2621 réponses à ce sujet

[Redbelle]

@alleyed. Get this done for youtube and we'll have a contender to go against........... "Maybe Vader, someday later, now he's just a small fry' of SW ep1

[Wesker1984]

3DandBeyond wrote...

One of the things I will add is that though I hate Destroy for what it does (still genocide), I see it as the only possible authentic ending.

Control and Synthesis both say that people cannot do anything on their own. The reapers have forever been seeding the galaxy with their tech. In Control it's most obvious-people can't achieve on their own and need the reapers to fix it. In Synthesis it's obvious-people can't work out conflict on their own and need intervention, need to be fixed so it never happens.

Neither choice allows for people relying on themselves and on the faith in their own better natures. People become mere children in need of this intrusive overseer who will take care of everything. This could be seen as the devs expose on religious faith, but it lacks this feature. In religious faith it's the human spirit that seeks to do better for something seen as real, but still unseen. It helps formulate values and gives direction at its best.

Control and Synthesis create a "direct intervention", that is tangible and complete, overwhelming and decides values and mandates direction.

It is one thing to believe in something and try to do better. It is another to be forced to do that. Because it also removes any ability to decide for oneself just what "better" is.

Control and Synthesis have many things wrong with them, but they exist to tell people you can't achieve on your own. Mass relays need repair-it's unnecessary to learn how to make one for yourself, because the reapers will fix them OR you will automatically know how to do it, never needing to learn for yourself-the knowledge has been given to you. The growth of the soul (religious or not-the heart) is denied.

It's like having a child. Do everything for that child, tell them what to think, deny them their independent will and they will always remain an immature child. Guide their learning, let them even fail at times, be there when you can, and not always when they want, and they grow and adapt and they learn. Otherwise, they may as well be non-sentient synthetic beings.

The destroy ending can be also identified in those category in some ways since everyone will surely do retro-engineering from the dead reapers to repair what they have lost like the Citadel the Mass Relay. Since we evolved the way the Reapers wanted we will continu to evolve in that way. Whatever you do the galaxy and its inhabitants have been forever changed when the Reapers were created.

Modifié par Wesker1984, 28 juin 2012 - 10:20 .

[Archonsg]

Redbelle wrote...

or if you want the full except

"You are wise and fearless and fair, Lady Galadriel,' said Frodo. 'I will give you the One Ring, if you ask for it. It is too great a matter for me.'
Galadriel laughed with a sudden clear laugh. 'Wise the Lady Galadriel may be,' she said, 'yet here she has met her match in courtesy. Gently are you revenged for my testing of your heart at our first meeting. You begin to see with a keen eye. I do not deny that my heart has greatly desired to ask what you offer. For many long years I had pondered what I might do, should the Great Ring come into my hands, and behold! it was brought within my grasp. The evil that was devised long ago works on in many ways, whether Sauron himself stands or falls. Would not that have been a noble deed to set to the credit of his Ring, if I had taken it by force or fear from my guest?
And now at last it comes. You will give me the Ring freely! In place of the Dark Lord you will set up a Queen. And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love me and despair!'
She lifted up her hand and from the ring that she wore there issued a great light that illuminated her alone and left all else dark. She stood before Frodo seeming now tall beyond measurement, and beautiful beyond enduring, terrible and worshipful. Then she let her hand fall, and the light faded, and suddenly she laughed again, and lo! she was shrunken: a slender elf-woman, clad in simple white, whose gentle voice was soft and sad.
'I pass the test,' she said.'I will diminish, and go into the West and remain Galadriel.

Which got me to remember this

There is some good in this world
What Sam says, very very applicable Mass Effect and all those who say "how else could it end other then Shepard dying?"

There was always hope.

At least till the writers decided it to be not so.

Modifié par Archonsg, 28 juin 2012 - 09:32 .

[BlueStorm83]

--- I was going over the Starboy's Destroy Option explanation dialogue. It struck me that he said "The Crucible is largely intact" when I asked what Destroy would do.

Hold up a second, "Largely Intact?" When I got hit by a Station Wagon, I was "Largely intact" but I still have permanent nerve damage in my left leg. To me, that does not sound like "Complete and undamaged." Does this leave the door open for a Destroy Ending where the Crucible is COMPLETELY, 100%, without any flaws or shortcomings operational? And could THAT Crucible be good enough to kill the Reapers without destroying EDI and the Geth? Even if it just adds a scene of slideshow scientists repairing EDI's body, and maybe building a new version of a Geth mobile platform?

Very interesting... very interesting indeed.

Oh, also? I just looked into that Mass Effect: Infiltrator thing. Shame it's only for mobile devices. I hate Phones and iPads and the like. If I could have paid 5 bucks for a PC version of it, maybe on Steam or something, I'd have done that. Ah well.

[Redbelle]

WardyLion wrote...

I don't have the time now to go into details or read any of the posts (but I will!) but what I will say for now is that I vastly enjoyed the Extended Cut DLC. Sure it wasn't perfect but it was hell of a lot better than the old ending and now I can replay the trilogy in the knowledge that I'm gonna get a pretty good ending now rather than a ****ty one.

Yes there are still issues but they are minor.

IN MY OWN OPINION, BioWare did good with this!

Shame about the Indoctrination Theory though - I liked it a lot

If I had to describe my feelings about the ECDLC I'd state them as this.

The ECDLC gets a thumbs up in the grounds that it made the ending narrative flow. The Cat's banter also is better in that I can understand what the choices he's offering mean and what the potential consequences will be, from his perspective.

However, I am making this judgement on the EC ending based on the original ending which was aweful. Therefore I can't just leave it at 'it was better', because it was so aweful to start with that any clarity offered by the full writing team would have been better, based on the quality of the Tchunka and Rannoch missions they wrote.

So the question is, how much better? I'm still making my mind up on that one. The only thing I will say is my first impression of the original ending left me feeling hollow in a bad way. It's happened before when I get to the end of a first playthrough of an RPG so I'm used to it but ME's ending really stuck the knife in. The EC DLC ending didn't have me feeling that. In fact I felt contented to a degree.

Still doesn't answer the question 'From a criticial viewpoint how much better was the new ending in comparison to the old one?' But I am sure that this new ending resolved the story of the ME trilogy for me.

Buuuuut.......

As I said earlier, this EC DLC should have shipped with the game initially and not have had 3 months of development time shoehorned in after launch.

And also. While I liked the ending......... it was still the ending written by two guys in a closed room with no input or critique from the writing team. If the full writing team had been set on the ending initially we may not have the ending as outlined by the two writers that the whole team were then constrained by. But seeing as there is not much anyone can do after the fact, I hope that BW have taken a few lessons on board...........

.......... And they do not repeat any of this come Dragon Age 3.

Modifié par Redbelle, 28 juin 2012 - 09:43 .

[Archonsg]

alleyd wrote...

I offer up this little ditty based on the main quest of ME3 with my own personal spin. Hope ya'll like 

It's to the tune of Don MacLean's American Pie 

Mass Effect Pie

Verse 1
A long long time ago 
I can still remember how ME used to make me smile
And I knew if I had my chance 
That I could make my Shepard dance 
And maybe I’d be happy for a while
In February I was all a quiver 
Wondering what ME3 would deliver
The hype reached into space 
Soon I would fight to save my race
So I bought the game with pride 
From my Shepard  Reapers would run and hide
Then something touched me deep inside
The day the galaxy died


Chorus
So, bye-bye, to Mass Effect guys
Flew old Mandy through the galaxy Now the end was in sight
Shepard got all the races fighting by my side
This will be the day The Reapers die
This will be the day that they die

Verse 2
Now for many years we've been on our quest 
No time to sleep, no time to rest 
Got to save the galaxy
Shepard saved the Krogan Queen 
And gave the Krogan a chance to dream 
By curing the genophage
But before the Krogan could sing their songs 
Cerberus found an ancient bomb
The Turian prince sadly died, but now they’ll join the fight 
And while Shepard raced old Mandy thru space 
The Council was in a desperate place
Cerberus troops were on the chase
The day the galaxy died
We were singing

Chorus

Verse 3
Shepard foils the coup on the citadel 
When the council is attacked by a beast of hell 
Stops the attack but loses a friend
Victim of an assassins blade, 
Then a friend points a gun in the hero’s face 
But again the council is saved
Now the Quarian’s were in a desperate place 
They’d started a war to save their race
They launched an attack fated to fail,  
And the Geth make a desperate betrayal
The Geth had made a deal with the Reapers
In return they  helped them think deeper
Shepard had to change to fight the sleepers
The day the galaxy died
We were singing

Chorus

Verse 4
Shepard has to journey to Thessia 
Before it is lost to the Reapers 
With little time left on his side
So Come on Shepard Be nimble, be quick 
The assassins plot armour is thick 
Shepard stumbles loses the prize
So again Shepard journeys through space 
His hands clenched in fists of rage
Into the bowels of hell
And He breaks the Cerberus spell
So on again with new will for the fight 
The Cerberus base is in sight
To win he has to trust an AI
The day the galaxy died
We were singing

Chorus

Verse 5
Shepard returns to Earth’s Skies 
Where the Reapers have taken the prize 
There they stand and reap away
Shepard fights through London’s streets 
There’s a reaper that he has to defeat 
He lures it to him, blows it away
The last race to the Citadel beam 
Reapers fire and men scream 
Shepard almost dies, but the ending is in sight
The Illusive man chooses suicide 
Shepard confronts an insane AI
The galaxy’s fate Shepard has to decide.
The day they galaxy died
We start singing

Chorus 

Verse 6
Do you believe in hope? 
Is it something that helps you cope? 
With the trials that life provides
And do you believe in your friends?
Who fight beside you until the end. 
Was that the message the game tried to send?
No you’re wrong came an almighty voice 
Shepard has to make a choice 
And if he dosn't choose, he is guaranteed to lose
The choices remain Red green and blue 
The authors explained them better for you. 
And everyone dies if you refuse
The Day the galaxy died

Chorus

The final slice of Mass Effect Pie
Flew old Mandy through the galaxy but still lost the fight
Had all the races fighting by my side
But today’s the day The galaxy died
Today’s the day we all die 

The final slice of Mass Effect Pie 
Flew old Mandy through the galaxy but still lost the fight
Had all the races fighting by my side
But today’s the day The galaxy died
Today’s the day we all die  

BRAVO!

[BearlyHere]

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...

I suspect that there was a lot of corporate politics, ego, and internal intrigue at BioWare about how to fix the disastrous "original endings" of Mass Effect 3, which were objectively terrible. They in no way appear to be the work of the team that wrote the rest of this series, and, as I said, it feels like someone decided that they would use the popularity of the prior series installments to become the Stanley Kubrick of video games. The result was calamitous. Imagine now all of the palace machinations once the scope of the business disaster was realized. I am sure that people who had a good relationship with customers (fans) were sent out to do public damage control. I am not surprised that those people, well-intentioned, got out ahead of the people who created the problem. Ultimately, I suspect the writers who made the series great were hailed in to help triage the mess, but in a way that didn't completely embarrass those who made it. The result is the imperfect EC DLC we got. A rewrite of the endings for sure, but not so completely divorced from the "original endings" that you couldn't plausibly contend it was just a "clarification." End result, mediocrity. Not good business but perhaps necessary for the egos involved.

You make a good point.  Bioware/EA is dealing with the aftermath of a perfect storm of bad, worse, and terrible business descisions, from the clearly rushed ending, to deciding people really didn't care what Tali looked like as long as she was cute, to the terrible descision to tie your ending to MP. I still think this is going to come back to haunt them when the next release is due.

People will remember this and some will avoid the next game unless it gets good gamer peer reviews because they don't want to deal with the drama, the money grab, the expectation the players could headcannon the end to figure out what it meant, or with the possibility of another "artistic" mindf**k.  Bioware has always made games that I've wanted not only to replay, but multiple times to try out the various character/class/alingnment combinations. There aren't many games I can say the same thing about.  It's a shame, because even with plotholes the writing is so damn good 95% of the time. In additon to a content editor, they could also use some counseling sessions to figure out why they're so resentful towards their players.

I went with destroy all three times, and I still see no reason for my Shepards  to trust Reaperbrat. My ren would have gone for choice D in a heartbeat, but even my pure paragon would have believed she would end up just like Saren and TIM if she chose control. Losing EDI would be heartbreaking, but as Garrus said, it's the calculus of war.  I admit that scene with her and Joker on Eden Secunda  where she lays her head on his shoulder was cute, even if it was still a shaggy god ending.

I know the EMS was supposed to be fixed, but does anyone know what the minimum number is to get that breath?

[Redbelle]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

--- I was going over the Starboy's Destroy Option explanation dialogue. It struck me that he said "The Crucible is largely intact" when I asked what Destroy would do.

Hold up a second, "Largely Intact?" When I got hit by a Station Wagon, I was "Largely intact" but I still have permanent nerve damage in my left leg. To me, that does not sound like "Complete and undamaged." Does this leave the door open for a Destroy Ending where the Crucible is COMPLETELY, 100%, without any flaws or shortcomings operational? And could THAT Crucible be good enough to kill the Reapers without destroying EDI and the Geth? Even if it just adds a scene of slideshow scientists repairing EDI's body, and maybe building a new version of a Geth mobile platform?

Very interesting... very interesting indeed.

Oh, also? I just looked into that Mass Effect: Infiltrator thing. Shame it's only for mobile devices. I hate Phones and iPads and the like. If I could have paid 5 bucks for a PC version of it, maybe on Steam or something, I'd have done that. Ah well.

Get the Quarians to pop Edi's hood and take a look at the damage! Here! They can use my crowbar.

The thing is, Edi is still a computer inside of Normandy from what I understand. The sexy robot Edi was being piloted remotely. Therefore the real attention should be paid to Edi's core processor........ And if they can fly the Normandy again at the end I have hopes that Edi, likewise, has been restored.

[Wesker1984]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

--- I was going over the Starboy's Destroy Option explanation dialogue. It struck me that he said "The Crucible is largely intact" when I asked what Destroy would do.

Hold up a second, "Largely Intact?" When I got hit by a Station Wagon, I was "Largely intact" but I still have permanent nerve damage in my left leg. To me, that does not sound like "Complete and undamaged." Does this leave the door open for a Destroy Ending where the Crucible is COMPLETELY, 100%, without any flaws or shortcomings operational? And could THAT Crucible be good enough to kill the Reapers without destroying EDI and the Geth? Even if it just adds a scene of slideshow scientists repairing EDI's body, and maybe building a new version of a Geth mobile platform?

Very interesting... very interesting indeed.

Oh, also? I just looked into that Mass Effect: Infiltrator thing. Shame it's only for mobile devices. I hate Phones and iPads and the like. If I could have paid 5 bucks for a PC version of it, maybe on Steam or something, I'd have done that. Ah well.

Maybe if Bioware release the Leviathan DLC some outcome will change at the end of the game. The Leviathan DLC will maybe give us additional choice for the endings. Since the Leviathan is itself a Reaper it can explain to us how to beat it kind without using the crucible thus giving us a Refusal ending were we win against the reapers or giving us the knowlege to perfect the crucible to the point where just the reapers will be killed by the energy wave when chosing the Destroy option.

Maybe i'm wrong but it could be an interesting thing to do for Bioware for the Leviathan DLC.

Modifié par Wesker1984, 28 juin 2012 - 09:56 .

[Redbelle]

Wesker1984 wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...

--- I was going over the Starboy's Destroy Option explanation dialogue. It struck me that he said "The Crucible is largely intact" when I asked what Destroy would do.

Hold up a second, "Largely Intact?" When I got hit by a Station Wagon, I was "Largely intact" but I still have permanent nerve damage in my left leg. To me, that does not sound like "Complete and undamaged." Does this leave the door open for a Destroy Ending where the Crucible is COMPLETELY, 100%, without any flaws or shortcomings operational? And could THAT Crucible be good enough to kill the Reapers without destroying EDI and the Geth? Even if it just adds a scene of slideshow scientists repairing EDI's body, and maybe building a new version of a Geth mobile platform?

Very interesting... very interesting indeed.

Oh, also? I just looked into that Mass Effect: Infiltrator thing. Shame it's only for mobile devices. I hate Phones and iPads and the like. If I could have paid 5 bucks for a PC version of it, maybe on Steam or something, I'd have done that. Ah well.

Maybe if Bioware release the Leviathan DLC some outcome will change at the end of the game. The Leviathan DLC will maybe give us additional choice for the endings. Since the Leviathan is itself a Reaper it can explain to us how to beat it kind without using the crucible thus giving us a Refusal ending were we win against the reapers or giving us the knowlege to perfect the crucible to the point where just the reapers will be killed by the energy wave when chosing the Destroy option.

Maybe i'm wrong but it could be an interesting thing to do for Bioware for the Leviathan DLC.

Pls BW, a Reaper ally cannot just be another count on the EMS chart.

[RinuCZ]

BearlyHere wrote...

I know the EMS was supposed to be fixed, but does anyone know what the minimum number is to get that breath?

3100

Modifié par RinuCZ, 28 juin 2012 - 10:21 .

[Archonsg]

BearlyHere wrote...

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...

I suspect that there was a lot of corporate politics, ego, and internal intrigue at BioWare about how to fix the disastrous "original endings" of Mass Effect 3, which were objectively terrible. They in no way appear to be the work of the team that wrote the rest of this series, and, as I said, it feels like someone decided that they would use the popularity of the prior series installments to become the Stanley Kubrick of video games. The result was calamitous. Imagine now all of the palace machinations once the scope of the business disaster was realized. I am sure that people who had a good relationship with customers (fans) were sent out to do public damage control. I am not surprised that those people, well-intentioned, got out ahead of the people who created the problem. Ultimately, I suspect the writers who made the series great were hailed in to help triage the mess, but in a way that didn't completely embarrass those who made it. The result is the imperfect EC DLC we got. A rewrite of the endings for sure, but not so completely divorced from the "original endings" that you couldn't plausibly contend it was just a "clarification." End result, mediocrity. Not good business but perhaps necessary for the egos involved.

You make a good point.  Bioware/EA is dealing with the aftermath of a perfect storm of bad, worse, and terrible business descisions, from the clearly rushed ending, to deciding people really didn't care what Tali looked like as long as she was cute, to the terrible descision to tie your ending to MP. I still think this is going to come back to haunt them when the next release is due.

People will remember this and some will avoid the next game unless it gets good gamer peer reviews because they don't want to deal with the drama, the money grab, the expectation the players could headcannon the end to figure out what it meant, or with the possibility of another "artistic" mindf**k.  Bioware has always made games that I've wanted not only to replay, but multiple times to try out the various character/class/alingnment combinations. There aren't many games I can say the same thing about.  It's a shame, because even with plotholes the writing is so damn good 95% of the time. In additon to a content editor, they could also use some counseling sessions to figure out why they're so resentful towards their players.

I went with destroy all three times, and I still see no reason for my Shepards  to trust Reaperbrat. My ren would have gone for choice D in a heartbeat, but even my pure paragon would have believed she would end up just like Saren and TIM if she chose control. Losing EDI would be heartbreaking, but as Garrus said, it's the calculus of war.  I admit that scene with her and Joker on Eden Secunda  where she lays her head on his shoulder was cute, even if it was still a shaggy god ending.

I know the EMS was supposed to be fixed, but does anyone know what the minimum number is to get that breath?

I think its stated as 3100 for the "Breath" scene.

And I do think the above is more then likely the situation at EA/Bioware.
They cannot admit to mistake due to liability, they cannot allow the hate to go on as it'll have a "halo effect" and effect other unrelated products. Like SWTOR, Dragon Age 3, Generals 2 and any other future releases.

So they called in the people who wrote the first 95% and dropped the bomb that they'll have to work a way to keep the ending but make it stink less then it did.
Which is what we got, still stinks, but isn't so bad then when compared to what we got at first.

As for EMS, I still think its an idiotic idea to tag it with SP play.
(and no, in case some might think that I am just whining because I don't have the EMS, I went into the end game with more then 15,000 EMS)

[The RPGenius]

Though I know no one actually cares, my long and drawn-out thoughts on whether the Extended Cut solved enough problems with the ending can be found here: http://wwwthinkingin...s-ending-2.html

(The original list of problems I had were here: http://wwwthinkingin...-3s-ending.html )

I know absolutely no one is going to bother to go there and read it, though, so here's the TL;DR version:

The endings, thanks to the EC, are bad.  Very bad.  They're still completely out of place for Mass Effect, they still often make no sense, and Synthesis is still one of the most idiotic, silly, and morally questionable things I've ever seen in a video game.  But a bad ending is still a tremendous improvement over the unfathomable failure of an ending that we had before, and the EC addressed the most important problems, so I can unhappily accept these lousy endings.  Bioware's won me back as a customer...but a very cautious customer, and one that will not hesitate to leave if something like this happens again.  Still, some applause to Bioware for at least turning things around this much.  Has to be the shinest polished turd I ever saw.

[Pinax]

Sorry as well for not going through the whole discussion, just wanted to share some feelings after the EC. Also sorry for the long post.

EC even though it is less stupid than the original endings and patches some of the major plot holes, it does not mean it's not stupid and irrational. The things that I believe the fans wanted to have in the end (reunion with LI, epic final battle, beating the Reapers with united galactic forces, importance of war assets etc.) were not taken into consideration, but left "to the imagination of players" and the things that could be left to the imagination for the good of the whole story (i.e. the motivations of Reapers, who they really are etc.) have been extensively explained. The only problem is that they do not make sense at all, they are even not logical and still they do not stick the whole story we experienced before.

I was very surprised to "discover" in the 15 ending mins of my first ME3 play through that the whole Reaper-galactic life conflict was in fact a war against "chaos" that would be provoked by the eradication of organic life. Oh really? I thought for almost 4 years of my ME gaming we fight against the synthetic Reapers wiping organics and controlling other synthetics to use them against organics ("yo dawg").

Especially when I recalled Sovereign speech on Virmire when he clearly stated that organic life in general is a mistake... Besides that what would be so "chaotic" in organic life extinction and only synthetics remaining? Besides the synthetics have more chances of survival in the extending and in the future more and more colder universe, so... still: where's that chaos, hey?

Sorry, but for me it looks like Drew Carpyshyn took off Bioware the rights to the original ME closure idea and BW had to glue something instead - pity they glued a cut-out to an unfinished Mona Lisa. As far I know Carpyshyn's vision was closer to Reapers preserving memory of organics in the Reapers form because of dark energy spreading and no chances of survival for the organics in the future. This brings the question what life really is and what's worth more: memory of the species or individual life (echoes of this sound in Shepard - EDI dialogues in ME3), is life only about survival or is there something more worth protecting even at the cost of death?

If this concept was rejected or couldn't be used why just not leave this in silence leaving the Reapers and their purposes "beyond our comprehension" and just focus on the fight?

Although I appreciate the effort and a response to the fans which was supposed to be the EC this is still covering glue prints by bad paint and, sorry, as huge fan of all the series I just cannot accept it.

[BearlyHere]

Those who still stand by "artistic integrity" should read The Agony and The Ecstasy," or just watch the old movie, to see what a real artist, Michelangelo, had to contend with from Pope Julius II while working on the Sistine Chapel. Artists always have to answer to their patrons, unless they're independently wealthy. That goes for writers as well. Most have editors they have to submit work to on a regular basis, until they get very popular, like Steven King for example. Then their readers just wish they still had to submit to an editor. In the same way, many movies are test marketed, and if the audiences don't get the ending, or hate it, it can and will be changed. Reworking the ending of a game has plenty of precedent in other creative venues.

[Redbelle]

The RPGenius wrote...

Though I know no one actually cares, my long and drawn-out thoughts on whether the Extended Cut solved enough problems with the ending can be found here: http://wwwthinkingin...s-ending-2.html

(The original list of problems I had were here: http://wwwthinkingin...-3s-ending.html )

I know absolutely no one is going to bother to go there and read it, though, so here's the TL;DR version:

The endings, thanks to the EC, are bad.  Very bad.  They're still completely out of place for Mass Effect, they still often make no sense, and Synthesis is still one of the most idiotic, silly, and morally questionable things I've ever seen in a video game.  But a bad ending is still a tremendous improvement over the unfathomable failure of an ending that we had before, and the EC addressed the most important problems, so I can unhappily accept these lousy endings.  Bioware's won me back as a customer...but a very cautious customer, and one that will not hesitate to leave if something like this happens again.  Still, some applause to Bioware for at least turning things around this much.  Has to be the shinest polished turd I ever saw.

Well I read it, and I think I'd boil the problems you addressed down to this.

Shepard is a soldier, who has, in the past, solved problems he cannot talk his way past, with a gun. Because he's a soldier........

Ok, engineer, adept etc etc....... these are titles to explain his class but he's still an N7 soldier who is supposed to fight battles...... and in every game thus far Shep has had to fight a big bad in the end. Why? Because the big bad end guy is supposed to be the ultimate opposite of our hero and hands up who feels they shot down the ultimate big bad guy.

Hang on, wasn't Harby the big bad? He was in Me2 and makes another appearence in Me3........ eventually. Wasn't Harby the ultimate big bad?

Nooooo, hang on, it was the Catalsyt. The Catalyst was the big bad..........  but he wasn't............ really? I don't know? Maybe it was TIM? Or that limp ninja TIM has on a leash.

The point is, Shepard was not allowed to act in the capactiy of his role come the end. The dialogue wheel is great and all but Shep is an action hero type hero, not a Captain Picard talk your way out of it hero. (feel free to argue over the gameplay vs narrative but understand that ME has always blended the two elements to mutually support each other. The ending was weighed far to heavily in one direction IMO).

So lets summarise. Shepard, the soldier, had nothing to fight against once he gets to the conduit......
Once at the conduit you have to navigate through dialogue......... alot of dialogue. Before the end credits. (ok you can Critical Mission Failure from that point but then it resets and it is then down to not picking that option again or not waiting around to progress. But surely it should be your skill at controlling Shepards combat phase, being action man and all).

Also, I'd like to throw this out there for consideration..... Having replayed Mass Effect 1, now that I've the whole trilogy to compare each individual entry to. I'd rate them comparitively as ME1: 7. It was a great game and the beginning of the franchise, but it was unpolished in terms of gameplay. It had alot of ideas thrown at it. ME2: 8 The ideas had been refined and things seem to zip along nicely. ME2 clearly owed alot to ME1 but ME2 took those ideas and made them better....... unless you count resource scanning. But ME2 was an improvement over ME1.

ME3.......: 7-8. I cannot see any improvement's made since ME2. The door hacks are gone, the codewalls have disapeared. I wasn't able to hack robots to ambush mercs  etc etc....... ME3 feels stripped back. It's focused on the core of what ME is about which is the story and combat, but....... where is the thinking outside of the box? Where did the creativity go? It feels.......... standard. Now I'm happy with standard ME3 cause standard ME is better than standard other stuff.......... but surely based on past performance's the should have seen bits of whimsical, lets make this bit cool by adding a choice to do this that will aid them further on down the line.

Modifié par Redbelle, 28 juin 2012 - 11:41 .

[TrevorHill]

3DandBeyond wrote...

One of the things I will add is that though I hate Destroy for what it does (still genocide), I see it as the only possible authentic ending.

Control and Synthesis both say that people cannot do anything on their own. The reapers have forever been seeding the galaxy with their tech. In Control it's most obvious-people can't achieve on their own and need the reapers to fix it. In Synthesis it's obvious-people can't work out conflict on their own and need intervention, need to be fixed so it never happens.

Neither choice allows for people relying on themselves and on the faith in their own better natures. People become mere children in need of this intrusive overseer who will take care of everything. This could be seen as the devs expose on religious faith, but it lacks this feature. In religious faith it's the human spirit that seeks to do better for something seen as real, but still unseen. It helps formulate values and gives direction at its best.

Control and Synthesis create a "direct intervention", that is tangible and complete, overwhelming and decides values and mandates direction.

It is one thing to believe in something and try to do better. It is another to be forced to do that. Because it also removes any ability to decide for oneself just what "better" is.

Control and Synthesis have many things wrong with them, but they exist to tell people you can't achieve on your own. Mass relays need repair-it's unnecessary to learn how to make one for yourself, because the reapers will fix them OR you will automatically know how to do it, never needing to learn for yourself-the knowledge has been given to you. The growth of the soul (religious or not-the heart) is denied.

It's like having a child. Do everything for that child, tell them what to think, deny them their independent will and they will always remain an immature child. Guide their learning, let them even fail at times, be there when you can, and not always when they want, and they grow and adapt and they learn. Otherwise, they may as well be non-sentient synthetic beings.

           I think you were touching on this a little, but the control and sythesis endings fly in the face of one of the main points of the last 50% of the series. When you meet Legion he tells you all about how technology doesn't move in a straight line, and how using other peoples' technology hinders you in the long run. And Sovereign showed you how using the mass relays made you evolve the way the reapers wanted. And the entire point of the conflict with Cerberus is that Mankind isn't ready to wield the technology of the reapers, because we haven't earned it, and we don't understand it. But when we get to the end, it's totally cool to use the reapers and there technology how we see fit, and changing the natural course of genetic and technological evolution with the figurative push of a button is completely ok, because we've "earned" it now. And the only other option which allows you to fiish off the reapers without turning your back on all the ideals we've come to know in the game, requires you to completely obliterate the race that showed us the other two choices are wrong, and a detriment to society as a whole.

[BlueStorm83]

Wesker1984 wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...

--- I was going over the Starboy's Destroy Option explanation dialogue. It struck me that he said "The Crucible is largely intact" when I asked what Destroy would do.

Hold up a second, "Largely Intact?" When I got hit by a Station Wagon, I was "Largely intact" but I still have permanent nerve damage in my left leg. To me, that does not sound like "Complete and undamaged." Does this leave the door open for a Destroy Ending where the Crucible is COMPLETELY, 100%, without any flaws or shortcomings operational? And could THAT Crucible be good enough to kill the Reapers without destroying EDI and the Geth? Even if it just adds a scene of slideshow scientists repairing EDI's body, and maybe building a new version of a Geth mobile platform?

Very interesting... very interesting indeed.

Oh, also? I just looked into that Mass Effect: Infiltrator thing. Shame it's only for mobile devices. I hate Phones and iPads and the like. If I could have paid 5 bucks for a PC version of it, maybe on Steam or something, I'd have done that. Ah well.

Maybe if Bioware release the Leviathan DLC some outcome will change at the end of the game. The Leviathan DLC will maybe give us additional choice for the endings. Since the Leviathan is itself a Reaper it can explain to us how to beat it kind without using the crucible thus giving us a Refusal ending were we win against the reapers or giving us the knowlege to perfect the crucible to the point where just the reapers will be killed by the energy wave when chosing the Destroy option.

Maybe i'm wrong but it could be an interesting thing to do for Bioware for the Leviathan DLC.

---  How cool would it be if Starboy gives Shep the three options, but then we get a simultaneous Paragon/Renegade interrupt.  And if you pick it, Shepard says something like, "Actually, Leviathan and I came up with a different plan.  That's right, he's still alive.  And he told me all about you and your bull**** reasoning."  Then Leviathan rams the connection between the Crucible and the Catalyst, Shepard scrambles into an opening on his side, and then we get a boss fight where we pilot Leviathan... against the entirety of the Reaper Fleet.

Wishful thinking?  Yes.  Will it happen?  No.  Would it be great?  Yes.

It'll never happen because, well, who would pick any of the 4 existing endings if we had this?

---  You know, all 4 options should be available no matter what our EMS is, they should just get more and more successful as we get more war assets.  At, say, 0 EMS, Synthesis should turn everyone into Husks, Control should make Shepard think like Reapers, Destroy should destroy all technology everywhere, even, like, the Model T ford, and Refusal should lead to an ending where we see a "Seven million years later" movie where the Reapers are still reaping.  And it should work all the way up to a full EMS where Synthesis just makes Organics and Synthetics understand each other and get along without changing them (like, synthesizing their societies, but not their natures) Control would basically turn the reapers' brains, like, "off" and they'd be nothing but starships, Destroy would only kill Starboy, freeing the Reapers and reverting them back to whatever nature they had before he made them into Abominations, and Refusal would allow Shep to actually convince Starboy that he's wrong, and then he'd pull a Saren too, by just deleting himself.  And naturally, NO full EMS choice would end with a Dead Shep.

[BlueStorm83]

--- Also, since it's peripherally related to the very nature of Extended Cuts...

BioWare! There's no reason why you can't end a game with a GREAT ending... and then offer paid DLC that happens AFTER that great ending to offer a new conflict that ALSO has a great ending. I mean, let's suppose that Mass Effect 3 only had 1 ending, killing the Reapers, and EMS had a varying degree of success on how we did that. There could be something else dangerous out there. Maybe another war with the Batarians. Maybe some kind of Supergeth. We could even have to fight off crazed Keepers from hell. I understand that you always feel like you have to top yourself, but honestly? You don't.

The Mass Effect universe was at its best, to me at least, when I was going to different planets and solving whatever unique problem I found there. They didn't have to relate to the main story. Haestrom was cool, and even though we thought it would have a tie-in to the main story, it really didn't. Same with the Thorian; he could have been a standalone episode of Mass Effect: The Series. There's no reason why you couldn't have sealed Mass Effect 3 with a definite ending and then given us (read: sold us) neverending episodic content. Even if it were released on discs we'd need to purchase and install, if it were bigger than the 2g limit on the ECKSBLAH (XBLA, or X-Box Live Arcade)

That's the saddest part of the end of Mass Effect 3: there's no room for a sequel without invalidating at least 3 of the endings. It's a true divergence. Everything that comes out from here on out happens during or before the game. And I ****ing hate Prequels and Side Stories.

[Alamandorious]

You know, now one image I've seen online now fits the Blue ending even more.  And that image is:



Thanks Bioware for making this work even better ^^

Modifié par Alamandorious, 29 juin 2012 - 12:43 .

[Dewitt667]

If this was what the endings were suppose to be, then why didn't they put this in originally?

But you get out, what you put in, and they didn't start with the best of material. I will respect them for sticking to their guns.

Tho i'm still not satisfied because if you read the data entries on the various fleets. The space battle cut scenes do not match up with the entries. I say this because you only see one thanix cannon fired other than the reaper and that is the Normandy's. Reading the entries the Reaper should be soiling themselves if not with the first fleet than the second either way Earth orbit should be littered with Reaper Sushi slices.

I still don't like the use of a deus ex machina in a game built around unity/teamwork and sacrifice. The use of the Crucible with it's "Doomsday" style powers cheapens Shepard's(your) pain and sacrifice.

[BlueStorm83]

Alamandorious wrote...

You know, now one image I've seen online now fits the Blue ending even more.  And that image is:



Thanks Bioware for making this work even better ^^

ROFL.  I love this.  I really, really do.

[Auckmid]

Alamandorious wrote...

You know, now one image I've seen online now fits the Blue ending even more.  And that image is:



Thanks Bioware for making this work even better ^^

Image made me lol. Imo, the control ending was the most satisfying one of all. Becoming a super robot alien god > Having to destroy the Geth and all synthetics in order to get a 2 second breathing scene at the end.

Extended cut endings were 10,000 times better than the originals. All the major plotholes were fixed, closeur was given to most of the characters (even though I found it kind of strange how no closeur was given to the most important person of all in the 1 ending where you survive) and endings finaly had some diversity, so it felt like your desicions mattered. The option of the refusal ending made me lol as Bioware's revenge towards all the people who were mad that they didn't have the option to completely reject the Star Kid's assertions:)

The only real disapointment is from the War Assets. Orignaly, the endings were made so that it was preaty easy to unlock all of them if you played multiplayer, but it was impossible to unlock the secret ending, no matter how high your military strenghth was, if you didn't play multiplayer. Now the endings are made so that it's tricky yet possible to unlock the secret ending if you don't play multiplayer, but rediculously easy to unlock all endings if you do play multiplayer. The most eligant solution imo would be if all of the core endings were based off of EMS, but the unlocking of the trickiest secret endings was based solely off of Military Strength. That way, people who are not completionists but play multiplayer will get a satisfying ending, while people who are completionists, even if they don't play multiplayer, will feel a certain sence of achievement when they unlock the secret endings.

While I'm not sure where Bioware's curent standing toward's any future ending additions is, it would be realy cool if major DLC, such as Leviathan, did also come with the possibility of a new ending choice. Not sure how other people would feel about this, but I would also find it realy cool if there was ever a "Refusal - Good" ending for people with incredibly high military strenghth, in which the galaxys forces and Earth was completely devastated, but they managed to win the war without having to take any extreme acts like synergy or total synthetic destruction. Just an idea, but I would like it a lot:)

[3DandBeyond]

Alleyd, as usual great rendering of Mass Effect Pie. Love it.

[BlueStorm83]

--- I was just informed that there's a Mass Effect 3 Liara Bis.. bishou... bishajewjo statue. You know, the Japanese word that means beauty or something. It's WAY Japan, if you get what I mean. And a little creepy.