364 réponses à ce sujet

[TemplePhoenix]

Grimwick wrote...

Unsubstantiated to a very large degree. We see people getting killed. Killed. Dead. Kablamo. People turned into husks, buildings obliterated, people liquified.

That is not preservation by any means. 

Which brings up another thing.

EVEN IF the Catalyst was telling the truth, and was right about synthetic vs organic being inevitable and life needing to be preserved in Reaper form... he's not, but EVEN IF...

the way in which this process comes about has been shown to be the most horrific, traumatic method imaginable... indoctrination... madness... husks... biomechanical bodyhorror...

THAT'S a reason to give Starkid and his pets a good kicking, even if nothing else is.

[The Revolut]

iAFKinMassEffect3 wrote...

6 pages and you're no where closer explaining the sound logic you see.

The logic changes every time you question it, too.

[Barict78]

The Revolut wrote...

brummyuk19 wrote...

I am only argueing that the star childs knowledge of what might happen leads him to believe that the logical thing to do is step in and STOP organics from making synthetics that will wipe out all life. That is logical to assume. May not be the right thing to do, but there you have it.

Are you serious?

You can't be.

really what MIGHT happen justifys mass Genocide?? Really? so cuz u might kill someone someday i think ill go ahead and report u and have u carted off to jail....

[bucyrus5000]

XqctaX wrote...

well. the ending will never be fixed unless star child i taken out compleatly, imho

ditto
The Catalyst needs to be removed or utterly rewritten. The "choices" need to be removed or rewritten/wildly expanded. There are so many things wrong with the stock ending I don't know where to begin; on a literary level the ending would get an F in a middle school creative writing class, on a business level the ending is a violation of product guarantees,on a logical level the ending made no sense.

If you want to challenge my view, please read the thousands of pages and millions of posts critisising the ending. Many writing experts (college English professors & literature professors, professional editors, literary historians, game industry insiders) have written critiques of ME3 ending that explain in detail, and showing agreement with eachother, the many problems.

Modifié par bucyrus5000, 24 juin 2012 - 10:13 .

[Erixxxx]

The Revolut wrote...

brummyuk19 wrote...

I am only argueing that the star childs knowledge of what might happen leads him to believe that the logical thing to do is step in and STOP organics from making synthetics that will wipe out all life. That is logical to assume. May not be the right thing to do, but there you have it.

Are you serious?

You can't be.

You do not know what the Catalyst knows. The Catalyst does not know what you know. If he has witnessed synthetics attempting to kill organics 100% of the times, then he's going to assume it will happen again.

[covertdrizzt]

sound logic? Op I think you need to watch the ending again and read one of the dozens of threads disproving his logic. I'm not going repost them.

[Barict78]

TemplePhoenix wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

Unsubstantiated to a very large degree. We see people getting killed. Killed. Dead. Kablamo. People turned into husks, buildings obliterated, people liquified.

That is not preservation by any means. 

Which brings up another thing.

EVEN IF the Catalyst was telling the truth, and was right about synthetic vs organic being inevitable and life needing to be preserved in Reaper form... he's not, but EVEN IF...

the way in which this process comes about has been shown to be the most horrific, traumatic method imaginable... indoctrination... madness... husks... biomechanical bodyhorror...

THAT'S a reason to give Starkid and his pets a good kicking, even if nothing else is.

Exactly up until this point all of us Hated the reapers and all they did but becuz some random StarBrat says hes Acending you you take his word for it and go with it even tho every evidence uve ever seen points to the contrary...

[Kreid]

Saying the Catalyst's logic isn't sound because it's based on probability is a very weak argument against it, organics developing tools, technology and eventually A.I. is presented pretty much as an universal constant in the series, A.I. evolves several magnitudes faster than organics, that at some point in time a superintelligence strong enough to wipe all organic life will emerge is so likely that it's bordering fact.

Modifié par Creid-X, 24 juin 2012 - 10:16 .

[ebauman75]

If we take the Star Child's dialogue as truth, is destruction of the reapers the "right/best" ending? Controlling the reapers would only lead to greater conflict. (Who decides who gets to control them?) Destruction of the reapers only leads to synthetics killing organics, somewhere down the road. Synthesis then becomes the best answer. There is no longer any synthetic vs organic conflict, and no threat of whoever has control of the reapers wiping out your species because someone got pissy, or the reapers slipping off their leash.

[Erixxxx]

TemplePhoenix wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

Unsubstantiated to a very large degree. We see people getting killed. Killed. Dead. Kablamo. People turned into husks, buildings obliterated, people liquified.

That is not preservation by any means. 

Which brings up another thing.

EVEN IF the Catalyst was telling the truth, and was right about synthetic vs organic being inevitable and life needing to be preserved in Reaper form... he's not, but EVEN IF...

the way in which this process comes about has been shown to be the most horrific, traumatic method imaginable... indoctrination... madness... husks... biomechanical bodyhorror...

THAT'S a reason to give Starkid and his pets a good kicking, even if nothing else is.

He might not care about such things. To him the goal clearly justifies the means.

[The Revolut]

Erixxxx wrote...

The Revolut wrote...

brummyuk19 wrote...

I am only argueing that the star childs knowledge of what might happen leads him to believe that the logical thing to do is step in and STOP organics from making synthetics that will wipe out all life. That is logical to assume. May not be the right thing to do, but there you have it.

Are you serious?

You can't be.

You do not know what the Catalyst knows. The Catalyst does not know what you know. If he has witnessed synthetics attempting to kill organics 100% of the times, then he's going to assume it will happen again.

Are you serious? This is what we've come down to?

The cycle was OF REAPER DESIGN. Of course the Catalyst is going to witness synthetics attempting to kill organics 100% of the time. If you have zero deviation from said cycle, as has been the case for billions of years, you have literally NO variable to work with to prove or deny said logic.

[Barict78]

Erixxxx wrote...

The Revolut wrote...

brummyuk19 wrote...

I am only argueing that the star childs knowledge of what might happen leads him to believe that the logical thing to do is step in and STOP organics from making synthetics that will wipe out all life. That is logical to assume. May not be the right thing to do, but there you have it.

Are you serious?

You can't be.

You do not know what the Catalyst knows. The Catalyst does not know what you know. If he has witnessed synthetics attempting to kill organics 100% of the times, then he's going to assume it will happen again.

If he KNEW that why wouldnt he say JUST THAT ? ? can u think of ANY good reason he would with hold this knowledege? cuz if he told us this then it would lend weight to his statements so why would he not just say that....

[Grimwick]

Erixxxx wrote...

TemplePhoenix wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

Unsubstantiated to a very large degree. We see people getting killed. Killed. Dead. Kablamo. People turned into husks, buildings obliterated, people liquified.

That is not preservation by any means. 

Which brings up another thing.

EVEN IF the Catalyst was telling the truth, and was right about synthetic vs organic being inevitable and life needing to be preserved in Reaper form... he's not, but EVEN IF...

the way in which this process comes about has been shown to be the most horrific, traumatic method imaginable... indoctrination... madness... husks... biomechanical bodyhorror...

THAT'S a reason to give Starkid and his pets a good kicking, even if nothing else is.

He might not care about such things. To him the goal clearly justifies the means.

It doesn't matter what the SC thinks because he obviously thinks he's right.

It's whether he makes any sense and whether WE should think the same way too.

[Barict78]

ebauman75 wrote...

If we take the Star Child's dialogue as truth, is destruction of the reapers the "right/best" ending? Controlling the reapers would only lead to greater conflict. (Who decides who gets to control them?) Destruction of the reapers only leads to synthetics killing organics, somewhere down the road. Synthesis then becomes the best answer. There is no longer any synthetic vs organic conflict, and no threat of whoever has control of the reapers wiping out your species because someone got pissy, or the reapers slipping off their leash.

And i think u hit the nail on the head kinda .... BW clearly wants us to pik Synthesis so it makes all other options look worse by comparison and its prob why we got the whole starbrat faulty logic bs too . to shove their Adam and Eve Synthesis down our throats

[Mazebook]

Grimwick wrote...

maaaze wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

anyone who defends the old'' we're saving organics by killing organics to save them from synthetics'' garbage needs a serious lie down.

No,
this is not the arguement of the catalyst.

Please get you facts straight... the magic word is ascending...

Then we get to the point where we realise: THEY AREN'T ASCENDING ANYONE!

From what we see ascension = liquification = death.

Therefore it's genocide in every respect, not ascension.

Hence the original statement is true in that the SC is killing organics to stop organics being killed by synthetics.

Then we get to point where we realise : Its all a question of perspective.

Ascension = liquifing = hive mind = living forever in a new form of being.

[The Revolut]

maaaze wrote...

Then we get to point where we realise : Its all a question of perspective.

Ascension = liquifing = hive mind = living forever in a new form of being.

This is truly astounding.

[ebauman75]

Barict78 wrote...

ebauman75 wrote...

If we take the Star Child's dialogue as truth, is destruction of the reapers the "right/best" ending? Controlling the reapers would only lead to greater conflict. (Who decides who gets to control them?) Destruction of the reapers only leads to synthetics killing organics, somewhere down the road. Synthesis then becomes the best answer. There is no longer any synthetic vs organic conflict, and no threat of whoever has control of the reapers wiping out your species because someone got pissy, or the reapers slipping off their leash.

And i think u hit the nail on the head kinda .... BW clearly wants us to pik Synthesis so it makes all other options look worse by comparison and its prob why we got the whole starbrat faulty logic bs too . to shove their Adam and Eve Synthesis down our throats

and if they REALLY wanted to make our paragon vs renegade decisions matter, we would have the option to throw Anderson's body in the synthesis stream (renegade) or Anderson pushes Shepard out of the way and sacrifices himself to the synthesis stream (paragon), either way leaving room for a sequel or at least a cleaner ending movie on this one

[Barict78]

maaaze wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

maaaze wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

anyone who defends the old'' we're saving organics by killing organics to save them from synthetics'' garbage needs a serious lie down.

No,
this is not the arguement of the catalyst.

Please get you facts straight... the magic word is ascending...

Then we get to the point where we realise: THEY AREN'T ASCENDING ANYONE!

From what we see ascension = liquification = death.

Therefore it's genocide in every respect, not ascension.

Hence the original statement is true in that the SC is killing organics to stop organics being killed by synthetics.

Then we get to point where we realise : Its all a question of perspective.

Ascension = liquifing = hive mind = living forever in a new form of being.

well hell if i look at it the right way i may convince myself that Heroin is a great thing and sticking needles in my veins is awesome. But we all know its not given what weve seen. and what weve seen/been told about the reapers so far is that they slaughter us melt us down or turn us to husks . thats not any kind of ascention to me and im sorry i dont see that as a good thing.

[Erixxxx]

The Revolut wrote...

Are you serious? This is what we've come down to?

The cycle was OF REAPER DESIGN. Of course the Catalyst is going to witness synthetics attempting to kill organics 100% of the time. If you have zero deviation from said cycle, as has been the case for billions of years, you have literally NO variable to work with to prove or deny said logic.

Whether you choose to believe it or not, it is directly stated in the game that members of the various species are "uploaded" to the Reapers, and thus their culture state of being is preserved. To the Catalyst, that would be the same as "living". In his eyes he does preserve civilizations. Other synthetics simply wipe them out. We do not see it that way. Why would we? We want to live on as we are. But the Catalyst is not us, and we're not the Catalyst. Is it so hard to understand that in some story, somewhere, there are actually beings with other moral standpoints and other logics than what we have?

[Barict78]

ebauman75 wrote...

Barict78 wrote...

ebauman75 wrote...

If we take the Star Child's dialogue as truth, is destruction of the reapers the "right/best" ending? Controlling the reapers would only lead to greater conflict. (Who decides who gets to control them?) Destruction of the reapers only leads to synthetics killing organics, somewhere down the road. Synthesis then becomes the best answer. There is no longer any synthetic vs organic conflict, and no threat of whoever has control of the reapers wiping out your species because someone got pissy, or the reapers slipping off their leash.

And i think u hit the nail on the head kinda .... BW clearly wants us to pik Synthesis so it makes all other options look worse by comparison and its prob why we got the whole starbrat faulty logic bs too . to shove their Adam and Eve Synthesis down our throats

and if they REALLY wanted to make our paragon vs renegade decisions matter, we would have the option to throw Anderson's body in the synthesis stream (renegade) or Anderson pushes Shepard out of the way and sacrifices himself to the synthesis stream (paragon), either way leaving room for a sequel or at least a cleaner ending movie on this one

u just showed more foresight and genius in one paragreph than there is in the whole ending of the game, lol and that wulda at least made the choices way more interesting

[Mazebook]

The Revolut wrote...

iAFKinMassEffect3 wrote...

6 pages and you're no where closer explaining the sound logic you see.

The logic changes every time you question it, too.

I would say because one side is to stubborn and to nearsighted to actually engange the arguments instead of repeatedly bring up refuted claims.

[Erixxxx]

The Revolut wrote...

maaaze wrote...

Then we get to point where we realise : Its all a question of perspective.

Ascension = liquifing = hive mind = living forever in a new form of being.

This is truly astounding.

Remember: Highly technologically advanced species might have developed things that might seem like magic to others. Imagine showing a caveman a TV and a remote control. What would he think you were doing with that remote if not creating magic?

[Erixxxx]

Barict78 wrote...

ebauman75 wrote...

If we take the Star Child's dialogue as truth, is destruction of the reapers the "right/best" ending? Controlling the reapers would only lead to greater conflict. (Who decides who gets to control them?) Destruction of the reapers only leads to synthetics killing organics, somewhere down the road. Synthesis then becomes the best answer. There is no longer any synthetic vs organic conflict, and no threat of whoever has control of the reapers wiping out your species because someone got pissy, or the reapers slipping off their leash.

And i think u hit the nail on the head kinda .... BW clearly wants us to pik Synthesis so it makes all other options look worse by comparison and its prob why we got the whole starbrat faulty logic bs too . to shove their Adam and Eve Synthesis down our throats

If they "wanted" us to go somewhere specific, they wouldn't have created the other choices at all.

[Grimwick]

maaaze wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

maaaze wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

anyone who defends the old'' we're saving organics by killing organics to save them from synthetics'' garbage needs a serious lie down.

No,
this is not the arguement of the catalyst.

Please get you facts straight... the magic word is ascending...

Then we get to the point where we realise: THEY AREN'T ASCENDING ANYONE!

From what we see ascension = liquification = death.

Therefore it's genocide in every respect, not ascension.

Hence the original statement is true in that the SC is killing organics to stop organics being killed by synthetics.

Then we get to point where we realise : Its all a question of perspective.

Ascension = liquifing = hive mind = living forever in a new form of being.

Unsubstantiated evidence of hive mind - more evidence against than for.

They don't live forever as they can die. 

Many millions of people were killed without liquification, I don't see how being vaporised is ascension...

Perspective means absolutely nothing.

[Barict78]

Erixxxx wrote...

The Revolut wrote...

Are you serious? This is what we've come down to?

The cycle was OF REAPER DESIGN. Of course the Catalyst is going to witness synthetics attempting to kill organics 100% of the time. If you have zero deviation from said cycle, as has been the case for billions of years, you have literally NO variable to work with to prove or deny said logic.

Whether you choose to believe it or not, it is directly stated in the game that members of the various species are "uploaded" to the Reapers, and thus their culture state of being is preserved. To the Catalyst, that would be the same as "living". In his eyes he does preserve civilizations. Other synthetics simply wipe them out. We do not see it that way. Why would we? We want to live on as we are. But the Catalyst is not us, and we're not the Catalyst. Is it so hard to understand that in some story, somewhere, there are actually beings with other moral standpoints and other logics than what we have?

Ur missing his point which is basically "if we alyways do what we do < well always get what we got"