2621 réponses à ce sujet

[BlueStorm83]

Wesker1984 wrote...

*snipped*

Everyone say this not the way Shepard who will act, i think you should say this is not the way YOUR Shepard or YOU will act but in my case i see my Shepard as a iconic hero who live only to protect the things he have faith in it and will do whatever it take to stop a danger to come even sacrifice his own existence and this is way the control ending fitting with my Shepard because it served the purpose i saw throught my Shepard and i loved the irony in that ending, you fight to stop them in three games and you end up controling what you wanted to destroy and used them as a force to protect entire civilasations becoming less a man and more a god.

The point about that is that if there's even ONE Shepard that would never make those choices, then the game is broken.  If this were Gears of War, Marcus Fenix could make any choice he wants.  We never got to infuse Marcus with our own personalities.  We couldn't craft his face or his history.  That's a true Third Person Narrative.

Mass Effect, while being a third person shooter RPG, is actually more of a Second Person Narrative.  You know, like a "Choose your own adventure" novel.  "You walk down the hall and see three doors.  A Red Door, a Blue Door, and a Green Door.  What do you do?"  Well, any human being in that situation would have five options.  He has the three doors.  He can stand there and do nothing.  OR he can even turn around and go home.  Going back to Marcus, and his third person narrative...  "Marcus walks down the hall and sees three doors.  He SAWS THE RED DOOR IN HALF, and kicks the **** out of whatever was on the other side."  No choice there, Marcus is a fleshed out character on auto pilot.  That's just what Marcus would do.  He wouldn't merge humanity with the Locust (green door) and he wouldn't become the Locust Queen (Blue door.)  He didn't even OPEN the red door, he sawed it in half!  Ah, but Shepard.  He could open the doors, he could turn around, he could contemplate the nature of doors, he could talk to the doors, he could dance poorly in front of the doors.  And it was always our choice of what to do.

Just because your Shepard was fine with someone shoving him toward those doors, unable to stop, unable to turn around, doesn't make that same situation valid for MY Shepard, would had always said, "Quit pushing me, ****head, I make my own way."

[Wesker1984]

3DandBeyond wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...

---  That's my point.  They didn't need to make him likeable or anything.  they juse needed to suspend my Disbelief.

Also, I didn't make the Master Mold connection.  I considered him more like Brainiac from Superman.  Learn all about a civilization, preserve it... as data...  Then BLOW IT THE MUTHA **** UP!!!!  WOOOO, CRAZY ROBOT!

Sure, he's still stupid and WAY too literalistic, but at least now he's not contradicting himself within one sentence.  And honestly?  Even his end goal has changed.  He's not trying to preserve Organics by killing Evil Synthetics... as he kills Organics with Evil Synthetics.  Now he's trying to maintain a non-violent state between Organics and Synthetics.  And merging them in machines or even totally obliterating them actually causes this.  For 50 thousand years, there's no war between machines and mans.  Now, with consciences, we can clearly see that he's missing the point, but from a TECHNICAL, mechanical definition, he wins.

Problem is, with this change to his emphasis-preserving the balance, which he just blew out of the water by rebelling against his creators and turning them into a reaper, there's a new issue in all the conflicts Shepard helped resolve.  Shepard, a human, an organic doesn't need to control the reapers to become the catalyst and do what the catalyst was supposed to do.  Shepard already did this as a real person.  Again, in fact, it's the reapers that have disrupted the balance, therefore the kid caused the imbalance with the presence of the reapers, his creators that wanted the balance they now threaten.  Remove the reapers and the balance is there.  Shepard had been always about finding common ground between battling groups and did so even before the reapers ever came along.  At least one type of Shepard did.

This again makes the presence of the kid and the reapers a circular logic thing.  Shepard can prove but again does not back this up with what's happened, that s/he already has done what the kid couldn't.  And Shepard never says to the kid that he created the problem in the first place by what he did.  Sure the crazier kid may not care at all about any of this, but it shows the whole artificial nature of the inclusion of this new reason.  It may even be worse than the first, because Shepard the person found balance and may now have to become a polar opposite to EDI, in being a shackled AI in order to achieve the balance s/he already achieved in human form, if control is chosen.  And synthesis is still what the even crazier kid was trying to achieve.  So, he's crazier and what he wanted to make happen makes more sense?  Destroy, well that like war never changes.  Same old torso, same old rubble, different longer cutscenes with more Hackett, less Shepard.

You mean is the case of YOUR Shepard not mine. In the control ending Shepard use the reapers has a force to protect, he does not continu the cycle of the kid. For me this ending fit with my Shepard. Why an organic being will not want to become more a god in order to pretect what he trust in it? The endings do not fit with your Shep this do not mean it do not fit with the Shepards of others.

Modifié par Wesker1984, 27 juin 2012 - 05:00 .

[BlueStorm83]

3DandBeyond wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...

---  That's my point.  They didn't need to make him likeable or anything.  they juse needed to suspend my Disbelief.

Also, I didn't make the Master Mold connection.  I considered him more like Brainiac from Superman.  Learn all about a civilization, preserve it... as data...  Then BLOW IT THE MUTHA **** UP!!!!  WOOOO, CRAZY ROBOT!

Sure, he's still stupid and WAY too literalistic, but at least now he's not contradicting himself within one sentence.  And honestly?  Even his end goal has changed.  He's not trying to preserve Organics by killing Evil Synthetics... as he kills Organics with Evil Synthetics.  Now he's trying to maintain a non-violent state between Organics and Synthetics.  And merging them in machines or even totally obliterating them actually causes this.  For 50 thousand years, there's no war between machines and mans.  Now, with consciences, we can clearly see that he's missing the point, but from a TECHNICAL, mechanical definition, he wins.

Problem is, with this change to his emphasis-preserving the balance, which he just blew out of the water by rebelling against his creators and turning them into a reaper, there's a new issue in all the conflicts Shepard helped resolve.  Shepard, a human, an organic doesn't need to control the reapers to become the catalyst and do what the catalyst was supposed to do.  Shepard already did this as a real person.  Again, in fact, it's the reapers that have disrupted the balance, therefore the kid caused the imbalance with the presence of the reapers, his creators that wanted the balance they now threaten.  Remove the reapers and the balance is there.  Shepard had been always about finding common ground between battling groups and did so even before the reapers ever came along.  At least one type of Shepard did.

This again makes the presence of the kid and the reapers a circular logic thing.  Shepard can prove but again does not back this up with what's happened, that s/he already has done what the kid couldn't.  And Shepard never says to the kid that he created the problem in the first place by what he did.  Sure the crazier kid may not care at all about any of this, but it shows the whole artificial nature of the inclusion of this new reason.  It may even be worse than the first, because Shepard the person found balance and may now have to become a polar opposite to EDI, in being a shackled AI in order to achieve the balance s/he already achieved in human form, if control is chosen.  And synthesis is still what the even crazier kid was trying to achieve.  So, he's crazier and what he wanted to make happen makes more sense?  Destroy, well that like war never changes.  Same old torso, same old rubble, different longer cutscenes with more Hackett, less Shepard.

But he didn't upset the balance.  He merged his creators with their machines.  See?  Harmony.

Absolute moronic monstrous completely missing the point of what they wanted when they TOLD him to make peace between them.  But TECHNICALLY, his creators (part of a reaper) can never again come into conflict with the machines they made (part of the same reaper.)

Also, in his new role and definition, he's not there to promote mere peace or preservation.  He's there for togetherness.  The Geth Rebellion ending didn't result in harmony: it resulted in schism.  The Geth were totally split off from their creators.  Uh oh, that doesn't sound harmonious.  Time to integrate them all into the Reaper Mind.  It's not just balance.  It's that the Catalyst's creators made him to facilitate togetherness, understanding, and oneness between them and the Synthetics they made (which he seems to say were the reapers.)  He took it to a WAY sick place, but he's still working toward that sick definition of togetherness.

[BlueStorm83]

Wesker1984 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...

---  That's my point.  They didn't need to make him likeable or anything.  they juse needed to suspend my Disbelief.

Also, I didn't make the Master Mold connection.  I considered him more like Brainiac from Superman.  Learn all about a civilization, preserve it... as data...  Then BLOW IT THE MUTHA **** UP!!!!  WOOOO, CRAZY ROBOT!

Sure, he's still stupid and WAY too literalistic, but at least now he's not contradicting himself within one sentence.  And honestly?  Even his end goal has changed.  He's not trying to preserve Organics by killing Evil Synthetics... as he kills Organics with Evil Synthetics.  Now he's trying to maintain a non-violent state between Organics and Synthetics.  And merging them in machines or even totally obliterating them actually causes this.  For 50 thousand years, there's no war between machines and mans.  Now, with consciences, we can clearly see that he's missing the point, but from a TECHNICAL, mechanical definition, he wins.

Problem is, with this change to his emphasis-preserving the balance, which he just blew out of the water by rebelling against his creators and turning them into a reaper, there's a new issue in all the conflicts Shepard helped resolve.  Shepard, a human, an organic doesn't need to control the reapers to become the catalyst and do what the catalyst was supposed to do.  Shepard already did this as a real person.  Again, in fact, it's the reapers that have disrupted the balance, therefore the kid caused the imbalance with the presence of the reapers, his creators that wanted the balance they now threaten.  Remove the reapers and the balance is there.  Shepard had been always about finding common ground between battling groups and did so even before the reapers ever came along.  At least one type of Shepard did.

This again makes the presence of the kid and the reapers a circular logic thing.  Shepard can prove but again does not back this up with what's happened, that s/he already has done what the kid couldn't.  And Shepard never says to the kid that he created the problem in the first place by what he did.  Sure the crazier kid may not care at all about any of this, but it shows the whole artificial nature of the inclusion of this new reason.  It may even be worse than the first, because Shepard the person found balance and may now have to become a polar opposite to EDI, in being a shackled AI in order to achieve the balance s/he already achieved in human form, if control is chosen.  And synthesis is still what the even crazier kid was trying to achieve.  So, he's crazier and what he wanted to make happen makes more sense?  Destroy, well that like war never changes.  Same old torso, same old rubble, different longer cutscenes with more Hackett, less Shepard.

You mean is the case of YOUR Shepard not mine. In the control ending Shepard use the reapers has a force to protect, he does not continu the cycle of the kid. For me this ending fit with my Shepard. Why an organic being will not want to become more a god in order to pretect what he trust in it? The endings do not fit with your Shep this do not mean it do not fit with the Shepards of others.

---  Again, saying that YOUR Shepard can do something doesn't make that not broken.  Mass Effect is only whole when ANY Shepard can get through a situation while remaining that same Shepard.

[Voodoo2015]

Wesker1984 wrote...

You mean is the case of YOUR Shepard not mine. In the control ending Shepard use the reapers has a force to protect, he does not continu the cycle of the kid. For me this ending fit with my Shepard. Why an organic being will not want to become more a god in order to pretect what he trust in it? The ending do not fit with your Shep this do not mean it do not fit with the Shepards of others.

For how long I wonder! I'm just speculating. If you play with the thought Shep will live as a catalyst for millions of years and space will become over populated. What will Shepard do? He has power.

Modifié par Voodoo2015, 27 juin 2012 - 05:05 .

[Wesker1984]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

Wesker1984 wrote...

*snipped*

Everyone say this not the way Shepard who will act, i think you should say this is not the way YOUR Shepard or YOU will act but in my case i see my Shepard as a iconic hero who live only to protect the things he have faith in it and will do whatever it take to stop a danger to come even sacrifice his own existence and this is way the control ending fitting with my Shepard because it served the purpose i saw throught my Shepard and i loved the irony in that ending, you fight to stop them in three games and you end up controling what you wanted to destroy and used them as a force to protect entire civilasations becoming less a man and more a god.

The point about that is that if there's even ONE Shepard that would never make those choices, then the game is broken.  If this were Gears of War, Marcus Fenix could make any choice he wants.  We never got to infuse Marcus with our own personalities.  We couldn't craft his face or his history.  That's a true Third Person Narrative.

Mass Effect, while being a third person shooter RPG, is actually more of a Second Person Narrative.  You know, like a "Choose your own adventure" novel.  "You walk down the hall and see three doors.  A Red Door, a Blue Door, and a Green Door.  What do you do?"  Well, any human being in that situation would have five options.  He has the three doors.  He can stand there and do nothing.  OR he can even turn around and go home.  Going back to Marcus, and his third person narrative...  "Marcus walks down the hall and sees three doors.  He SAWS THE RED DOOR IN HALF, and kicks the **** out of whatever was on the other side."  No choice there, Marcus is a fleshed out character on auto pilot.  That's just what Marcus would do.  He wouldn't merge humanity with the Locust (green door) and he wouldn't become the Locust Queen (Blue door.)  He didn't even OPEN the red door, he sawed it in half!  Ah, but Shepard.  He could open the doors, he could turn around, he could contemplate the nature of doors, he could talk to the doors, he could dance poorly in front of the doors.  And it was always our choice of what to do.

Just because your Shepard was fine with someone shoving him toward those doors, unable to stop, unable to turn around, doesn't make that same situation valid for MY Shepard, would had always said, "Quit pushing me, ****head, I make my own way."

I never said if it work with my Shepard it works with the Shepards of the others. Just because your Shepard is not fine with someone shoving him/her towards those doors doesn't make that situation invalid for MY Shepard.

And i never said the game itself is not broken in its story buddy. I understand were the problem is
and i understand your point of view but the game at it is work for me now. Changing the opinions of the others is not my intentions, i just share my point of view and explaining why it works for me.

Modifié par Wesker1984, 27 juin 2012 - 05:14 .

[BlueStorm83]

--- Breaking news??? I just read an article out there saying that the Extended Cut isn't the last Extension out there...

Apparently, there's a new Single Player DLC in the works. It involves going to a dig site on a planet (This is usually a lot of fun, and turns out well for Shep!) where we're trying to find a scientist or something to help with the war effort. Long story short: we meet a Reaper named Leviathan. Sounds interesting to me. They also say it can give us a hell of a War Asset if we play our cards right...

[Voodoo2015]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

--- Breaking news??? I just read an article out there saying that the Extended Cut isn't the last Extension out there...

Apparently, there's a new Single Player DLC in the works. It involves going to a dig site on a planet (This is usually a lot of fun, and turns out well for Shep!) where we're trying to find a scientist or something to help with the war effort. Long story short: we meet a Reaper named Leviathan. Sounds interesting to me. They also say it can give us a hell of a War Asset if we play our cards right...

But the endings will be the same!

But ok it can be fun. then i hope it does do something to the endings!

[Tup3x]

I'm pretty happy with the ending now, I felt quite happy after finishing it. They did listen to the community.

[3DandBeyond]

Wesker1984 wrote...

You mean is the case of YOUR Shepard not mine. In the control ending Shepard use the reapers has a force to protect, he does not continu the cycle of the kid. For me this ending fit with my Shepard. Why an organic being will not want to become more a god in order to pretect what he trust in it? The endings do not fit with your Shep this do not mean it do not fit with the Shepards of others.

Yes, but that's the problem.  Everyone played their Shepard's differently and did things based on that.  That means if my Shepard was forgotten or if yours was, then that's a failure of the game.  All Shepards needed to be considered.

And @Bluestorm83,

I have yet to see anyone even try to look at it from the view of people who feared the Reapers and probably don't want to see them exist at all, even if Controlled by THE Shepard.  If they turned my husband into goo, I don't want them fixing my car.  And I may fight to get people to help me get rid of them.  Control will only maintain the balance or harmony through fear.  And Shepard as the Catalyst might end up just as twisted as they are. 

If you control them and someone hates them and tries to destroy one of them, what then do you do?  Maybe that person is Liara, your Shepard's love interest and she's gotten groups of Asari together with Cains and with EDI's help to do what everyone wanted to do, destroy the reapers that still have people goo in them.  What do you as the bodiless reaper overseer do?

What if some group tries to take over the reapers for their own use?  Do you send the reapers to destroy them before they actually come up with a good plan to do so?

Power corrupts.  Absolute power corrupts absolutely.  Shepard becomes a god, and feelings are removed.  Soul made of tech.  Heart made of tech.  Shepard has not control chip and is still the sum of the imperfection of having been a human being.  His/her thoughts may merge with the reapers, but it takes a god to decide how to split the baby-the wisdom of Solomon and more.  What then would Shepard do with all the hard decisions ahead?  The Krogan are no longer needed because there's the great protector in the sky.  Do you honestly believe the Krogan would be happy with that?  Balance and harmony can't be achieved because this restarts the original Krogan problem unless the reapers just begin exterminating Krogan.

Shepard would have to become a badass and would have to instill fear in order to maintain order and so that the reapers would not have to kill anyone.  Unless they get "hungry".  There's still no explanation as to how they remain "alive" and that may also have been a part of the original need for turning the creators into reapers.  And that again goes back to an original stated reason as to why the reapers were harvesting organics, not all the gobbledigook.


I know this is only one choice, Control, but I still hold onto all my complaints as to choosing Synthesis and Destroy--they remain valid.  My complaints on control are also from what many of us extrapolated might be what they meant by saying Shepard died choosing it (we figured that made no sense).  I don't see these choices as being anything more than more explicit and based on an even crazier kid.

[3DandBeyond]

Voodoo2015 wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...

--- Breaking news??? I just read an article out there saying that the Extended Cut isn't the last Extension out there...

Apparently, there's a new Single Player DLC in the works. It involves going to a dig site on a planet (This is usually a lot of fun, and turns out well for Shep!) where we're trying to find a scientist or something to help with the war effort. Long story short: we meet a Reaper named Leviathan. Sounds interesting to me. They also say it can give us a hell of a War Asset if we play our cards right...

But the endings will be the same!

But ok it can be fun. then i hope it does do something to the endings!

The Leviathans of Dis.  There's some postings about it here and a text dump on pastebin about it.  I did a search within it and Shepard's name is in it, but it's unknown as to when it is to occur within the ME universe timeframe.  The Leviathan is an unarmored or some such reaper from a lonnnnnnng time ago.

[akenn312]

BlueStorm83 wrote..

---  That's my point.  They didn't need to make him likeable or anything.  they juse needed to suspend my Disbelief.

Also, I didn't make the Master Mold connection.  I considered him more like Brainiac from Superman.  Learn all about a civilization, preserve it... as data...  Then BLOW IT THE MUTHA **** UP!!!!  WOOOO, CRAZY ROBOT!

Sure, he's still stupid and WAY too literalistic, but at least now he's not contradicting himself within one sentence.  And honestly?  Even his end goal has changed.  He's not trying to preserve Organics by killing Evil Synthetics... as he kills Organics with Evil Synthetics.  Now he's trying to maintain a non-violent state between Organics and Synthetics.  And merging them in machines or even totally obliterating them actually causes this.  For 50 thousand years, there's no war between machines and mans.  Now, with consciences, we can clearly see that he's missing the point, but from a TECHNICAL, mechanical definition, he wins.

I totally agree, good look on the Braniac reference too. I can see that as well. To me here is what it really comes down too and you and others mentioned this in previous posts. SHOULD HAVE ALL BEEN THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

This problem has kinda been there about Mass Effect but the ending really blew it out of the water, Bioware has a major issue with storytelling in their games. Sometimes they are really good at it and can really make great plots that are meticulous to detail have good character development and are somewhat logical …but sometimes like the first ending presentation "WOW" they can really miss the mark and go  "Ready, Fire, Aim! on us. No thinking about if it makes sense or looks out of place with the previous storytelling, they just start throwing stuff in and expecting kudos all around and expect us to finish it for them.

Personally I am good with the EC because I can see that this is the best that they can come up with, when I saw the Normandy land right in front of Harbinger I just instantly understood these guys just write like this and it will always be, very, very frustrating at times. But the characters they made make up for it. Hopefully after they see the positive feedback they will finally get it that not everyone wants to headcanon everything. Some of us like seeing the epilogues, and enjoy actually hearing the characters feelings or monologues or getting to ask about the villains motivation. Nothing wrong with that.

Modifié par akenn312, 27 juin 2012 - 05:29 .

[Wesker1984]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Wesker1984 wrote...

You mean is the case of YOUR Shepard not mine. In the control ending Shepard use the reapers has a force to protect, he does not continu the cycle of the kid. For me this ending fit with my Shepard. Why an organic being will not want to become more a god in order to pretect what he trust in it? The endings do not fit with your Shep this do not mean it do not fit with the Shepards of others.

Yes, but that's the problem.  Everyone played their Shepard's differently and did things based on that.  That means if my Shepard was forgotten or if yours was, then that's a failure of the game.  All Shepards needed to be considered.

And @Bluestorm83,

I have yet to see anyone even try to look at it from the view of people who feared the Reapers and probably don't want to see them exist at all, even if Controlled by THE Shepard.  If they turned my husband into goo, I don't want them fixing my car.  And I may fight to get people to help me get rid of them.  Control will only maintain the balance or harmony through fear.  And Shepard as the Catalyst might end up just as twisted as they are. 

If you control them and someone hates them and tries to destroy one of them, what then do you do?  Maybe that person is Liara, your Shepard's love interest and she's gotten groups of Asari together with Cains and with EDI's help to do what everyone wanted to do, destroy the reapers that still have people goo in them.  What do you as the bodiless reaper overseer do?

What if some group tries to take over the reapers for their own use?  Do you send the reapers to destroy them before they actually come up with a good plan to do so?

Power corrupts.  Absolute power corrupts absolutely.  Shepard becomes a god, and feelings are removed.  Soul made of tech.  Heart made of tech.  Shepard has not control chip and is still the sum of the imperfection of having been a human being.  His/her thoughts may merge with the reapers, but it takes a god to decide how to split the baby-the wisdom of Solomon and more.  What then would Shepard do with all the hard decisions ahead?  The Krogan are no longer needed because there's the great protector in the sky.  Do you honestly believe the Krogan would be happy with that?  Balance and harmony can't be achieved because this restarts the original Krogan problem unless the reapers just begin exterminating Krogan.

Shepard would have to become a badass and would have to instill fear in order to maintain order and so that the reapers would not have to kill anyone.  Unless they get "hungry".  There's still no explanation as to how they remain "alive" and that may also have been a part of the original need for turning the creators into reapers.  And that again goes back to an original stated reason as to why the reapers were harvesting organics, not all the gobbledigook.


I know this is only one choice, Control, but I still hold onto all my complaints as to choosing Synthesis and Destroy--they remain valid.  My complaints on control are also from what many of us extrapolated might be what they meant by saying Shepard died choosing it (we figured that made no sense).  I don't see these choices as being anything more than more explicit and based on an even crazier kid.

I got your points but since yes all those things is not really explained the control ending is up for peoples interpretation but you just make me realise that this ending can fit even with a renegade Shepard whatever the way you see it and i think this is that way Bioware wanted us to view the endings maybe.

Modifié par Wesker1984, 27 juin 2012 - 05:33 .

[Redbelle]

Wesker1984 wrote...

*snipped*



I never said if it work with my Shepard it works with the Shepards of the others. Just because your Shepard is not fine with someone shoving him/her towards those doors doesn't make that situation invalid for MY Shepard.

Is this a Shepard tug of war? Cause I'd like to know if going for the synthesis option and throwing my Shepard into the ring would make it a threeway.

Well ME has certainly stimulated debate not only in, how the rules of writing stories should be paid homage too and ignored at ones own peril, but now we've gone into the story choice mechanics of gameplay design.

The simple fact is this, as a game you have to move forward to earn a resolution. Since KOTOR the way in which this is achieved has evolved beyond an 'on the rails' experience. Sort of........

See, in order to move forward we still need to abide by the game design of the designers. The Designers can make the game a single track game where nothing happens except what is put in by the Designers. Or you can play a multi-track game where you are still moving forward according to what the designers want you to do.......... but you have a choice as to what route you take to do it............ And the key thing about this sort of game is that in one playthrough, at each branch point, you only get one choice out of the many. Therefore, the first time around you have to make what you feel is the right choice.

Mass Effect does something similar but with a trilogy there has come a twist.......

Suddenly after a few playthroughs you are no longer designing 'your' prefered Shep. Your designing 'a certain type' of Shep. I've been reading about how ppl have been imbuing Shepards with personality that is mostly P or mostly R or a combination of the two. I've read how Shep's are fine kicking mooks out of windows but just can't press the genocide on the Racni as it's a step too far for their character.

Going back through the ME games has given ppl the opportunity to approach events forearmed as what will happen, thereby giving them the option to play the game according to how they percieve their Shep would handle the situation. suddenly the blank slate that is Shep takes on a variety of characters and permutations.

[Voodoo2015]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Voodoo2015 wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...

--- Breaking news??? I just read an article out there saying that the Extended Cut isn't the last Extension out there...

Apparently, there's a new Single Player DLC in the works. It involves going to a dig site on a planet (This is usually a lot of fun, and turns out well for Shep!) where we're trying to find a scientist or something to help with the war effort. Long story short: we meet a Reaper named Leviathan. Sounds interesting to me. They also say it can give us a hell of a War Asset if we play our cards right...

But the endings will be the same!

But ok it can be fun. then i hope it does do something to the endings!

The Leviathans of Dis.  There's some postings about it here and a text dump on pastebin about it.  I did a search within it and Shepard's name is in it, but it's unknown as to when it is to occur within the ME universe timeframe.  The Leviathan is an unarmored or some such reaper from a lonnnnnnng time ago.

Sounds cool. Then we will see!

[Redbelle]

Voodoo2015 wrote...

Wesker1984 wrote...

You mean is the case of YOUR Shepard not mine. In the control ending Shepard use the reapers has a force to protect, he does not continu the cycle of the kid. For me this ending fit with my Shepard. Why an organic being will not want to become more a god in order to pretect what he trust in it? The ending do not fit with your Shep this do not mean it do not fit with the Shepards of others.

For how long I wonder! I'm just speculating. If you play with the thought Shep will live as a catalyst for millions of years and space will become over populated. What will Shepard do? He has power.

He can rebuild the galaxy...... better, stronger, faster........

He has the technology.....

Shepard can be that....... Cata.....Reap..... thing. Better than he was before

Modifié par Redbelle, 27 juin 2012 - 05:38 .

[BlueStorm83]

3DandBeyond wrote...

And @Bluestorm83,

I have yet to see anyone even try to look at it from the view of people who feared the Reapers and probably don't want to see them exist at all, even if Controlled by THE Shepard.  If they turned my husband into goo, I don't want them fixing my car.  And I may fight to get people to help me get rid of them.  Control will only maintain the balance or harmony through fear.  And Shepard as the Catalyst might end up just as twisted as they are. 

If you control them and someone hates them and tries to destroy one of them, what then do you do?  Maybe that person is Liara, your Shepard's love interest and she's gotten groups of Asari together with Cains and with EDI's help to do what everyone wanted to do, destroy the reapers that still have people goo in them.  What do you as the bodiless reaper overseer do?

What if some group tries to take over the reapers for their own use?  Do you send the reapers to destroy them before they actually come up with a good plan to do so?

Power corrupts.  Absolute power corrupts absolutely.  Shepard becomes a god, and feelings are removed.  Soul made of tech.  Heart made of tech.  Shepard has not control chip and is still the sum of the imperfection of having been a human being.  His/her thoughts may merge with the reapers, but it takes a god to decide how to split the baby-the wisdom of Solomon and more.  What then would Shepard do with all the hard decisions ahead?  The Krogan are no longer needed because there's the great protector in the sky.  Do you honestly believe the Krogan would be happy with that?  Balance and harmony can't be achieved because this restarts the original Krogan problem unless the reapers just begin exterminating Krogan.

Shepard would have to become a badass and would have to instill fear in order to maintain order and so that the reapers would not have to kill anyone.  Unless they get "hungry".  There's still no explanation as to how they remain "alive" and that may also have been a part of the original need for turning the creators into reapers.  And that again goes back to an original stated reason as to why the reapers were harvesting organics, not all the gobbledigook.


I know this is only one choice, Control, but I still hold onto all my complaints as to choosing Synthesis and Destroy--they remain valid.  My complaints on control are also from what many of us extrapolated might be what they meant by saying Shepard died choosing it (we figured that made no sense).  I don't see these choices as being anything more than more explicit and based on an even crazier kid.

Oh, I totally agree, none of the choices are perfect.  I played out all 5 myself (tell the kid to go to hell for Refusal, or just shoot him for Refusal, I count those as 2, even though they're the same.)

At least since Control confirms that Shepard is still Shepard now, I can make the leap that Shepard would continue to act as Shepard.  And since Shepard acted as me, I think he'd do a pretty good job as Reaperd.  If people attacked a Reaper- have it fly away and leave them alone.  They want to rebuild on their own, that's their perrogative.  Freedom.  I'd also not interfere in anyone else's wars.  That's not my place.  If anyone wanted to ally with my Reapers for economic or resource related reasons, that's fine.  But no violence.  Reapers as a destructive force would be over.

I don't know if Reapers actually need any kind of organic replenishment.  If they do: well, then the Organic Ones would die off.  All life ends eventually, and these things are old enough as it is.  There would be no new reapers built.  That's that.

There's no need to maintain order.  The Catalyst is gone.  Don't need balance, don't need harmony.  People would find their own way.  If that means that the Krogan would overrun the Galaxy, well, that happens then.  Not my place to deny them their nature.  Whatever's strongest would survive.  That's life.

[RamilVenoard]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

--- Breaking news??? I just read an article out there saying that the Extended Cut isn't the last Extension out there...

Apparently, there's a new Single Player DLC in the works. It involves going to a dig site on a planet (This is usually a lot of fun, and turns out well for Shep!) where we're trying to find a scientist or something to help with the war effort. Long story short: we meet a Reaper named Leviathan. Sounds interesting to me. They also say it can give us a hell of a War Asset if we play our cards right...

Will there be Miri in it? Gimme Miri or GTFO! Lol I kid but this could be quite interesting. Especially if Leviathan is more focused upon rhetoric like Sovereign, and less focused upon being an annoying **** like Harby.

Seriously, how is it that the first reaper made me quake in my chair simply by speaking, and the lead reaper made me just laugh? But that being said, I'd buy this. And I'd pay double if it meant they stopped screwing over people who had ME2 LIs...

[BlueStorm83]

RamilVenoard wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...

--- Breaking news??? I just read an article out there saying that the Extended Cut isn't the last Extension out there...

Apparently, there's a new Single Player DLC in the works. It involves going to a dig site on a planet (This is usually a lot of fun, and turns out well for Shep!) where we're trying to find a scientist or something to help with the war effort. Long story short: we meet a Reaper named Leviathan. Sounds interesting to me. They also say it can give us a hell of a War Asset if we play our cards right...

Will there be Miri in it? Gimme Miri or GTFO! Lol I kid but this could be quite interesting. Especially if Leviathan is more focused upon rhetoric like Sovereign, and less focused upon being an annoying **** like Harby.

Seriously, how is it that the first reaper made me quake in my chair simply by speaking, and the lead reaper made me just laugh? But that being said, I'd buy this. And I'd pay double if it meant they stopped screwing over people who had ME2 LIs...

Actually, if what I read is true, Leviathan is focussed on beating the moronic little **** who turned him into a Reaper in the first place, since apparently whatever damage he suffered severed him from the Reaper Collective Intelligence, and he regained free thought.

[Voodoo2015]

Redbelle wrote...

Voodoo2015 wrote...

Wesker1984 wrote...

You mean is the case of YOUR Shepard not mine. In the control ending Shepard use the reapers has a force to protect, he does not continu the cycle of the kid. For me this ending fit with my Shepard. Why an organic being will not want to become more a god in order to pretect what he trust in it? The ending do not fit with your Shep this do not mean it do not fit with the Shepards of others.

For how long I wonder! I'm just speculating. If you play with the thought Shep will live as a catalyst for millions of years and space will become over populated. What will Shepard do? He has power.

He can rebuild the galaxy...... faster, stronger, better than before........

He has the technology.....

Might happen. What if a galactic war breaks out?

[Redbelle]

The thing is........ in control...... Shepards dialogue sounded a bit......... distant from him/herself.

And to say that Shep personality is, for lack of a better term, encased in amber and will not change, either in motivation or outlook according to events makes me see ConShep in a fixed, unmoving state that cannot adapt.

[BlueStorm83]

Voodoo2015 wrote...

*snipped*

Might happen. What if a galactic war breaks out?

We'd all have to assume that our Shepard would act like Our Shepard in that case.  MY Shepard would either not interfere at all, or he would back whatever side he felt had the moral right.

This isn't really speculation, since the Epilogue Scene (for me, at least) showed Shepard remembering the sacrifices that his friends made, and valuing their lives as highly as he had when he was a cyborg human whatever in the games.

*edit here:  Yeah, he did seem a bit odd at first, but as it went on it sounded more like himself.  The music in the background could have been a little less Reapery, too.  But again, remembering Mordin, Thane, and Legion as guideposts of staying true to himself seems to be a fine way to do it.

Modifié par BlueStorm83, 27 juin 2012 - 05:45 .

[Redbelle]

RamilVenoard wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...

--- Breaking news??? I just read an article out there saying that the Extended Cut isn't the last Extension out there...

Apparently, there's a new Single Player DLC in the works. It involves going to a dig site on a planet (This is usually a lot of fun, and turns out well for Shep!) where we're trying to find a scientist or something to help with the war effort. Long story short: we meet a Reaper named Leviathan. Sounds interesting to me. They also say it can give us a hell of a War Asset if we play our cards right...

Will there be Miri in it? Gimme Miri or GTFO! Lol I kid but this could be quite interesting. Especially if Leviathan is more focused upon rhetoric like Sovereign, and less focused upon being an annoying **** like Harby.

Seriously, how is it that the first reaper made me quake in my chair simply by speaking, and the lead reaper made me just laugh? But that being said, I'd buy this. And I'd pay double if it meant they stopped screwing over people who had ME2 LIs...

It may be that BW have taken the feedback from the EC DLC and split it up so that our request to down Harby will instead become, down Leviathan..... or not, Leviathan as I understand it is a Reaper Traitor that killed one of it's own kind.

Should be interesting. Just waiting for details to be confirmed........

[Thanatos144]

Last time in the thread seeing as I am upsetting some children.......Just saying loved the ending and the game.

[Voodoo2015]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

Voodoo2015 wrote...

*snipped*

Might happen. What if a galactic war breaks out?

We'd all have to assume that our Shepard would act like Our Shepard in that case.  MY Shepard would either not interfere at all, or he would back whatever side he felt had the moral right.

This isn't really speculation, since the Epilogue Scene (for me, at least) showed Shepard remembering the sacrifices that his friends made, and valuing their lives as highly as he had when he was a cyborg human whatever in the games.

As I wrote before, let's play with the idea. It's just speculation just for fun!
So whatever cross you'r mind.