172 réponses à ce sujet

[akkaze]

I'm just repeating but -

KOTOR was an amazing game with an amazing plot. And an amazing climax. So generally, amazing. (Or as Zaph might be moved to observe, amazingly amazing). Plus, as I have not been the first to point out - Star Wars. Wheeeeeee.

DAO is a much more recent game (obviously), and is a different style of game (less tactical in terms of combat engine). They are both pretty heavily plotted/linear but in both cases it's in the service of a fantastic story with strong writing and effective characterization, so that's fine with me.

Could I pick one as better?

Well, I generally enjoy tactical combat more than action-adventure style combat; but then DAO never set out to be some sort of P&P rpg clone so that's not really a just criticism.

KOTOR took me much longer to play, I guess that's a plus. But then again, DAO I can see myself replaying more than once; the origin stories and how they affect/inflect the main plot really does work as a strat to encourage repeat plays.

In a sense I found the characters in DAO "deeper" than in KOTOR. But then again I can't really say I ended the game less attached emotionally to my KOTOR buddies than I was to my DAO ones. I'm not exactly sure why.

The plot in KOTOR was pretty "twisty" as people have observed. I think potentially the story in DAO was just as (or at least, satisfyingly) "twisty" in principle, but maaaaybe sometimes the storytelling was undercut by the cut-scene illustrations. I don't want to crit them because on the whole I think the DAO animation (in terms of its storytelling, not technology) was pretty effective and immersive - but at some moments I did find some "odd" directorial choices drew me out of the moment, in a way that the less ambitious style of KOTOR did not. (As a point of comparison, having recently started a replay of Mass Effect in preparation for ME2, I think ME does rather better in the "cinematic storytelling" department.)

(Oh and look, to people who say "What's the big deal with the plot twist in KOTOR?" - ok, well I guess it's a subjective thing. I just know that reveal in my first play of KOTOR was one of the most wtf moments in my roleplaying life. You can play a stack of rpgs and never get a moment like that. Again, it's subjective. But I'll always love KOTOR for that scene.)

Overall, well, I wouldn't give up either of them.

One question - I tried to like Jade Empire, I really did. But the action arcade control thing I just could never get over. I've started it like what maybe 5 times? And never got further than maybe 3 hours in. Someone tell me I'm crazy please. I want to like it really I do.

Lastly, Alistair > Carth. Alistair is still a bit too whiny for my taste but Carth is way worse (sorry Carth). (Why do you do that Bioware writers?)

Modifié par akkaze, 20 janvier 2010 - 05:24 .

[bussinrounds]

The combat in KOTOR was way too easy. ( on all modes )

Modifié par bussinrounds, 20 janvier 2010 - 05:33 .

[sylinmino]

any1 who hates star wars has a big bias which i can't really understand. but either way, KOTOR wins by a long shot, even when its 6 years older. notice how it won best pc game in every place that year, best xbox game in every place, and according to statistics, about 50 game of the year awards! didn't even know there were that many! it also won about 20 awards for hk-47, who comes into place with my favorite game characters of all time (mordin solus and urdnot wrex included). and for the record, lucas wrote the story



so which wins? KOTOR

[traversc]

sylinmino wrote...

any1 who hates star wars has a big bias which i can't really understand. but either way, KOTOR wins by a long shot, even when its 6 years older. notice how it won best pc game in every place that year, best xbox game in every place, and according to statistics, about 50 game of the year awards! didn't even know there were that many! it also won about 20 awards for hk-47, who comes into place with my favorite game characters of all time (mordin solus and urdnot wrex included). and for the record, lucas wrote the story

so which wins? KOTOR

Yeah, I basically agree.   KOTOR is much better story-wise than DA:O.  However, one thing in favor of Dragon Age is that it still has tons of potential, whereas KOTOR never had a chance because of f***ing Lucas Arts.  

There was one thing I didn't like about KOTOR and that is they never included the best ending:

Modifié par traversc, 12 mars 2010 - 05:43 .

[errant_knight]

Kotor was clever, but depressing. It left me with a bad taste in my mouth. Dragon Age has dark elements, but you can get a win without feeling irredeemably tainted. Well, you're tainted, but not that way.



The characters in Dragon Age are much more well rounded and realistic, as well.

[RobUnreal]

They're both awesome games. I was completely addicted to KOTOR when it came out. But, although I'm also a huge fan of Star Wars, I go with Dragon Age.



Plot wise, they're both get the job done. But, I feel like I'm more involved with the story in Dragon Age than in KOTOR. With KOTOR, I felt like I was playing another Star Wars game, as opposed to a new character in a new world with it's own rich history, culture, and regions.

[krylo]

KotoR was cartoony. I'm saying it.

Here's KotoR's moral choices:

Basitla/Carth: THERE IS A BURNING ORPHANGE OVER THERE!

1: Rescue orphans.
2: Kick puppies.
3: Mind control nearby hobo into rescuing orphans. Laugh a little if he burns.

And it was kind of pathetic/silly because Bastila'd be all "I don't know how you resist the dark side so easily! I could never!" and I'm like, "Well, I guess... I just... I just don't WANT to murder babies? I mean, I doubt they'd even have good loot?"

On the other hand DA was all: "There is a demon possessed child do you:
1: Kill child to save village.
2: Kill mother to save child.
3: Risk child killing mother and village while you dick around for two days in the hopes you can save the child without killing anyone."

It had much more realistic moral dilemmas and, though I was disappointed occasionally, resolutions.

As a result I can replay DA multiple times with multiple multi-faceted moral outlooks. In KotoR I couldn't even finish off a dark side playthrough because it wasn't even evil. It was just Chaotic Stupid. It was either be the morally upstanding hero, who maybe abuses force suggestion once or twice, or be a complete raving moron who kills people and tortures them even when it would, ostensibly, make your job harder.

Ugh.

I did fully enjoy my light side guardian play through I did first... and it may even compare favorably to DA--but only in that one possible method of playing will it compare favorably to any moral method of playing through DA.

As a result, I must give the win in this to DA.

Modifié par krylo, 12 mars 2010 - 06:31 .

[sonofalich]

KOTOR was and is my first love when it comes to rpg's, nothing shall ever take its place

[Faust1979]

Dragon Age feels more epic and some of the main quests are quite long and cool like the urn quest. But both plots have a lot of the same things. Especially the treaties quests and the map quests. Helping abunch of people that can't do things for themselves. I'm kinda tired of that formula myself. I hope the next Dragon Age game has chapters like Jade Empire. But I have to say I do like Dragon Age better because of the characters and the awesome cut scenes

[Vicious]

KOTOR had a better final battle.

 3: Risk child killing mother and village while you dick around for two days in the hopes you can save the child without killing anyone."

Yep, and an ugly failure for a game that billed itself on making tough choices - you can spend as much time as you want to go to the circle and absolutely nothing happens, despite the fact that several characters state there may be consequences to taking the high road... there are none.

Modifié par Vicious, 12 mars 2010 - 06:59 .

[krylo]

Vicious wrote...

KOTOR had a better final battle.

 3: Risk child killing mother and village while you dick around for two days in the hopes you can save the child without killing anyone."

Yep, and an ugly failure for a game that billed itself on making tough choices - you can spend as much time as you want to go to the circle and absolutely nothing happens, despite the fact that several characters state there may be consequences to taking the high road... there are none.

Did say I was disappointed sometimes by the resolutions.

The choice itself, however, was still better than any of the "Save the world ORRRRRR rape newborn puppies in front of nuns" choices that KotoR (and most other moral choice games of the era) had, though.

Modifié par krylo, 12 mars 2010 - 07:08 .

[Trackrtar]

Vicious wrote...

KOTOR had a better final battle.

 3: Risk child killing mother and village while you dick around for two days in the hopes you can save the child without killing anyone."

Yep, and an ugly failure for a game that billed itself on making tough choices - you can spend as much time as you want to go to the circle and absolutely nothing happens, despite the fact that several characters state there may be consequences to taking the high road... there are none.

I kinda agree on the final battle part, but if would've been funny as hell to have a sword duel with the archdemon.
However.......

I had  horrible things happen when I recruited Shale and tried to save the orphanage.

[Skaden]

It's a tough choice, but to me it's definately KOTOR in the end. The rich, epic storyline coupled with the unforgettable characters like HK-47 makes the game stand in a masterpiece category on its own. Another thing that was great about KOTOR was that it was distinctly Star Wars but had its own style and didnt rely on the movies. It allowed you to explore fantastic new worlds and had some of the most shocking twists ever. It proves just how unlimited the potential of Star Wars is. Don't get me wrong, DAO was a great game, but it has too many traits of the real world and relies too much on the "classic" limited Dungeons and Dragons theme without creating a completely unique feeling of its own. Both have great potential and I definately look forward to seeing more of each in the future!

Modifié par Skaden, 13 mars 2010 - 10:19 .

[AlanC9]

akkaze wrote...

DAO is a much more recent game (obviously), and is a different style of game (less tactical in terms of combat engine).

(snip)

Well, I generally enjoy tactical combat more than action-adventure style combat; but then DAO never set out to be some sort of P&P rpg clone so that's not really a just criticism.

I'm confused. In what sense is DA:O less tactical? KotOR was just spam Force Wave forever, then lightsaber anything still moving.

And I'm going to have to stick up for Carth. It's not whining when your character is the one asking him to talk about that stuff.

Modifié par AlanC9, 13 mars 2010 - 08:28 .

[Moogliepie]

 DAO has a better overall story, characters, and voice acting, but KOTOR had better gameplay design. The one exception is HK-47, one of the best video game characters of all time.  In KOTOR there were alternate ways of solving quests, if you had the right skills, or wanted to do puzzles, you could bypass battles and still earn good XP. In DAO, you can bypass a few battles through dialog options, but that's not quite the same. For the console version, the KOTOR interface, and ability to queue up multiple actions was great. In DAO, the lack of an action queue really hurts gameplay, especially considering combos. KOTOR had a lot more variety in the quests. You had your straight action quests, your puzzle quests, and your diplomatic dialog quests. You also had side diversions like Pazaak and Swoop Racing. In DAO, there are only a couple very short and very easy puzzle quests, and no diversions. Don't get me wrong, I like DAO a ton, but KOTOR offered a more complete gameplay experience.

[Moogliepie]

Wow, I feel alone here. I can't believe everyone thinks KOTOR had a better story. Ok, yes, the plot twist was one hell of a surprise, but I thought the ending part was a huge letdown and cheesy. The overall story was pretty formulaic, and borrowed too heavily from the source material ( I mean seriously, the "Ebon Hawk"?) I don't think a good story needs a plot twist.It's a gimmick that occasionally works. I think DAO has an advantage in that Bioware created a new fictional world, and it allowed them the freedom to create their own lore. Even compared to Jade Empire and Mass Effect, you have to admit the amount of lore they stacked in the DAO codex, and it really makes you hungry for more adventures across Thedas.

[AlanC9]

It's not quite fair to accuse KotOR of being too heavily influenced by the source; my take is that it's meant to be an outright re-telling of the first trilogy. Whether this strategy works for you or not is another matter.

[MassEffect762]

KOTOR 9/10 imo



DA:O 8/10 imo

[Khayness]

Well KoTOR was a dream coming true for me. I was a HUGE Jedi Knight fan at the time, and I wished for a SW RPG for so long and there it was.

KoTOR is special because it's Star Wars.

DA:O is remarkable because it's pretty much in a unique setting (which had a ton of GOOD influence from other works, but hey, we are all standing on the shoulders of giants here), a world well written that you start to care for it while playing.

[Spinnazie]

KOTOR is one of my favorite games of all time. I didn't know what "Bioware" was until KOTOR, thus it will always have a very special place in my heart.

Then again, I've loved every Bioware game I've played pretty equally.



EDIT: It's probably been mentioned, but KOTOR wins because it introduced the best character in a video game EVER.....HK-47.

Modifié par Spinnazie, 14 mars 2010 - 01:56 .

[TimelessWinter]

I don't know what KOTOR is but Dragon Age is better

[Fair34]

Plotwise KOTOR wins. It's the first and, so far, only game that made my jaw drop with it's plot-twist. Plus there's HK-47. Nuff said. :happy:

Modifié par Fair34, 14 mars 2010 - 03:52 .

[thegreateski]

Recently my Xbox 360 red ringed. I sent it in to have it fixed.



So I bust out my old Xbox and play a few of my old games on there. Primarily, Fable and KoToR.



Fable I finished within a week. Burning down villages and slaughtering hordes of guards never gets old.



As for KoToR?



KoToR can go die.

[Pseron Wyrd]

AlanC9 wrote...
 It's not whining when your character is the one asking him to talk about that stuff.

I'm sorry, this is nonsense. It doesn't matter who starts a conversation. If one of them whines during the conversation, then whining has in fact occurred.

In any case the game forces the player to talk to Carth.

[sedrikhcain]

Fleapants wrote...

KOTOR's plot was filled to the brim with overused cliches and Star Wars is getting stale. I liked Jolee though.

OneBadAssMother wrote...

In my opinion KOTOR's plot is FAAAAAAAAR better then any of the Star Wars movies.

Yeap, I'll give it that, it does outshine whatever Lucas came up with.

DA is set in a rather typical fantasy world with too many real world references for me to really like it (the setting). There are some refreshing exceptions, of course.
The story itself is great and the characters are all very well fleshed out.

Oh give me a break. I loved, loved, LOVED KOTOR but if Lucas hadn't come up with "I am your father", Revan never would've happened. They don't call it "an 'I am your father" moment for nothing.

The way some fans of the expanded Star Wars universe have made it the fashion to bash Lucas is becoming very tiresome. He's made a LOT of missteps over the years but people are starting now to try to tear down his masterworks solely because their existence doesn't fit neatly into the now-cool "Lucas is a tool" meme.