346 réponses à ce sujet

[LiarasShield]

MegaSovereign wrote...

No!

I'm in Control!

No one is telling me what to do!

Wish shepard could've said that to the catalyst lol

[CuseGirl]

bleetman wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

And the Catalyst never "outright" denies killing.

"But you killed the rest."

"We helped them ascend so they could make way for new life, storing the old life in Reaper form."

It deliberately dodges the question about killing anything.

Helped them ascend < sugar-coating a diabolically painful and horrific process.

so they could make way for new life < platitude and justification

storing the old life in Reaper form < outright lie.

Not to mention it responds to the previous accusation that it wipes out organic life with a flat out "no".

He basically says "well we left the humans alone when we wiped out the protheans last time, what's your problem?"

Not only is the dialogue of the Starchild horrendous, the tone that the child or Mark Meer/Jennifer Hale used was incredibly insulting and condescending. As he's telling what he is, what he represents, he basically chastises you for attempting to question it. How Bioware didn't see an issue with that entire scene is just beyond me.

[Reptilian Rob]

MegaSovereign wrote...

No!

I'm in Control!

No one is telling me what to do!

Listen to yourself, you're indoctrinated! Bioware is controlling you!

[thisisme8]

The Angry One wrote...

Do we go out of our way to terrorise them?
Do we stomp on their works and individually squash them while gloating about how superior we are?

Well. Children may do. But I would think a billion year old AI would know better. The Reapers do not only exterminate. They revel in murder and torture. They enjoy it. They are maniacs.

The Reapers and the Catalyst view their position the same.  Destroy the bugs, while keeping them intact in another form to preserve their memory.

Explain why they choose to do this by inflicting as much pain and suffering as possible.

And the Catalyst never "outright" denies killing.

"But you killed the rest."

"We helped them ascend so they could make way for new life, storing the old life in Reaper form."

It deliberately dodges the question about killing anything.

Helped them ascend < sugar-coating a diabolically painful and horrific process.

so they could make way for new life < platitude and justification

storing the old life in Reaper form < outright lie.

That's still projection.  Where does it show reapers reveling in murder and torture?  Where do they enjoy it?  As a matter of fact, the reapers never show any form of emotion.  Everything they say is presented as a perception of fact.

I'm not showing any desperation in defending them.  I think what they do is apalling, but I'm not projecting an evil and diabolical scheme onto them either.  As a matter of fact, their cold, emotionless nature is far scarier than anything that could be considered evil.

[The Angry One]

CuseGirl wrote...

bleetman wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

And the Catalyst never "outright" denies killing.

"But you killed the rest."

"We helped them ascend so they could make way for new life, storing the old life in Reaper form."

It deliberately dodges the question about killing anything.

Helped them ascend < sugar-coating a diabolically painful and horrific process.

so they could make way for new life < platitude and justification

storing the old life in Reaper form < outright lie.

Not to mention it responds to the previous accusation that it wipes out organic life with a flat out "no".

He basically says "well we left the humans alone when we wiped out the protheans last time, what's your problem?"

Not only is the dialogue of the Starchild horrendous, the tone that the child or Mark Meer/Jennifer Hale used was incredibly insulting and condescending. As he's telling what he is, what he represents, he basically chastises you for attempting to question it. How Bioware didn't see an issue with that entire scene is just beyond me.

Because it's art, darling!
What really gets me is that Hudson and Walters continue to not see anything wrong with this.
People make mistakes. Maybe they were pressed for time. But after months of thinking about it, knowing that we have a problem with it... they still think it's acceptable?

I do not get how any rational human being can think this way.

[DRTJR]

thisisme8 wrote...

All your choices do matter.  At some point, there has to be an end.  They can give you 2 hours of cutscenes showing the result of every single decision you made throughout the ME series, but they didn't.  That doesn't change the fact that those decisions were still made and do matter.  Did Wrex die in ME1? In ME3?  Did the Geth and Quarians end their war?  How?  Etc. etc.

I would have LOVED that. Hell I wish Piority Earth was pure cutsceanse that showcased every minute detail of how MY Shep brought together the greatest fighting force that has or ever will be in the galaxy.

[LiarasShield]

look at us the reapers have us fighting each other instead of fighting them it is not too late break their control you are stronger Break Free!!

[CuseGirl]

thisisme8 wrote...
That's still projection.  Where does it show reapers reveling in murder and torture?  Where do they enjoy it?  As a matter of fact, the reapers never show any form of emotion.  Everything they say is presented as a perception of fact.

I'm not showing any desperation in defending them.  I think what they do is apalling, but I'm not projecting an evil and diabolical scheme onto them either.  As a matter of fact, their cold, emotionless nature is far scarier than anything that could be considered evil.

OK, after those two lines, I'm done.....

[XqctaX]

thisisme8 wrote...

XqctaX wrote...
comparing sentinent humanoid spacefaring advanced races to bugs does not really help your argument.

The difference in evolution between us and bugs is smaller than the perceived evolutionary difference between a reaper and a human.

that is besides the point.
reapers are sentient beeings.
humans are sentient beeings.
bugs are not sentient beeings.  my argument still stands. you made a bad comparison that does not hold 

[thisisme8]

bleetman wrote...

Not to mention it responds to the previous accusation that it wipes out organic life with a flat out "no".

It actually doesn't.  We found a way - by wiping out organic life? - no.  He's not saying he doesn't wipe out organic life, he's saying that wiping out organic life is not "the way,"  harvesting is.

[The Angry One]

thisisme8 wrote...

That's still projection.  Where does it show reapers reveling in murder and torture?  Where do they enjoy it?  As a matter of fact, the reapers never show any form of emotion.  Everything they say is presented as a perception of fact.

Sovereign and Harbinger revel in their roles. They bask in their own superiority.
Sovereign was not his name. Nazara was his name. Sovereign was a name given to him by Saren. Sovereign took that name and declared "I am Sovereign". "Sovereign" denotes power, authority, superiority.
He took that name BECAUSE HE ENJOYED IT.

I'm not showing any desperation in defending them.  I think what they do is apalling, but I'm not projecting an evil and diabolical scheme onto them either.  As a matter of fact, their cold, emotionless nature is far scarier than anything that could be considered evil.

When we humans kill and cull animals for food or enviroment preservation, we try to make it quick and painless, to prevent suffering. Of non-sapient creatures.
The Reapers on the other hand use indoctrination to drive organics crazy, piece colony domes to kill people slowly by suffocation, stomp on buildings like Godzilla, take potshots at shuttles, set planets on fire, broadcast threats to humiliate and terrify.

That is not cold and emotionless. That is petty and sadistic.

[Reptilian Rob]

The Angry One wrote...

CuseGirl wrote...

bleetman wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

And the Catalyst never "outright" denies killing.

"But you killed the rest."

"We helped them ascend so they could make way for new life, storing the old life in Reaper form."

It deliberately dodges the question about killing anything.

Helped them ascend < sugar-coating a diabolically painful and horrific process.

so they could make way for new life < platitude and justification

storing the old life in Reaper form < outright lie.

Not to mention it responds to the previous accusation that it wipes out organic life with a flat out "no".

He basically says "well we left the humans alone when we wiped out the protheans last time, what's your problem?"

Not only is the dialogue of the Starchild horrendous, the tone that the child or Mark Meer/Jennifer Hale used was incredibly insulting and condescending. As he's telling what he is, what he represents, he basically chastises you for attempting to question it. How Bioware didn't see an issue with that entire scene is just beyond me.

Because it's art, darling!
What really gets me is that Hudson and Walters continue to not see anything wrong with this.
People make mistakes. Maybe they were pressed for time. But after months of thinking about it, knowing that we have a problem with it... they still think it's acceptable?

I do not get how any rational human being can think this way.

It's because they are not humans...

They are Reapers.

[thisisme8]

DRTJR wrote...

thisisme8 wrote...

All your choices do matter.  At some point, there has to be an end.  They can give you 2 hours of cutscenes showing the result of every single decision you made throughout the ME series, but they didn't.  That doesn't change the fact that those decisions were still made and do matter.  Did Wrex die in ME1? In ME3?  Did the Geth and Quarians end their war?  How?  Etc. etc.

I would have LOVED that. Hell I wish Piority Earth was pure cutsceanse that showcased every minute detail of how MY Shep brought together the greatest fighting force that has or ever will be in the galaxy.

I would have loved it too.  Well, to an extent.  To actually see what happened to everyone and where they went and etc would have been great, but at the same time, I'm one of the few people who thought the end of Return of the King was a bit long and drawn out.

[LiarasShield]

thisisme8 wrote...

DRTJR wrote...

thisisme8 wrote...

All your choices do matter.  At some point, there has to be an end.  They can give you 2 hours of cutscenes showing the result of every single decision you made throughout the ME series, but they didn't.  That doesn't change the fact that those decisions were still made and do matter.  Did Wrex die in ME1? In ME3?  Did the Geth and Quarians end their war?  How?  Etc. etc.

I would have LOVED that. Hell I wish Piority Earth was pure cutsceanse that showcased every minute detail of how MY Shep brought together the greatest fighting force that has or ever will be in the galaxy.

I would have loved it too.  Well, to an extent.  To actually see what happened to everyone and where they went and etc would have been great, but at the same time, I'm one of the few people who thought the end of Return of the King was a bit long and drawn out.

Ahh but in return of the king they actually beat the dark lords forces for standing their ground and not giving into his demands the way I was hopeing it was gonna be in thsi one

[thisisme8]

XqctaX wrote...

thisisme8 wrote...

XqctaX wrote...
comparing sentinent humanoid spacefaring advanced races to bugs does not really help your argument.

The difference in evolution between us and bugs is smaller than the perceived evolutionary difference between a reaper and a human.

that is besides the point.
reapers are sentient beeings.
humans are sentient beeings.
bugs are not sentient beeings.  my argument still stands. you made a bad comparison that does not hold 

It does hold because what matters is how they perceive us, not how we perceive us.

[Ownedbacon]

The Angry One wrote...

CuseGirl wrote...

bleetman wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

And the Catalyst never "outright" denies killing.

"But you killed the rest."

"We helped them ascend so they could make way for new life, storing the old life in Reaper form."

It deliberately dodges the question about killing anything.

Helped them ascend < sugar-coating a diabolically painful and horrific process.

so they could make way for new life < platitude and justification

storing the old life in Reaper form < outright lie.

Not to mention it responds to the previous accusation that it wipes out organic life with a flat out "no".

He basically says "well we left the humans alone when we wiped out the protheans last time, what's your problem?"

Not only is the dialogue of the Starchild horrendous, the tone that the child or Mark Meer/Jennifer Hale used was incredibly insulting and condescending. As he's telling what he is, what he represents, he basically chastises you for attempting to question it. How Bioware didn't see an issue with that entire scene is just beyond me.

Because it's art, darling!
What really gets me is that Hudson and Walters continue to not see anything wrong with this.
People make mistakes. Maybe they were pressed for time. But after months of thinking about it, knowing that we have a problem with it... they still think it's acceptable?

I do not get how any rational human being can think this way.

Yeah I listened to that Extended cut audio interview with Casey and Mac and about changing the endings they said they wouldn't know how to tell the story any other way than the way they did. The funny thing is is the way ME3 ends is so far from the story we've been told with the rest of the series.

[grey_wind]

Because if we were allowed free reign over our Shepards, then it would be impossible to justify why we can't work with TIM, why we put all our faith into the Crucible and Hackett's incompetence, why we should theoretically care about Vent Brat, and why we're so eager to write off the ME2 squad in favour of the ME1 team to the point of pyschopathy.

[XqctaX]

The Angry One wrote...

CuseGirl wrote...

bleetman wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

And the Catalyst never "outright" denies killing.

"But you killed the rest."

"We helped them ascend so they could make way for new life, storing the old life in Reaper form."

It deliberately dodges the question about killing anything.

Helped them ascend < sugar-coating a diabolically painful and horrific process.

so they could make way for new life < platitude and justification

storing the old life in Reaper form < outright lie.

Not to mention it responds to the previous accusation that it wipes out organic life with a flat out "no".

He basically says "well we left the humans alone when we wiped out the protheans last time, what's your problem?"

Not only is the dialogue of the Starchild horrendous, the tone that the child or Mark Meer/Jennifer Hale used was incredibly insulting and condescending. As he's telling what he is, what he represents, he basically chastises you for attempting to question it. How Bioware didn't see an issue with that entire scene is just beyond me.

Because it's art, darling!
What really gets me is that Hudson and Walters continue to not see anything wrong with this.
People make mistakes. Maybe they were pressed for time. But after months of thinking about it, knowing that we have a problem with it... they still think it's acceptable?

I do not get how any rational human being can think this way.

becouse they have an agenda me thinks 

[Ownedbacon]

CuseGirl wrote...

Everyone keeps saying the logistics of creating the endings we wanted was impossible. I call bunk on that. ME-2 featured in-engine cutscenes which showed you the consequences of your choices/actions all game long. Why is that suddenly, in the finale of a trilogy, a game that really SHOULD be delayed, late, overdone, and coddled, that Bioware couldn't deliver?

I don't think the scope of ME-3 or the ME series is too big that we couldn't see what happened to Rannoch, what happened with the Krogan, see what happened with all the possible LI's, see the ME-2 squaddies (either together or apart), and show us if the cleanup of the war effort is going well (based on EMS in my opinion). 

This. Priority Earth should have been like the suicide mission.

[DungeonHoek]

CuseGirl wrote...

Everyone keeps saying the logistics of creating the endings we wanted was impossible. I call bunk on that. ME-2 featured in-engine cutscenes which showed you the consequences of your choices/actions all game long. Why is that suddenly, in the finale of a trilogy, a game that really SHOULD be delayed, late, overdone, and coddled, that Bioware couldn't deliver?

I don't think the scope of ME-3 or the ME series is too big that we couldn't see what happened to Rannoch, what happened with the Krogan, see what happened with all the possible LI's, see the ME-2 squaddies (either together or apart), and show us if the cleanup of the war effort is going well (based on EMS in my opinion). 

I'm pretty sure the ugly truth is right out infront of us all, we're staring it in the face and we just don't want to actually admit that we're looking at it. Kinda like how someone reacts when they find their house has been broken into.

[The Angry One]

thisisme8 wrote...

It does hold because what matters is how they perceive us, not how we perceive us.

If they refuse to see other sentient beings that they can communicate with as anything other than bugs to squash, then.. guess what? They are genocidal maniacs.

Human history is rife with groups who did not see other humans as equals, as intelligent/civilised, as little more than animals and so on.
Were they right? Were they justified in their actions of slavery and genocide because they refused to see other humans as equals? No. No they weren't, and neither are the Reapers.

Modifié par The Angry One, 24 juin 2012 - 08:36 .

[LiarasShield]

Ownedbacon wrote...

CuseGirl wrote...

Everyone keeps saying the logistics of creating the endings we wanted was impossible. I call bunk on that. ME-2 featured in-engine cutscenes which showed you the consequences of your choices/actions all game long. Why is that suddenly, in the finale of a trilogy, a game that really SHOULD be delayed, late, overdone, and coddled, that Bioware couldn't deliver?

I don't think the scope of ME-3 or the ME series is too big that we couldn't see what happened to Rannoch, what happened with the Krogan, see what happened with all the possible LI's, see the ME-2 squaddies (either together or apart), and show us if the cleanup of the war effort is going well (based on EMS in my opinion). 

This. Priority Earth should have been like the suicide mission.

Agreed that everybody lives or dies or anywhere inbetween depending on you like the suicide mission was I was really hopeing for that

[thisisme8]

The Angry One wrote...

Sovereign and Harbinger revel in their roles. They bask in their own superiority.
Sovereign was not his name. Nazara was his name. Sovereign was a name given to him by Saren. Sovereign took that name and declared "I am Sovereign". "Sovereign" denotes power, authority, superiority.
He took that name BECAUSE HE ENJOYED IT.

I don't know how many times I have to say this, but listen to yourself.  You are projecting your emotions onto him.  It's like saying a dog is mad at you, when the truth is, dogs don't get mad.  They don't seek revenge, they don't do anything like that, but we still say things like that.

The reapers don't relish in pain and suffering, they simply attend to their role.

Would you have preferred if Sovereign in ME1 said, "Actually, sorry, but my name is Nazara."  No, he did the same thing the catalyst did in ME3 and took the name given to him by which he would be recognized.

[TookYoCookies]

thisisme8 wrote...



I'm not showing any desperation in defending them.  I think what they do is apalling, but I'm not projecting an evil and diabolical scheme onto them either.  As a matter of fact, their cold, emotionless nature is far scarier than anything that could be considered evil.

 


So... you dont consider genocide performed by something cold and emotionless evil? Are you f*cking retarded?

We're not projecting an "evil" representation on them, their own actions of mass murder and the destruction of countless civiliizations does that all on their own. Just because they dont show remorse for their actions, and believe that their opinions/ideals are immune to fallace doesnt all the sudden justify their actions... It makes them f*cking insane. And you dont take the sh*t that comes out of a crazy person's mouth at face value unless your stupid, Crazy, or its mother...

And last time i checked sheperd wasnt a mommy.

[DRTJR]

thisisme8 wrote...

bleetman wrote...

Not to mention it responds to the previous accusation that it wipes out organic life with a flat out "no".

It actually doesn't.  We found a way - by wiping out organic life? - no.  He's not saying he doesn't wipe out organic life, he's saying that wiping out organic life is not "the way,"  harvesting is.

Which is a horror beyond modern comprehension,

It's been stated the most "Humane" way of creating husks is the Dragon's teeth. which is IMPALING SOMEONE ON A GODDAMN SPIKE.