want to be the people essentially on the hot seat right now. I doubt you'd see Bioware go under any time soon, but it's not all too uncommon that if a company repeatedly puts out what are considered failures to some extent (not necessarily financially) there is almost a guaranteed lack of confidence in upper management. It'd be a safer bet to say that higher ups would be forced out of their positions with newer individuals in hopes to restore investor confidence.

Believe me it will be biowares demise.....as others have pointed out this is a cultural phenomenon and not in a good way......this whole fiasco is unprecedented, the backlash and their lies and attitude are all unprecedented, the movements-unprecedented.....and what they said  on the podcast is they are not looking to please fans, so.......you do the math

[sonicchaos]

Blackmind1 wrote...

 Another question here. My EMS is full right now (green bar is at the top), even though my readiness is only at 50%. I also just got the best possible destruction ending as though I have over 6000 EMS. My scores are 6536 TMS and 3268 EMS.

Did Bioware patch the game so that we don't need multiplayer any more?

Apparently they did something to ease up on the gamers that are not really into multiplayer, but I don't know what specifically.
As I tend to spend a fair amount of time on multiplayer, my TMS is equal to my EMS. So, as you can see, the EMS is strongly related to the Galactic Readiness at this point, as in a procentual quantity/quality of your War Assets. If your readiness is 100%, all your army will be ready to fight, but at 50% only half of your army will be ready. That's kinda how it works.
They kinda tried to push the multiplayer on gamers, which isn't fair. There are ways to get your EMS over 5000 to get the "gasp" scene and that's by scaning systems / planets and finding all the lost or hidden (i don't know the logic behind this) war assets, but that also is a tedious and not fun activity. My opinion: play around 10 matches on multyplayer (starting from 50% readiness) and you'll get to what you want. It's better than playing fetch while the Galaxy burns.

[eran5005]

Is there an hour and minute ETA on the release on June 26th?
I'm in europe so i guess it will happen late in the evening according to my time zone, but just a general hour ETA for north america can still give me a ballpark to look forward too

Modifié par eran5005, 25 juin 2012 - 03:02 .

[Sardart]

eran5005 wrote...

Is there an hour and minute ETA on the release on June 26th?
I'm in europe so i guess it will happen late in the evening according to my time zone, but just a general hour ETA for north america can still give me a ballpark to look forward too

Generalli should be Lunch time GMT 0

[3DandBeyond]

Rajalia wrote...

Have to wonder what the backlash could potentially be if it doesn't have any redeeming qualities. The dissatisfaction after release was clearly huge. What happens if their attempt at "tweaking" some content to add more information just does nothing more than toss more fuel onto the flames?

Safe to say... I'd not want to be the people essentially on the hot seat right now. I doubt you'd see Bioware go under any time soon, but it's not all too uncommon that if a company repeatedly puts out what are considered failures to some extent (not necessarily financially) there is almost a guaranteed lack of confidence in upper management. It'd be a safer bet to say that higher ups would be forced out of their positions with newer individuals in hopes to restore investor confidence.

Well, any impact of course remains to be seen-I believe lack of satisfaction with ME3 did carry over into TOR as subscriptions dropped way off and people were laid off-some of that could be due to TOR itself as well of course.

We don't know yet what the EC will be like, have a sneaking suspicion but time (tomorrow) may tell.  One problem could be one of perception.  Bioware in my opinion has been in denial and ignore mode as well as C.Y.A., so they have allowed or tried to encourage the public perception of unhappy fans to be negative.  Reviewers have been tacitly encouraged to foster this.  This is exactly not how to do business.  A company that cares for its fans, stops it and tells people publicly that this is not right.

What is one possible outcome therefore is that if the EC is not great or sufficient or markedly better, fans will express dissatisfaction.  That's what you do when you don't like a product.  However, since reviewers have already been allowed and predisposed to see fans as whiners and entitled and demanding and threatening (saying you won't buy another Bioware product if it isn't fixed was said to be a threat by Hudson, reported to the "media"), and so on.  So, the perception of professional reviewers will be that Bioware in one awesome move tried to make their fans happy, even gave away content for free to make amends that ungrateful fans are now complaining about.  Fans will be made the villains if they do not like the EC.  Reviewers like Game Informer (owned by Game Stop that wants to sell games and good reviews sell games) have been insulting to unhappy fans.  IGN was particularly unkind to fans.  But, they didn't do any due diligence in even trying to state what fans were unhappy with.  One female on G4TV I think it was, spoke up and said she understood and she was talked down to by the guys on the panel who couldn't even specifically say what they liked about the ending.  One guy said it was "ok", but he also saw fans as the bad guys.

Fans like me can't and won't win.  Our money will have to speak for us and sadly we never wanted that at all.  We want most of all to remain fans, to play Bioware games and to like them.  Consider that it's generally the people that say they are pro-enders and pro-Bioware that are the ones that tell us to go elsewhere and just not buy it if we don't like it.  Most of us are saying the opposite.  Give us a reason to spend our money on Bioware.

Consider this though, well before the release of ME3, Bioware had hoped that it would do for gaming what Star Wars did for movies.  They wanted a blockbuster that would be remembered forever for its popularity and its novel attitude.  They expected it to catapult them into greatness.  They missed the mark and I'm not saying it should have had a Star Wars-esque ending, but it needed at least one uplifting one along with any sad ones that were possible.  They needed epic and instead got something childish and amateurish.  And for their efforts they have alienated a large section of their most ardent fanbase.  When that happens you really do try and make it right and be like a Phoenix, arising from the ashes.  Sad they couldn't see this when those are even images within the game.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 25 juin 2012 - 03:16 .