364 réponses à ce sujet

[Jadebaby]

The Revolut wrote...

This thread is a monument to all things wrong with Mass Effect 3.

done.

[Mazebook]

The Revolut wrote...

maaaze wrote...

is there hope?!

...could there be people finally understanding that motivations and goals differ from being to being.

No, that was me revelling in the fact that you people couldn't argue your way out of an open hallway.

oh the irony....

[Barict78]

maaaze wrote...

The Revolut wrote...

maaaze wrote...

is there hope?!

...could there be people finally understanding that motivations and goals differ from being to being.

No, that was me revelling in the fact that you people couldn't argue your way out of an open hallway.

oh the irony....

Just becuz u THINK ur right and u THINK hes wrong doesnt make it ironic . becuz  really no one but you thinks ur right so how is it funny that he realizes this and calls u out on it. i mean did you even bother to read any of his arguments or points? cuz if u did ud see that they made way more sense than the counter points ppl were trying to push. and in all cases they ended up just giving up

Modifié par Barict78, 24 juin 2012 - 11:04 .

[Erixxxx]

Grimwick wrote...

Non-argument.

Pure speculation based on no evidence.

It also doesn't support the idea that the many people who were blown up or vaporised were 'ascended'.

What would this matter to a computer? The civilization would still be preserved by the ones it did "ascend".

Also, don't foget this is sci-fi and the solutions and technology are supposed to be shown and/or explained.

Not all sci-fi will ever follow the "true" path. Nothing ever will.

[The Revolut]

maaaze wrote...

The Revolut wrote...

maaaze wrote...

is there hope?!

...could there be people finally understanding that motivations and goals differ from being to being.

No, that was me revelling in the fact that you people couldn't argue your way out of an open hallway.

oh the irony....

Giggle all you'd like. Fact of the matter is, you look at the substantiation of the arguments given between yourself and I and you'll see a distinct difference in quality.

[thisisme8]

Grimwick wrote...

Also, don't foget this is sci-fi and the solutions and technology are supposed to be shown and/or explained.

Unless the solutions and technology are purposefully hidden to add the the terror of the advesary, which is a very effective storytelling tool.

[Grimwick]

[quote]Erixxxx wrote...

[quote]Grimwick wrote...

Non-argument.

Pure speculation based on no evidence.

It also doesn't support the idea that the many people who were blown up or vaporised were 'ascended'.[/quote]

What would this matter to a computer? The civilization would still be preserved by the ones it did "ascend".[/quote]

Again, a non-argument. The computer's opinion is irrelevant. You are still committing genocide and are therefore killing organics to solve the problem of killing organics.

[quote][quote]Also, don't foget this is sci-fi and the solutions and technology are supposed to be shown and/or explained.

[/quote]

Not all sci-fi will ever follow the "true" path. Nothing ever will.[/quote][/quote]

Mostly a side argument here so it doesn't really matter. It simply makes it very very poor writing.

[Grimwick]

thisisme8 wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

Also, don't foget this is sci-fi and the solutions and technology are supposed to be shown and/or explained.

Unless the solutions and technology are purposefully hidden to add the the terror of the advesary, which is a very effective storytelling tool.

That doesn't work in this case. It just makes the whole thing non-sensical.

[Erixxxx]

Grimwick wrote...

No. I mean that trying to justify a logical solution through 'perspective' makes no sense. just because the reapers perceive themselves as being correct doesn't make it so.

Fact for us: We're correct, and they're wrong.

Fact for them: They're correct, and we're wrong.


There's no changing this.

[Erixxxx]

Grimwick wrote...

Again, a non-argument. The computer's opinion is irrelevant. You are still committing genocide and are therefore killing organics to solve the problem of killing organics.

The computer's opinion is relevant in order to understand why it does the things it do. Why does it commit genocide for example? In order to answer that, we need to look at the computer's logic, not our own.

[Grimwick]

Erixxxx wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

No. I mean that trying to justify a logical solution through 'perspective' makes no sense. just because the reapers perceive themselves as being correct doesn't make it so.

Fact for us: We're correct, and they're wrong.

Fact for them: They're correct, and we're wrong.


There's no changing this.

No, no, no. that makes no sense. you cannot have two contradicting facts because that breaks the definition of the word fact. Nor can fact be influenced by opinion.

A better example would be:

Fact: Reapers make a logical fallacy.

Reapers think: They are correct.

Humans think: We are correct.

See? Fixed.

[Grimwick]

Erixxxx wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

Again, a non-argument. The computer's opinion is irrelevant. You are still committing genocide and are therefore killing organics to solve the problem of killing organics.

The computer's opinion is relevant in order to understand why it does the things it do. Why does it commit genocide for example? In order to answer that, we need to look at the computer's logic, not our own.

The computer's logic is wrong.

Appeal to probability makes the SC's arguments illogical. That is FACT and cannot be argued against nor changed.

[Erixxxx]

The Revolut wrote...

Cherrypicking our arguments, I see.

This is still a terrible argument and there still is no substantiation for it.

Just as much as you're cherrypicking which things from the game you believe in order to attempt to make your arguments true.

[thisisme8]

The Revolut wrote...

brummyuk19 wrote...

I am not saying the star child is right, I am saying his logic is sound from the infomation he has. You misunderstand me. I agree that there is a far better way to prevent the cycle than killing trillions, but your view point would change had you of seen synthetics slaughtering organics, had you of witnessed it yourself.

Dear God.

Ignorance does not excuse unsound logic, or the absence of such.

I'm a little late, so go easy on me, but how can that be unsound logic when history (at least up to the point where he came to that conclusion) proved him right.  Look at when Shepard says the "Geth are better than this," and Legion responds with something along the lines of "empirical evidence says we are not."

[Erixxxx]

Grimwick wrote...

No, no, no. that makes no sense. you cannot have two contradicting facts because that breaks the definition of the word fact. Nor can fact be influenced by opinion.

A better example would be:

Fact: Reapers make a logical fallacy.

Reapers think: They are correct.

Humans think: We are correct.

See? Fixed.

Assuming that they do tell the truth about uploading people and everything, then by what logic do you decide that the Reapers' facts are wrong?

[thisisme8]

Grimwick wrote...

thisisme8 wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

Also, don't foget this is sci-fi and the solutions and technology are supposed to be shown and/or explained.

Unless the solutions and technology are purposefully hidden to add the the terror of the advesary, which is a very effective storytelling tool.

That doesn't work in this case. It just makes the whole thing non-sensical.

I don't think it does.  It makes the reapers more terrifying because we don't understand them.

Also, you keep going on about genocide, which they do perform, but at the same time, they are harvesting the organics to preserve them.   Whether or not the conciousness of the organics carries over is irrelevant to a computer since the DNA survives, thus the species survives.

[Mazebook]

Grimwick wrote...

maaaze wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

maaaze wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

maaaze wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

anyone who defends the old'' we're saving organics by killing organics to save them from synthetics'' garbage needs a serious lie down.

No,
this is not the arguement of the catalyst.

Please get you facts straight... the magic word is ascending...

Then we get to the point where we realise: THEY AREN'T ASCENDING ANYONE!

From what we see ascension = liquification = death.

Therefore it's genocide in every respect, not ascension.

Hence the original statement is true in that the SC is killing organics to stop organics being killed by synthetics.

Then we get to point where we realise : Its all a question of perspective.

Ascension = liquifing = hive mind = living forever in a new form of being.

Unsubstantiated evidence of hive mind - more evidence against than for.

They don't live forever as they can die. 

Many millions of people were killed without liquification, I don't see how being vaporised is ascension...

Perspective means absolutely nothing.

Perspective means absolutely nothing?

okay...then there is absolutly no sense in arguing with you anymore... because everything is just the way you want it to be. there are only one side to a story. Everytime!

No. I mean that trying to justify a logical solution through 'perspective' makes no sense. just because the reapers perceive themselves as being correct doesn't make it so.

I'd also like to see your counters to my other points. If they can be countered...

I am sorry i am getting tired and english is my second language [a lot of doublecking of words] so a short version has to do...

There is no correct answer...everything is depended on perspective...otherwise there would be only one answer to the question "how to live your life".

Reapers see a specie as a whole...they don´t think about the individual as important as the whole...

a logical solution depands on facts (Catalyst thinks singularty is a fact)
and prioritys (the whole species is more important than the Induvidual, surviving is more important that one Induvidual,  organic live must be preserved)

me now go sleepy.

have a nice day / night.

 

[Erixxxx]

thisisme8 wrote...

I'm a little late, so go easy on me, but how can that be unsound logic when history (at least up to the point where he came to that conclusion) proved him right.  Look at when Shepard says the "Geth are better than this," and Legion responds with something along the lines of "empirical evidence says we are not."

Thank you. Finally someone who understands.

[Mazebook]

The Revolut wrote...

maaaze wrote...

The Revolut wrote...

maaaze wrote...

is there hope?!

...could there be people finally understanding that motivations and goals differ from being to being.

No, that was me revelling in the fact that you people couldn't argue your way out of an open hallway.

oh the irony....

Giggle all you'd like. Fact of the matter is, you look at the substantiation of the arguments given between yourself and I and you'll see a distinct difference in quality.

i agree.

[thisisme8]

Here's the sad thing about all these debates in the forums:

Between the main writer, the scene writer, the script writer, and the voice actor, so many things can change. Maybe the tone or the emphasis on a piece of dialogue or bit of information. Naturally, a smaller team will produce a tighter story (ME1 for example). But while the players sit here and over-analyze ever single word and image and background prop, we miss some of the major themes that the main writer wanted to come across.

Take for example, what I believe to be a major theme in ME3 that nobody talks about: Shepard's descent into desperation and despair. I thought it was so well written and played out, but people would rather argue over the design of a hallway in the Citadel.

So sad.

Modifié par thisisme8, 24 juin 2012 - 11:33 .

[filetemo]

thisisme8 wrote...
fans descent into desperation and despair after watching the endings

this was really well delivered, I admit.

Modifié par filetemo, 24 juin 2012 - 11:35 .

[Erixxxx]

filetemo wrote...

thisisme8 wrote...
fans descent into desperation and despair after watching the endings

this was really well delivered, I admit.

Very original. I have never seen such a display of wit before.

[The Revolut]

Erixxxx wrote...

thisisme8 wrote...

I'm a little late, so go easy on me, but how can that be unsound logic when history (at least up to the point where he came to that conclusion) proved him right.  Look at when Shepard says the "Geth are better than this," and Legion responds with something along the lines of "empirical evidence says we are not."

Thank you. Finally someone who understands.

Umm, because the Star Child spoke in absolutes, that's why.

If there is one occurrence to the contrary, the absolute is immediately nullified. It is no longer absolute. What part of that are you people not getting?

[The Revolut]

thisisme8 wrote...

Here's the sad thing about all these debates in the forums:

Between the main writer, the scene writer, the script writer, and the voice actor, so many things can change. Maybe the tone or the emphasis on a piece of dialogue or bit of information. Naturally, a smaller team will produce a tighter story (ME1 for example). But while the players sit here and over-analyze ever single word and image and background prop, we miss some of the major themes that the main writer wanted to come across.

Take for example, what I believe to be a major theme in ME3 that nobody talks about: Shepard's descent into desperation and despair. I thought it was so well written and played out, but people would rather argue over the design of a hallway in the Citadel.

So sad.

If they had delivered the first time around on a meaningful ending, we wouldn't have resorted to such.

Causation.

Modifié par The Revolut, 25 juin 2012 - 12:12 .

[ebauman75]

What's with the pissing matches? "I'm right! Period!" "No, you're wrong, because I said so! End of discussion!" "But you're not right because I said so!"

Getting ridiculous!