220 réponses à ce sujet

[1337haxwtg]

Is there any lore that says Cerberus didn't already have an army before the events of ME2, even if it wasn't really shown?

I have only played the games and I bought the books recently but I am on the first one still.

[o Ventus]

1337haxwtg wrote...

Is there any lore that says Cerberus didn't already have an army before the events of ME2, even if it wasn't really shown?

I have only played the games and I bought the books recently but I am on the first one still.

Before ME3, Cerberus had less than 150 operatives at any one time. Hell, ME1 alone should have crippled them by a substantial amount.

[thesnake777]

1337haxwtg wrote...

It has been a long time since I played that as well. But look at how often the "turns to the dark side and maybe turns back" theme plays out in Star Wars as a whole. They tell that story over and over, and it almost never makes sense. Anakin's turning was even poorly played out if you consider all of the details.

"I'll do anything to protect whats-her-face!"

*force chokes whats-her-face*

I can't take Star Wars seriously as sci-fi, or even a story, now that I'm all grown up. The old republic games (idk about the mmo) are still one of my all-time favorite games, and the story was a major part of that.

hahahahah Man I really enjoyed the force choke joke. I stick with the sith empire. We dont have these problems. The Jedi are Idoits...

I mean seriously? what do you mean he can come back? hes good now? he just slaughtered those kids? he bathed in their blood!!! then he says "I have seen the light" and hes good again..just like that...blood still dripping down his face? WTF

[1337haxwtg]

One final point, Mass Effect fans are upset because Mass Effect's entire point is quality storytelling that abides by established rules, yet the end throws it all out the window.

Nobody cares about silly plot holes in Star Wars, because Star Wars has always been a giant plot hole, presumably cut out of the story with a lightsaber.

[Fireblader70]

o Ventus wrote...

And if Wrex survives Virmire, shocker, he agrees with Shepard that curing the genophage isn't the right way to go about things. It's called character development. Except here it's character assassination. Please, learn basic literature.

Thought I'd just jump in here for a sec...

I thought Wrex agreed that the base had to be destroyed because Saren was a douche. He still wants a cure for the genophage, just not like that.

[o Ventus]

Fireblader70 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

And if Wrex survives Virmire, shocker, he agrees with Shepard that curing the genophage isn't the right way to go about things. It's called character development. Except here it's character assassination. Please, learn basic literature.

Thought I'd just jump in here for a sec...

I thought Wrex agreed that the base had to be destroyed because Saren was a douche. He still wants a cure for the genophage, just not like that.

That's part of his reasoning, but not all of it.

I know, I played ME1 twice in less than 4 days.

[txgoldrush]

o Ventus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Oh wait, nevermind that Wrex completely admonishes Wreav and his philosphy, and nevermind that he is a complete foil of him. Nevermind that Wrex seeks to unite the clans. If you want to call Wrex a zealot...compare him to Wreav....you will find that he is no zealot. Nevermind he actually gives a salarian credit for curing the genophage. Yeah, some zealot.

And what makes you think they can't build back up using Reaper tech? Which they were using to build an army. Nevermind that extensive knowledge TIM has in both ME2 and ME3.

Nevermind the fact that they admit that they are taking ashot at building a device they do not know what it does...its not like they don't admit it.

Wrex and Wreav being foils has nothing to do with anything. Congratulations on the empty point. In ME1+2 he's starkly against curing the genophage, but from his appearance in ME3, all the way to the end, he's "CURE CURE CURE CURE".

Also, Reaper tech can't buy Cerberus the couple thousand sets of armor and weapons their troops need. Seriously, Reaper tech isn't the philosopher's stone.

The Alliance admitting to building the Crucible doesn't negate how f**king stupid it is.

Oh wait, didn't Wrex pull a gun on Shepard in ME1 because he was trying to destroy the base that is working on curing his people? Doesn;t seem like he is against curing the genophage there.

And how can you prove that they cannot afford armor and weapons for thousands? What f it doesn;t cost as much as you think?

And yet beating the Reapers conventionally is even more stupid.

And if Wrex survives Virmire, shocker, he agrees with Shepard that curing the genophage isn't the right way to go about things. It's called character development. Except here it's character assassination. Please, learn basic literature.

How far into your ass did you reach for that excuse? Buying thousands of sets of armor, and thousands of guns (Or parts for the guns, if Cerberus is manufacturing them on their own) will cost them a LOT of money. buying thousands of ANYTHING will cost them a LOT of money. Seeing how the effectively went bankrupt at the end of Retribution, they should barely be keeping together, if not disbanded.

Yeah, conventional victory is so stupid. That's why we're both told and shown numerous examples of it.

WRONG. Wrex is convinced that Saren's plan for the Krogan was not in his people's welfare, that they would be used and not be free. Thats why he lowers his gun, not because he realizes that curing the Genophage was wrong, but because Saren doesn't really have his people's future in heart. Try again.

And what makes you think they can't rebound? Nevermind them salvaging tech no one has seen before regardless of the base's fate.

No, conventional victory over a foe that overpowering IS STUPID. Hell, look at ID4, they had to use a virus to win, and that movie was pretty stupid. It however wasn't stupid enough to let the humans win by conventional means alone.

Modifié par txgoldrush, 23 juin 2012 - 09:52 .

[thesnake777]

o Ventus wrote...


That's part of his reasoning, but not all of it.

I know, I played ME1 twice in less than 4 days.

Congrats on those speed runs.
If I remeber correctly he says the krogan people are not ready for a cure or something along those lines?

[Cadeym]

txgoldrush wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

You keep using the phrase "plot hole", but I don't think you know what it means.

No, ME3 ending bashers do not know what it means...hell the ending is so ambigious plot holes really can't even be proven.

However having Bastila completely step out of her character in KOTOR is a plot hole.

1) Why are the mass relay explotions different than the one we see in arrival. An explotion within the ball of energy that is released from the first relay is clearly visible.

2) None of the solutions solve the Catalyst's problem. An organic brain isn't capable of processing information or evolving to the point where it could compete with the advancements that an Ai would in a technological singularity. Without an explanation for why it would suddenly be possible to alter an organic brain in such a drastic way this remain a plot hole.

3) Sloppy cinematic work or a plot hole?. There is no logical reason for why the elevator would activate (Shepard doesn't manage to push any buttons). The Catalyst isn't hinted at having been offline or incapable of operating the citadel systems and since there is no logical reason for why the elevator would activate otherwise, I am left to question why Sovereign even had to make the attempt in the first game.

4) The Catalyst claims that the citadel is both his home and a part of him.... My brain is a part of my body... the Sun if a part of our solar system.. the solar system is a part of the milkey way.... the Catalyst is a program which probably has a processing unit somewhere in the citadel. How can his existance extend beyond the citadel. Just because something may be located within an electromagnetic field doesn't mean that the object in question is a part of that field.

5) How is TIM capable of controlling the motor functions of both Shepard and Anderson without first indoctrinating them. Without an explanation for how this is possible then it remain a plot hole since it is stated to only be possible after the subject is fully indoctrinated.

6) How did Anderson get from the walkway that is located to the right over to the one that Shepard walks on without us noticing him right after opening the door.


Too many inconsistant, illogical and unexplained things happen in such a short timespan that I rapidly lost my suspension of disbelief... it is much like waking up halfway through a convincing and almost realistic dream which you only realise doesn't make any sense once you wake up.

[1337haxwtg]

As I recall, Wrex decided to try to unite his people and finish helping Shepard before seeking the cure. Didn't he make significant strides to unite his people in and around ME2?

[Fireblader70]

o Ventus wrote...

Fireblader70 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

And if Wrex survives Virmire, shocker, he agrees with Shepard that curing the genophage isn't the right way to go about things. It's called character development. Except here it's character assassination. Please, learn basic literature.

Thought I'd just jump in here for a sec...

I thought Wrex agreed that the base had to be destroyed because Saren was a douche. He still wants a cure for the genophage, just not like that.

That's part of his reasoning, but not all of it.

I know, I played ME1 twice in less than 4 days.

And I just watched it on YouTube, as well as using my experience from a couple of days ago.

Wrex says he doesn't like it, but he doesn't want the Krogan to be slaves to Saren. The base must be destroyed, even though it has the cure for the genophage. It is necessary. He still wants it cured, but he can put that aside in order to defeat Saren.

[The Not So Illusive Man]

-

Modifié par The Not So Illusive Man, 23 juin 2012 - 09:56 .

[o Ventus]

txgoldrush wrote...

WRONG. Wrex is convinced that Saren's plan for the Krogan was not in his people's welfare, that they would be used and not be free. Thats why he lowers his gun, not because he realizes that curing the Genophage was wrong, but because Saren doesn't really have his people's future in heart. Try again.

And what makes you think they can't rebound? Nevermind them salvaging tech no one has seen before regardless of the base's fate.

No, conventional victory over a foe that overpowering IS STUPID. Hell, look at ID4, they had to use a virus to win, and that movie was pretty stupid. It however wasn't stupid enough to let the humans win by conventional means alone.

Read my above post.

They shouldn't rebound THAT drastically, THAT fast. Between Shepard murdering them in ME1 and going all but bankrupt in Retribution, the notion that they can amass an army large and powerful enough to take control of the Citadel is incredibly stupid. Never mind that if you destroy the Collector Base, it takes them MONTHS to scavenge and rebuild the human Reaper. Read the EU material and stop being an idiot.

I don't know what the hell "ID4" is.

Modifié par o Ventus, 23 juin 2012 - 09:55 .

[o Ventus]

Fireblader70 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Fireblader70 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

And if Wrex survives Virmire, shocker, he agrees with Shepard that curing the genophage isn't the right way to go about things. It's called character development. Except here it's character assassination. Please, learn basic literature.

Thought I'd just jump in here for a sec...

I thought Wrex agreed that the base had to be destroyed because Saren was a douche. He still wants a cure for the genophage, just not like that.

That's part of his reasoning, but not all of it.

I know, I played ME1 twice in less than 4 days.

And I just watched it on YouTube, as well as using my experience from a couple of days ago.

Wrex says he doesn't like it, but he doesn't want the Krogan to be slaves to Saren. The base must be destroyed, even though it has the cure for the genophage. It is necessary. He still wants it cured, but he can put that aside in order to defeat Saren.

I never said he didn't want a cure. I'm saying that prior to ME3, it was never his #1 priority (excluding the Virmire confrontation).

[Fireblader70]

o Ventus wrote...

Fireblader70 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Fireblader70 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

And if Wrex survives Virmire, shocker, he agrees with Shepard that curing the genophage isn't the right way to go about things. It's called character development. Except here it's character assassination. Please, learn basic literature.

Thought I'd just jump in here for a sec...

I thought Wrex agreed that the base had to be destroyed because Saren was a douche. He still wants a cure for the genophage, just not like that.

That's part of his reasoning, but not all of it.

I know, I played ME1 twice in less than 4 days.

And I just watched it on YouTube, as well as using my experience from a couple of days ago.

Wrex says he doesn't like it, but he doesn't want the Krogan to be slaves to Saren. The base must be destroyed, even though it has the cure for the genophage. It is necessary. He still wants it cured, but he can put that aside in order to defeat Saren.

I never said he didn't want a cure. I'm saying that prior to ME3, it was never his #1 priority (excluding the Virmire confrontation).

That's because he suddenly discovered that there were females immune to the genophage. That got him all excited, you see, and suddenly a cure is within reach.

[o Ventus]

Fireblader70 wrote...

That's because he suddenly discovered that there were females immune to the genophage. That got him all excited, you see, and suddenly a cure is within reach.

Which, in no way, gives him a free pass to all but ignore the Reapers on Tuchanka.

[Fireblader70]

o Ventus wrote...

Fireblader70 wrote...

That's because he suddenly discovered that there were females immune to the genophage. That got him all excited, you see, and suddenly a cure is within reach.

Which, in no way, gives him a free pass to all but ignore the Reapers on Tuchanka.

Eh, believe what you want. I'm just stating what's there.

[o Ventus]

Fireblader70 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Fireblader70 wrote...

That's because he suddenly discovered that there were females immune to the genophage. That got him all excited, you see, and suddenly a cure is within reach.

Which, in no way, gives him a free pass to all but ignore the Reapers on Tuchanka.

Eh, believe what you want. I'm just stating what's there.

Not denying what's there. I just don't like how they handled his priorities.

Then again, I can say that for a number of characters.

[1337haxwtg]

Fireblader70 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Fireblader70 wrote...

That's because he suddenly discovered that there were females immune to the genophage. That got him all excited, you see, and suddenly a cure is within reach.

Which, in no way, gives him a free pass to all but ignore the Reapers on Tuchanka.

Eh, believe what you want. I'm just stating what's there.

But didn't the Reapers primarily ignore Tuchanka at first..?

[o Ventus]

1337haxwtg wrote...

Fireblader70 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Fireblader70 wrote...

That's because he suddenly discovered that there were females immune to the genophage. That got him all excited, you see, and suddenly a cure is within reach.

Which, in no way, gives him a free pass to all but ignore the Reapers on Tuchanka.

Eh, believe what you want. I'm just stating what's there.

But didn't the Reapers primarily ignore Tuchanka at first..?

They were poisoning the Shroud and Lieutenant victus said there was a large Reaper armada near the planet that his platoon had to avoid (something to that effect, anwyay).

I don't think so.

[thesnake777]

1337haxwtg wrote...


But didn't the Reapers primarily ignore Tuchanka at first..?

They were **** footing around...there was Reaper activity but nothing substaintial...

[Fireblader70]

o Ventus wrote...

Fireblader70 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Fireblader70 wrote...

That's because he suddenly discovered that there were females immune to the genophage. That got him all excited, you see, and suddenly a cure is within reach.

Which, in no way, gives him a free pass to all but ignore the Reapers on Tuchanka.

Eh, believe what you want. I'm just stating what's there.

Not denying what's there. I just don't like how they handled his priorities.

Then again, I can say that for a number of characters.

Well, I always thought it was to boost morale. Nothing better than a Krogan who's suddenly free of the problem that has been haunting the species for a long, long time.

But that's just me.

[txgoldrush]

Mouseraider wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

You keep using the phrase "plot hole", but I don't think you know what it means.

No, ME3 ending bashers do not know what it means...hell the ending is so ambigious plot holes really can't even be proven.

However having Bastila completely step out of her character in KOTOR is a plot hole.

1) Why are the mass relay explotions different than the one we see in arrival. An explotion within the ball of energy that is released from the first relay is clearly visible.

2) None of the solutions solve the Catalyst's problem. An organic brain isn't capable of processing information or evolving to the point where it could compete with the advancements that an Ai would in a technological singularity. Without an explanation for why it would suddenly be possible to alter an organic brain in such a drastic way this remain a plot hole.

3) Sloppy cinematic work or a plot hole?. There is no logical reason for why the elevator would activate (Shepard doesn't manage to push any buttons). The Catalyst isn't hinted at having been offline or incapable of operating the citadel systems and since there is no logical reason for why the elevator would activate otherwise, I am left to question why Sovereign even had to make the attempt in the first game.

4) The Catalyst claims that the citadel is both his home and a part of him.... My brain is a part of my body... the Sun if a part of our solar system.. the solar system is a part of the milkey way.... the Catalyst is a program which probably has a processing unit somewhere in the citadel. How can his existance extend beyond the citadel. Just because something may be located within an electromagnetic field doesn't mean that the object in question is a part of that field.

5) How is TIM capable of controlling the motor functions of both Shepard and Anderson without first indoctrinating them. Without an explanation for how this is possible then it remain a plot hole since it is stated to only be possible after the subject is fully indoctrinated.

6) How did Anderson get from the walkway that is located to the right over to the one that Shepard walks on without us noticing him right after opening the door.


Too many inconsistant, illogical and unexplained things happen in such a short timespan that I rapidly lost my suspension of disbelief... it is much like waking up halfway through a convincing and almost realistic dream which you only realise doesn't make any sense once you wake up.

!) Unknown weapon, therefore no plot hole. We don't know how it works so no contradiction can be claimed.

2) No thats a Deus Ex Machina....which really the green ending is the only one that qualifies. A plot hole is a contradiction, not a contrivance.

3) No plot hole here...where is the contradiction. Sloppy direction, yes, but the Catalyst should know that the Crucible is here and that Shep is on the station.

4) And when did he state that his existance extends beyon d the Citadel other than the Reapers he created? He doesn't. And we do not know the level of control or influence he ha son the Reapers.

5) And yet he doesn't fully control their functions. Once again, no plot hole, Shep resists him an dcan even shoot him.

6) When does Anderson get on Shepard's walkway...he doesn't.

Face it, the problem isn't plot holes......you are misdiagnosing the problem here. The problem is the lack of clarity and the lack of explanation fo rmany of the plot points in the ending. Plot holes can only be suggested, not proven.

[o Ventus]

Fireblader70 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Fireblader70 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Fireblader70 wrote...

That's because he suddenly discovered that there were females immune to the genophage. That got him all excited, you see, and suddenly a cure is within reach.

Which, in no way, gives him a free pass to all but ignore the Reapers on Tuchanka.

Eh, believe what you want. I'm just stating what's there.

Not denying what's there. I just don't like how they handled his priorities.

Then again, I can say that for a number of characters.

Well, I always thought it was to boost morale. Nothing better than a Krogan who's suddenly free of the problem that has been haunting the species for a long, long time.

But that's just me.

But if they don't stop the Reapers, they'll never be able to enjoy a life free of the genophage.

That's how I've seen it.

[StElmo]

Leafs43 wrote...

You keep using the phrase "plot hole", but I don't think you know what it means.

this.

Also plot holes are fine provided theya re kept to a minumum and explained with mordin-level technobabbl if a question arises.

Modifié par StElmo, 23 juin 2012 - 10:09 .