364 réponses à ce sujet

[The Revolut]

Erixxxx wrote...

Whether you choose to believe it or not, it is directly stated in the game that members of the various species are "uploaded" to the Reapers, and thus their culture state of being is preserved. To the Catalyst, that would be the same as "living". In his eyes he does preserve civilizations. Other synthetics simply wipe them out. We do not see it that way. Why would we? We want to live on as we are. But the Catalyst is not us, and we're not the Catalyst. Is it so hard to understand that in some story, somewhere, there are actually beings with other moral standpoints and other logics than what we have?

Jesus.

This is possibly the worst argument I've ever seen, coupled with the worst non-sequitur. You're pointing to the fact that I think the Catalyst has zero logic to reinforce the thought that I can't understand that other viewpoints exist?

[Erixxxx]

Barict78 wrote...

Erixxxx wrote...

The Revolut wrote...

brummyuk19 wrote...

I am only argueing that the star childs knowledge of what might happen leads him to believe that the logical thing to do is step in and STOP organics from making synthetics that will wipe out all life. That is logical to assume. May not be the right thing to do, but there you have it.

Are you serious?

You can't be.

You do not know what the Catalyst knows. The Catalyst does not know what you know. If he has witnessed synthetics attempting to kill organics 100% of the times, then he's going to assume it will happen again.

If he KNEW that why wouldnt he say JUST THAT ? ? can u think of ANY good reason he would with hold this knowledege? cuz if he told us this then it would lend weight to his statements so why would he not just say that....

He does say so. Synthetics will eventually rise up against their creators. "Without us, synthetics will destroy all organics." Play the game again if you don't believe me. Or look it up on youtube.

[Mazebook]

The Revolut wrote...

maaaze wrote...

Then we get to point where we realise : Its all a question of perspective.

Ascension = liquifing = hive mind = living forever in a new form of being.

This is truly astounding.

is there hope?!

...could there be people finally understanding that motivations and goals differ from being to being.

[Barict78]

Erixxxx wrote...

Barict78 wrote...

ebauman75 wrote...

If we take the Star Child's dialogue as truth, is destruction of the reapers the "right/best" ending? Controlling the reapers would only lead to greater conflict. (Who decides who gets to control them?) Destruction of the reapers only leads to synthetics killing organics, somewhere down the road. Synthesis then becomes the best answer. There is no longer any synthetic vs organic conflict, and no threat of whoever has control of the reapers wiping out your species because someone got pissy, or the reapers slipping off their leash.

And i think u hit the nail on the head kinda .... BW clearly wants us to pik Synthesis so it makes all other options look worse by comparison and its prob why we got the whole starbrat faulty logic bs too . to shove their Adam and Eve Synthesis down our throats

If they "wanted" us to go somewhere specific, they wouldn't have created the other choices at all.

Then why is synthesis only available under certain circumstances>? cuz BW views it as the "best" ending. and its not as if we got 15 other choices.... oh ya i forgot....

[The Revolut]

Erixxxx wrote...

Remember: Highly technologically advanced species might have developed things that might seem like magic to others. Imagine showing a caveman a TV and a remote control. What would he think you were doing with that remote if not creating magic?

Remember: we can easily explain our technological advancements to said cavemen.

Mind explaining how our grey goo magically preserves out f*cking culture--our history?

[The Revolut]

maaaze wrote...

is there hope?!

...could there be people finally understanding that motivations and goals differ from being to being.

No, that was me revelling in the fact that you people couldn't argue your way out of an open hallway.

[Barict78]

maaaze wrote...

The Revolut wrote...

maaaze wrote...

Then we get to point where we realise : Its all a question of perspective.

Ascension = liquifing = hive mind = living forever in a new form of being.

This is truly astounding.

is there hope?!

...could there be people finally understanding that motivations and goals differ from being to being.

no hes amazed that u actually think that.....  and i think honestly ur just arguing to argue i find it hard to believ u think "heaven" is being a Husk or being vaporized or being turned to goo to fuel a space lobster. even if some form of conciousness survives its not what Humans want so of course they will fight against it everytime. i know i would . ill decide my own fate thank u very much , i wont have some glowing starbaby tell me its ok ur ascending now...   wana talk about ascention go watch SG-1 thats what ascention would look/be like

[Grimwick]

Erixxxx wrote...

The Revolut wrote...

maaaze wrote...

Then we get to point where we realise : Its all a question of perspective.

Ascension = liquifing = hive mind = living forever in a new form of being.

This is truly astounding.

Remember: Highly technologically advanced species might have developed things that might seem like magic to others. Imagine showing a caveman a TV and a remote control. What would he think you were doing with that remote if not creating magic?

Non-argument.

Pure speculation based on no evidence.

It also doesn't support the idea that the many people who were blown up or vaporised were 'ascended'.

Also, don't foget this is sci-fi and the solutions and technology are supposed to be shown and/or explained.

[Barict78]

Erixxxx wrote...

Barict78 wrote...

Erixxxx wrote...

The Revolut wrote...

brummyuk19 wrote...

I am only argueing that the star childs knowledge of what might happen leads him to believe that the logical thing to do is step in and STOP organics from making synthetics that will wipe out all life. That is logical to assume. May not be the right thing to do, but there you have it.

Are you serious?

You can't be.

You do not know what the Catalyst knows. The Catalyst does not know what you know. If he has witnessed synthetics attempting to kill organics 100% of the times, then he's going to assume it will happen again.

If he KNEW that why wouldnt he say JUST THAT ? ? can u think of ANY good reason he would with hold this knowledege? cuz if he told us this then it would lend weight to his statements so why would he not just say that....

He does say so. Synthetics will eventually rise up against their creators. "Without us, synthetics will destroy all organics." Play the game again if you don't believe me. Or look it up on youtube.

OMFG just cuz he says it its fact? nonono give me proof. or as ppl on here say "link or it didnt happen"

[Mazebook]

Grimwick wrote...

maaaze wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

maaaze wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

anyone who defends the old'' we're saving organics by killing organics to save them from synthetics'' garbage needs a serious lie down.

No,
this is not the arguement of the catalyst.

Please get you facts straight... the magic word is ascending...

Then we get to the point where we realise: THEY AREN'T ASCENDING ANYONE!

From what we see ascension = liquification = death.

Therefore it's genocide in every respect, not ascension.

Hence the original statement is true in that the SC is killing organics to stop organics being killed by synthetics.

Then we get to point where we realise : Its all a question of perspective.

Ascension = liquifing = hive mind = living forever in a new form of being.

Unsubstantiated evidence of hive mind - more evidence against than for.

They don't live forever as they can die. 

Many millions of people were killed without liquification, I don't see how being vaporised is ascension...

Perspective means absolutely nothing.

Perspective means absolutely nothing?

okay...then there is absolutly no sense in arguing with you anymore... because everything is just the way you want it to be. there is only one side to a story. Only one way to look at things!

Modifié par maaaze, 24 juin 2012 - 10:38 .

[Erixxxx]

ebauman75 wrote...

and if they REALLY wanted to make our paragon vs renegade decisions matter, we would have the option to throw Anderson's body in the synthesis stream (renegade) or Anderson pushes Shepard out of the way and sacrifices himself to the synthesis stream (paragon), either way leaving room for a sequel or at least a cleaner ending movie on this one

Shepard was part synthetic, Anderson not so much. Which was the whole point. The sample needed to be a combination of both.

[The Revolut]

maaaze wrote...

Perspective means absolutely nothing?

okay...then there is absolutly no sense in arguing with you anymore... because everything is just the way you want it to be. there are only one side to a story. Everytime!

Did you actually care to read what Grim wrote?

If you had, you'd notice that the argument was debating absolutes NOT perspectives.

[Cadeym]

The Catalyst may have witnessed synthetics killing organics in several cycles. But you have to remember that the cycles are meant to happen prior to the organics creating the AI's.

The Protheans were winning the war vs. the Synthetics, ergo the creation of synthetics won't always result in the total annihilation of the organic races.
The Geth were only monitoring the organics prior to Sovereign telling the heretics to start killing people.

Don't you find it funny that to describe logic, you will need to use the word fact which in itself must first become irrefutable. So do tell me, what are the irrefutable facts that the Catalyst have presented us with?


I hereby claim that god exists.. but i'm not going to provide you with any proof that could possibly confirm this statement... my logic is as sound as the Catalyst's

Modifié par Mouseraider, 24 juin 2012 - 10:40 .

[Grimwick]

maaaze wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

maaaze wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

maaaze wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

anyone who defends the old'' we're saving organics by killing organics to save them from synthetics'' garbage needs a serious lie down.

No,
this is not the arguement of the catalyst.

Please get you facts straight... the magic word is ascending...

Then we get to the point where we realise: THEY AREN'T ASCENDING ANYONE!

From what we see ascension = liquification = death.

Therefore it's genocide in every respect, not ascension.

Hence the original statement is true in that the SC is killing organics to stop organics being killed by synthetics.

Then we get to point where we realise : Its all a question of perspective.

Ascension = liquifing = hive mind = living forever in a new form of being.

Unsubstantiated evidence of hive mind - more evidence against than for.

They don't live forever as they can die. 

Many millions of people were killed without liquification, I don't see how being vaporised is ascension...

Perspective means absolutely nothing.

Perspective means absolutely nothing?

okay...then there is absolutly no sense in arguing with you anymore... because everything is just the way you want it to be. there are only one side to a story. Everytime!

No. I mean that trying to justify a logical solution through 'perspective' makes no sense. just because the reapers perceive themselves as being correct doesn't make it so.

I'd also like to see your counters to my other points. If they can be countered...

[Johanna]

 I didn't find it difficult to understand.  I just thought it was dumb.

Oh well.

[Barict78]

Erixxxx wrote...

ebauman75 wrote...

and if they REALLY wanted to make our paragon vs renegade decisions matter, we would have the option to throw Anderson's body in the synthesis stream (renegade) or Anderson pushes Shepard out of the way and sacrifices himself to the synthesis stream (paragon), either way leaving room for a sequel or at least a cleaner ending movie on this one

Shepard was part synthetic, Anderson not so much. Which was the whole point. The sample needed to be a combination of both.

Well that woulda been a good way to recycle Kai Lengs body then....

[The Revolut]

This thread is a monument to all things wrong with Mass Effect 3.

[ebauman75]

Erixxxx wrote...

ebauman75 wrote...

and if they REALLY wanted to make our paragon vs renegade decisions matter, we would have the option to throw Anderson's body in the synthesis stream (renegade) or Anderson pushes Shepard out of the way and sacrifices himself to the synthesis stream (paragon), either way leaving room for a sequel or at least a cleaner ending movie on this one

Shepard was part synthetic, Anderson not so much. Which was the whole point. The sample needed to be a combination of both.

Forgot about that part... Maybe Illusive Man instead of Anderson in my previous post.

[Barict78]

Mouseraider wrote...

The Catalyst may have witnessed synthetics killing organics in several cycles. But you have to remember that the cycles are meant to happen prior to the organics creating the AI's.

The Protheans were winning the war vs. the Synthetics, ergo the creation of synthetics won't always result in the total annihilation of the organic races.
The Geth were only monitoring the organics prior to Sovereign telling the heretics to start killing people.

Don't you find it funny that to describe logic, you will need to use the word fact which in itself must first become irrefutable. So do tell me, what are the irrefutable facts that the Catalyst have presented us with?


I hereby claim that god exists.. but i'm not going to provide you with any proof that could possibly confirm this statement... my logic is as sound as the Catalyst's

exactly as i said before and as anyone on here would say to me if i up and said" Macs redoing the whole ending and we get 16 choices now!" if i said that the very 1st thing they would say is "link or it didnt happen" so why cant people apply this to the game as well? tell the starbrat "link or it didnt happen" and make him PROVE synthetics will revolt

[thisisme8]

I love the irony in heated debates about logic.

[The Revolut]

thisisme8 wrote...

I love the irony in heated debates about logic.

Thanks for your metalogical insights.

[Erixxxx]

The Revolut wrote...

Remember: we can easily explain our technological advancements to said cavemen.

Mind explaining how our grey goo magically preserves out f*cking culture--our history?

Don't know. Ask Bioware.

However, unlike some people here I actually take the game at face value. It has been stated in both ME2 and ME3 that people are preserved/uploaded/transcended into Reaper form. If you choose to ignore these things, then that is your perogative. But then don't come afterwards and say that something else doesn't make sense just because it's based on those other things to be true.

People are uploaded into a Reaper. May be a horrible experience with lots of pain involved, but it still happens. And they somehow exist in that form afterwards. To a computer program that would be equal living since they still exist. Ergo, the Catalyst thinks he's doing organics a favour by harvesting and preserving them in order for them to avoid being completely wiped out by organics.

[The Revolut]

Erixxxx wrote...

Don't know. Ask Bioware.

However, unlike some people here I actually take the game at face value. It has been stated in both ME2 and ME3 that people are preserved/uploaded/transcended into Reaper form. If you choose to ignore these things, then that is your perogative. But then don't come afterwards and say that something else doesn't make sense just because it's based on those other things to be true.

People are uploaded into a Reaper. May be a horrible experience with lots of pain involved, but it still happens. And they somehow exist in that form afterwards. To a computer program that would be equal living since they still exist. Ergo, the Catalyst thinks he's doing organics a favour by harvesting and preserving them in order for them to avoid being completely wiped out by organics.

Cherrypicking our arguments, I see.

This is still a terrible argument and there still is no substantiation for it.

[Jadebaby]

Pretty much unless it's IT, then yea... It stinks. That's not because Shepard dies or because I didn't like how TIM went out. It's that shiney white kid.