364 réponses à ce sujet

[KimGulch]

gmboy902 wrote...

That logic was not sound. The "kill you for your own good" logic has been around in some form or another for years, and the only two prominent endings I see in stories with such villains are complete destruction or a giant "f*** you" as the protagonist defeats the enemy despite their warnings.

Mass Effect 3 is the only story I've seen in which the antagonist applies the salvation through destruction logic and the protagonist agrees with it. What makes that more insulting is the fact that Mass Effect 3 is supposed to be an RPG where your decisions shape each aspect of the story.

But the protagonist doesn't agree with it as evidenced by the fact that in no ending (with the exception of those with a really low EMS) is organic life destroyed, and yet in all endings organic life is saved.

[thisisme8]

gmboy902 wrote...

That logic was not sound. The "kill you for your own good" logic has been around in some form or another for years, and the only two prominent endings I see in stories with such villains are complete destruction or a giant "f*** you" as the protagonist defeats the enemy despite their warnings.

Mass Effect 3 is the only story I've seen in which the antagonist applies the salvation through destruction logic and the protagonist agrees with it. What makes that more insulting is the fact that Mass Effect 3 is supposed to be an RPG where your decisions shape each aspect of the story.

I don't see where he agrees with it.  As a matter of fact, in the dialogue with the catalyst, he outright disagrees with it.

[ozthegweat]

I don't get that argument either. In every ending, Shepard stops the cycle.

[dorktainian]

ozthegweat wrote...

I don't get that argument either. In every ending, Shepard stops the cycle.

or does he?  

[KingZayd]

brummyuk19 wrote...

Yes, sound logic. They harvest organic beings into reaper form to preserve them and to stop them from creating a synthetic life that will surpass organics and wipe out ALL organic life, down to the microbes. We may not agree with it, but it is logical.

but it isn't logical. Making the assumption that synthetics will choose to wipe out ALL organic life is illiogical.

[ozthegweat]

dorktainian wrote...

ozthegweat wrote...

I don't get that argument either. In every ending, Shepard stops the cycle.

or does he?  

Well, if you ASSUME DIRECT CONTROL, then you may start the cycle again.

[brummyuk19]

KingZayd wrote...

brummyuk19 wrote...

Yes, sound logic. They harvest organic beings into reaper form to preserve them and to stop them from creating a synthetic life that will surpass organics and wipe out ALL organic life, down to the microbes. We may not agree with it, but it is logical.

but it isn't logical. Making the assumption that synthetics will choose to wipe out ALL organic life is illiogical.

Not if you have witnessed it time and time again.

[KingZayd]

brummyuk19 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

brummyuk19 wrote...

Yes, sound logic. They harvest organic beings into reaper form to preserve them and to stop them from creating a synthetic life that will surpass organics and wipe out ALL organic life, down to the microbes. We may not agree with it, but it is logical.

but it isn't logical. Making the assumption that synthetics will choose to wipe out ALL organic life is illiogical.

Not if you have witnessed it time and time again.

Really? And why hasn't the Starchild destroyed all organic life then? Its had plenty of time to do so. And where did those superior synthetics go?

Modifié par KingZayd, 25 juin 2012 - 11:53 .

[brummyuk19]

KingZayd wrote...

brummyuk19 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

brummyuk19 wrote...

Yes, sound logic. They harvest organic beings into reaper form to preserve them and to stop them from creating a synthetic life that will surpass organics and wipe out ALL organic life, down to the microbes. We may not agree with it, but it is logical.

but it isn't logical. Making the assumption that synthetics will choose to wipe out ALL organic life is illiogical.

Not if you have witnessed it time and time again.

Really? And why hasn't the Starchild destroyed all organic life then? Its had plenty of time to do so. And where did those superior synthetics go?

If you witness machines rebel, and start a war with their creators time and time again, you would logically assume it will happen again and again. It happened in Javik's cycle, it happened in ours with all the rogue AI's we had to fight. I'm not saying the machines won, because the reapers came and started harvesting everything before the synthetics had won over.

[Gorkan86]

KingZayd wrote...

Really? And why hasn't the Starchild destroyed all organic life then? Its had plenty of time to do so. 

It's not their purpose.

KingZayd wrote...


And where did those superior synthetics go?

They are the same place where Zha'til (Javik mentioned them).

[Carlthestrange]

Well as they say, any publicity is good publicity.

[KingZayd]

brummyuk19 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

brummyuk19 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

brummyuk19 wrote...

Yes, sound logic. They harvest organic beings into reaper form to preserve them and to stop them from creating a synthetic life that will surpass organics and wipe out ALL organic life, down to the microbes. We may not agree with it, but it is logical.

but it isn't logical. Making the assumption that synthetics will choose to wipe out ALL organic life is illiogical.

Not if you have witnessed it time and time again.

Really? And why hasn't the Starchild destroyed all organic life then? Its had plenty of time to do so. And where did those superior synthetics go?

If you witness machines rebel, and start a war with their creators time and time again, you would logically assume it will happen again and again. It happened in Javik's cycle, it happened in ours with all the rogue AI's we had to fight. I'm not saying the machines won, because the reapers came and started harvesting everything before the synthetics had won over.

Protheans destroyed the zha'til, (who only turned on organics because of the Reapers). It happened in ours (one of those times happening because of the Reapers) and we won too. Therefore, by the same logic, organics will always destroy synthetics. 

If the machines never won, then the Starchild could never have seen all organic life being wiped out time and time again.

There's also the problem that the simulatenous existence of both organic life and the Starchild contradict his statement about synthetics always wiping out organics.

[KingZayd]

Gorkan86 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Really? And why hasn't the Starchild destroyed all organic life then? Its had plenty of time to do so. 

It's not their purpose.

Neither is it the purpose of other synthetics.

Gorkan86 wrote... 

KingZayd wrote...


And where did those superior synthetics go?

They are the same place where Zha'til (Javik mentioned them).

"When the Reapers arrived, they subjugated the AIs, known as zha'til, who then seized control of the bodies of their masters and altered their genetic material at the deepest level, transforming the zha into synthetic monsters and their offspring into slaves. The zha'til proceeded to multiply into "mechanical swarms" that "blotted out the sky". With no other recourse, the Protheans sent the star of the zha's home system into supernova, destroying the zha'til entirely. "

[Gorkan86]

KingZayd wrote...

Neither is it the purpose of other synthetics.

We know the purpose of reapers. 
They created specifically to prevent the total destruction of organic life by syntetics. So once were evil synthetics who wanted to destroy all organic life. It could happen again or maybe not, but the machine is running. Shepard has to turn it off.

KingZayd wrote...

"When the Reapers arrived, they subjugated the AIs, known as zha'til, who then seized control of the bodies of their masters and altered their genetic material at the deepest level, transforming the zha into synthetic monsters and their offspring into slaves. The zha'til proceeded to multiply into "mechanical swarms" that "blotted out the sky". With no other recourse, the Protheans sent the star of the zha's home system into supernova, destroying the zha'til entirely. "

Simply "destroyed" would enough.

Modifié par Gorkan86, 25 juin 2012 - 12:36 .

[KimGulch]

The reasoning behind synthetics wanting to eliminate organics (at least as I see it) is that when war (which according to historical precedent is inevitable at some point) breaks out between synthetics and organics, machine logic will see the solution to be thus:
-War needs to be stopped
-The cause of war is organics
-Therefore, by eliminating organics you prevent war
-And if you want to eliminate all war, you need to eliminate all organics