346 réponses à ce sujet

[Ownedbacon]

The Angry One wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

False dilemma, Reapers are hybrids. It shouldn't even affect synthetics.

They are synthetic. While it maybe true that organic DNA make up certain components of the Reapers' bodies, their intelligence is artificial, synthetic.

They are gestalt organic intelligences, the core of their minds is organic. They are not true "synthetic" life.

As Legion states (in ME2) they are more Shepard's future than that of the Geth.

Legion: Transcended flesh. Billions of organic minds, uploaded and conjoined within immortal machine bodies.
"Each a nation." We did not "know." It was one hypothesis among many. When Nazara corrupted the heretics, we touched its minds. We perceived they were different from ours, but could not tell how.

Modifié par Ownedbacon, 24 juin 2012 - 10:14 .

[Reptilian Rob]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

bleetman wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...

...but also to get more natural dialog. Hard to make impactful, player-involved scene when you pick each line.
https://twitter.com/...830230780973056

Uh huh.

What he meant to say was- Hard for him/the writing team to write natural sounding dialogue where the player got to pick each line.

Lame excuse is really lame. 

[MegaSovereign]

The Angry One wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

False dilemma, Reapers are hybrids. It shouldn't even affect synthetics.

They are synthetic. While it maybe true that organic DNA make up certain components of the Reapers' bodies, their intelligence is artificial, synthetic.

They are gestalt organic intelligences, the core of their minds is organic. They are not true "synthetic" life.

Then there goes the "we built synthetics to save you from synthetics" meme.

Thanks a lot.

[thisisme8]

iakus wrote...

thisisme8 wrote...

None of the options are perfect, but that's part of the story - a hero who overcomes impossible odds to stop the cycle with the only methods available.  Hell, it's been hinted at us for three games now:  Defeating the reapers conventionally is impossible, we have to find a way to stop the cycle.

There's imperfect, then there's the endings we got, which are a whole other level of bad.  It's arbitrary, unnecessary and frankly antifun.

One should not need to be cheered up after compleing a video game.  In Conrad Verner's words "I thought you were a hero!  Heroes don't do things like this!  I wish I'd never met you!"

Similarly, at this point I wish I'd never heard of the Mass Effect franchise

I'm sorry you feel that way, my opinion differs.  I saw the endings coming when I played ME1, so the options were not a big surprise.  Not exactly what I thought they'd be, but not a surprise.  I won't argue with execution, that's a matter of opinion as well...  whether or not the endings could have been executed better or worse - we'll see with the EC.

[DRTJR]

thisisme8 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

thisisme8 wrote...

DRTJR wrote...

What we learn in ME2
Sythetics and Organics can live in harmony

I keep seeing this as an argument as to why the cycle made no sense, when it was this harmony that allowed the cycle to end.

Harmony = co-existence = NOT SYNTHESIS.

That's a good point, and only one option...  but does that make control the paragon option, since it removes the threat of the reapers and allows the synthetics and organics to decide for themselves?  Does that mean the the destruction option is the renegade one, since it destroys the synthetics?  Did BioWare purposefully make the interpretation of the endings to be vague like this?

No they botched the endings,Control isn't Paragon since all of the reaper tech is still there encluding the citidel. We can't venture forth onto new horizens if we still folow in the preguided footsteps of the Reapers, which is Control.

[Dean_the_Young]

The Angry One wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

The PR department have told us that the brat is a "being of light" which is supposed to fight "machine devils". The codex of Klencory mentions their existence in two games. Do I believe the PR? Don't ask me.

Which is bs since Starbrat is not fighting "machine devils."

In this cycle? No. In other cycles? The Catalyst creates with the intent to oppose AI, which could qualify, and in other cycles the Reapers may have been involved in fighting synthetics as well.

Yeah like the Geth. Who they took control of and used to exterminate organics.
Or the Zha'til. Who they took control of and used to exterminate organics.

Bang up job of fighting those machine devils!

Your tendency to tilt at straw windmills is, as always, as impressive as your eloquence.

I have two in game examples that contradict your argument.
You have nothing.

Who's tilting at windmills again?

You are, since you're arguing the strawman.

[Ticonderoga117]

MegaSovereign wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

False dilemma, Reapers are hybrids. It shouldn't even affect synthetics.

They are synthetic. While it maybe true that organic DNA make up certain components of the Reapers' bodies, their intelligence is artificial, synthetic.

They are gestalt organic intelligences, the core of their minds is organic. They are not true "synthetic" life.

Then there goes the "we built synthetics to save you from synthetics" meme.

Thanks a lot.

They are still artificial lifeforms. Artificial sounds awfully close to synthetic to me.

[AngryFrozenWater]

thisisme8 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

thisisme8 wrote...

DRTJR wrote...

What we learn in ME2
Sythetics and Organics can live in harmony

I keep seeing this as an argument as to why the cycle made no sense, when it was this harmony that allowed the cycle to end.

Harmony = co-existence = NOT SYNTHESIS.

That's a good point, and only one option...  but does that make control the paragon option, since it removes the threat of the reapers and allows the synthetics and organics to decide for themselves?  Does that mean the the destruction option is the renegade one, since it destroys the synthetics?  Did BioWare purposefully make the interpretation of the endings to be vague like this?

It looks like they swapped some stuff around. I think that exterminating the geth would make more sense in the control option than in the destroy option. In the latter you specify that you do not agree with the brat's motives and thus you should have to face the synthetics yourself. That's no problem either, because you already did, by either destroying the geth or making peace with them on Rannoch. And when you made peace with them the brat yet again interferes with something that is none of its business.

[thisisme8]

DRTJR wrote...

No they botched the endings,Control isn't Paragon since all of the reaper tech is still there encluding the citidel. We can't venture forth onto new horizens if we still folow in the preguided footsteps of the Reapers, which is Control.

That doesn't mean they botched the endings, that means they left the interpretation of the ending up to you... which is my point.

Modifié par thisisme8, 24 juin 2012 - 10:23 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Ownedbacon wrote...

There were other ways the series could have gone to resolve itself. Reapers could have just been beings "ascending" other species without the whole created/creator synthetics vs. organics crap, which was a small part of the whole story.

They could have been many different things, yes, both better and worse. That what they were wasn't planned in advance is the weakness of the prior establishments.

The Catalyst character and the Reapers being enslaved to the cycle are things that were not present in the previous installments.

It's not actually prevented either, given the unclear nature of the influence of the Catalyst and the unclear nature of Reaper autonomy vis-a-vis independence. There's actually more of a jump between ME1 and ME2 about the Reapers (the species-gestalt nature) than there is from ME2 to ME3. As soon as we saw the unwilling-creation process of the Reapers, Sovereign's 'we are each independent' was pretty blantantly going to be less than free-will on the part of the created Reapers.

These additions retconned the Reapers and ruined them as antagonists. What happened to Harbinger?

He flew over to the galaxy and fought in a war that doesn't revolve around him.

[MegaSovereign]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

False dilemma, Reapers are hybrids. It shouldn't even affect synthetics.

They are synthetic. While it maybe true that organic DNA make up certain components of the Reapers' bodies, their intelligence is artificial, synthetic.

They are gestalt organic intelligences, the core of their minds is organic. They are not true "synthetic" life.

Then there goes the "we built synthetics to save you from synthetics" meme.

Thanks a lot.

They are still artificial lifeforms. Artificial sounds awfully close to synthetic to me.

Off-topic but I just realized something.

If you saved the collector base, why didn't Cerberus salvage both the Reaper heart AND the brain?

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 24 juin 2012 - 10:23 .

[Iakus]

thisisme8 wrote...

I'm sorry you feel that way, my opinion differs.  I saw the endings coming when I played ME1, so the options were not a big surprise.  Not exactly what I thought they'd be, but not a surprise.  I won't argue with execution, that's a matter of opinion as well...  whether or not the endings could have been executed better or worse - we'll see with the EC.

I saw nothing as inevitable.  In fact, Shepard throughout the series has been built up as the ultimate survivor, who wrings victory out of situations everyone else steers clear of. And lives to tell the tale, no less.  Zaeed could only aspire to be like Shepard.  

As to execution.  It sounds like nothing is going to change.  So why did they bother with EC?

[thisisme8]

Ownedbacon wrote...

There were other ways the series could have gone to resolve itself. Reapers could have just been beings "ascending" other species without the whole created/creator synthetics vs. organics crap, which was a small part of the whole story. The Catalyst character and the Reapers being enslaved to the cycle are things that were not present in the previous installments. These additions retconned the Reapers and ruined them as antagonists. What happened to Harbinger?

Actually, no.  That was established in ME1 as a large part of the story.

[thisisme8]

iakus wrote...

I saw nothing as inevitable.  In fact, Shepard throughout the series has been built up as the ultimate survivor, who wrings victory out of situations everyone else steers clear of. And lives to tell the tale, no less.  Zaeed could only aspire to be like Shepard.  

As to execution.  It sounds like nothing is going to change.  So why did they bother with EC?

Right, Shep is the one person who could do what no one else could:  End the cycle.  Defeating the reapers, however, was impossible from the beginning.

The EC is being released because BioWare wants to give closure to what happens with the rest of the characters after the conclusion.

[Ticonderoga117]

MegaSovereign wrote...
Off-topic but I just realized something.

If you saved the collector base, why didn't Cerberus salvage both the Reaper heart AND the brain?

Same reason why Cerberus managed to salvage anything even if you destroyed it. It's all arbitrary! To hell with you and your choices!

[Phaedros]

The Angry One wrote...

Mass Effect lead writer: Drew Karpyshyn
Mass Effect 2 lead writers: Drew Karpyshyn and Mac Walters
Mass Effect 3 lead writer: Mac Walters

Draw your own conclusions.

Drew *sic* my own conclusions after DA2...


Brent!


What do we knowles...

[BiO]

Because they didn't have enough time to do so.

[Bekkael]

Phaedros wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Mass Effect lead writer: Drew Karpyshyn
Mass Effect 2 lead writers: Drew Karpyshyn and Mac Walters
Mass Effect 3 lead writer: Mac Walters

Draw your own conclusions.

Drew *sic* my own conclusions after DA2...


Brent!


What do we knowles...

Very cute.

[Reptilian Rob]

MegaSovereign wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

False dilemma, Reapers are hybrids. It shouldn't even affect synthetics.

They are synthetic. While it maybe true that organic DNA make up certain components of the Reapers' bodies, their intelligence is artificial, synthetic.

They are gestalt organic intelligences, the core of their minds is organic. They are not true "synthetic" life.

Then there goes the "we built synthetics to save you from synthetics" meme.

Thanks a lot.

Yo dawg, I heard you liked rushed games? So we rushed your favorite game, so you could rush through it without talking to anyone so you could rush to the BSN forums and rush right back out.

[Ownedbacon]

thisisme8 wrote...

Ownedbacon wrote...

There were other ways the series could have gone to resolve itself. Reapers could have just been beings "ascending" other species without the whole created/creator synthetics vs. organics crap, which was a small part of the whole story. The Catalyst character and the Reapers being enslaved to the cycle are things that were not present in the previous installments. These additions retconned the Reapers and ruined them as antagonists. What happened to Harbinger?

Actually, no.  That was established in ME1 as a large part of the story.

With Geth Heretics being controlled by Reapers they were misled by the Reapers while the rest of the Geth weren't. Mass Effect while having that conflict, it wasn't the entire focus. The synthetic/organic conflict to have held more weight as the reason for the cycle had the Reapers not been controlling the Geth heretics. Had the Geth rebelled after becoming self aware and swept across the galaxy by their own will, this would have been more fitting to the ending we got. With the addition of Legion and the realization that the Reapers were:  "Transcended flesh. Billions of organic minds, uploaded and conjoined within immortal machine bodies. "Each a nation." This was more of organics fighting against its own possible evolution. Had they gone a similar backstory for the Reapers being organics who willfully "ascended" (as in the dark energy plot) it is in line with what  we learned about them in ME2.

Modifié par Ownedbacon, 24 juin 2012 - 10:47 .

[jeweledleah]

to OP. what control over Shepard we had in a first 2 games, wasn't removed at the end of ME3. it was removed right from the start of it. I don't know precisely why they did away with so much of what made bioware rpgs a unique experience, but I wanted to point it out nonetheless. copious auto dialogue with very few player choices, 99% linear gameplay... it all starts in the very first minutes of the game. ending is just a cherry on top.

[Reptilian Rob]

jeweledleah wrote...

to OP. what control over Shepard we had in a first 2 games, wasn't removed at the end of ME3. it was removed right from the start of it. I don't know precisely why they did away with so much of what made bioware rpgs a unique experience, but I wanted to point it out nonetheless. copious auto dialogue with very few player choices, 99% linear gameplay... it all starts in the very first minutes of the game. ending is just a cherry on top.

I can answer this one.

EA.

[Bekkael]

jeweledleah wrote...

to OP. what control over Shepard we had in a first 2 games, wasn't removed at the end of ME3. it was removed right from the start of it. I don't know precisely why they did away with so much of what made bioware rpgs a unique experience, but I wanted to point it out nonetheless. copious auto dialogue with very few player choices, 99% linear gameplay... it all starts in the very first minutes of the game. ending is just a cherry on top.

I completely agree with this. ME3 felt like playing an entirely different style of game than ME1 or ME2, and not in a positive way.

[Iakus]

thisisme8 wrote...

Right, Shep is the one person who could do what no one else could:  End the cycle.  Defeating the reapers, however, was impossible from the beginning.

Only impossible because we weren't shown a way.  SOmething ME2 should have done.  Or at least hinted at.

The EC is being released because BioWare wants to give closure to what happens with the rest of the characters after the conclusion.

Bioware should leave grim narrative action games to Rockstar Games and go back to giving us games with choices.

And not just Red Green or Blue