2621 réponses à ce sujet

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

That is one smart Hanar!

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

Jnpacblo wrote...

IMO The problem with the Ending were not the lack of endings or the explanation for them. In Fact there are all flavours of outcomes, you can Destroy, Control, Merge and now, even Refuse. The lack of explanation was not the main problem of the finale. I did not need to see the reapers defeated on krogan, Asari, Quarian etc home planets to know they were. or a picture of Zaheed to know what he did next etc.
For me, the problem with the finale is that It was so mediocre with the series expectations, even with the 1.9 gb EC add on.
Remember those feelings at the end of ME2 where you had all your squadmates participating in the final push?, or even in ME1 when you were trying to reach the Citadel controls with Sovereing in the backgroung? well, that feeling was not here.
The main problem for me was the presentation of the final mission, not the outcome of it.
ME3 finalle was not memorable and does not invite you to play the series again.

You are one smart Hanar.  Or  "This one is did not find the ending replayable." 

[3DandBeyond]

Benchpress610 wrote...

The EC does a good job in giving some closure and resolution to some of the problems with the original endings. However it fails to address the main issue why the ending fails: the Catalyst.
 
The Catalyst cheapens the story and the terrifying threat the reapers represented. It is superfluous to the story and breaks its narrative. I think whoever came up with the idea of the God child thought that the narrative was flowing in a simple-linear pattern and tried to make it more interesting by introducing this character with its crazy logic at the worst possible moment, botching the ending ant the whole story with it.
 
Why did they see the need to go all philosophical and way into fantasy land with the notion that the reapers were preserving the “essence” of advance civilizations in a reaper form?  By doing what…? Killing them and making them into a DNA paste? Are you serious…? This breaks with the concept and genre Mass Effect was based on from the beginning.   
 
So what’s wrong with a simple-linear story? They have been around since primitive men sat around the campfire telling stories. The reason they are still used is because they work. Simplicity has a beauty on its own… The reapers were the perfect enemy and didn’t need to be explained away. They were awesome killing machines from a remote past bent on absolute destruction. Their unknowable unflinching resolve on total extermination made them the stuff of nightmares. Paraphrasing one my favorites lines from “The Terminator”… Those reapers are out there, they can’t be reason with, they can’t be bargain with. They absolutely won’t stop until we are exterminated….what can be more frightening and terrifying than that? … The shiny blob (as I like to call it) just waters down and dissolves that awesomeness and cataclysmic anticipation for the final resolution of the plot…
 
 OK, you want to explain the reapers motives? This is how I would explain them: They were created as war machines by an ancient civilization and somehow became self-aware and exterminated their creators before they could deactivate them. Ring ay bells?...They are in an infinite logic loop of self preservation and return every 50K years to purge the galaxy of any civilization advanced enough to acquire the technology to destroy them … there simple, no magic, no shiny blob, just hard sci-fi . I know it’s not an original concept and it has been done, but hey… it works every time.

Fantastic post and says it all about what the reapers should have been, awesome, frightening, unreasoning, killing machines.  More like what the kid says they are in saying they are like a cleansing fire.  There's the contradiction.  He gives them an unneeded purpose-unneeded for the story.  They should just exist and kill.

[9Enrico0]

Archonsg wrote...

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...

That works for me. And it makes much more sense.

So does this, which is very well done for trying to splice together a video. I am amazed when people do this.

---->       <-------

BIOWARE... this is a destroy ending... a fan make an ending better than your expert writers, programmer,, ecc ecc....

unbelievable 

Modifié par 9Enrico0, 29 juin 2012 - 08:03 .

[3DandBeyond]

9Enrico0 wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...



---  Even a scene of Shepard in the ICU at a hospital, unconcious, but alive, with a scene of the Normandy landing in the parking lot outside.  DAMMIT, they crushed my station wagon!

mmmm. isn't a bad idea... the entire crew to the hospital around the bed of shepard, while waiting to wake up.and next shepard opens his eyes and the first person he looks at is the romance ... and then says. "we did it" THE END... is difficult to think and realize this... ? need a genius?? <_< (this only for the destructon ending)

The reason they gave for no such ending and I don't buy it at all, is that everyone wanted something different in a reunion scene.  Well, they showed the memorial scene.  That could have been cut and replaced by a simple reunion scene.  Just a cut to Anderson's name on the wall, the Normandy leaves, and a quick reunion that shows Shepard alive with LI and friends.  We didn't deserve this though.

[BearlyHere]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

--- He's there to bring about a state in which organics and synthetics are not in conflict with each other. That's his nature. That is what he is and does.

He's not here to save Organics from Synthetics anymore. Now he's trying to "preserve" them both.

The problem arises in that he considers rendering something down and storing it as preserving it, and taking a scan of something and then blowing it up as preserving it.

Don't get me wrong, including him at all is still changing the nature of the narrative at the last minute, but now at least what they change it to isn't something that is self contradictory.

It may be because I just made a batch of strawberry jam, but now I have this image of a jar labeled "People Preserves" stuck in my head. Yum!

I found I could only play with my full ren, though still not full enough to get that last ren dialog option with TIM. For him, having given Legion to Cerberus, who turned on him and proved that the Geth couldn't be trusted, the Destroy ending was a no-brainer.  But even my full paragon would have trouble with Control seeing how well it worked for Saren and TIM. She would probably choose synthesis, if she decided she could trust this insane AI at all.

I am glad we got closure and aren't expected to headcannon the ending we want, but I still agree that if Shep lives, they could have thrown in another simple  screenshot of Shep in the hospital, where "LI" was at his side while he/she slowly recovered. They wouldn't even had had to do a scene with all the LIs, which is the arguement I've seen against showing Shepard as more than a gasping torso. As much as people say they're happier now that they have closure, I bet a good many of them would have been really happy to at least see that Shep did't die slowly alone in the dark. They could have let us go out as winners. After all, it is a game, and don't most of us play to win?

[3DandBeyond]

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...

That works for me. And it makes much more sense.

So does this, which is very well done for trying to splice together a video. I am amazed when people do this.

It's funny you and I must have come upon this about the same time.  I posted just a bit before you  .

This is now my ending.  Very well done for femShep and Liara--not for everyone I know, but it works ok for me, better than what we have.  And though I know it's not of the resolution of the game, it is about 60 Mb.   And someone did it within 2 days.  Would that have been so hard for Bioware to do?

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

3DandBeyond wrote...

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...

That works for me. And it makes much more sense.

So does this, which is very well done for trying to splice together a video. I am amazed when people do this.

It's funny you and I must have come upon this about the same time.  I posted just a bit before you  .

This is now my ending.  Very well done for femShep and Liara--not for everyone I know, but it works ok for me, better than what we have.  And though I know it's not of the resolution of the game, it is about 60 Mb.   And someone did it within 2 days.  Would that have been so hard for Bioware to do?

No it wouldn't have been.  But I am grateful for the fan who did it.  A nice job.

And you posted first, so you win!

[3DandBeyond]

BearlyHere wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...

--- He's there to bring about a state in which organics and synthetics are not in conflict with each other. That's his nature. That is what he is and does.

He's not here to save Organics from Synthetics anymore. Now he's trying to "preserve" them both.

The problem arises in that he considers rendering something down and storing it as preserving it, and taking a scan of something and then blowing it up as preserving it.

Don't get me wrong, including him at all is still changing the nature of the narrative at the last minute, but now at least what they change it to isn't something that is self contradictory.

It may be because I just made a batch of strawberry jam, but now I have this image of a jar labeled "People Preserves" stuck in my head. Yum!

I found I could only play with my full ren, though still not full enough to get that last ren dialog option with TIM. For him, having given Legion to Cerberus, who turned on him and proved that the Geth couldn't be trusted, the Destroy ending was a no-brainer.  But even my full paragon would have trouble with Control seeing how well it worked for Saren and TIM. She would probably choose synthesis, if she decided she could trust this insane AI at all.

I am glad we got closure and aren't expected to headcannon the ending we want, but I still agree that if Shep lives, they could have thrown in another simple  screenshot of Shep in the hospital, where "LI" was at his side while he/she slowly recovered. They wouldn't even had had to do a scene with all the LIs, which is the arguement I've seen against showing Shepard as more than a gasping torso. As much as people say they're happier now that they have closure, I bet a good many of them would have been really happy to at least see that Shep did't die slowly alone in the dark. They could have let us go out as winners. After all, it is a game, and don't most of us play to win?

This is it, but I think it's made worse because they had no problem making personalized memorial wall scenes.  That means they could easily have made some itty bitty personalized reunion scene.  They already had the modeling done, just replace the memorial with a different location, adjust the expressions on the faces, insert appropriate LI and it would have worked.  I've done 3D Modeling with the program used to make Babylon 5-a very long time ago and with a CAD program.  For the reunion scene it could have been pretty much the same as the memorial wall with a different "set" and camera placement.  It really wouldn't have been difficult.

[MechaGaiden]

All in all the Extended Cut was decent. I genuinely got the feeling that they were trying to listen to the fan's largest complaints with the DLC and they nailed quite a few of those complaints. The emotional side of things were handled well and the addition of the new Refusal ending was a nice stylistic choice.

Still, I hate how in the Destroy ending we still don't get closure. God knows how Shephard survived that, but we are still left hanging. It's arguable they wanted to leave his fate ambiguous, but it just leaves us hanging because that's a major plot point they left unexplored.

But in the end, there is one thing that Bioware can't escape:

They salvaged the current ending from its abysmal depths and put together something coherent to placate the fans. Somehow I have trouble being completely satisfied with an ending that just patched up the gaping holes in the original.

They didn't deliver the earth-shattering ending that a series with the scope of Mass Effect deserves. The ending is merely an alright conclusion to a story that deserved an amazing end.

I still think that ME3 needs a new remade version of the game, ala The Witcher Enhanced Edition, as unlikely as that is to happen. If they got rid of some of the ret-conning and polished up the game, it could very well be a modern classic.

Modifié par MechaGaiden, 29 juin 2012 - 08:33 .

[Pinax]

I agree with the previous posts that keeping Reapers and their motives "beyond our comprehension" could do only good for the entire story. The closure I and many other players wanted is how my actions will affect the future of the galaxy, the races we interacted with and the ones we cared about and not some pseudo-philosophical expose that turns the Reapers into sharp teeth puppies on a wrong leash.

To be honest while re-playing and finishing my game for the EC I was wondering if those who wrote these endings ever played ME1 and ME2 or they just read a short summary of their storyline. I do not want to insult here anyone, I simply do not understand how such a concept as a Starchild could ever cross a mind of someone who knew the ME universe and not be cut straight away by Occam's razor?

As pointed in posts above, there are so many possibilities of possible outcome...! Can the Reapers can be ever defeated and the cycle broken? At what cost? What is the limit of sacrifice that can be made? Follow Saren path and TIM reasoning and try to gain control over the Reapers/prove yourself useful in one or another way or reject these and choose freedom, even at high cost?

A famous "Artistic Integrity" of the whole ME project could be proven only if all the elements of the puzzle would stick together, ideally if the players could discover, while re-playing the whole series after the end of ME3, the details they did not understood at the beginning or simply did not care about in the previous parts explaining and completing the whole story. It's just like watching first season of Twin Peaks after finishing the whole series and discovering that the woman with a log and all the strange things you noticed at the beginning actually make sense and you gain a new approach to the whole story. Currently focusing on the details from ME1 and ME2 rather unveils the weak points of Catalyst's reasoning instead of supporting anything in his message.

[DjZolt]

I think maybe it was Shepard's last breath in the red ending - so he dies in any ending...

[3DandBeyond]

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...

No it wouldn't have been.  But I am grateful for the fan who did it.  A nice job.

And you posted first, so you win!

Yeah it was funny thought it was a newer one and laughed when I saw it.  Not to insult, but great minds think alike.

[3DandBeyond]

DjZolt wrote...

I think maybe it was Shepard's last breath in the red ending - so he dies in any ending...

Ha ha, nice try.  It's a breath in not out.  For one thing there's the motion of the chest and for another they make different sounds.  It's very hard to get a breath out to sound like that because it's a rush of air.  I could get more explicit about it, but I know it was a gasp in.

[BearlyHere]

3DandBeyond wrote...

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...

That works for me. And it makes much more sense.

So does this, which is very well done for trying to splice together a video. I am amazed when people do this.

It's funny you and I must have come upon this about the same time.  I posted just a bit before you  .

This is now my ending.  Very well done for femShep and Liara--not for everyone I know, but it works ok for me, better than what we have.  And though I know it's not of the resolution of the game, it is about 60 Mb.   And someone did it within 2 days.  Would that have been so hard for Bioware to do?

I agree, in the words of Zevran,  this was ridiculously awesome.

[SonicAF]

I know my message will get lost but those endings are !ing unbelievable! Just INCREDIBLE! That was worth waiting guys. Let those paragons control! Let those renegades DESTROY!

Oh my god! That reapshep monologue is...it is...

[DjZolt]

SonicAF wrote...

Oh my god! That reapshep monologue is...it is...

Yep, I'm still shivering, comrade.

[3DandBeyond]

SonicAF wrote...

I know my message will get lost but those endings are !ing unbelievable! Just INCREDIBLE! That was worth waiting guys. Let those paragons control! Let those renegades DESTROY!

Oh my god! That reapshep monologue is...it is...

I'm going to say that no choice is paragon.  Listen to that speech again.  The Shreaper says the person it was knew s/he had to become something greater and talked about the power in control-totally not what a paragon is about.  And the scene is scary.  The more I listen to it the worse it gets. 

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

DjZolt wrote...

I think maybe it was Shepard's last breath in the red ending - so he dies in any ending...

Not according the the Strategy Guide BioWare sold players for $40.  In it, the Destroy ending with a "Readiness Rating" above 5000 means "Shepard lives."

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

According to the Strategy Guide, by the way, leaving aside fail endings like the destruction of Earth, the order of difficulty in achieving the endings from easiest to hardest are: control, synthesis, destroy, in that order. With Destroy being the only ending where "Shepard lives" and where it is the hardest ending (requires the most Readiness Rating points) to achieve.

[KiganMatsuei]

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...

According to the Strategy Guide, by the way, leaving aside fail endings like the destruction of Earth, the order of difficulty in achieving the endings from easiest to hardest are: control, synthesis, destroy, in that order. With Destroy being the only ending where "Shepard lives" and where it is the hardest ending (requires the most Readiness Rating points) to achieve.

It was misleading, really. It made you think there was a difference and that you could see Shepard reunite.

Of course, looking at it while ignoring the endings we have, it kind of looks like levels of victory.

Control is like submitting to what the Reapers want, Synthesis is the compromise, Destroy is what you've been fighting for.

But of course, that is only if you have no idea what those endings really are.

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

KiganMatsuei wrote...

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...

According to the Strategy Guide, by the way, leaving aside fail endings like the destruction of Earth, the order of difficulty in achieving the endings from easiest to hardest are: control, synthesis, destroy, in that order. With Destroy being the only ending where "Shepard lives" and where it is the hardest ending (requires the most Readiness Rating points) to achieve.

It was misleading, really. It made you think there was a difference and that you could see Shepard reunite.

Of course, looking at it while ignoring the endings we have, it kind of looks like levels of victory.

Control is like submitting to what the Reapers want, Synthesis is the compromise, Destroy is what you've been fighting for.

But of course, that is only if you have no idea what those endings really are.

It would be weird though to have a game where the way success is scored doesn't correlate to the desirability of the ending.

[TheDrekey]

Don't think anyone cares now, but my reaction to the ending:
meh....Start with a plot hole, and ends by ignoring that I'm still alive in the middle of the rubble.

I would like to make it clear though, that I'm sincerely thankful to Bioware for the effort. A very big thank you to all the team for the time and effort you put into this. It is not without strong point and nice things. It's a very big evolution on the last version.

And that new text in the final message, talk about a olive branch. Well done Bioware. I dare say you did good. It was not awesome, not has epic as much of us would like, but I guess we're very hard to please.

Thank you Bioware.

Modifié par TheDrekey, 29 juin 2012 - 10:25 .

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

Maybe we can get pulled out of the rubble by Marauder Shields.

[TheDrekey]

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...

Maybe we can get pulled out of the rubble by Marauder Shields.

Did you notice his health bar/shield bar its not there anymore? Or did I missed it? Funny details

Modifié par TheDrekey, 29 juin 2012 - 10:32 .