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Mass Effect 3 Extended Cut DLC Coming June 26


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#2251
BlueStorm83

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KiganMatsuei wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...

---  Did you not have enough EMS to get the Alien Stargazer scene?  Even doing that leads to the Reapers being defeated, albeit later.

  As for there not being a perfect, happy ending?  Everyone, really, suck it up.  We had BROKEN endings before.  Now they're all explained, and even though they're not perfect and wrapped up in a bow, at least you don't have to make assumptions that run counter to things that were 100% SHOWN to us in gameplay before.


Beating them later was not the purpose of the Shepard. Throwing everything away by being true to himself - against all odds and unwilling to compromise who he is - is telling us that ultimately Shepard is a failure to all who trusted in him. The other, compromise who he is options, at least save some and give them a chance for the future. They don't throw away EVERYTHING we accomplished.

In ME3, we could possibly:

Broker peace between Krogans and Turians
Cure the genophage, leading to Krogan babies
Return the Quarians to their home
Create peace between the Quarians and the Geth

Among other things, plus the prior 2 games. The reject ending takes all of that and throws it away. And I'm supposed to care that a bunch of species I know nothing about were able to defeat the Reapers because Liara somehow knew that the Crucible was BS rather than that they failed? It feels like playing all of it, failing, and being told "feel better" because some alien stargazer from some unknown future race talks about how they all defeated the Reapers. No, they got us attached to these races, not future ones.

It makes it feel like a colossal waste of time playing the games and working to set the united forces up with the best possible chance.


---  Shepard's not a god.  Nothing guarantees that everything will always work out.  I can understand wanting to have it all; I want to have it all too.  I want to tell the kid to go **** himself, and then blow him to hell, save the Geth, settle down with Tali, set Kaiden up with Jack, watch Miranda and Oriana open a Veterinary Clinic, vaccinate Kolyat and all the Drell against Kepral's Syndrome, hug a Volus, teach a Vorcha what it means to have a real friend, kick Aria T'loak out of a window, finally learn how to dance, and genetically engineer Male Asari, so they can stop trying to **** everything that moves and be a normal species.

But we don't have control over the situation.  All we have control over is Shepard.  Shepard's purpose is the purpose we give him.  His purpose can be to save humanity, it can be to save all organic life, it can be to save all life in every form, it can be to broker eternal peace, it can be to remain true to himself at all cost, it can be whatever we choose.

I don't believe that the 4 options are ideal options.  Not by a long shot.  But I do recognize that once again we have control over Shepard.  What could Shepard, just SHEPARD do in that situation to bring about any outcome besides the 4 we see?

All I can think of for Shepard to do would be to somehow destroy the Catalyst alone, and leave the Reapers as they are.  I have NO idea how he would do that, since the Catalyst says to us "I'm all Reaper intelligence combined."  So, like, he's the Reaper version of the Geth Consensus, or the Borg Collective, or whatever.  He's not really corporeal.  We'd need to find his main server, or at least unplug some big old Linksys Router in the citadel to turn him off.  And in the situation that Shepard is in, there's no server around, there's no router.  I tried finding a way around the beam, hoping that there was a 5th choice behind it, or something.  There isn't.  Maybe in a future ending DLC?  Like, The Mass Effect Final Cut.

---  But any way, please don't misunderstand.  My ACCEPTANCE of the current endings is me acknowledging that as the single man Shepard, battered and bloodied, I can still act in any capacity that occurs to me, given his current situation.

And that's not the same as the artificial "well, there's no dialogue option, so that's the situation."  That's not real, not even Videogame Real.  Would I want a better way out?  Yes.  Would I want to continue recruiting different species and planets and everything until we can kill the Reapers without any kind of compromise?  **** yes.  But I have to concede that this less than ideal situation is at least not broken.  And a ****ty working ending is a metric ****ton better than a ****ty broken ending.

#2252
BlueStorm83

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Aegisje wrote...

The only thing i wanted explained is why shepard killed the whole universe by blowing up all the mass relays....


He didn't now.  There are no little explosions, and we just see the little Mass Gyros kinda falling out of the Relay.  No ruptures, no explosions.  It just fires a beam and the little whatever it is breaks peacefully.

Sure, we've never seen a Relay just kinda break.  But in EVERY case where we've seen explosions or ruptures it's been bad, so at least this is believable.  Especially coupled with the Epilogues where we can see that everyone's not dead.  Suspension of Disbelief.

#2253
Redbelle

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BlueStorm83 wrote...

Aegisje wrote...

The only thing i wanted explained is why shepard killed the whole universe by blowing up all the mass relays....


He didn't now.  There are no little explosions, and we just see the little Mass Gyros kinda falling out of the Relay.  No ruptures, no explosions.  It just fires a beam and the little whatever it is breaks peacefully.

Sure, we've never seen a Relay just kinda break.  But in EVERY case where we've seen explosions or ruptures it's been bad, so at least this is believable.  Especially coupled with the Epilogues where we can see that everyone's not dead.  Suspension of Disbelief.


Aye, BW even went so far as to post stuff on the internet and state in official interviews that the galaxy had not been blown up.

TBH I think alot of what went into the original ending was put in their because it 'looked' cool. Mass relays exploding, Normandies desperate race against the wave......... It looked engaging but looking good played second fiddle to the implications of looking good.

Anyhow, galaxy still alive and kicking, Shepard is a plaque on the wall, (or is he? hmmmmm). And Garrus got his N7 jacket.

Garrus: The plan worked! Thanks for the help catalyst.

Catalyst: Was it really worth the jacket?

Garrus: ................ Yes.

#2254
Jvolikas

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Just dd the Destroy ending again and it still feels the best by far. Control is still a gamble and Synthesis is still an abomination, but Destroy is tolerable. Yes its sad to lose EDI and the Geth but war does require sacrifice. I never expected to make it out of the end of ME3 without some new casualties. And the fact that the relays arent destroyed (and must be rebuilt fairly quickly since Wrex and Eve hold baby Mordin on Tuchanka) gives me a lot more hope about the galaxy as a whole.

And, Hackett. Win.

#2255
TrevorHill

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Ok. It's time for some extremely long-winded constructive criticism which will definitely set off your TL;DR alarms and, by it's nature, is unqualified since I'm just a blank face on the internet. But, nonetheless, here it is. First, a forward:
I would like to begin by pointing out that although my sarcasm may seem abrasive, I assure you that no malice is intended and it's all in good sport. Also, since the star-child is essentially that crotchety old man from "The Matrix", I will refer to it henceforth as "the COM", because it amuses me. I'd also like to try to qualify my opinions a little more within the context of this subject by explaining my history with "Mass Effect".
I first heard about Mass Effect from some of my friends who said it was really cool, and that I should definitely check it out. At the time, however, I didn't have an Xbox. When I purchased one, I watched some reviews for the game and decided to take a chance and by it outright. When I started playing it, I realized how awesome it was right away. But for me, the thing that made me love it was the scientific plausibility of everything in the game. If you ask "Star Trek" how warp drives work, they'll respond, "It warps space". How? "We don't know". If you ask "Mass Effect", how does a mass effect field work? They'll respond, "You run an electrical current through neutron matter and it creates negative mass". And it's plausible because no one knows what would happen if you did that. So I'm thinking, "damn, Bioware knows their sh*t". And then "Mass Effect 2" came out. By then I had already grown to care about the characters as well, and I couldn't wait to get it. I'm really stingy with my money and if I want a game, I wait a year or two until it's like $20 used. I bought that game the day it came out for full price. And, being that I was still in high school at the time, I was grounded when I bought it and couldn't play it for two weeks. That was a torture I wouldn't wish on my worst enemies. But when I played it my face was blown off. I got a "Mass Effect 2" T-shirt, and I was the biggest fan-boy. People would be like, "don't talk sh*t about Mass Effect around him, or he'll kick your teeth in". And then "Mass Effect 3" came out, and all bets were off for my wallet. I don't really by games any more. When a new one comes out, I really don't care. Man, when that game hit it was like a "shut up and take my money" moment. And it was crazy awesome until the last 10 minutes or so, which brings me to the point of this thesis statement of a post; the super-constructive criticism, which I hope is a little more qualified now.
I could talk about the original ending, but since it was mostly fixed I won't. This is for the EC. And I do appreciate the fact that Bioware did anything to fix the ending, so mad props for that, but criticism comes with the turf So first, what was good:
The part where the Normandy picks up your squad explains how they got on the ship in the first place. Although it doesn't really make sense that they would dip out when they were literally 10 feet away form the conduit, but that's being nit-picky. And who knows, maybe Harbinger is near-sighted, or reapers have black-gray color-blindness. There are plenty of reasons Harbinger could have not shot the Normandy to sh*t. So overall, win. +1
I have to say that I really liked how the COM got fixed. It really makes sense now, and I really dug it. Also the reject ending was actually really cool. Everyone wanted to be able to tell the COM to screw off, and if you tell the man to screw off in real life you get shot in the d*ck. The same holds true here. So a definite win on that. +1
Now, unfortunately, comes the time where I have to address what was not so good. It's the ending after the crucible fires. I can only speak for myself here, but the two main things I liked about this game are the science and the characters. And in the end, both of those were either broken, or mostly ignored. But before anyone decides I'm being nit-picky, allow me to elaborate:
The science has always been a big part of the franchise as a whole. Hell, the series is named after most important scientific facet in the game. Now, there have been some scientific discrepancies in all of the games, like how most of the crew can go on to the surface of a planet with an atmosphere of chlorine without skin or eye protection and not die, but those parts of science are eschewed in favor of narrative elements, and that's completely cool. The only time it isn't cool, is when the game world itself establishes a set of rules, which it then chooses to break. That is where story cohesion goes out the window. The original ending ended with the mass relays being destroyed, to which the players responded: "But an entire dlc was based around the fact that the energy released if a mass relay were destroyed is equivalent to the energy output of a supernova, and would wipe out an entire star system. We can verify this to be true, because we watched it happen. And even if people managed to survive, it was established that no one knows what makes mass relays work or how they function, aside from the fact that they get you from point A to point B. How would they even know where to start in rebuilding them"? To which the EC replied, "nah, dawg". It answered one question and opened ten more. Ok, so the energy released from the relays didn't kill everything in its vicinity. Why? How did everyone gain the knowledge of how to build a mass relay? And that isn't a small point, either. It was a large part of the series in general that no one knows how the mass relays work, or how to build them. If they figured out how, that's cool, but tell us how. What changed, and what new information did they stumble upon? And then there are the characters.
The other most important things in the game are the characters. Everyone wants to know what happened to the characters. Granted, the state of the galaxy in general was elaborated on further, but most people don't care about millions of blank faces. If your brother was fighting in a war and it ended, and you asked what happened to your brother, and the reply was that they won the war, you would reply that you didn't care and that you just wanted to know what happened to your brother. And the pictures in the slideshow didn't help. We all already knew that everyone who survived to the end of the game was still alive. And we couldn't gain any information as to what was happening because pictures have no context by themselves. The only thing I gleaned from the slideshow of the crew was that everyone really likes to sit. I mean, in Jacob’s, He could have been about to eat those children for all I know. And I didn't know that Liara and Samara are bros. Since when are they bros? The point is that it required context, and it had none. That's why everyone is talking about reunions and all that bulls**t. They just want to know what became of all those characters that they made emotional bonds with.
Now, Those were really all of MY issues, but I will address others' issues as well, mainly Shepard having to die. Mass effect is based around different outcomes, and if Shepard has to die, it veers from that drastically. Hell, even in "Mass Effect 2" when Shepard had to live because there was a third game, he could still die if you did everything wrong. Likewise there could have been a way, maybe if you did the opposite and did everything right, to survive. Making it so no matter how high your EMS is, or what option you choose at the end, or regardless of anything else you did in any of the games, Shepard has to die, is pretty Nihilistic. Hell, even Wayne's World had a really crappy ending and an ultra-super-happy ending. The point is, that in the end of this game about hope for the future, you have to become a god of machine-devils, change the genetic makeup of all life in the galaxy, doom the galaxy to destruction, or commit genocide. Each option is really depressing. And when most people are trying to play games, or partake in any other form of media like this in order to escape the realities of sh*tty, depressing life, only having the option to end it in a depressing way is extra depressing. And it wouldn't make a difference if it was a regular game where you're just along for the ride, with no say in what happens, but this game offers the choice to create an outcome based on what you do. And that is why, having every single outcome end the way it does, makes a lot of people depressed about it. The tragic hero archetype was created by the ancient Greeks to teach people a lesson, and it really doesn't apply anymore, since no one is partaking in media to learn life lessons. It's ok to not have the hero always die in the end, Sophocles be damned. It makes people happy. There's enough sad in real life. It isn't necessary to have all of the endings end that way.
But as I've said before, I do greatly appreciate the fact that the EC was made. This was just a little bit of constructive criticism.

#2256
BlueStorm83

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--- Thinking about the Normandy Pickup Scene again, I really would have liked Harbinger to shoot it once, giving it a little of the damage we see when the Normandy is on Planet Stupid at the end there, since it no longer gets all messed up by riding the wave at the end. But honestly, seeing something else distracting Harbinger might have detracted from the goodbye scene with Tali. So whatever. Not major. Could have been cleaner. Should have been cleaner. But okay.

--- I'd like some DLC where we could kill Harbinger. Just annihilate him. Replace him at the end with any random Reaper.

OH ****! THE REAPER IDC! That might by why Harbinger didn't shoot the Normandy. That could have been an interesting explanation. That it confused Harbinger just long enough for a pickup. And then we could have him go chase the Normandy, explaining why he left. Ah well.

Include that in the Final Cut DLC, okay? Along with the "You've done all our DLC, you've earned a true 100% victory ending, dammit!"

And also give us an episode of "Krogan's Heroes."

#2257
3DandBeyond

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BlueStorm83 wrote...

---  Did you not have enough EMS to get the Alien Stargazer scene?  Even doing that leads to the Reapers being defeated, albeit later.

  As for there not being a perfect, happy ending?  Everyone, really, suck it up.  We had BROKEN endings before.  Now they're all explained, and even though they're not perfect and wrapped up in a bow, at least you don't have to make assumptions that run counter to things that were 100% SHOWN to us in gameplay before.


Hey BlueStorm83---long post and please know I am not mad or attacking you for what you said,

How did it feel before when someone told you to suck it up because you didn't like the endings?  Don't want to argue, but don't tell me how to feel.  The endings for me are still BROKEN.  I'm glad you got enough to make you happy.  I never expected perfect, never.  We all discussed this too before the EC came out and many of us realized a lot of the stuff we didn't like would remain but hoped we would get closure.

And for many yes there is closure in that they didn't mind a Shepard dies ending. I'll admit I'm a female and maybe more emotional about it, but honestly I didn't shed a tear over the first set of endings.  And though I hated it I chose Destroy because the others were so far out of what Shepard would do, and Destroy had always been the goal, that I could somehow convince myself that even though I was killing EDI and the geth, well they would have understood.  I couldn't conceive of leaving the reapers to walk off scott free.

Well, for the EC I again chose Destroy as my ending, but this time I felt even more cornered into choosing it, because I still had horrible choices-I can't conceive of reapers walking around as fix it men and everybody being overjoyed about it while the new godboy or girl Shepard is a shackled AI.  And Synthesis is still the abomination it was.  For me, there's no explaining away such a thing.  In choosing it you decide for everyone what will be--the kid says it couldn't be done before because it couldn't be forced.  Well, so it's ok now because 1 human will say it's ok for trillions of people?  Uh, no-it's still being forced.  And the logic for Synthesis is ridiculous.  People do not seek perfection through technology unless you think everyone is striving to be perfect.  Real people do not seek perfection and if there were such a thing, it is stagnant because there is nowhere to go beyond pefection.  There's no perfect plus.  And the idea of Synthetics and Organics being handed advancements that they have not earned through desire and logical evolution which prepares one by adaptation is abhorrent-it did not work well for the Krogan.

My secondary reason for not choosing either of these is I don't think they do justice to Shepard-it's again suicide by another name.

So, for me it's Destroy.  Oh joy, genocide.  And the ultimate head cannon ending takes away the one bit of head cannon I could cling to and say, "maybe this didn't happen."  EDI's name is on the wall-it's written, my Shepard killed EDI just so I could see my Shepard maybe live.  I can't imagine that away so easily, but beyond that there's no closure for this "selfish" Shepard, this Shepard who never did a damn thing for anyone else except continually save the galaxy and their hides and die for it (in ME2) and kill for it, and give up a real life for it when no one else had the stones to do anything for themselves.  This Shepard has given skin and flesh and bones and everything just to get people to see the threat that everyone thinks s/he should now just go and die for.  Well, my selfish Shepard wanted to destroy the reapers and wipe the smile off of their faces and the face of that brat and my selfish Shepard wanted to make it happen, not wait for some future generation to get it right, because God knows they might make one of the stupider choices.  Oh and my selfish Shepard doesn't think insta-death by rejection is a really fair choice-it's more like the middle finger of the Bioward gods that be.

And so now it's Destroy again and it's basically the same ending with no closure.  It's my imagination because the only right thing for people that don't care about Shepard living or dying is for them to see Shepard die (and even give a bit of a talk in doing the change thing) for their closure, and the only wrong thing would have been to give people who really wanted a chance to see Shepard live and be happy, the same kind of closure..  The freaking story was only about Shepard and seen through Shepard's point of view for 100 hours.  The freaking story was only about getting people to care, even if it was caring about saving their own lives.  But so what?  Who the hell cared about Shepard anyway.  Great to see him/her die.  Who cares about seeing him/her live?

Well, I admit it.  I did.  And I cried at this ending, not because I thought it was so great, but because for me the story is over.  My Shepard now is crumpled up in a pile of rubble, somewhere alone, waiting and hoping the Normandy is on the way.  Was it too much to ask for even slides showing something after that?  I know it won't get changed.  I know they decided to thumb their noses at people like me.  But I can't help how I feel.  For me this is worse than the empty feeling I had before, because now I am sad and not in a good way.  It's a game, it should have been fun.  It wasn't for me at the end.  I have less reason now to ever play it again.

#2258
Wesker1984

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PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...

What the endings really mean:

Control: You fought your way through the Thorian, Sovereign, Saren, the Geth, Collectors and Cerberus. For what? So you can be the foreman on a series of construction projects for the buddies you left behind who are, by the way, all out partying on beaches and dancing in Afterlife. When you are not doing that, you are the equivalent of a third grade teacher breaking up fights between squabbling children. Oh, and even though the Reapers have to do what you tell them, after all you've been through with them, you know deep down, they hate you. P.S. Someone else is now sleeping with your love interest. Embrace eternity.

Synthesis: For three games you've been fighting against hulking machines purging the galaxy of all organic life. The enemy is a group of machines that are part organic and part synthetic. So you beat them by....wait for it...turning every living creature into an organic/synthetic concoction. Plus, everyone you know now has big green eyes. If they also grew red hair, they'd be Irish. So basically, you make everyone Irish. Also, meals now take hours. It's like eating unboned fish. "Waiter, there is a capacitor in my salad!"

Destroy: You've spent at least a game and a half learning that what separates your electric toothbrush from a sentient being is self-awareness leading to a "soul." It is a good thing you've been brushing up on your buddhist discourse. You're going to need it. Enter the biggest bully on the galactic playground, StarBrat. He's after a lot more than your lunch money, by the way. And, he's a clever kid too. Showing early aptitude, StarBrat has figured out that you might actually want to kill him off along with all of his Reaper pals. Obviously, a future Mensa member. You can get rid of the Scut Farcus of video games and all of his giant shrimp machines, but you have to kill off all of your new "soul-mates" to do it. Why? Because StarBrat says so, that's why. Duh! As sad as that is, at least after your done, you get to dig out of your personal rubble pile, dust yourself off and go watch a football game with Ashley (you know she loves football), or a National Geographic special with Liara. You get the picture. Plus, you won't miss any of your favorite shows from now on because you know you're not going to be in any Mass Effect sequels. In honor of your lost friend, you name your flatscreen "EDI."

Reject/"The Finger": Let's be honest. The best parts of the "original endings" of Mass Effect 3 were StarBrat, a gun, and unlimited ammo! Even more funny was watching YouTube video after YouTube video of people shooting StarBrat over and over and over again. Apparently, this moment of player improvisational freedom was not appreciated by certain Mass Effect 3 "ending writers." Shoot the StarBrat now and it's time for the biggest temper tantrum in galactic history (for both StarBrat and the writers). BratBoy screams, pouts, and takes his Reaper toys home along with all organic life. Except the Yagh. (By the way, don't Google 'Yagh.' Trust me.) We didn't spend a lot of time with the Yagh in the Broker DLC. But I do remember his twitchy ears. After watching what happens now when you shoot the StarBrat, I suspect that there are some other people at BioWare who also have twitchy ears. Just sayin'. The good news is that, like all Brats, Star and otherwise, eventually someone kicks their butt. It just won't be you. Or your friends. Or anyone else you know. It will be a big fat Yagh. With twitchy ears.

So you see, what could there possibly be to complain about?




You are not funny. And the green eyes mean they are all now part synthetics dont act like an ignorant by saying such negative things you worth more than that. Be happy we got the altered endings for free.

And dont get why peoples are so upset about the REFUSE option, during the entire game we hear more than once that we can't beat the Reapers with conventional means.

Modifié par Wesker1984, 28 juin 2012 - 02:06 .


#2259
3DandBeyond

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@TrevorHill

Fantastic post and I read it all...

I love long-winded constructive criticism because it gives all the information and not just "sound bytes."  And thank you for so clearly explaining what I am feeling right now.  The things you bring up are my issues and you did it brilliantly.

I will add a couple tidbits of info for you.  My concerns over the Mass Relays were not only due to the Arrival, but information contained within a codex, entitled Desperate Measures.  While the Arrival has been somewhat put to bed, Desp. Measures has not.  It states that if a relay is ruptured, it will ruin the terrestrial worlds within that star system.  Well at least one relay in the Destroy ending is more than ruptured.  It's messed up a lot.

Also, the Asari with Samara is her remaining daughter who stayed behind at the Monastery.  She does look like Liara and I had to question that myself at first.  There are some inconsistencies in the slides, but for dramatic effect I could overlook that if well, the game had had a lot of other slideshows.  It ain't great by any stretch.

I said it in my post-the original Destroy ending didn't bring me to tears-that ending just left me feeling empty and wondering what happened.  This Destroy ending made me cry-sad not happy tears because now I knew how they felt about anyone that wanted one singular happy ending.  I wanted it possible for any "choice", but if it couldn't be then I wanted at least one that would give me closure.  People actually don't need closure as much when you let them know the character will die, but we get to see the flesh vaporize and then Shepard do so totally.  People do really need closure when things have been tense and death seems certain and the words of comfort that are said mean they may never see one another again.  People wanted to cry happy tears that their Shepard's good byes to friends were really unneeded.  But at least now the ending has made me feel something and that's terrible.  I pretty near hate the game now to be honest.  And even with the first bad ending, I never hated ME3.  Just hated the ending.  I never thought I'd get close to hating it.

#2260
BlueStorm83

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3DandBeyond wrote...

*snipped like mad*

Hey BlueStorm83---long post and please know I am not mad or attacking you for what you said,


---  Hey.  After I wrote that, I figured it would be misconstrued.  I'm not saying that YOU have to suck it up; you argue well and have well thought out points.  I'm more talking to the "AARRGGHH I CAN'T MARRY MY LI AND THAT AUTOMATICALLY MEANS THAT EVERYTHING IS 
ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE AND I WON'T GIVE THE EC ANY CREDIT AT ALL!!!!" crowd.

No, I totally get it, the endings aren't all that great.  I can look at people eventually accepting Reapers around the same way that I accept the Japanese.  My Grandmother doesn't; she remembers Pearl Harbor.  It'll take time, and honestly, that really is a stretch, but I suppose that given generations Reapers would just be people to everyone else. 

And yes, one man choosing Synthesis for everyone is still wrong.  Shepard controling the Reapers is easier to accept.  And when I picked Destroy, I too was hoping that EDI would be around.  Starboy said that Technology would be damaged, but not too difficult for people to rebuild, so I hoped that we'd get some kind of scene of technicians working on giving her a new body or something.  But then the name on the wall, and Joker standing there alone, and I was like, "Awwww, that's sad..."

---  The endings are now actually bittersweet to me.  There's at least enough good thrown in for everyone else to make Shepard's death (still not saying Sacrifice, there's no real way to survive, Magic Torso doesn't count!) forgivable.  Do I want Shepard to live?  Yeah.  Do I want Shepard to live and get everyone else what they want?  Yeah.  Do I even want Shepard to live after telling the Starboy to go **** himself, and then we win the war using Violence, and not the Mighty MacGuffin (which the Crucible still is!)?  Yeah, I want that too.

What I'm hoping at this point is that BioWare has got the point that we, their customers and fans, are driving the series and their success.  I would like them to release this Leviathan DLC and some more DLC and continue giving us War Assets until the point where we can actually win this thing without having to give anything specific up.  Half of the population of the galaxy dying would be acceptable to me, so long as no race is destroyed outright.

Oh, also?  Starboy said to me, in Destroy, that "no more would be lost than what was already lost."  Uh, bull****?  The Geth?  EDI???  Oh, riiiight.

DAMMIT, couldn't we alter the Crucible a little to only target, you know, Synthetics that are bigger than TWENTY STORIES TALL???

Ah well.  Again, give us more DLC for more War Assets, but make them matter toward a Mass Effect Final Cut DLC (that'll be free, since it'll just be more ending alterations,) and then I think we'll be okay.

---  One final restatement: Not saying people who actually outline their complaints about the EC are whining, or should suck it up.  Only the maniacs who shriek and stab my eyes with all caps for entire blocky paragraphs with no spacing.

#2261
3DandBeyond

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@BlueStorm83

Sorry I took it wrong.  As you can tell, I kind of am in a funk.  I loved these games and well did feel empty with the first ending.  I now do feel sad-and I kind of dislike the games.  That's something I never thought I'd feel.  I do hope that some of the things you've outlined come true.  I'd like it if Bioware could see through their pride and hurt and realize that all along what we've wanted to do is give them our money.  We just wanted them to create good stories and keep creating good characters and remember not to crap on them and fans.  I feel they totally crapped on people that wanted that happy ending above all.  I always said I'd like a variety and that meant closure for everyone.  If you wanted bittersweet through sacrifice with a victory, well I wanted you to get that.  If you wanted to go out in a blaze of glory and tell the kid to f off, I wanted that for you as well.  I wanted everyone to get a little bit of something.  I feel kind of left out of that.  I know I speak for a lot of others-that gasp and the Normandy taking off is not enough to give closure.  I can imagine many things, but I like my movies to have an ending where I see and know what happens after the fight.  And I like other stories to do that as well.  I don't like the game much anymore.  And it will take some big thing to make me want to purchase anything from Bioware again-I never said that before either, but oh well.

Thanks for clarifying things Bluestorm..and again, sorry.

#2262
Massa FX

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I'm still happy with EC. I'd like to see the implied Shepard resurrection and reunion with squad and LI, but I can live without it. They didn't have to make EC free. They didn't have to make EC period. I'm happily drinking my koolaid and it is pretty tasty. I've posted a laundry list of wishes but ... I'm OK with my destroy decision and the consequences of that decision.

#2263
TrevorHill

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3DandBeyond wrote...

@TrevorHill

Fantastic post and I read it all...

I love long-winded constructive criticism because it gives all the information and not just "sound bytes."  And thank you for so clearly explaining what I am feeling right now.  The things you bring up are my issues and you did it brilliantly.

I will add a couple tidbits of info for you.  My concerns over the Mass Relays were not only due to the Arrival, but information contained within a codex, entitled Desperate Measures.  While the Arrival has been somewhat put to bed, Desp. Measures has not.  It states that if a relay is ruptured, it will ruin the terrestrial worlds within that star system.  Well at least one relay in the Destroy ending is more than ruptured.  It's messed up a lot.

Also, the Asari with Samara is her remaining daughter who stayed behind at the Monastery.  She does look like Liara and I had to question that myself at first.  There are some inconsistencies in the slides, but for dramatic effect I could overlook that if well, the game had had a lot of other slideshows.  It ain't great by any stretch.

I said it in my post-the original Destroy ending didn't bring me to tears-that ending just left me feeling empty and wondering what happened.  This Destroy ending made me cry-sad not happy tears because now I knew how they felt about anyone that wanted one singular happy ending.  I wanted it possible for any "choice", but if it couldn't be then I wanted at least one that would give me closure.  People actually don't need closure as much when you let them know the character will die, but we get to see the flesh vaporize and then Shepard do so totally.  People do really need closure when things have been tense and death seems certain and the words of comfort that are said mean they may never see one another again.  People wanted to cry happy tears that their Shepard's good byes to friends were really unneeded.  But at least now the ending has made me feel something and that's terrible.  I pretty near hate the game now to be honest.  And even with the first bad ending, I never hated ME3.  Just hated the ending.  I never thought I'd get close to hating it.


Hey, thanks for reading through all my bullsh*t. And that part you mentioned about Samara and her daughter is exactly what I'm talking about. Because the picture had no context, I thought that Falere was Liara, because all those damned asari look the same. They're like Turians without the face-paint.

#2264
caramel_cod

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Just played through the Destroy ending again, and it's infinitely better.

I'm a writer. A very ambiguous ending can sometimes be very compelling in a movie or a single game, but playing the EC makes me feel, more strongly than ever, that a long series requires closure. Bioware delivered on that front, and filled in the gaps in their original conclusion.

Artistic integrity was preserved (although the notion that such a thing is held paramount in an industry where many AAA games have multiple writers and executives forming the plot through committee is a bit absurd), as the EC merely explains the events in the original endings without altering them.

Some people still won't be satisfied, but I feel like Bioware has finally given their greatest series an ending that matched the journey. I'd thank them for that, and I hope that, if they ever again create a story this memorable, that they put the same amount of effort into it's ending as they did in the Extended Cut.

#2265
BearlyHere

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Jvolikas wrote...

Just dd the Destroy ending again and it still feels the best by far. Control is still a gamble and Synthesis is still an abomination, but Destroy is tolerable. Yes its sad to lose EDI and the Geth but war does require sacrifice. I never expected to make it out of the end of ME3 without some new casualties. And the fact that the relays arent destroyed (and must be rebuilt fairly quickly since Wrex and Eve hold baby Mordin on Tuchanka) gives me a lot more hope about the galaxy as a whole.

And, Hackett. Win.


Has it occurred to everyone that one of these choices will become default for ME4, if there is one? So some of our choices won't matter.

I was still feeling used when I watched the endings last night. I found it ironic how IGN had all four endings up on their site so we could watch them without bothering to play, considering how they're been in bed with Bioware. 

Kudos for clearing all the confusion up, but really, if EA had allowed these three extra months to finish it, much of the ill-will towards Bioware could have been avoided. Maybe what we need now is a "Lessons Bioware and EA should take away from this" thread. It seems to me for one thing that this could have been avoided if they had a story or content editor who could look at their script and compare it to the scenes being created and point out things like "You need to show why Joker is leaving. Players are going to be confused." 

I hope this is a wake-up call to their marketing director who thought we were too stupid to remember everything that has happened over the course of the three games. Also, on the one hand, we hear how much they value their customers. On the other hand, the mask slips off regularly both in the game, and in places like that podcast with Hudson and Walters that betrays their resentment at having to satisfy the players' wants when all they want to do it produce their stories and have us buy them without question. I saw this in DA2, and after seeing how they handled the end of ME3,  I haven't put them on my avoid list, but I won't be pre-ordering anything else until I see gamer reviews.

I read an article somewhere a few months ago about the death of the $60 dollar game and the reasons why. I read through the readers' comments, and most of them were complaints about bugged games, poorly written stories, and games that could be completed in less than 12 hours.  I would add this trend towards 1st day DLC too. I've seen enough people posting that we're ingrates for not appreciating the free DLC. I counter that this "free" DLC should have been included, and would have been if the game hadn't been rushed, or if they had spent enough time on play testing. I may be mistaken, but wasn't The Stone Prisoner a free DLC for people who pre-ordered DA:O?

#2266
Archonsg

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BlueStorm83 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

*snipped like mad*

Hey BlueStorm83---long post and please know I am not mad or attacking you for what you said,


--- Hey. After I wrote that, I figured it would be misconstrued. I'm not saying that YOU have to suck it up; you argue well and have well thought out points. I'm more talking to the "AARRGGHH I CAN'T MARRY MY LI AND THAT AUTOMATICALLY MEANS THAT EVERYTHING IS
ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE AND I WON'T GIVE THE EC ANY CREDIT AT ALL!!!!" crowd.

No, I totally get it, the endings aren't all that great. I can look at people eventually accepting Reapers around the same way that I accept the Japanese. My Grandmother doesn't; she remembers Pearl Harbor. It'll take time, and honestly, that really is a stretch, but I suppose that given generations Reapers would just be people to everyone else.

And yes, one man choosing Synthesis for everyone is still wrong. Shepard controling the Reapers is easier to accept. And when I picked Destroy, I too was hoping that EDI would be around. Starboy said that Technology would be damaged, but not too difficult for people to rebuild, so I hoped that we'd get some kind of scene of technicians working on giving her a new body or something. But then the name on the wall, and Joker standing there alone, and I was like, "Awwww, that's sad..."

--- The endings are now actually bittersweet to me. There's at least enough good thrown in for everyone else to make Shepard's death (still not saying Sacrifice, there's no real way to survive, Magic Torso doesn't count!) forgivable. Do I want Shepard to live? Yeah. Do I want Shepard to live and get everyone else what they want? Yeah. Do I even want Shepard to live after telling the Starboy to go **** himself, and then we win the war using Violence, and not the Mighty MacGuffin (which the Crucible still is!)? Yeah, I want that too.

What I'm hoping at this point is that BioWare has got the point that we, their customers and fans, are driving the series and their success. I would like them to release this Leviathan DLC and some more DLC and continue giving us War Assets until the point where we can actually win this thing without having to give anything specific up. Half of the population of the galaxy dying would be acceptable to me, so long as no race is destroyed outright.

Oh, also? Starboy said to me, in Destroy, that "no more would be lost than what was already lost." Uh, bull****? The Geth? EDI??? Oh, riiiight.

DAMMIT, couldn't we alter the Crucible a little to only target, you know, Synthetics that are bigger than TWENTY STORIES TALL???

Ah well. Again, give us more DLC for more War Assets, but make them matter toward a Mass Effect Final Cut DLC (that'll be free, since it'll just be more ending alterations,) and then I think we'll be okay.

--- One final restatement: Not saying people who actually outline their complaints about the EC are whining, or should suck it up. Only the maniacs who shriek and stab my eyes with all caps for entire blocky paragraphs with no spacing.


That is assuming they will allow for change in the "Shepard must die" vision.
Unless you mean win but still have Shepard die. 
Then I can see this happening. 
Actually this is what I thought would happen in the 4th choice.
Shepard rejects the insane construct, they fight it out, Shepard dies a heroic death. 

But no.
We got fingered.


3DandBeyond wrote...

@BlueStorm83

Sorry I took it wrong. As you can tell, I kind of am in a funk. I loved these games and well did feel empty with the first ending. I now do feel sad-and I kind of dislike the games. That's something I never thought I'd feel. I do hope that some of the things you've outlined come true. I'd like it if Bioware could see through their pride and hurt and realize that all along what we've wanted to do is give them our money. We just wanted them to create good stories and keep creating good characters and remember not to crap on them and fans. I feel they totally crapped on people that wanted that happy ending above all. I always said I'd like a variety and that meant closure for everyone. If you wanted bittersweet through sacrifice with a victory, well I wanted you to get that. If you wanted to go out in a blaze of glory and tell the kid to f off, I wanted that for you as well. I wanted everyone to get a little bit of something. I feel kind of left out of that. I know I speak for a lot of others-that gasp and the Normandy taking off is not enough to give closure. I can imagine many things, but I like my movies to have an ending where I see and know what happens after the fight. And I like other stories to do that as well. I don't like the game much anymore. And it will take some big thing to make me want to purchase anything from Bioware again-I never said that before either, but oh well.

Thanks for clarifying things Bluestorm..and again, sorry.




But both of you hit the same point, that Bioware DID NOT give the player the uplifting ending, the "happy ever after" ending because they feel that game has to end this way.

Now don't get me wrong.
I do think that the EC has addressed several issues and at the very least made it palatable again but that is far from saying that it is " a great way to end the game".
But I can also see that I am perhaps in the minority in thinking that there could have been a "happy after ending" where Shepard didn't have to die. Happy being "relative" here since the galaxy's a shambles, billions are dead and lives shattered.

Funny thing (not haha) is, the EC will be just enough to please most people and by this time, if you are like me, am just tired about this whole mess and just want it to end. It is just too bad the series shut its door on us the way it did.


As for the all the choices, the 4th is there for people like me who would not see why Shepard would take any of those choices, who because of the explanations from the catalyst see it for what it is and choose not to go along with it and are "rewarded" for it.

Would I prefer this choice to give me a better result? Yes.
Being true to one's principles, refusing to betray friends and allies and not wanting to play god as the Catalyst is trying to get you to, should have been given a nod of respect or better yet, reinforced, but I understand why the writers wanted to "stick it them" as they did in this ending.

It was a clear message "We own your story, don't you forget this."


It could have been very different, and less petty.

Modifié par Archonsg, 28 juin 2012 - 05:44 .


#2267
Archonsg

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BearlyHere wrote...

I read an article somewhere a few months ago about the death of the $60 dollar game and the reasons why. I read through the readers' comments, and most of them were complaints about bugged games, poorly written stories, and games that could be completed in less than 12 hours.  I would add this trend towards 1st day DLC too. I've seen enough people posting that we're ingrates for not appreciating the free DLC. I counter that this "free" DLC should have been included, and would have been if the game hadn't been rushed, or if they had spent enough time on play testing. I may be mistaken, but wasn't The Stone Prisoner a free DLC for people who pre-ordered DA:O?


Not just pre-ordered.
Anyone with the deluxe version / collectors version got it free.

#2268
diggisaur

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Okay..... so shooting the Star Kid is officially my favorite ending. I wonder if Bioware saw all those YouTube videos where people were shooting the Star Kid for 10 minutes straight. That is a new secret FOURTH ending that is funny as all crap.

#2269
Archonsg

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diggisaur wrote...

Okay..... so shooting the Star Kid is officially my favorite ending. I wonder if Bioware saw all those YouTube videos where people were shooting the Star Kid for 10 minutes straight. That is a new secret FOURTH ending that is funny as all crap.


You could also talk to it and choose the "I reject all your options" on the wheel.
You'd get an awesome (esp if you play Femshep) speech from Shepard, right before they /flip and go "okies.. you all die now" 

#2270
seitani

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guys check out what i found from the youtube archive


Modifié par seitani, 28 juin 2012 - 07:57 .


#2271
dodge83

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God brat: destroy = destroy all synthetics
Me Shep thinks no i like the geth now since they joined my side but i like the genocide since i killed the Rachni queen but no too tired to pull the trigger feeling lazy!
Me Shep whats my other choices?

God brat: there is control you will lose your corporeal form you will control the reapers but i dont want to be replaced
Me Shep thinks wow this choice looks better and better the god brat will be gone that that sounds great but i dont want to become an AI
Me Shep: Whats my other choices?

God brat: synthesis you will take everything you are and will combine organics and synthics into a new DNA
Me shep thinks not a bad choice i can use my dna and change everyone but also sounds gross and its realy not my choice to force upon everyone else so no
Me Shep: your choices are crap i wont choose!

God brat: SO BE IT THE CYCLE CONTINUES

50000 years later...

Liara VI? : We failed but heres what we know

so even thou i let the cycle continue as dispicable as i am
I be the hero who gave the next cycle the infomation to make choice i could not!

BIOWARE! What a way to make me feel great about myself but kick me in the balls for my indecision!

#2272
weltraumhamster89

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BearlyHere wrote...

Has it occurred to everyone that one of these choices will become default for ME4, if there is one? So some of our choices won't matter.

I was still feeling used when I watched the endings last night. I found it ironic how IGN had all four endings up on their site so we could watch them without bothering to play, considering how they're been in bed with Bioware. 

Kudos for clearing all the confusion up, but really, if EA had allowed these three extra months to finish it, much of the ill-will towards Bioware could have been avoided. Maybe what we need now is a "Lessons Bioware and EA should take away from this" thread. It seems to me for one thing that this could have been avoided if they had a story or content editor who could look at their script and compare it to the scenes being created and point out things like "You need to show why Joker is leaving. Players are going to be confused." 

I hope this is a wake-up call to their marketing director who thought we were too stupid to remember everything that has happened over the course of the three games. Also, on the one hand, we hear how much they value their customers. On the other hand, the mask slips off regularly both in the game, and in places like that podcast with Hudson and Walters that betrays their resentment at having to satisfy the players' wants when all they want to do it produce their stories and have us buy them without question. I saw this in DA2, and after seeing how they handled the end of ME3,  I haven't put them on my avoid list, but I won't be pre-ordering anything else until I see gamer reviews.

I read an article somewhere a few months ago about the death of the $60 dollar game and the reasons why. I read through the readers' comments, and most of them were complaints about bugged games, poorly written stories, and games that could be completed in less than 12 hours.  I would add this trend towards 1st day DLC too. I've seen enough people posting that we're ingrates for not appreciating the free DLC. I counter that this "free" DLC should have been included, and would have been if the game hadn't been rushed, or if they had spent enough time on play testing. I may be mistaken, but wasn't The Stone Prisoner a free DLC for people who pre-ordered DA:O?


/signed

#2273
Archonsg

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dodge83 wrote...

God brat: destroy = destroy all synthetics
Me Shep thinks no i like the geth now since they joined my side but i like the genocide since i killed the Rachni queen but no too tired to pull the trigger feeling lazy!
Me Shep whats my other choices?

God brat: there is control you will lose your corporeal form you will control the reapers but i dont want to be replaced
Me Shep thinks wow this choice looks better and better the god brat will be gone that that sounds great but i dont want to become an AI
Me Shep: Whats my other choices?

God brat: synthesis you will take everything you are and will combine organics and synthics into a new DNA
Me shep thinks not a bad choice i can use my dna and change everyone but also sounds gross and its realy not my choice to force upon everyone else so no
Me Shep: your choices are crap i wont choose!

God brat: SO BE IT THE CYCLE CONTINUES

50000 years later...

Liara VI? : We failed but heres what we know

so even thou i let the cycle continue as dispicable as i am
I be the hero who gave the next cycle the infomation to make choice i could not!

BIOWARE! What a way to make me feel great about myself but kick me in the balls for my indecision!


Not indecision but being true to whom Shepard is. There is a difference.

#2274
res27772

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For me the EC does enough to make the endings acceptable. The thing that got me the most was that the choices weren't sufficiently explained, or their consequences weren't anyway, also what exactly the "space kid" actually was and why it was seemingly at the centre of everything, but what killed it completely for me was that there was no final recognition of Shepard and his/her sacrifice.

For me, at least, all those issues have been addressed, I feel i understand better what the choices mean, and what Starkid is, but more importantly it gives Shepard a proper goodbye becuase you can see and share the pain and loss of his/her crew and friends... I think that was the most important thing for me, because not to have that... closure, seemed like an insult to the character.

I still wish there's been a scenerio where Shepard lived and was reunited with his/her crew, but they've given the game the ending it needed imo.

Now, all we need is that pesky face import issue to be fixed properly, and I'll be as happy as a pig in sh!t. :D

#2275
dodge83

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Archonsg wrote...

dodge83 wrote...

God brat: destroy = destroy all synthetics
Me Shep thinks no i like the geth now since they joined my side but i like the genocide since i killed the Rachni queen but no too tired to pull the trigger feeling lazy!
Me Shep whats my other choices?

God brat: there is control you will lose your corporeal form you will control the reapers but i dont want to be replaced
Me Shep thinks wow this choice looks better and better the god brat will be gone that that sounds great but i dont want to become an AI
Me Shep: Whats my other choices?

God brat: synthesis you will take everything you are and will combine organics and synthics into a new DNA
Me shep thinks not a bad choice i can use my dna and change everyone but also sounds gross and its realy not my choice to force upon everyone else so no
Me Shep: your choices are crap i wont choose!

God brat: SO BE IT THE CYCLE CONTINUES

50000 years later...

Liara VI? : We failed but heres what we know

so even thou i let the cycle continue as dispicable as i am
I be the hero who gave the next cycle the infomation to make choice i could not!

BIOWARE! What a way to make me feel great about myself but kick me in the balls for my indecision!


Not indecision but being true to whom Shepard is. There is a difference.



the kick in the balls is in reference to wanting to know more about how the next cycle saved themselves!

there are lot of unknowns after the stargazers have their chat and the credits roll it not a winge but more of a perception thing based on my own personality

i guess all the endings allow people to write stories about how civilisation recovered or how the next cycle saved themselves and i like the new ec dlc