95 réponses à ce sujet

[wsandista]

There seems to be some doubt if a voiced PC can work for a player-generated PC, so I wanted to get an idea what everyone thought about having a fixed PC since DA3 will absolutely feature a voiced PC.

Personally, I think that a voiced PC only works with a fixed PC.

[Dakota Strider]

This is still Bioware, right?  I want as much player control over my character as possible.  When it stops being my character, then I will find another game to patronize.  A fully voiced protag is a step in the wrong direction, in my opinion.  However, since the devs seem to acknowledge it was not done well in DA2, I will give them another chance to make it work.  I would like to see it work, just have no confidence in it.

[berelinde]

I don't want a fixed PC. I didn't have any trouble making the connection between my Hawke's appearance and his/her voice. I didn't mind a silent PC and I still don't, but I don't find a single voice limiting.

[King Cousland]

Dakota Strider wrote...

This is still Bioware, right?  I want as much player control over my character as possible.  When it stops being my character, then I will find another game to patronize.  A fully voiced protag is a step in the wrong direction, in my opinion.  However, since the devs seem to acknowledge it was not done well in DA2, I will give them another chance to make it work.  I would like to see it work, just have no confidence in it.

This. I won't complain about the VO since it's done and isn't ever going to change now, but I probably would lose a huge amount of interest if there was a fixed PC. As Dakota said, I want as many ways to customise the PC as possible, I want to make them mine. Hawke just didn't feel like they were truly controlling them, maybe it was because of the auto-dialogue (limited though it was), maybe it was because of the lack of choice and being railroaded down one path, heck, maybe it was just because they were called Hawke istead of having an enigmatic epithet like the Warden. But to keep the customisable PC, BioWare needs to work better on the paraphrases, give us more options than the dumbed-down, pre-school level, "Friendly", "Funny", "Angry" ("I want to be a durgon", herp derp), and find fantastic VA. I liked Lady Hawke, MHawke....not so much. 

But most of all, the writing needs to improve. Some of it in DAII (for Hawke) was just juvenile. I seriously couldn't believe that the same minds that wrote Loghain's amazing dialogue at the Landsmeet to give just one example, had descended into lines such as "I'm hungry" when somebody confesses their love for you (seriously BioWare, major facepalm there, pull your socks up).

EDIT: After reading this, I;ve realised it just turned into a rant against the writing of Hawke in DAII. Sorry OP  But I will conclude with this analogy: DA:O was Lord of the Rings and A Song of Ice and Fire. DAII was Twilight and Harry Potter. 
 

Modifié par harkness72, 24 juin 2012 - 12:52 .

[GodWood]

Completely agree.

I vastly prefer a silent protaganist however if Bioware insists on having the PC voiced then they should be fixed.

harkness72 wrote...
I seriously couldn't believe that the same minds that wrote Loghain's amazing dialogue at the Landsmeet to give just one example, had descended into lines such as "I'm hungry" when somebody confesses their love for you (seriously BioWare, major facepalm there, pull your socks up).

That was a joke.

[wsandista]

berelinde wrote...

I don't want a fixed PC.

I don't either. I just believe that is impossible to have a player-generated PC that is voiced.

Modifié par wsandista, 24 juin 2012 - 01:30 .

[yeldarbnotned]

No, I very much like the character creator. However, if it was a fixed female pc whom I liked the appearance of, then maybe.

[Melca36]

wsandista wrote...

There seems to be some doubt if a voiced PC can work for a player-generated PC, so I wanted to get an idea what everyone thought about having a fixed PC since DA3 will absolutely feature a voiced PC.

Personally, I think that a voiced PC only works with a fixed PC.

I want to be able to give my characters their own personal touch...so I would not buy it if I couldnt create my own character.

That said, I did like the default femHawke. I had a love-hate relationship with the default male Hawke because he looks like he's 35-40 depening on the lighting

[PsychoBlonde]

yeldarbnotned wrote...

No, I very much like the character creator.  

Indeed, I'm also hoping *fingers crossed* that they bring back at least a few racial options.  I don't think they'll stick us with a particular appearance on the protagonist unless they decide to make that one-off action game some people wanted.  Or another DLC like Leliana's Song.

I'm kind of hoping they pick up at least some of the method that KotOR 2 tried to do where you get to establish some background details for your character through dialog options.  I'd also like to have Origins (or backgrounds, SOMETHING) again but have them be a bit more generic and not establish your character from birth (no automatic parents, no automatic siblings).

For an example, Origins/backgrounds like these, which could freely apply to ANY class/race combo:

Mercenary (You're a professional warrior/rogue/mage for hire.)
Courtier (You have ties to, say, the Orlesian Imperial court.)
Wilder (You've spent your life living by your strength/wits/magic in the wilderness, among the barbarous peoples of Thedas) 
Outcast (You've been cast out of polite society, to creep around the worst fringes)
Slave (Self-explanatory)

You could potentially get a huge variety out of this, and the thing is, if you have enough periodic times where the PC ADDS TO their "backstory" through conversation, you don't have to have as many CALLBACKS so implementing some of this stuff wouldn't be as complex/difficult/expensive/annoying/whatever.

Just a thought, but this is KIND OF the way I'd prefer they go.  Now, whether or not this constitutes a "fixed" protagonist to some people is beyond me.  I think there'd be more than enough options to please most people.  You could even have a (somewhat sardonic) "born yesterday" or "amnesia" origin where they studiously never reference your character's past in any way, shape, or form, and the only option you get when the backstory convos come up is "I don't want to talk about it" or "none of your business".

I'd find it HILARIOUS, personally, if they also included a "liar" backstory option where they give you a list of ridiculous fabrications you can say any time it would come up.

However, I've said it before and I'll say it again: you cannot "design", "create", or "write" your character in a computer game short of going in and completely re-writing the game mod-style.  No matter how many options the devs give you, they will always be finite.  Some of us are tired of playing the mute unnamed amnesiac fell-out-of-the-sky person, and do not pretend that this character archetype is any more "free" than one where you have some automatic connections to the game world.  Both have things you cannot choose.   Both are limited in different ways. Speaking as if one is limited and the other is not and thus one is the "correct" way to do a game is absurd.

[Vormaerin]

wsandista wrote...

There seems to be some doubt if a voiced PC can work for a player-generated PC, so I wanted to get an idea what everyone thought about having a fixed PC since DA3 will absolutely feature a voiced PC.

Personally, I think that a voiced PC only works with a fixed PC.

Depends on what you mean by a fixed PC.   There's no reason to do a Geralt of Rivia level of definition.

Shepard or Hawke is easily doable, since the flaws with both had (IMHO) to do with the way the story was told in DA2 and ME3, not with the fact that they were voice acted.   If they put the character at the center of the action again instead of as the witness to it, much of the disconnect with the character will fade.   Not for everyone, of course.

Its also possible to include race options for the fixed character if the story is constructed in an appropriate fashion, primarily by narrowing the origin to something common to all the race options.

If they have the resources for multiple voice actor/dialogue tree paths, then a variety of backgrounds are feasible as well.

So, I guess I reject the premise that voice acting means "fixed character".    But then, I don't agree that you ever really have "your" character in text only.  

[PsychoBlonde]

Vormaerin wrote...

So, I guess I reject the premise that voice acting means "fixed character".    But then, I don't agree that you ever really have "your" character in text only.  

Indeed.  4 options is not the same as "I can make up whatever I want" no matter how you slice it.  Especially when large numbers of the "options" are actually "fake" options that lead to the same stuff.

[PsychoBlonde]

Eeek posted that in the wrong thread somehow.  My bad.

Modifié par PsychoBlonde, 24 juin 2012 - 04:51 .

[wsandista]

Vormaerin wrote...

Depends on what you mean by a fixed PC.   There's no reason to do a Geralt of Rivia level of definition.

A PC with fixed personality, motivations and goals. Having a fully fleshed out background isn't necessary.

Shepard or Hawke is easily doable, since the flaws with both had (IMHO) to do with the way the story was told in DA2 and ME3, not with the fact that they were voice acted.   If they put the character at the center of the action again instead of as the witness to it, much of the disconnect with the character will fade.   Not for everyone, of course.

Shepard was done correctly, but Hawke was not(IMO). Shepard always had motivation determined, while Hawke has motivation determined for Act 1, but after that, no motivation is given. ME3 had it's problems, but Shepard lacking motivation(s) was not one of them.

Its also possible to include race options for the fixed character if the story is constructed in an appropriate fashion, primarily by narrowing the origin to something common to all the race options.

If they have the resources for multiple voice actor/dialogue tree paths, then a variety of backgrounds are feasible as well.

No. For a fixed PC, having every origin be an entirely different character would work much better and perform the same function.

So, I guess I reject the premise that voice acting means "fixed character".    But then, I don't agree that you ever really have "your" character in text only.  

With a voiced PC(at least with the dialogue system Bioware will be using) the player will never no exactly what the PC will say. Therefore, the player can't ever really understand what the PC is thinking which is a problem if the PC is supposed to be player-generated. A fixed PC doesn't have that problem, because how the PC thinks is not something the player trys to determine.

Yes it can be my character in text-only(or silentPC). I determine who the PC is and how they think.

[CuriousArtemis]

What is a fixed PC?

I liked Hawke the most because I felt like I really knew who he was. He felt like a real person with a personality I could pin down.

I liked my Wardens but they are harder to peg down; I don't feel like I always know who they are. They feel undeveloped. But that's probably because they just stare blankly back at people who are trying to hold a conversation with them.

Modifié par motomotogirl, 24 juin 2012 - 07:53 .

[AkiKishi]

wsandista wrote...

There seems to be some doubt if a voiced PC can work for a player-generated PC, so I wanted to get an idea what everyone thought about having a fixed PC since DA3 will absolutely feature a voiced PC.

Personally, I think that a voiced PC only works with a fixed PC.

Absolutely and of the same opinion of voicing and cinematic games only working with fixed characters.

[AkiKishi]

motomotogirl wrote...

What is a fixed PC?

I liked Hawke the most because I felt like I really knew who he was. He felt like a real person with a personality I could pin down.

I liked my Wardens but they are harder to peg down; I don't feel like I always know who they are. They feel undeveloped. But that's probably because they just stare blankly back at people who are trying to hold a conversation with them.

A fixed PC is one with a fully established identity that is known to the gameworld. In DAO you were known as the Warden because that was what was pre-written about you. In DA2 you are Hawke , but without a first name that is ever used or an appearence that actually means anything.

[AkiKishi]

wsandista wrote...
Shepard was done correctly, but Hawke was not(IMO). Shepard always had motivation determined, while Hawke has motivation determined for Act 1, but after that, no motivation is given. ME3 had it's problems, but Shepard lacking motivation(s) was not one of them.

Not according to a lot of people who played ME2. They were vehemently pissed at having to work with Cerberus becuse "their Shepard would never do that".

This is the core problem when it comes to trying to balance the idea of someones character vs the real version as intended by the writers.

[Dakota Strider]

motomotogirl wrote...

What is a fixed PC?

fixed  (fkst)
adj.
1. Firmly in position; stationary.
2. Determined; established; set: at a [color=#ff0000">fixed time]fixed[/color] price.
3. Not subject to change or variation; constant: pensioners on a fixed income.
4. Chemistry
a. Not readily evaporating; nonvolatile.
b. Being in a stable, combined form: fixed nitrogen.
5.
a. Firmly, often dogmatically held: fixed beliefs.
b. Persistently occurring in the mind; obsessive: a fixed, delusive notion.
6. Supplied, especially with funds or needs. Often used in combination: a well-fixed bachelor.
7. Illegally prearranged as to outcome: a fixed election.
And my own personal favorite:
8.  Neutered:   The dog was fixed so that it could not have any puppies.

Modifié par Dakota Strider, 24 juin 2012 - 05:11 .

[Yrkoon]

BobSmith101 wrote...

A fixed PC is one with a fully established identity that is known to the gameworld. In DAO you were known as the Warden because that was what was pre-written about you. In DA2 you are Hawke , but without a first name that is ever used or an appearence that actually means anything.

A fixed PC also necessitates a fixed gender, which is why I don't see Bioware ever taking the Geralt of Rivia/Lara Croft route with their games.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 24 juin 2012 - 05:35 .

[CuriousArtemis]

Yrkoon wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

A fixed PC is one with a fully established identity that is known to the gameworld. In DAO you were known as the Warden because that was what was pre-written about you. In DA2 you are Hawke , but without a first name that is ever used or an appearence that actually means anything.

A fixed PC also necessitates a fixed gender, which is why I don't see Bioware ever taking the Geralt of Rivia/Lara Croft route with their games.

Oh I see what you guys mean.  No I would not want that.  I like making my guy look the way I want him to look :)And I like choosing gender ... if there are gay romances available I play as a guy, but when there aren't I play as a girl, and that's really important to me, that I can have both those options.

Modifié par motomotogirl, 24 juin 2012 - 07:01 .

[In Exile]

BobSmith101 wrote...
This is the core problem when it comes to trying to balance the idea of someones character vs the real version as intended by the writers.

Pretending like this isn't a problem with a silent PC is ridiculous, however. It's all a matter of what kind of mental fantasy you prefer, because the dialogue is fixed regardless and your choices are always heavily circumscribed.

[AkiKishi]

Yrkoon wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

A fixed PC is one with a fully established identity that is known to the gameworld. In DAO you were known as the Warden because that was what was pre-written about you. In DA2 you are Hawke , but without a first name that is ever used or an appearence that actually means anything.

A fixed PC also necessitates a fixed gender, which is why I don't see Bioware ever taking the Geralt of Rivia/Lara Croft route with their games.

You could have more than one. Alpha Protocol was going to originally but it was cut later for cost reasons. Since Bioware likely intend a female VA that should not be so much of an issue.

[wsandista]

In Exile wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...
This is the core problem when it comes to trying to balance the idea of someones character vs the real version as intended by the writers.

Pretending like this isn't a problem with a silent PC is ridiculous, however. It's all a matter of what kind of mental fantasy you prefer, because the dialogue is fixed regardless and your choices are always heavily circumscribed.

No it isn't. With a silent PC using a full text dialogue system, the PC never surprises the player or contradicts the player design. There is a difference between "limited choice" and the voiced PC saying things you don't explicitly choose to say.

[wsandista]

motomotogirl wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

A fixed PC is one with a fully established identity that is known to the gameworld. In DAO you were known as the Warden because that was what was pre-written about you. In DA2 you are Hawke , but without a first name that is ever used or an appearence that actually means anything.

A fixed PC also necessitates a fixed gender, which is why I don't see Bioware ever taking the Geralt of Rivia/Lara Croft route with their games.

Oh I see what you guys mean.  No I would not want that.  I like making my guy look the way I want him to look :)And I like choosing gender ... if there are gay romances available I play as a guy, but when there aren't I play as a girl, and that's really important to me, that I can have both those options.

Fixed looks are not absolutely necessary for a fixed PC. A fixed background, personality, and motivations are. Hawke, Michael Thorton, and Shepard were fixed PCs just as much as Geralt or Adam Jensen, and you could change the first three's appearances.