172 réponses à ce sujet

[Pseron Wyrd]

Tassiaw wrote...

I disagree. Star Wars is science fiction.

George Lucas disagrees. He thinks Star Wars is fantasy, not science fiction.

[Darth_Trethon]

KotOR stomps anything DAO has thrown at us story wise. Yet another game with the potential to be better than KotOR takes its place in line behind the greatest game ever made so far. All is not lost however....large expansions for DAO and mostly ME2 still hold the potential to become the greatest of all time.

[Puppy Love]

I loved Kotor but um, as for plot twists being so amazing I don't see it. 1st time I played the game I knew nothing about it but that it was supposably good, and it was, but the whole time I'd keep looking up at my friend on the other side of the room like "this is going to happen isn't it?" He kept trying to deny or say I'll see. Then it turned out over and over again I was right. There were literally no surprises for me. It's like that movie "sixth sense" obvious as can be. Sometimes I think people purposely act surprised by these things or something. Heck I knew who my character was literally after the very first cut scene of the game. It... Was... Obvious... and a tad cliche.



That said loved Kotor, loved the characters, loved the plot but the plot twists in that game were FAR from extraordinary. The hints were too many AND too obvious.

[The Capital Gaultier]

Faerieheart wrote...

I loved Kotor but um, as for plot twists being so amazing I don't see it. 1st time I played the game I knew nothing about it but that it was supposably good, and it was, but the whole time I'd keep looking up at my friend on the other side of the room like "this is going to happen isn't it?" He kept trying to deny or say I'll see. Then it turned out over and over again I was right. There were literally no surprises for me. It's like that movie "sixth sense" obvious as can be. Sometimes I think people purposely act surprised by these things or something. Heck I knew who my character was literally after the very first cut scene of the game. It... Was... Obvious... and a tad cliche.

That said loved Kotor, loved the characters, loved the plot but the plot twists in that game were FAR from extraordinary. The hints were too many AND too obvious.

That's good foreshadowing.  It would be a bad twist if it was completely unexpected.

Modifié par The Capital Gaultier, 01 janvier 2010 - 01:08 .

[Abriael_CG]

Personally I can't bring myself to like the KOTOR setting, and i consider it the worst and least appealing part of the star wars timeline. That's why DA:O wins hands down. The IP is simply way more interesting in my eyes. Not to mention that the fact that DA is an original IP gives bioware much more leeway to create what they want instead of being subject to Lucas' whims.

Pseron Wyrd wrote...
George Lucas disagrees. He thinks Star Wars is fantasy, not science fiction.

He disagrees with a lot of things, quite oft, even with himself.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 01 janvier 2010 - 01:27 .

[Allen63]

KotOR.
That was the plot they should have made into a Star Wars movie. Still time to do it :happy:

[Darth_Trethon]

There is nothing story wise that DAO does remotely as well as KotOR....the plot twists mostly revolves around a guy you barely meet or have met in the books but fully expect him to turn bad but it's mostly an eyerolling moment rather than something of actual surprise and the other twist revolves around a revelation about what is required to defeat the big baddie of the game but you have a way out....and even if you didn't you can simply send one of two other dislikable characters to do the deed for you. Oh and then there's power struggle....I was totally shocked and surprised to see that.....not.



KotOR's plot was the most unpredictable and moving of all plots because it revolved around your character and it hit you after doing three quarters of the game when you have already established your personalities and trusted NPCs that fought at your side when the entire world was flipped upside down from under your feet. The game's perfection and magnitude can only be properly appreciated by those who didn't spoil it for themselves by jumping up and down friends and family to tell them....even denial can easily be seen through if they aren't good liars and expecting a grand plot twist of all times also makes it easier to guess because you become more accepting of thinking about the unthinkable.



At any rate KotOR stomps DAO in every single imaginable aspect.



Now ME2's reveled initial plot twist revolving around the game's beginning is the richest piece of plot to exist since KotOR where those you thought enemies are the ones to aid you and be your allies....simply reading about it made ME2 already feel almost as good as KotOR and that's just the beginning....if they can deliver one more powerful twist then ME2 can be better than KotOR.

[Puppy Love]

The Capital Gaultier wrote...

Faerieheart wrote...

I loved Kotor but um, as for plot twists being so amazing I don't see it. 1st time I played the game I knew nothing about it but that it was supposably good, and it was, but the whole time I'd keep looking up at my friend on the other side of the room like "this is going to happen isn't it?" He kept trying to deny or say I'll see. Then it turned out over and over again I was right. There were literally no surprises for me. It's like that movie "sixth sense" obvious as can be. Sometimes I think people purposely act surprised by these things or something. Heck I knew who my character was literally after the very first cut scene of the game. It... Was... Obvious... and a tad cliche.

That said loved Kotor, loved the characters, loved the plot but the plot twists in that game were FAR from extraordinary. The hints were too many AND too obvious.

That's good foreshadowing.  It would be a bad twist if it was completely unexpected.

Foreshadowing is a hard thing to balance.  The goal is to have enough there that the audience goes "oh yeah how'd I miss that, wow cool." or "I think this is going to happen but I'm not sure, am I right?" too much and the reaction is rolled eyes and "can you be any more obvious?"  Too little and the audience is like "Huh?  WTH?"

Unfortunately for people like me foreshadowing is balanced towards the less aware masses, which means what falls in the first category for me, falls into the WTH category for them.  Which is sad

[Grommash94]

It comes down to what genre you like. Star wars is science fantasy, DAO is like high/dark fantasy. You can't say one plot was better than the other. They are different styles altogether.

[Darth_Trethon]

Grommash94 wrote...

It comes down to what genre you like. Star wars is science fantasy, DAO is like high/dark fantasy. You can't say one plot was better than the other. They are different styles altogether.

Oh YES I can and I do say that DAO's plot twists were poor in comparrison. DAO throws a twist at you too early that either revolves around a character you know too litttle of to care or be shocked when he does what he does or you are fully expecting him to turn bad....depending on whether you read the novels and know him. Then the other twists revolves around how to beat the big baddie but you have a couple ways out and it has no impact on your end goals or mission. There are a lot of interesting implications if you sit and think about certain actions but it's all guess work without substantial meaning and the immediate punch of the revelation is weak in comparrison to that of KotOR.

KotOR literally flips all your assumptions and given information upside down and completely out of nowhere. You are literally forced to stop and fully reconsidder everything from your personality to your allies and mission objectives. If you are immersed in the story the shock is a killer.

You are trying to separate the genres and say they aren't comparable you are 100% wrong. They are both fantasy RPGs that feel and play the same with different timelines and worlds. It's like comparing a thin gray sweater(DAO) with a thick, comfortable and warm sweater(KotOR) during a harsh winter where simply leaving the house freezes your bones......one of those is clearly better than the other. Will you say that you can't compare a thin sweater to a thick sweater? You might but you'd be wrong because one will deffinitely be better than the other.

[Darth_Trethon]

99% of the RPGs out there are poor(like a t-shirt during winter time), all BioWare games except KotOR are good(like a thin sweater during wintertime) and KotOR is just simply amazing(like a thick warm sweater during wintertime).

Modifié par Darth_Trethon, 01 janvier 2010 - 02:55 .

[Grommash94]

It is your opinion then...I am not saying that KOTOR's twists weren't great, but they are different styles altogether.

[Sidney]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

At any rate KotOR stomps DAO in every single imaginable aspect.

Not sure I'd go that far.

I'd challenge that clearly on the NPC's in both games where KoTOR fals way, way short. I'd also add that KoTOR is burdened by the Star Wars realm like BG was weighed down by the AD&D system. Star Wars is a familar medium but in the end it is a simplistic world (light and dark side, little sense of a real world) that because of it's own mythology is grossly unbalanced - I literally didn't need my other party members as a top end Sith.

The plot in KoTOR is tippy top and all the "I saw that coming folks" are basically full of it - everyone sees it coming after the fact - but it is not, for me, an all around better experience than DOA.

[GHL_Soul_Reaver]

Dragonage here... to me the gameplay really suck in kotor, good story in kotor though... but really.. come on.. the way you had to do things in kotor plain out sucked.

It is an obsidian game anyhow... so what can you expect?

[Grommash94]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

99% of the RPGs out there are poor(like a t-shirt during winter time), all BioWare games except KotOR are good(like a thin sweater during wintertime) and KotOR is just simply amazing(like a thick warm sweater during wintertime).

BG kicks KOTOR's butt anyday imo. And, to me, DA is more or less an equal gaming experience to BG.

[Apophis2412]

Combat: DAO
DAO's combat system is easier to use and has more features. What's not to like?

Storyline: DAO
The only good thing about Kotor's storyline was the plot twist. DAO's plot twists (like the fact that a GW dies when slaying the Archdemon) came out of nowhere.
I also liked the fact that you were more personally involved in the quest for the Star Forge. In DAO  there is no real motivation  for most charactersto stop the Blight. Why would a Dwarven Noble or Dalish care about the fate of Ferelden?
The thing I don't l Kotor's storyline is that it is so 'clean'. There is no racial tension, no politics, no people hating the Jedi for what they have done, etc. Basically it's just a boring black and white story, a fight between the good Jedi and Republic versus the evil Empire and the Sith.
DAO is far more 'realistic', with it's grey-grey morality.

Villian: DAO
Darth Malak was really over the top evil. It was just ridicilous. Loghain on the other hand was far more human. Even on these boards people still can't decide if Loghain was really evil or just misguided.

Characters:
I always divide the companions in the RPG's I play into the Alpha or the Beta group. The Alpha's are relevant to the storyline and are aquired very early on in the game. The Beta's mostly just tag along for the ride.

Alpha group: Tie
Kotor: Bastila, Carth.
Dao: Alistair, Dog, Morrigan
All of these characters are unique and I like them very much.

Beta group: Kotor
I don't really care for a lot of the characters that DAO gave us. Examples are Sten, Oghren, Zevran, Shale and Wynne. While they may be very different from each other, their personalities were nothing special.
Kotor on the other hand gave us many memorable characters like HK-47, Jolee Bindo and even 'Big Z'.

Romance: Tie
I felt indifferent about the Carth, Juhani, Zevran and Morrigan romances. Although they were nicely written I never really connected with them.
Of the remaining three romances the Alistair romance was by far the best. Although the guy sucks at being a Grey Warden and king, he never messes up being  a great lover. I really liked his personality and th way he dotes on the PC.
The Bastila romance was nice. Although I still think that Bastila is the best male romance since BG2, she reminded me too much of Aerie. While Bastila's insecurity was amusing at first, after a few conversations I felt like killing her. 

[Elemental_805]

Dragon Age>Kotor>Jade Empire>>>Mass Effect... In my opinon
If Jade Empire was alittle longer then it would have been way better than Kotor.

[bussinrounds]

I'll take a high/dark fantasy over star wars any day. That being said, i'm looking foward to playing Kotor and JE for the first time. ( I have a ps3 but a friend gave me his old xbox ). Too bad the BG series wasn't on it also.

[MassEffect762]

KOTOR by a LOOOOOONG Shot.

[Elemental_805]

Tassiaw wrote...

Elemental_805 wrote...

Dragon Age>Kotor>Jade Empire>>>Mass Effect... In my opinon
If Jade Empire was alittle longer then it would have been way better than Kotor.

You liked Jade Empire more than Mass Effect? You're insane.

Yep I liked Jade Empire way more then Mass Effect, and yes I am insane

[cf2004]

i'm working on a KOTOR2 TSL to DAO conversion, see for more details



http://social.biowar...m/project/1595/



get involved!!

[JKJEDIKNIGHT]

The plot twist in KOTOR has been featured in many "wtf moments of video gaming" and various other different named top 10 lists. DAO lacks that because really, were there any major plot twists in DAO? About the closest thing to plot twists in DAO is character leaving and such. KOTOR Had that as well. If you stay Dark Side with Bastilla, the 2 jedi (can't remember their names" turn against you and you fight them to the death. KOTOR ranks in my top 3 RPG's ever made. The 1st being Chrono Trigger, the 2nd being Final Fantasy X, and the 3rd being KOTOR. As far as KOTOR 2........not so much. Major disappointment, with possibly the most anticlimactic ending ever. I actually played KOTOR in the weeks leading up to DAO's release lol.

[ozenglish]

ThessalyCousaland wrote...


I'll just take Carth and Alistair and be on my way. :>

As long as I get to walk away with Bastilla or my Uber hot female Revan and Leliana then we have a deal....  

And to all those saying KoTOR sucked, well yes it did, because it wasn't made by Bioware.

Modifié par ozenglish, 20 janvier 2010 - 05:02 .