95 réponses à ce sujet

[MichaelStuart]

Voiced, non-voiced, either way we will be limited by what responses the writers gave us.

In the end I don't care if Dragon Age 3 has a fixed PC.
As long as I have different responses for every question that don't all amount to "Yes, I will do this thing for you" I will happy.

note:One of these days, I want to play as a mute character.

[LobselVith8]

wsandista wrote...

There seems to be some doubt if a voiced PC can work for a player-generated PC, so I wanted to get an idea what everyone thought about having a fixed PC since DA3 will absolutely feature a voiced PC.

Personally, I think that a voiced PC only works with a fixed PC.

Hawke is a fixed protagonist; it seems like the next protagonist will also be fixed.

[Fallstar]

No, I really hope they bring back Origin stories. They were one of the things that made DAO stand out against most modern rpgs. 

If the VP is set in stone, in an ideal world we'd at least have multiple VAs to choose from. I imagine they'll decide the cost:benefit is too high on that however.

And yes, multiple races is another good thing to have. For example, I never played an elven character past the Origin story, but the fact that the option was there was great. Basically give us a meaningful character creator back, rather than just being able to pick a class and trying to get the right amount of stubble (not that such things are unimportant by any means )

Modifié par DuskWarden, 24 juin 2012 - 11:16 .

[LobselVith8]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

However, I've said it before and I'll say it again: you cannot "design", "create", or "write" your character in a computer game short of going in and completely re-writing the game mod-style.  No matter how many options the devs give you, they will always be finite.  Some of us are tired of playing the mute unnamed amnesiac fell-out-of-the-sky person, and do not pretend that this character archetype is any more "free" than one where you have some automatic connections to the game world.  Both have things you cannot choose.   Both are limited in different ways. Speaking as if one is limited and the other is not and thus one is the "correct" way to do a game is absurd.

We don't have infinite choices with our current technology, but some games are made with the developers expressing that fans will create their own protagonist, such as Skyrim and earlier Elder Scroll games. Are infinite choices provided? No, but unlike Hawke, my protagonist in Skyrim says the dialogue option I chose. Like my Surana Warden, who told Wynne the Circle of Ferelden was an "oppressive place" and she responded to that line; in contrast, if I choose to tell Elthina that she is "useless," then Hawke belligerently screams "Out if my way" like a buffoon.

Also, I don't see how a game that gives you options for your background, your motivation, and why you are embarking on a mission, is no more free than a game that leaves you wondering what your protagonist will say next, and forces you to deal with automatic lines of dialogue.

[fchopin]

wsandista wrote...

There seems to be some doubt if a voiced PC can work for a player-generated PC, so I wanted to get an idea what everyone thought about having a fixed PC since DA3 will absolutely feature a voiced PC.

Personally, I think that a voiced PC only works with a fixed PC.

I agree with you, a fixed pc works very well with a voiced pc.
 
Shepard from ME3 is mostly a predefined character but it works for me as i play my Shepard the same way.
 
I think it's almost impossible for a voiced pc character not to be defined if you really want to roleplay the character.

[syllogi]

If the character is "fixed" in having a predefined last name and background, I'll live with it.

If the character is "fixed" in having a predefined gender, sexual preference, and personality, I'll most likely pass on the game.

The latter definition takes away one of my favorite parts of RPGs. The former can be dealt with, with the power of imagination.

[ashwind]

syllogi wrote...
If the character is "fixed" in having a predefined gender, sexual preference, and personality, I'll most likely pass on the game.

Awwwww but The Witcher is such a beautiful and awesome game 

[Dave of Canada]

 I'd like a fixed PC similar to Geralt / Jensen, personally.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 25 juin 2012 - 12:48 .

[berelinde]

syllogi wrote...

If the character is "fixed" in having a predefined last name and background, I'll live with it.

If the character is "fixed" in having a predefined gender, sexual preference, and personality, I'll most likely pass on the game.

The latter definition takes away one of my favorite parts of RPGs. The former can be dealt with, with the power of imagination.

QFT. I wouldn't buy a game with even one of the three. Last name and background, I can live with.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I enjoy replaying games. I'll play them a dozen or more times, each with a different character. When the protagonist is fixed (The Witcher, Planescape: Torment, etc.) I get bored before I can finish the game even once.

[Yrkoon]

ashwind wrote...

syllogi wrote...
If the character is "fixed" in having a predefined gender, sexual preference, and personality, I'll most likely pass on the game.

Awwwww but The Witcher is such a beautiful and awesome game 

It is.  But it's  one of the few exceptions to the rule.   It succeeded.

 In my Opinion,  In order for a game to successfully pull off a totally fixed protagonist, its plot has to be something extraordinarily fantastic (Planescape: Torment).  Or,  Player agency has to manifest itself  within the storyline via  numerous  real plot choices (Witcher 2), since it is  taken away  from the player everywhere else. 

Otherwise it fails, and  even calling it a game becomes a misnomer.  It might as well just  be a movie.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 25 juin 2012 - 02:11 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Jensen and Marston worked as fixed characters because they are GOOD CHARACTERS.

We are interested in them, they have depth, character, and a life to them.
You can also play them in different manners.

While I prefer more free form characters a well integrated defined character also can work.
I mean its kind of nice to hear a name, rather than ANYTHING but a random first name.

NONE of my friends ever use my last name, or a nick name so its kind of weird playing a character who never hears it either.

[MrSaberTooth]

I loved Hawke and playing a fixed PC, i played the game as a funny guy. i liked it. i found the silent traveller thing from da1 to be rediculous. as far as the PC goes i like the voice acting more than anything i hope the trend continues. You can always customize your characters looks hopefully in the future tho without DLC

[wsandista]

Judging from most of the responses here, a fixed PC wouldn't be a good thing for most of you. I agree with you but DA3 will be a cinematic game with a voiced PC.

How would a player-generated PC work in a cinematic game with VO if the PC can contradict player design at any given moment?

To me it doesn't look like it could ever work.

[jillabender]

PsychoBlonde wrote…

However, I've said it before and I'll say it again: you cannot "design", "create", or "write" your character in a computer game short of going in and completely re-writing the game mod-style. No matter how many options the devs give you, they will always be finite. Some of us are tired of playing the mute unnamed amnesiac fell-out-of-the-sky person, and do not pretend that this character archetype is any more "free" than one where you have some automatic connections to the game world. Both have things you cannot choose. Both are limited in different ways. Speaking as if one is limited and the other is not and thus one is the "correct" way to do a game is absurd.

It's true that a cRPG character will never be the player's character in the same way that he or she would be if the player had written the story and all of the character's dialogue. But while a non-fixed, silent protagonist in the style of DA:O doesn't offer complete freedom to define the character, it provides a very different kind of freedom from a fixed, voiced protagonist in the style of DA2 – not necessarily better or worse, but different.

The dialogue choices available to the PC in DA:O are limited, true, but for me, they provide just enough detail to allow me to imagine my character's tone of voice, and reasons for speaking and acting as he or she does. For example, when my Warden has the option to say to Wynne "Sometimes I wish I could go back to my old life," it's up to me to imagine why my character misses his or her old life. Similarly, if I choose the option for my character to say that becoming a Warden was "The best thing that ever happened to me," it's up to me to imagine why he or she feels that way. It's those nuances that allow me to imagine my Wardens vividly, and that make them feel like real and unique people to me – it feels almost as though defining my character is a collaborative effort between me and the writers.

With a voiced protagonist in the style of Hawke, those nuances of emotion and motivation are no longer left to my imagination, and the experience of defining my character, as I've described it, is lost.

You may not enjoy the style of role-playing with a silent protagonist that I've described, and that's completely fine – lots of people don't. But – and I say this with complete respect – bringing up the idea of having complete freedom to define one's character misses the point. Neither DA:O nor DA2 offers complete freedom to define the player character, but they do offer very different experiences, and personally, I prefer the experience provided by DA:O.

That being said, I realize that Bioware isn't interested in continuing the Dragon Age series with a silent protagonist in the style of DA:O, and I've accepted that. My hope for DA3 is that it will feature a protagonist who feels more multidimensional, and who has more of a personal stake in the central conflict of the story, than Hawke.

Modifié par jillabender, 23 juillet 2012 - 07:42 .

[Swordfishtrombone]

Fixed PC = Me not buy. Simple as that. If it's a choise between having a voiced character that is fixed, or a non-voiced character that is maximally customizable, I'll go for the latter option 100% of the time.

[jillabender]

wsandista wrote…

Judging from most of the responses here, a fixed PC wouldn't be a good thing for most of you. I agree with you but DA3 will be a cinematic game with a voiced PC.

How would a player-generated PC work in a cinematic game with VO if the PC can contradict player design at any given moment?

To me it doesn't look like it could ever work.

Well, I don't personally think it worked particularly well in DA2, but since they've stated that they'll definitely continue to use a dialogue wheel of some kind, it seems that Bioware plans to feature a voiced and player-generated protagonist again in DA3. I'll admit that makes me a bit apprehensive, but I have faith that Bioware will come up with new and better ways to tell the story with a voiced and player-generated protagonist.

Personally, if DA3 were to feature a protagonist with a truly defined and "fixed" personality, like Zoe Castillo or April Ryan in "Dreamfall: the Longest Journey," I would happily choose that over a game in the style of DA2, because I suspect that a completely fixed protagonist would eliminate many of the problems I had with the writing in DA2. But I suspect that I'm in the minority. In any event, I have faith that DA3 will create a new style of storytelling that will surpass what was offered in DA2.

Modifié par jillabender, 25 juin 2012 - 08:35 .

[In Exile]

wsandista wrote...
No it isn't. With a silent PC using a full text dialogue system, the PC never surprises the player or contradicts the player design.

The PC most certainly does. Let me drag out my oft-quoted DA:O example (though it's been so long, I'm going to have to paraphrase): 

Morrigain and the Warden, at one conversationt tree, can talk about what it was like for Morrigain growing up.

Morrigan: And what was up with all the touching?

Warden: Did the naughty touching make you uncomfortable? [my read: Oh noes! Poor Morrigain had to shake hands. Stop whinning <_<]
Morrigain: That kind of touching I understand.

Right then and there, the game outright told me that either Morrigan was an idiot that couldn't detect sarcasm (which is just so out of character as to be ridiculous) or the line didn't mean what I thought it did.

And this has been a nice lesson in pragmatics. Because; 

Did the naughty touching make you uncomfortable? 

is not:

Did the naught touching make you uncomfortable? <_<

There is a difference between "limited choice" and the voiced PC saying things you don't explicitly choose to say.

And without emphasis, intent and pragmatics, a blunt line of text does nothing for me.

That's why books have things like "... Joe said sharply, anger flashing visibly on his face" instead of being long series of statements back and forth.

Modifié par In Exile, 25 juin 2012 - 05:49 .

[In Exile]

wsandista wrote...
How would a player-generated PC work in a cinematic game with VO if the PC can contradict player design at any given moment?

To me it doesn't look like it could ever work.

About as well as DA:O did, since that game contradicted my Warden at every turn to my infinite frustration.

[hussey 92]

I agree with the OP, Voice acting seems to go specifically with fixed PC's. So I predict another Commander Shepard for DA3.

[Emzamination]

In Exile wrote...

wsandista wrote...
No it isn't. With a silent PC using a full text dialogue system, the PC never surprises the player or contradicts the player design.

The PC most certainly does. Let me drag out my oft-quoted DA:O example (though it's been so long, I'm going to have to paraphrase): 

Morrigain and the Warden, at one conversationt tree, can talk about what it was like for Morrigain growing up.

Morrigan: And what was up with all the touching?

Warden: Did the naughty touching make you uncomfortable? [my read: Oh noes! Poor Morrigain had to shake hands. Stop whinning <_<]
Morrigain: That kind of touching I understand.

Right then and there, the game outright told me that either Morrigan was an idiot that couldn't detect sarcasm (which is just so out of character as to be ridiculous) or the line didn't mean what I thought it did.

And this has been a nice lesson in pragmatics. Because; 

Did the naughty touching make you uncomfortable? 

is not:

Did the naught touching make you uncomfortable? <_<

There is a difference between "limited choice" and the voiced PC saying things you don't explicitly choose to say.

And without emphasis, intent and pragmatics, a blunt line of text does nothing for me.

That's why books have things like "... Joe said sharply, anger flashing visibly on his face" instead of being long series of statements back and forth.

What? Hake voicing "I love you merril" gave me a far deeper game immersion than me voicing the "I love you morrigan" text in my head during origins.No more text chat, I need to have conversations with people of the realm using sound and words like everyone-else, not telepathy.

[AkiKishi]

LobselVith8 wrote...

wsandista wrote...

There seems to be some doubt if a voiced PC can work for a player-generated PC, so I wanted to get an idea what everyone thought about having a fixed PC since DA3 will absolutely feature a voiced PC.

Personally, I think that a voiced PC only works with a fixed PC.

Hawke is a fixed protagonist; it seems like the next protagonist will also be fixed.

Hawke is semi fixed. Which is what causes most of the problems.. Same sort of thing happened to Shepard in ME3 when they changed how the dilogue was structured. Did mean better voice acting.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 25 juin 2012 - 08:57 .

[hussey 92]

In Exile wrote...

wsandista wrote...
No it isn't. With a silent PC using a full text dialogue system, the PC never surprises the player or contradicts the player design.

The PC most certainly does. Let me drag out my oft-quoted DA:O example (though it's been so long, I'm going to have to paraphrase): 

Morrigain and the Warden, at one conversationt tree, can talk about what it was like for Morrigain growing up.

Morrigan: And what was up with all the touching?

Warden: Did the naughty touching make you uncomfortable? [my read: Oh noes! Poor Morrigain had to shake hands. Stop whinning <_<]
Morrigain: That kind of touching I understand.

Right then and there, the game outright told me that either Morrigan was an idiot that couldn't detect sarcasm (which is just so out of character as to be ridiculous) or the line didn't mean what I thought it did.

What are you talking about?  Morrigan was just responding to your sargasm with a witty remark.  

Modifié par hussey 92, 25 juin 2012 - 08:29 .

[Fallstar]

hussey 92 wrote...

In Exile wrote...

wsandista wrote...
No it isn't. With a silent PC using a full text dialogue system, the PC never surprises the player or contradicts the player design.

The PC most certainly does. Let me drag out my oft-quoted DA:O example (though it's been so long, I'm going to have to paraphrase): 

Morrigain and the Warden, at one conversationt tree, can talk about what it was like for Morrigain growing up.

Morrigan: And what was up with all the touching?

Warden: Did the naughty touching make you uncomfortable? [my read: Oh noes! Poor Morrigain had to shake hands. Stop whinning <_<]
Morrigain: That kind of touching I understand.

Right then and there, the game outright told me that either Morrigan was an idiot that couldn't detect sarcasm (which is just so out of character as to be ridiculous) or the line didn't mean what I thought it did.

What are you talking about?  Morrigan was just responding to your sargasm with a witty remark.  

Yeah it seems more like you failed to detect the sarcasm there, not Morrigan.

[Zanallen]

I highly doubt Bioware is going to take away the ability to choose the PC's gender any time soon.