My first ever playthrough was as a male human noble and so far it's my favourite (although I wish every origin had someone as interesting and plot related as Jowan) but there are some things about this family I really don't understand.
1) Is Highever = Castle Cousland? If so, there seems to be a bit of a divide since Inora (who my character always seem to fall into bed with) seems to say that your family is among the nicest of all the nobles in regards to elves being more equal than most in regards other alienages. This contrasts to the family in the City Elf origin that was originally going to move to Highever but didn't due to the rumour that the noble family is amongst the worst in regards to human/elf relations.
2) The origin seems so short! Just my personal gripe, but it seems to be the shortest of all the origins, I literally kill some rats and talk to my mom and brother and that's about it (stopping for a dalliance with either the attractive elf or another 'lesser' noble). And then try to escape.
3) Caste Cousland itself. For the home for a Teryn it seems to be woefully underequipped and poorly maintained. A vast difference to the fortress that is apparently the home to Arl Urien (of Amaranthine?).
4) What exactly does a Teryn do in comparison to arl's or bann's? Surely a Teryn oversee's taxation for example on behalf of his king and country? If so, wouldn't that make Teryn's pretty rich? I can understand that Arl Howe (or is that Teryn Howe by the events of the game even if not actually titled as such) Castle Cousland didn't really look well off, but that's probably partly because you don't see beyond the castle itself.
5) If Teryn's are high nobility, wouldn't that make most nobles more 'affectionate' towards Loghain, even though he was an utter bastard? I am thinking especially of Templar Ser Bryant in Lothering who was rather unflattering of him, marking him as just a commoner... but he isn't. Thereotically, you surely wouldn't want to speak ill of your lord, especially in such dire times?
6) If each Teryn oversee's the north/south of Fereldan (I believe the Cousland's it's said 'controls' the north) then wouldn't that make the arl of amaranthine and denerim itself Cousland's vassals as much as Howe? Since it's reasonable to assume that these are wealthy locations, wouldn't that make the Cousland's by extension much wealthier?
7) Likewise, if that is true wouldn't that make Teryn Loghain much wealthier again because presumably the powerful arl of Redcliffe is his vassal? Surely the wealth generated by this vassal (even before Loghain's dastardly deeds) would not be exhausted with the battle with your character, especially if Loghain had this all premeditated well in advance as was implied (and you didn't really tangle with his troops that much in hindsight).
8) Considering the amount of customisation options available to your character, isn't it highly likely that your character isn't actually the birth son/daughter of Bryce and Eleanor? Wouldn't this be considered a really bad thing since Arl Eamon, if he is any indication of what Fereldan nobility is all about, seems to truly like the idea of bloodlines? While Bryce and Eleanor seem to truly care for their children, would they truly be willing to adopt someone and then even potentially name that child their heir (since it seems that being first born isn't purely enough to guarantee succession).
9) How on earth could King Cailan not personally meet the son/daughter of one of the most powerful families in Fereldan? From what we (think) we know of Fereldan nobility, the kings must 'petition' for the support of his Teryn's and thus his arls and bann's. Surely this must mean that at least coming to his kingship, Cailan (even if Anora was technically running the show) would of not only met Bryce and Eleanor, but Fergus and your PC as well. Surely your character couldn't be rolling in the hay with some miscellaneous servant every time he decided to show up. Even by going out on the limb and saying that yes, your character had managed to be making love or otherwise being indisposed, surely they would of met at other state functions or even Tournaments (since Cailan surely would compete, or at least preside over such things)
Anyway, that's all the things I am unsure about, what do you guys think/can offer explanations for?
Things I don't get about the Couslands and their place in Fereldan...
Débuté par
Arijharn
, déc. 14 2009 01:50
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#2
Posté 14 décembre 2009 - 01:58
coagmanoo
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I know about number 5
Loghain has no noble blood, the only reason he got anywhere is because he was in the right place at the right time as a child to save Cailan somewhere (or something like that) and was raised to nobility for his heroism in the war against Orlais.
Loghain has no noble blood, the only reason he got anywhere is because he was in the right place at the right time as a child to save Cailan somewhere (or something like that) and was raised to nobility for his heroism in the war against Orlais.
#3
Posté 14 décembre 2009 - 02:04
Nobody Important
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1) Castle Cousland is in Highever.
2) Yeah its kind of short.
3) I was wondering this as well it seems really small compared to some of the other nobles castles.
4) I don't know all I know is the Couslands are 2nd in power right after the royal family. The royal family themselves are Teryns I believe but take the title of King or Queen since they are the first Teryn family.
5) He rose up from being a commoner which pissed off a lot of people.
6) Maybe the couslands don't like high taxes?
7) Loghain doesn't care about money. He just cares about Fereldan and its freedom from Orlais and nothing else.
8) I am assuming you are talking about making a black human noble and the rest of the family is white. I think they just added that option or people wouldn't complain.
9) Fergus is the heir you have probably never been to a landsmeet before.
2) Yeah its kind of short.
3) I was wondering this as well it seems really small compared to some of the other nobles castles.
4) I don't know all I know is the Couslands are 2nd in power right after the royal family. The royal family themselves are Teryns I believe but take the title of King or Queen since they are the first Teryn family.
5) He rose up from being a commoner which pissed off a lot of people.
6) Maybe the couslands don't like high taxes?
7) Loghain doesn't care about money. He just cares about Fereldan and its freedom from Orlais and nothing else.
8) I am assuming you are talking about making a black human noble and the rest of the family is white. I think they just added that option or people wouldn't complain.
9) Fergus is the heir you have probably never been to a landsmeet before.
Modifié par Nobody Important, 14 décembre 2009 - 11:16 .
#4
Posté 14 décembre 2009 - 02:08
thegreateski
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1. Castle Cousland is IN Highever.
2. Yes, it is the shortest.
3. Most of the soldiers are prepareing to march south to Ostagar. As for badly maintained. . .why should be maintained? Who would attack them?
4. Banns and Arls pledge their alligence to Teryns. They represent them.
5. Being in a place of importance does not mean that people still don't hate you. problem with Loghain is the fact that he was once a commoner. . . but now he's essentially taken over the country. these people are VERY conservative.
6. Arls and banns choose who they follow. I imagine that Deneriem was a follower of the Couslands.
7. See point 6.
8. You are related to them. Reason for customization is that this would be a damn boring game if you had to look only one way.
9. Cailan is not the sharpest knife in the drawer. He's probably met you before and doesn't remember.
2. Yes, it is the shortest.
3. Most of the soldiers are prepareing to march south to Ostagar. As for badly maintained. . .why should be maintained? Who would attack them?
4. Banns and Arls pledge their alligence to Teryns. They represent them.
5. Being in a place of importance does not mean that people still don't hate you. problem with Loghain is the fact that he was once a commoner. . . but now he's essentially taken over the country. these people are VERY conservative.
6. Arls and banns choose who they follow. I imagine that Deneriem was a follower of the Couslands.
7. See point 6.
8. You are related to them. Reason for customization is that this would be a damn boring game if you had to look only one way.
9. Cailan is not the sharpest knife in the drawer. He's probably met you before and doesn't remember.
Modifié par thegreateski, 14 décembre 2009 - 02:08 .
#5
Posté 14 décembre 2009 - 02:09
Arijharn
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Nobody Important wrote...
9) Fergus is the heir you have probably never been to a landsmeet before.
That is likely true (my character at least, had no real interest in landsmeets), but it was remarked upon he was quite good in combat, even at Tournaments. If it is similar to medieval England's Tournament system, this is usually when the 'flower of nobility' come to meet, get very drunk and have a good time trying to knock each other senseless (which reads quite similar to how Fereldan works really). Since Cailan is a bit of a wannabe hero, surely this means they would of met even in an unofficial capacity.
#6
Posté 14 décembre 2009 - 02:17
Axterix
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1. Possibly the poor elf lass is just telling you what you want to hear, goes along with you, because if your family doesn't get what it wants from elves, bad things happen 
Seriously though, not sure if it is or not.
2. Seemed just right to me. Anything added would be rather pointless fluff. Had enough chatting, some options, and some good fighting.
3. Seems okay maintained when you are in it. When it is getting attacked, then yeah, there is a bit of rubble. Wouldn't really expect Howe to have been packing lots of seige engines. Rubble is mostly there to show the place is getting attacked as well as to channel the player, block off some paths.
The majority of the troops have been/are being sent off though, as is mentioned in the origin story.
4. They are noble titles. What does a Duke do compared to a Baron or Earl? It isn't a government position. Most are probably associated with a particular chunk of land.
5. Loghain is born a commoner. As such, higher nobility would likely be snooty about him, consider him a bit of an outsider. He wouldn't know the right salad fork to use, how far exactly to bow to another noble based on the title and the age of the family, or would do something himself instead of letting servants do it, that sort of thing. Commoners, on the other hand, would be more likely to be pro-him. So, no, war hero status aside, I'd expect it to be the opposite.
This is probably part of why he needed Howe. Old noble blood, who knows how to get around in Noble circles.
6. Wealth doesn't necessarily go with title. A family with a particular title might well have fallen on hard times, and been forced to trade away portions of their land or seeing it split into smaller chunks rather that staying solidified under a single offspring. An area that was once profitable might now not be, due to over-harvesting, a drought, war, or just shifting economics. Likewise, the holder of a smaller hold might well have keen business sense and be quite profitable. Or his small hold might hold some skilled craftsmen who are highly in demand for their particular trade, making said noble wealthier than the size of his holdings might indicate.
7. Nope. And, nope, as Loghain is trying to increase the size of the army so he can guard the border and fight the blight, while simultaneously trying to put down a rebellion. And in this, he needs to make up for the troops lost in the battles against the Blight so far, including those he left to die with the King. Quite an ambitious plan. Not funded by just him either, but rather funded by the royal treasury. Who knows what state that is in?
Reasonable to assume there aren't piles of cash laying around in a country that is probably still trying to recover from the nasty revolution to a certain degree and feels the need to maintain a relatively high state of military preparedness.
8. Possibly. Especially if you are dealing with recessive genes and the genes are also recessive in the world of DA. Mine, however, happened to look quite a bit like them, so nope. The story, outside of your character's looks, doesn't touch on this though. So either you are their child or you aren't, it doesn't matter, they treat you as such. At the very least, your mother seems to be your mother and if your father isn't Bryce, well, he seems none the wiser.
9. Each time you would have had an opportunity to meet him, Dog has gotten you into a fair bit of trouble, resulting in you getting grounded and not getting to meet the King. Or maybe you've grown quite a bit since the last time he saw you.
Seriously though, not sure if it is or not.
2. Seemed just right to me. Anything added would be rather pointless fluff. Had enough chatting, some options, and some good fighting.
3. Seems okay maintained when you are in it. When it is getting attacked, then yeah, there is a bit of rubble. Wouldn't really expect Howe to have been packing lots of seige engines. Rubble is mostly there to show the place is getting attacked as well as to channel the player, block off some paths.
The majority of the troops have been/are being sent off though, as is mentioned in the origin story.
4. They are noble titles. What does a Duke do compared to a Baron or Earl? It isn't a government position. Most are probably associated with a particular chunk of land.
5. Loghain is born a commoner. As such, higher nobility would likely be snooty about him, consider him a bit of an outsider. He wouldn't know the right salad fork to use, how far exactly to bow to another noble based on the title and the age of the family, or would do something himself instead of letting servants do it, that sort of thing. Commoners, on the other hand, would be more likely to be pro-him. So, no, war hero status aside, I'd expect it to be the opposite.
This is probably part of why he needed Howe. Old noble blood, who knows how to get around in Noble circles.
6. Wealth doesn't necessarily go with title. A family with a particular title might well have fallen on hard times, and been forced to trade away portions of their land or seeing it split into smaller chunks rather that staying solidified under a single offspring. An area that was once profitable might now not be, due to over-harvesting, a drought, war, or just shifting economics. Likewise, the holder of a smaller hold might well have keen business sense and be quite profitable. Or his small hold might hold some skilled craftsmen who are highly in demand for their particular trade, making said noble wealthier than the size of his holdings might indicate.
7. Nope. And, nope, as Loghain is trying to increase the size of the army so he can guard the border and fight the blight, while simultaneously trying to put down a rebellion. And in this, he needs to make up for the troops lost in the battles against the Blight so far, including those he left to die with the King. Quite an ambitious plan. Not funded by just him either, but rather funded by the royal treasury. Who knows what state that is in?
Reasonable to assume there aren't piles of cash laying around in a country that is probably still trying to recover from the nasty revolution to a certain degree and feels the need to maintain a relatively high state of military preparedness.
8. Possibly. Especially if you are dealing with recessive genes and the genes are also recessive in the world of DA. Mine, however, happened to look quite a bit like them, so nope. The story, outside of your character's looks, doesn't touch on this though. So either you are their child or you aren't, it doesn't matter, they treat you as such. At the very least, your mother seems to be your mother and if your father isn't Bryce, well, he seems none the wiser.
9. Each time you would have had an opportunity to meet him, Dog has gotten you into a fair bit of trouble, resulting in you getting grounded and not getting to meet the King. Or maybe you've grown quite a bit since the last time he saw you.
Modifié par Axterix, 14 décembre 2009 - 02:18 .
#7
Posté 14 décembre 2009 - 02:30
DPSSOC
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Arijharn wrote...
1) Is Highever = Castle Cousland?
I think Highever refers to the fortress which is Castle Cousland as well as the surrounding region (kind of like the Bannorn).
Arijharn wrote...
If so, there seems to be a bit of a divide since Inora (who my character always seem to fall into bed with) seems to say that your family is among the nicest of all the nobles in regards to elves being more equal than most in regards other alienages. This contrasts to the family in the City Elf origin that was originally going to move to Highever but didn't due to the rumour that the noble family is amongst the worst in regards to human/elf relations.
It's a rumor however regardless of how the Couslands may treat their elves the lesser nobels in the area may be somewhat less than stellar.
Arijharn wrote...
4) What exactly does a Teryn do in comparison to arl's or bann's?
If I'm not mistaken the freeholders answer to the arls and banns, the arls and banns answer to the Teryn, and the Teryn's answer to the king. What their specific duties would be I can't fathom though.
Arijharn wrote...
5) If Teryn's are high nobility, wouldn't that make most nobles more 'affectionate' towards Loghain, even though he was an utter bastard? I am thinking especially of Templar Ser Bryant in Lothering who was rather unflattering of him, marking him as just a commoner... but he isn't. Thereotically, you surely wouldn't want to speak ill of your lord, especially in such dire times?
His position means they have to obey him, it doesn't mean they have to like or respect him.
Arijharn wrote...
7) Likewise, if that is true wouldn't that make Teryn Loghain much wealthier again because presumably the powerful arl of Redcliffe is his vassal?
Redcliffe isn't important for it's wealth it's important for it's location.
Arijharn wrote...
9) How on earth could King Cailan not personally meet the son/daughter of one of the most powerful families in Fereldan? From what we (think) we know of Fereldan nobility, the kings must 'petition' for the support of his Teryn's and thus his arls and bann's. Surely this must mean that at least coming to his kingship, Cailan (even if Anora was technically running the show) would of not only met Bryce and Eleanor, but Fergus and your PC as well. Surely your character couldn't be rolling in the hay with some miscellaneous servant every time he decided to show up. Even by going out on the limb and saying that yes, your character had managed to be making love or otherwise being indisposed, surely they would of met at other state functions or even Tournaments (since Cailan surely would compete, or at least preside over such things)
Your character states (or can state) that you've never been outside Highever, as for Cailan visiting, when he petitions the Teryns they come to him. That's one of the purposes of the Landsmeet. So it's not unreasonable that the two of you had never met not to mention while you may be the child of a Teryn you're the younger child and thus less likely to succeed your father.
#8
Posté 14 décembre 2009 - 02:39
Ulicus
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Regarding (1), nothing bad is said about the Couslands in regards to elves, IIRC. The concerns raised are specifically to do with Highever's alienage, which is said to be worse than Denerim's. Such doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the way the Couslands treat their elven servants, or think of elves generally.
It could even be that the Highever alienage is worse off because the Couslands are so widely known to be unprejudiced against elves. Maybe the problems are to do with overcrowding? Maybe the human population resents them more than elsewhere, even if the nobility don't.
Though, that said, I certainly didn't get the impression that Nan treated the elves nicely.
As for (9), yeah, it was a shame (and a little hard to swallow) that Cailan had never met your character before. It's not like it'd have required a hugely different opening to Ostagar, either (one or two lines changed), which makes it doubly frustrating. Not because it's totally implausible, mind you, but more because... well, like, why give us the option of being from a noble family that is "second to royalty" if we so rarely get to feel like it? Still, tis not the end of the world. Though I wouldn't be surprised if Cailan had never really ventured far from Denerim until the Blight hit. He's awfully naive for a 26/27 year old man, after all. (I actually see him as being something of a "realistic" take on Elan from Order of the Stick. Seriously)
It could even be that the Highever alienage is worse off because the Couslands are so widely known to be unprejudiced against elves. Maybe the problems are to do with overcrowding? Maybe the human population resents them more than elsewhere, even if the nobility don't.
Though, that said, I certainly didn't get the impression that Nan treated the elves nicely.
As for (9), yeah, it was a shame (and a little hard to swallow) that Cailan had never met your character before. It's not like it'd have required a hugely different opening to Ostagar, either (one or two lines changed), which makes it doubly frustrating. Not because it's totally implausible, mind you, but more because... well, like, why give us the option of being from a noble family that is "second to royalty" if we so rarely get to feel like it? Still, tis not the end of the world. Though I wouldn't be surprised if Cailan had never really ventured far from Denerim until the Blight hit. He's awfully naive for a 26/27 year old man, after all. (I actually see him as being something of a "realistic" take on Elan from Order of the Stick. Seriously)
Modifié par Ulicus, 14 décembre 2009 - 02:45 .
#9
Posté 14 décembre 2009 - 02:47
Arijharn
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DPSSOC wrote...
Your character states (or can state) that you've never been outside Highever, as for Cailan visiting, when he petitions the Teryns they come to him. That's one of the purposes of the Landsmeet. So it's not unreasonable that the two of you had never met not to mention while you may be the child of a Teryn you're the younger child and thus less likely to succeed your father.
I can understand the Landsmeet as being the official gathering to discuss matters of state, but that surely couldn't preclude the fact that the King can travel amongst his teryn and arl's holdings to privately discuss state matters and gauge support prior to landsmeets. The impression I got was that landsmeets were only called on dire matters, such as invasions, or at semi-frequent times to discuss internal happenings (such as taxation rates), but they wouldn't be the only way of Kings to discuss matters with his 'vassals' (in fact, I think a king who only used the Landsmeet would be a very very poor king). Wasn't king Cailan popular (although Anora moreso)?
#10
Posté 14 décembre 2009 - 02:47
Taleroth
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Teryns don't control the north/south. Not all Arls are under a Teryn.
#11
Posté 14 décembre 2009 - 02:51
cephasjames
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8) I've wondered how this gets explained as well. I really like my avatar (white haired black guy) but he doesn't seem to fit the mold of that origin.
#12
Posté 14 décembre 2009 - 02:58
Vormaerin
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There is an article in the codex that explains most of this stuff , though you may not have clicked on the right book (or bothered to read it if you did).
A Teyrn is a Bann who has gotten sufficiently powerful that other Banns swear allegiance to them. They appointed the first Arls, who are Banns controlling particularly noteworthy fortifications or the like. Teyrn used to be a title any Bann could get by getting powerful enough, but King Calenhad managed to formalize the situation. Now there are only two Teryn (besides the King, who is also technically one). Loghain is one. The eldest Cousland is the other.
The Couslands seized Highever and its title by force when Flemeth killed the existing Bann of Highever centuries ago. The first Lord Cousland had been captain of the castle guard. The slain lord was a cousin of the Howes. The Couslands steadily expanded their lands by war over the last few centuries, mostly at the Howes' expense.
The Teryn don't have any particular tax collecting functions. They are important because other nobles owe them fealty. Arl Eamon, for example, has various knights who serve him. Teyrn Loghain has arls, banns, and knights who are directly loyal to him.
Nobles aren't automatically respected or liked just because they are nobles, quite the opposite in fact. It is maybe a little odd how outspoken people are with strangers, but Ferelden is not a tyranny with strong lese majesty laws. Further, there is a lot of social mobility in Ferelden. Sten comments on it, for example. Orlais is the sort of place that worries about who your father and grandfather were. There's not much evidence that Ferelden is that sort of place, other than Eamon (and not really anyone else) arguing in favor of the royal bloodline.
A Teyrn is a Bann who has gotten sufficiently powerful that other Banns swear allegiance to them. They appointed the first Arls, who are Banns controlling particularly noteworthy fortifications or the like. Teyrn used to be a title any Bann could get by getting powerful enough, but King Calenhad managed to formalize the situation. Now there are only two Teryn (besides the King, who is also technically one). Loghain is one. The eldest Cousland is the other.
The Couslands seized Highever and its title by force when Flemeth killed the existing Bann of Highever centuries ago. The first Lord Cousland had been captain of the castle guard. The slain lord was a cousin of the Howes. The Couslands steadily expanded their lands by war over the last few centuries, mostly at the Howes' expense.
The Teryn don't have any particular tax collecting functions. They are important because other nobles owe them fealty. Arl Eamon, for example, has various knights who serve him. Teyrn Loghain has arls, banns, and knights who are directly loyal to him.
Nobles aren't automatically respected or liked just because they are nobles, quite the opposite in fact. It is maybe a little odd how outspoken people are with strangers, but Ferelden is not a tyranny with strong lese majesty laws. Further, there is a lot of social mobility in Ferelden. Sten comments on it, for example. Orlais is the sort of place that worries about who your father and grandfather were. There's not much evidence that Ferelden is that sort of place, other than Eamon (and not really anyone else) arguing in favor of the royal bloodline.
#13
Posté 14 décembre 2009 - 03:23
LdyShayna
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While the location in the game is called Castle Cousland, the writers have referred to it as Highever Castle when discussing, so I believe both are correct.
#14
Posté 14 décembre 2009 - 04:05
DPSSOC
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Arijharn wrote...
I can understand the Landsmeet as being the official gathering to discuss matters of state, but that surely couldn't preclude the fact that the King can travel amongst his teryn and arl's holdings to privately discuss state matters and gauge support prior to landsmeets.
There's certainly nothing prohibiting that but it seems more likely that the king would invite these people to join him in Denerim rather than go visit. Think about it like this, you work in an office building and your boss wants to talk to you; is he more likely to come to where you work or call/message and tell you to come to his office?
in fact, I think a king who only used the Landsmeet would be a very very poor king
You do remember what Anora said about Cailan's leadership capabilities right?
#15
Posté 14 décembre 2009 - 10:36
Arijharn
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IIRC King Cailan was popular amongst his subjects and with his nobility, but it was common knowledge that it was actually Queen Anora who wore the pants.
#16
Posté 14 décembre 2009 - 12:01
Mnemnosyne
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The title and position of Arl, from my understanding, is granted directly by the King to oversee a fortress of strategic importance. They don't control large amounts of land, presumably only the fortress and the immediate surrounding area. They also owe fealty directly to the King, not to the Teryns. Since Denerim is controlled by an Arl, and it's the King's city, it's under the relatively direct authority of the King, through the Arl of Denerim, who does not owe fealty to any Teyrns.
Teyrns are, essentially, any noble that a sufficient number of Banns have sworn fealty to. As the historian guy mentions, Bann Cousland became a Teyrn when a number of other Banns swore fealty to him a long time ago. There were, apparently, more Teyrns in Ferelden at one time, but after the Orlesian occupation this has been whittled down to two, the Teyrnir of Highever, and the Teyrnir of Gwaren.
Loghain became a Teyrn because King Maric appointed him to the position. This seems to be an unusual thing in Ferelden, presumably only possible because the war with Orlais left a lot of noble families dead and lacking heirs, and therefore the Teyrnir of Gwaren may simply have had no surviving heir whatsoever, enabling Maric to make that appointment.
As to Cailan never meeting the PC, it seems reasonable considering you're the younger daughter/son, and have probably never been to a Landsmeet. Cailan has also only been King for four or five years, and it's somewhat reasonable to assume he has never visited Highever in that time. As far as tournaments go, the PC doesn't seem to be that experienced. Probably young, and have not participated in any national tournaments yet. Since you have never met Jory and he does not immediately recognize you, it's even reasonable to say you haven't attended the tournaments held in Highever, as that's where he won the tournament that Duncan recruited him at.
As to Highever's treatment of elves, their treatment from the Couslands directly does not necessarily mirror the attitudes of the local people and Banns. So it's entirely possible that the Couslands treat elves better than most nobles in Ferelden, while the people of Highever are much less inclined to do so. Another equally plausible explanation is that the information is wrong. The elf girl that mentions that has never been to Highever herself, so it's entirely possible that she is mistaken and picked that up from false rumors.
And finally as to the character customization thing, that's something of a metagame issue. As far as the game is concerned, you are the natural born son/daughter of Bryce and Eleanor Cousland. That you can customize your character to look inappropriate to that doesn't mean anything significant, other than the fact that you're not matching your character to the role you're supposed to be playing, as far as that's concerned.
Teyrns are, essentially, any noble that a sufficient number of Banns have sworn fealty to. As the historian guy mentions, Bann Cousland became a Teyrn when a number of other Banns swore fealty to him a long time ago. There were, apparently, more Teyrns in Ferelden at one time, but after the Orlesian occupation this has been whittled down to two, the Teyrnir of Highever, and the Teyrnir of Gwaren.
Loghain became a Teyrn because King Maric appointed him to the position. This seems to be an unusual thing in Ferelden, presumably only possible because the war with Orlais left a lot of noble families dead and lacking heirs, and therefore the Teyrnir of Gwaren may simply have had no surviving heir whatsoever, enabling Maric to make that appointment.
As to Cailan never meeting the PC, it seems reasonable considering you're the younger daughter/son, and have probably never been to a Landsmeet. Cailan has also only been King for four or five years, and it's somewhat reasonable to assume he has never visited Highever in that time. As far as tournaments go, the PC doesn't seem to be that experienced. Probably young, and have not participated in any national tournaments yet. Since you have never met Jory and he does not immediately recognize you, it's even reasonable to say you haven't attended the tournaments held in Highever, as that's where he won the tournament that Duncan recruited him at.
As to Highever's treatment of elves, their treatment from the Couslands directly does not necessarily mirror the attitudes of the local people and Banns. So it's entirely possible that the Couslands treat elves better than most nobles in Ferelden, while the people of Highever are much less inclined to do so. Another equally plausible explanation is that the information is wrong. The elf girl that mentions that has never been to Highever herself, so it's entirely possible that she is mistaken and picked that up from false rumors.
And finally as to the character customization thing, that's something of a metagame issue. As far as the game is concerned, you are the natural born son/daughter of Bryce and Eleanor Cousland. That you can customize your character to look inappropriate to that doesn't mean anything significant, other than the fact that you're not matching your character to the role you're supposed to be playing, as far as that's concerned.
#17
Posté 14 décembre 2009 - 01:14
robertthebard
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I actually never heard anything to make me think it was common knowledge that she ruled save hearing it from her. Considering the epilogue if you don't marry her, or don't have Alistair do it, that she was a good ruler is really up in the air as far as I'm concerned. I am reminded, when thinking of that epilogue, of a dialog with Wynne in the camp. Anora really could have used to learn from that speech.Arijharn wrote...
IIRC King Cailan was popular amongst his subjects and with his nobility, but it was common knowledge that it was actually Queen Anora who wore the pants.
#18
Posté 14 décembre 2009 - 02:11
Ariella
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Okay, IF Fereldan goes by a basic feudal model
Teyrn = Duke
Arl = Earl
Bann =baron
Banns swear to their Arl, who in turn swears to their Teyrn, who in turn swears to the king. Technically, of course, all nobles owe fealty to the King but through their respective "chains of command" So techincally, Highever covered most of the arls and banns of Northern Fereldan (not including Denerium which is a Teynir in its own right which is the property of the King, thus why an Arl admisters the city) Gwernth is the southen Tenyr and responsible for governance of the south... So Loghain violated his oaths to his own leigemen when he abandoned the south.
Teyrn = Duke
Arl = Earl
Bann =baron
Banns swear to their Arl, who in turn swears to their Teyrn, who in turn swears to the king. Technically, of course, all nobles owe fealty to the King but through their respective "chains of command" So techincally, Highever covered most of the arls and banns of Northern Fereldan (not including Denerium which is a Teynir in its own right which is the property of the King, thus why an Arl admisters the city) Gwernth is the southen Tenyr and responsible for governance of the south... So Loghain violated his oaths to his own leigemen when he abandoned the south.
#19
Posté 14 décembre 2009 - 02:28
Isaantia
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One of the things I don't get about the Human Noble origin is - why don't the Couslands also have a huge estate in Denerim? Surely they must have equal or better digs than Eamon in the capital.
The real question is - if Bann Teagan was an eligible bachelor this whole time - why was my PC not introduced to him before? ;D
The real question is - if Bann Teagan was an eligible bachelor this whole time - why was my PC not introduced to him before? ;D
#20
Posté 14 décembre 2009 - 02:31
mousestalker
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robertthebard wrote...
I actually never heard anything to make me think it was common knowledge that she ruled save hearing it from her. Considering the epilogue if you don't marry her, or don't have Alistair do it, that she was a good ruler is really up in the air as far as I'm concerned. I am reminded, when thinking of that epilogue, of a dialog with Wynne in the camp. Anora really could have used to learn from that speech.Arijharn wrote...
IIRC King Cailan was popular amongst his subjects and with his nobility, but it was common knowledge that it was actually Queen Anora who wore the pants.
Arl Eamon says as much about Anora. At one point he makes it clear that she would make a good queen if only she had some royal blood.
#21
Posté 14 décembre 2009 - 02:53
Thiefy
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You know playing through as a noble pc first go around I got the impression that everyone knew who my girl was. It almost always started off with "You are Bryce Cousland's youngest, are you not?" If they hadn't met me before at some time, how would they know? Of course they can here from other people, but they won't know what I look like, so picking me out from my crowd of companions when I randomly walk up to them is highly unlikely.
Calian also said the same thing before, so I think it's safe to assume that he has met (or had the oppertunity to meet) noble pc at some point in time. That and your mother goes on and on about trying to match you with other nobles so she can have more grandchildren.
And as an FYI, the noble romance option tells you that it's a very common rumour that your pc is generally considered the better pick for succssion of Highever over your brother. This also goes hand in hand with your mother trying to get you to marry, considering if you were to succeed Highever, you'd need to provide heirs.
I don't think there was a noble who *didn't* recognize me. Teagan included. Loghain even mentions recognizing you. I'm surprised Anora doesn't treat you better since she said she was suppsoedly 'close' with my family, especially my mother. But then again we know what kind of snarky little wench she is anyway.
Just another reason to hang her, I suppose.
Calian also said the same thing before, so I think it's safe to assume that he has met (or had the oppertunity to meet) noble pc at some point in time. That and your mother goes on and on about trying to match you with other nobles so she can have more grandchildren.
And as an FYI, the noble romance option tells you that it's a very common rumour that your pc is generally considered the better pick for succssion of Highever over your brother. This also goes hand in hand with your mother trying to get you to marry, considering if you were to succeed Highever, you'd need to provide heirs.
I don't think there was a noble who *didn't* recognize me. Teagan included. Loghain even mentions recognizing you. I'm surprised Anora doesn't treat you better since she said she was suppsoedly 'close' with my family, especially my mother. But then again we know what kind of snarky little wench she is anyway.
Just another reason to hang her, I suppose.
Modifié par Thief-of-Hearts, 14 décembre 2009 - 02:57 .
#22
Posté 14 décembre 2009 - 03:12
DPSSOC
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Thief-of-Hearts wrote...
You know playing through as a noble pc first go around I got the impression that everyone knew who my girl was. It almost always started off with "You are Bryce Cousland's youngest, are you not?" If they hadn't met me before at some time, how would they know?
I got the impression from the game that your character is "supposed" to greatly resemble the other members of the family. When Loghain says, "you look familliar" he's never seen you before so the implication is you have a strong resemblence to either your brother, father, or mother.
Thief-of-Hearts wrote...
And as an FYI, the noble romance option tells you that it's a very common rumour that your pc is generally considered the better pick for succssion of Highever over your brother.
Where is this? I know this is hinted at in the Dwarven Noble Origin but I don't recall hearing it in the Human Noble one. Of course I may have been distracted by the insult of being left behind on administration duty.
Thief-of-Hearts wrote...
This also goes hand in hand with your mother trying to get you to marry, considering if you were to succeed Highever, you'd need to provide heirs.
In medieval europe that's what mothers did, the high rate of infant mortality combined with the high rate of regular mentality meant that families, especially noble families, wanted to produce a lot of children. Since in these societies men were doing most of the work it fell on the mother to play match maker.
Thief-of-Hearts wrote...
I'm surprised Anora doesn't treat you better since she said she was suppsoedly 'close' with my family, especially my mother. But then again we know what kind of snarky little wench she is anyway.
Just another reason to hang her, I suppose.
Wait, wait, wait, you lost me. We're supposed to have a reason to hang her?
#23
Posté 14 décembre 2009 - 03:25
LdyShayna
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Ariella wrote...
Okay, IF Fereldan goes by a basic feudal model
Teyrn = Duke
Arl = Earl
Bann =baron
Banns swear to their Arl, who in turn swears to their Teyrn, who in turn swears to the king. Technically, of course, all nobles owe fealty to the King but through their respective "chains of command" So techincally, Highever covered most of the arls and banns of Northern Fereldan (not including Denerium which is a Teynir in its own right which is the property of the King, thus why an Arl admisters the city) Gwernth is the southen Tenyr and responsible for governance of the south... So Loghain violated his oaths to his own leigemen when he abandoned the south.
In theory, that's their ranks of power, yes. However, Ferelden is a very "flat" social system in this way, comparitively speaking. Arls are generally just very powerful banns, and no banns swear allegiance to them. The king is essentially also the most powerful teyrn, and thus would also have banns and arls who report directly to him as well as the other two teyrns.
Certainly Loghain let down his banns and arls when he abandoned them to the Blight. I agree.
Modifié par LdyShayna, 14 décembre 2009 - 03:31 .
#24
Posté 14 décembre 2009 - 03:30
SarEnyaDor
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I think Ferelden is a bit more Germanic ...they are all the time talking about the old tribes, too. So instead of it being a linear royal chain of command, it's more like a loose confederation of inter-related nobal families of differing degrees of importance.
#25
Posté 14 décembre 2009 - 03:35
Thiefy
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For the sake of arguement, yes, you are supposed to look like your family, but you do not have to because you are allowed detailed facial customization, as well as skin and hair customization. For storyline purposes, you do look like your family even if you physically do not, as other people have posted. The same can be said for any other origin. It's the same reason everyone calls you beautiful or handsome when you can make your PC look like it's been beaten to high hell with an ugly stick and then kicked out shortly afterwards. If you pick the dialouge options Loghain actually says "He never forgets a face." So you can either play it off as you resemble your family greatly that everyone recognizes you, or you have met them personally and they remember you.
I think it's not so farfetch that my PC has met all those nobles. It explains why they recognize me, and goes in cannon with my mother setting up parlors and going to parties, but feeling exasperated that she can't find a decent match for her.
When you meet your mother for the first time you are introduced to her friend, her friend's son, and her servant. You have the option to run back and speak to the son and servant, and possibly have sex with them if that is your fancy. The son will tell you a bit about how popular the Couslands are amoung the people and how most people think you'd be a better heir than Fergus.
I don't suppose I NEED a reason to hang Anora, but the fact that she is backstabbing, coniving, lying, manipulative daddy's girl may or may not help the case.
I think it's not so farfetch that my PC has met all those nobles. It explains why they recognize me, and goes in cannon with my mother setting up parlors and going to parties, but feeling exasperated that she can't find a decent match for her.
When you meet your mother for the first time you are introduced to her friend, her friend's son, and her servant. You have the option to run back and speak to the son and servant, and possibly have sex with them if that is your fancy. The son will tell you a bit about how popular the Couslands are amoung the people and how most people think you'd be a better heir than Fergus.
I don't suppose I NEED a reason to hang Anora, but the fact that she is backstabbing, coniving, lying, manipulative daddy's girl may or may not help the case.
