169 réponses à ce sujet

[element eater]

dear op,
i dont think you know what your talking about

[Roe Parc Ranger]

 When compared to IW and CoD these guys are brilliant, aside from ths holes in the ending, this is a brilliantly written piece of media. I did enjoy the ending and was attached to my characters, but I can see why people were annoyed it did feel rushed, but it shouldn't ruin what was nearly 300hrs of one of the best stories in a game. 

[BaladasDemnevanni]

I'll still have:

Assassin's Creed 3
Dishonored
Bioshock Infinite
Halo 4
Watch Dogs

That's not to say I'm planning on boycotting Bioware anytime soon, but if it's not like they're the only ones producing games which I enjoy.

[chance52]

taggen86 wrote...

And even though the storywriting and the dialogue in me3 are not perfect it is still far superior to everything in the industry. 

I respect that you like BioWare products over what any other company puts out, but not everyone feels that they are the leaders in the industry. 

When The Witcher 2 came out I thought 'this is the kind of effort I expected Dragon Age 2 to have in it' But on every level from story telling to character development to graphics and game play I found the W2 out performed DA2 by a wide margin. The people at CDPR simply did a better job and while I know that is an opinion, it isnt without objective merit and many people who share my view. Also while I'm not a super fan of Blizzard I am looking forward to the next installment of Starcraft 2 that should be out this year.

My issues with no longer buying BioWare games has less to do with their last 2 games and more to do with EA and Origin. I had Origin for my digital game client before it was called Origin and they were going by EADM and when they switched to Origin I kept hitting 'no' on the update bar and continued on to play my games.  But after a week of that I was no longer able to access the products I had payed for months ago.  I was given 2 choices, update to Origin or quit the client. This is when they first put in their 'We have the right to scan your PC' clause and people were reporting in that it was getting into files like their income tax files. They were even in violation of many German privacy laws and had a lot of legal trouble over there because of these clauses and what Origin was proven to be doing.

Im sorry but the reason I will not be buying from EA anymore, and by extension BioWare, has to do with that company holding my previously purchased goods and preventing me from accessing them until I agreed to their new intrusive ToS that allowed them to scan my PC. Cutting access to old products until you get to inspect my PC left a very bad taste in my mouth.  Its hard to keep giving money to a video game company for their products when they feel entitled to take such actions against their customers.

[legion999]

taggen86 wrote...

legion999 wrote...

Also Bethesda, Valve, CD Projekt, 2K Games and Obsidian. Just off the top of my head some good developers. Better than same game every year Activision and EA.

Finally this quote:"And even though the storywriting and the dialogue in me3 are not perfect it is still far superior to everything in the industry."

....No, OP. Just no.

Yeye for me at least, very few game that have been released in the past months and years come close to the atmosphere, the gameplay and the writing in the ME games. I own both ps3 and xbox and many major games from the likes of bethesda, valve etc, 2k games. That said, i have not played all games and I need to play the witcher 1 and 2.

However maybe we can agree on that the writing and the story in the ME games (even me3) are far better than in bethesdas games such as skyrim at least I never cared about the characters in skyrim or felt anything about what I did in that game

However Bethesda is getting better at telling stories while Bioware are seemingly getting worse.

And yeah overall Bioware are better but like I said Bethesda are catching up. Hell when i comes to lore and background information I would say they have Bioware beaten.

[Hevilath]

taggen86 wrote...

Just a question to all u people that say that u are not going to buy bioware-games in the future. What games are u going to play then? Call of duty 7? Battlefield 4? Assasins creed 6? Even though you may say that everything is EA's fault, the whole industry is actually going downhill rapidly. And as it stands bioware is almost the only developer left that makes interesting AAA titles that are not military shooters or sequels that are similar to the games before. And even though the storywriting and the dialogue in me3 are not perfect it is still far superior to everything in the industry. 

Superior? No. Good? Yes. I will play Portal 3, Battlefield 4, Witcher 3, Walking Dead 1666, Deus Ex. Metal Gear Solid, Splinter Cell etc, etc. The only franchise from Bioware I really liked was ME. Now it's gone and it's time to move on. I'm not negative because ending, but overal quality of game. Maybe it's me, then again, maybe not. 

[Code_R]

Protesting with your wallet is an effective way of standing your ground as a consumer. It drives the industry, and unfortunately means that a lot of the time mediocre trash get's re-hashed every year and experimental games trying new IPs and taking risks get unsold. I'd love to have some faith in games like the ME series again in the future, but I just won't be as exited to part with that money.

[HelpingFR]

voteDC wrote...

I'm not going to boycott Bioware games in the future but they have lost the "buy without question" mentality I used to have about their games.

The advice of Robhuzz about is what I was going to do anyway but they are wise words indeed.

This !

And there is a lot of interesting games coming soon (Dishonored, Darksiders II, Bioshock Infinite, Watch Dogs...) . But I'll be very carefull with EA's products.

[Menethra]

I won't boycott BioWare products as they seem to be making some changes in the right direction over with the SW:TOR team but any games coming out of Edmonton is likely to make me pause for thought rather than pick it up and walk straight over to the counter.

So boycotting = No, Reluctance to buy a product on name alone? Yes.

[inversevideo]

Robhuzz wrote...

Boycotting BioWare isn't necessary at all. The only thing people have to do is stop buying from hype or marketing. DO NOT buy games in the first day or week but wait until honest reviews are out (serious fan reviews) that tell you what the game is REALLY like. If it's not the quality that was promised, don't buy it. This is a very simple concept that, if done by lots of people, stops corporations from rushing games and making false promises. Because right now by the time people find out they have been cheated, millions of people have already pre ordered or bought the game on the first day, the developer and publisher already have the money...

This. I would never boycott Bioware. They have provided me with many a fine story, for which I thank them.
My rage about the conclusion of ME aside, I am sure I will be buying more Bioware games in the future.

However, I will be much more selective.

The days when I would pre-order a Bioware game, soley on the basis that it is by Bioware, or by extension, pre-order any game, are over.

Modifié par inversevideo, 23 juin 2012 - 01:10 .

[Iakus]

Code_R wrote...

Protesting with your wallet is an effective way of standing your ground as a consumer. It drives the industry, and unfortunately means that a lot of the time mediocre trash get's re-hashed every year and experimental games trying new IPs and taking risks get unsold. I'd love to have some faith in games like the ME series again in the future, but I just won't be as exited to part with that money.

This.

If I stop buying Bioware products it's because Bioware products are no longer enjoyable to me.  And if no other company is available to fill the gap they leave in pursuit of other audiences, then I'll just have to find a new hobby.  I'm not going to just throw good money after bad.

I haven't decided yet what I'm going to do about future Bioware products yet.  But unless EC really knocks it out of the park (and by all indications, it wo't) my guture as a Bioware customer is very much in doubt.  

[Blavak]

Want innovative games? Try Kickstarter/Indie scene.

And yes, for 90% I wont buy more games from BioWare (now playing ME2 so only thing I buy for sure will be LofSB, Overlord, Stolen Memory and Arrival). DA:Origins was only playable for me from DA series (DA2 was pure fail), WO is not for me, WoH is boring and only game I would buy is ME4 in case they make it GOOD (not as "buy DLC to get there, get DLC to intro, pass to SP campaign...) with ending included in main game, not as DLC. But otherwise I wont spend penny at BW games.

Modifié par Blavak, 23 juin 2012 - 01:50 .

[emp6]

taggen86 wrote...

Just a question to all u people that say that u are not going to buy bioware-games in the future. What games are u going to play then? Call of duty 7? Battlefield 4? Assasins creed 6? Even though you may say that everything is EA's fault, the whole industry is actually going downhill rapidly. And as it stands bioware is almost the only developer left that makes interesting AAA titles that are not military shooters or sequels that are similar to the games before. And even though the storywriting and the dialogue in me3 are not perfect it is still far superior to everything in the industry. 

How old are you mate? Ever heard of Eidos (esp. Montreal), Rockstar (resp. Remedy) or Bethesda? Or the upcoming CD Project? Or Konami?

Modifié par emp6, 23 juin 2012 - 02:09 .

[Armass81]

Id suggest they try ME's grandfather, Star Control 2, or as its know by now "The Ur-Quan Masters", if they havent already. Its freeware and tough the graphics are dated, the whole game is an excellent sci-fi adventure with less plot holes and more original aliens than those in ME. And the ending is great. You can even get alternative great precursors music remixes for the game.

I heard the original makers are also planning a sequel, I truly hope they deliver at some point. The game is too good to not have a decent sequel. And Star Control 3 is not it, original writers Fred Ford and Paul Reiche 3rd had nothing to do with it, and it shows.

Modifié par Armass81, 23 juin 2012 - 02:34 .

[xPandaHunterx]

Dawnguard.

Dawnguard is what I will be playing instead.

[kiyomizu]

taggen86 wrote...

Just a question to all u people that say that u are not going to buy bioware-games in the future. What games are u going to play then? Call of duty 7? Battlefield 4? Assasins creed 6? Even though you may say that everything is EA's fault, the whole industry is actually going downhill rapidly. And as it stands bioware is almost the only developer left that makes interesting AAA titles that are not military shooters or sequels that are similar to the games before. And even though the storywriting and the dialogue in me3 are not perfect it is still far superior to everything in the industry. 

I would presume they will play the Witcher series and Skyrim DLC just off the top of my head.  I personally am not boycotting Bioware but I will never buy another title from them until I have seen multiple fan reviews over the course of a month or two to confirm it is worth purchasing.

[taggen86]

[/quote]
How old are you mate? Ever heard of Eidos (esp. Montreal), Rockstar (resp. Remedy) or Bethesda? Or the upcoming CD Project? Or Konami?[/quote]

Emp6, I was born in the 80s and have been playing since the snes days. I own games from almost all the developers you list (deus ex, RDR, alan wake, skyrim, MGS) and my opinions is that almost all these games have worse story/writing than the ME games.Heck, most of the writing in MGS4 and alan wake are actually even worse than the ME3 ending. My argument is that bioware schould be compared to their competitors, and that they are still better than them in many regards. Especially when it comes to telling a story

Modifié par taggen86, 23 juin 2012 - 02:54 .

[Blueprotoss]

Controllerfreak wrote...

because of rising consumer expectations it makes it more difficult for games to turn a profit compared to how much they cost, games cost easily 40-70 mil for the most basic hardcore game. in order to be able to mitigate this risk publishers need to stick to what they know sells.

if you want this to change, buy more games, and buy them new.

Sadly this is the truth especially with the rapid growth of entitlement from minority groups like this year had problems wiith Dark Souls, Diablo 3, Street Fighter x Tekken, Zelda : Skyward Sword, Operation Raccoon City, and ME3 as a few examples.

LostHH wrote...

For me it's mostly EA, after Westwood and Bioware I was holding out for Dead Space 3 and that went to pot. So I cannot be bothered to invest anymore money into mediocrity because they want "a broader audience" to make "5 million +" sales.

The used bin sounds interesting and frankly there are plenty more games out there I need to start lol

I'm not an EA fan but this is happening with the Gaming Industry as a whole with or without EA, which means you don't need to create a matyr to make things a lot worse.

Robhuzz wrote...

Boycotting BioWare isn't necessary at all. The only thing people have to do is stop buying from hype or marketing. DO NOT buy games in the first day or week but wait until honest reviews are out (serious fan reviews) that tell you what the game is REALLY like. If it's not the quality that was promised, don't buy it. This is a very simple concept that, if done by lots of people, stops corporations from rushing games and making false promises. Because right now by the time people find out they have been cheated, millions of people have already pre ordered or bought the game on the first day, the developer and publisher already have the money...

This is a problem especially when quality, hype, and simple concepts vary from person to person.  Either this sounds like a boycott whether its to wait and see or don't listen to any marketing. 

Hvlukas wrote...

I've never boycotted any company unless they were using child labour, illegal components or caused deaths.

I won't boycott Bioware ever. But like always, I'll buy it if it's good. I mean - is there really any other way to be a consumer? Why buy crap? Just buy the things that are good, at to hell with WHO made it.

Thats a good policy and I do the same as buy the games that I'll like. 

kiyomizu wrote...

I would presume they will play the Witcher series and Skyrim DLC just off the top of my head.  I personally am not boycotting Bioware but I will never buy another title from them until I have seen multiple fan reviews over the course of a month or two to confirm it is worth purchasing.

Fan reviews is one of the good examples of biased reviews since they have a set of pros that can't be broken based on the previous game.  Hell most of the RE "fans" won't like any of the new games until the series goes back to the gameplay that RE1 - Veronica had. Another example is the race specific Single player campaigns that Stracraft 2 is doing.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 23 juin 2012 - 03:17 .

[Armymedic75]

First of all let me say im a huge Mass Effect fan, however I feel betrayed by BW that being said I would have to evaluate on a case by case basis on whether I will purchase any more of their products. However I believe the major downfall as is the same with many other games is EA. Do I hope the EC will change my mind? Sure why not. However I still seriously doubt they can convince me that they are able to sufficiently explain away all the plot holes in the 3rd installment of the game. I will reserve final judgement till I see it, however good thing it is free because I sure as heck wouldnt pay for it.

Not once has BW ever apologized to the fans. Their stance has always been this is "our" artistic vision. We think the fans are being unreasonable but we will meet you halfway even though we are right and you are wrong. How well this EC is received could possibly dictate the future of Bioware. Their idea seems to be is if they were to accomodate the fans call for a new ending that it would somehow set an unsettling precedent for the entire gaming industry. This is not the case I mean after all their was a huge outcry to Bethesda over the ending of Fallout 3, Bethesda's response, they CHANGED it.

[BlueStorm83]

--- I'm not "boycotting" them because of the issues with Mass Effect 3 (Mandatory Multiplayer for best ending, endings seeming to disregard my playstyle and achievements, final conversation having no option to reply the way my Shepard always replied, Javik being on the disc but also a paid unlock, BioWare's insulting reply that I just wasn't smart enough to understand art when I said that the ending was broken;) rather, the problems have made me lose confidence that BioWare still makes things that I like. I used to see the BioWare logo and my brain went into Auto-Purchase mode. Ever since the various controversies and problems, which admittedly even began with the NPC at the camp in Dragon Age Origins, who was included on the disc, who was nothing but a "buy my DLC" advertisement character, I've become more and more wary of that Auto-Purchase mentality. It's not so much BioWare's game making ability, or even their WRITING ability (99.5% of Mass Effect 3 was the most well written, satisfying, engaging thing I've ever witnessed,) but rather their business practices that are making me this wary.

I do not have an infinite supply of money. If I did, I would BUY BioWare, and tell them "Forget trying to make microtransactions and monetize every aspect of the game. Make a game, if it's well written, high quality, and doesn't have any tremendous holes in it, I'll give you all seventeen bazillion dollars." Other than their frankly standard, predictable, and even prescribed PR response to these problems, they've always been a very cool bunch of people. But again, my cash flow is not infinite, and if I am not sure that an experience will live up to my expectations, then I have to wait until others I know have beaten the game and I can get a frank and untainted review from a friend, who has similar ideas as I do.

I can't trust video game review sites or magazines, or even Television shows to do this. Here's why:

Let's say I'm watching a review program, called "V-Games." V-games reviews Mass Effect 3. I watch their review: they give it a 5 out of 5. Even a 4 out of 5, we'll say. They say that the multiplayer is good but can get a little repetitive. They say that the conversations, while still well written and engaging, are streamlined. They say that the single player is one of the finest RPG experiences to date. They say that the ending is intense, satisfying, and will leave everyone in awe. Then they go to commercial. What's the commercial for? The commercial is for Mass Effect 3. Meaning that EA's marketing division has paid V-Games a substantial sum of money for that 45 second long commercial. This translates to V-games employees drawing a profit from EA. EA is, in effect, paying V-games' salary. And when I then get Mass Effect 3, and the part about the ending turns out to be blatantly false, and there was no mention of the Multiplayer being needed for the best ending, and there was also no mention about just how integrated into the story From Ashes was, I make the very understandable connection that this show, which was BLATANTLY my attempt to call out X-play on their review, can no longer be trusted for objectivity. Shortly after this, Adam Sessler leaves G4. A connection? Probably not. Possibly? Also probably not.

My overarching, meandering, and simple point: I buy what I am sure to enjoy. I'm not sure I'll enjoy BioWare games anymore. Does this mean I'll NEVER buy a game from them again? No. Does it mean I'll never pre-order a collector's edition again? Yeah, because I'll wait for someone I trust to beat it first, so I can be sure I won't be disappointed again. And that's my Perogative.

[fainmaca]

I am not boycotting Bioware per se. I feel that that is ultimately a self-destructive tactic. however, I refuse to buy any games Bioware produces from now on until they prove that they are not going to make the same design choices they made with ME3. I will continue to buy and play older Bioware games. For example, I just bought Jade Empire, and I am currently hooked on it.

I want Bioware to get the message that i won't tolerate the lowering of standards they seem to be pushing. They should not compromise their amazing abilities to make a quick buck, and people like me will only pay for games that provide a truly meaningful experience, like Jade Empire, Knights of the Old Republic, and the first two Mass Effect games.

I have seen what Bioware is capable of, and I won't lower the standards they've encouraged me to set for them. You don't expect a gold medalist to run half-heartedly, you don't expect an award winning novelist to publish an error-filled text, and you don't expect Bioware to provide pi-ss-poor storytelling.

[emp6]

taggen86 wrote...
Born in the 80s and have been playing since the snes days. I own games from almost all the developers you list (deus ex, RDR, alan wake, skyrim, MGS) and my opinions is that almost all these games have worse story/writing than the ME games.Heck, most of the writing in MGS4 and alan wake are actually even worse than the ME3 ending. My argument is that is that bioware schould be compared to their competitors, and that they are still betterthan them in many regards

L.A. Noire was shown on the TriBeCa Film Festival because of the critical acclaim of it's storytelling. As the first videogame ever. Standing ovations. I was there. It's also BAFTA awarded.

GTA IV was highly acclaimed for the thight, pressuring story, multilayered critisism and overall detail.

Deus Ex is one of the most important RPGs ever written. Highly acclaimed for it's layered storyline.

Max Payne started the first serious debate in non-game-oriented magazines and newspapers, discussing if video games are art or not. The game was also highly acclaimed for its story and is BAFTA awarded.

TES Oblivion is widely considered to be the best RPG up to date.

The list goes on and on and on. BioWare is one of the few really good developers no doubt. But they are not superior. And if they continue making games like ME3 no one will miss them in a few years. And saying that there are no other games to play besides BioWare stuff is just fanboyish. Open your eyes.

I respect your love for ME but you definetly overstimate it. 1 & 2 are really good games, even when srewed the story a bit. That's why I like the ME universe. But ME3 is just ridiculous on full scale not just the endings.

Modifié par emp6, 23 juin 2012 - 03:28 .

[animadpig]

taggen86 wrote...

Just a question to all u people that say that u are not going to buy bioware-games in the future. What games are u going to play then? Call of duty 7? Battlefield 4? Assasins creed 6? Even though you may say that everything is EA's fault, the whole industry is actually going downhill rapidly. And as it stands bioware is almost the only developer left that makes interesting AAA titles that are not military shooters or sequels that are similar to the games before. And even though the storywriting and the dialogue in me3 are not perfect it is still far superior to everything in the industry. 

Witcher, and Skyrim etc. There are other company will rise and replace Bioware. As long as there is a company that is willing to produce a complete game before they release the game, I will buy the game from them not a company produced an imcomplete game and defended it by artistic integrity. And, it is a bussiness. If Bioware want to talk about artistic integrity, they should sell the game to art school not the fans.

Modifié par animadpig, 23 juin 2012 - 03:54 .

[FlamingBoy]

Controllerfreak wrote...

because of rising consumer expectations it makes it more difficult for games to turn a profit compared to how much they cost, games cost easily 40-70 mil for the most basic hardcore game. in order to be able to mitigate this risk publishers need to stick to what they know sells.

if you want this to change, buy more games, and buy them new.

you actually believe that, do you at least have a decent source of the price for a "basic hardcore game". keep in mind costs do not included the gimmicky marketing that so many companies use

[DemGeth]

There's tons of great games out there man

And fanboys ALWAYS find something to latch onto.

So I think they'll be set