17 réponses à ce sujet

[GreyVsGray]

 Okay. I understand that the man puts the corralment of mages above all else. Not the most important of things in the DA universe, but an important thing nonetheless. I understand his revolutionary attitude(The idea to force change is dangerous but, throughout history, has proven effective. I won't get into how he's a bit of a self-centered ****** or how every mage must think his way or suffer scathing insults of being an obedient slave(Circle Bethany gets that, haha) because that's not my focus. I won't talk about how I think he's too harsh on Merrill about her BM use(I personally agree with her about the power. With discipline, she'd be much more effective and less dangerous to others) and should have been more understanding instead of confronting her like a Templar(Oh irony). That isn't what this is about.

My question is this: Why did Anders choose to blow up the Chantry instead of the Templar Barracks? He had ample access to the both and, even more, could've secured Kirkwall with much less of a fight and would've had a MUCH higher impact on Thedas. He could've planted the bomb while with Hawke on the NUMEROUS occasions he or she went there throughout the 3rd Act! Don't give me that "He didn't want to involve Hawke" drivel, he did so by making him play fetch in his last personal quest! 

It just strikes me as INSANE that a man ranting and raving about the big, bad templars of Kirkwall would, when given the choice, attacks and destroys the harmless priests and pilgrims in the church instead. We can't blame it on Vengeance because he'd have blown up the Templars in Act 1 if he could've. 

I only see 3 explanations:
1: Anders is so obsessed with becoming a martyr that he'd kill the priests, blow up the Chantry, and wait for them to kill him
2: He's just an idiot(I like this option)
3: Bad plot writing(Least likely since everything else in his plot makes at least relative sense)

Can anyone explain why the guy just.. Brain farted at the end? I'd have a much harder time killing him if he wasn't stupid like he is. Add his downplaying everyone elses problems to make his self-made burden larger to this and.. Just ugh.

[MichaelStuart]

He needed the Templars to attack the Kirkwall Mages, knowing that it would cause the Mages in the rest of Thedas to rebel.
In the end his goal was to sacrifice the Mages.

[Teddie Sage]

This should've been posted in the Campaign & Story section where the spoilers are allowed.

Modifié par Teddie Sage, 24 juin 2012 - 10:03 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

His target was chosen because it was symbolic.

Neither the World Trade Center, nor numerous other targets chosen to display military might in Earth's history, were physically dangerous. They were picked to make a statement, not to give a strategic advantage.

[Jerrybnsn]

I think I just had an issue that he was not the same Anders, nor even a changed Anders. His looks, his voice, his mannerisms were all different. I know we were suppose to role play a different protagonist, but having played as the Warden, I had a hard time taking to the extreme makeover.

I'm mean let's face it. We could have had twenty years go by since the last time we seen one of our old high school friends and they sure do change, but when you start talking with them again you can see they are still the same person you knew growing up. Anders doesn't fit this mode.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

I'm mean let's face it. We could have had twenty years go by since the last time we seen one of our old high school friends and they sure do change, but when you start talking with them again you can see they are still the same person you knew growing up. Anders doesn't fit this mode.

Anders theoretically became more than one person the moment he was possessed.

[Get Magna Carter]

Amders wanted a WAR between mages and templars to force change.
The priests would have talked peace and negotiated a return to the status quo.
By killing them he has removed that option leaving violent change as (possibly) the only outcome.
Maybe change for the better or for the worse...but he wanted change..any change

note this thread belongs in 
Dragon Age II Official Campaign Quests and Story (SPOILERS) 

Modifié par Get Magna Carter, 30 juin 2012 - 08:42 .

[Aligalipe]

Nizaris1 wrote...

This is similar question on why Osama don't blow up Israel military base?

The cause of 9/11 is USA supporting Israel, Palestinian oppressed. It is said that Osama did that for Palestinians.So, why not he hijacked airplanes in Middle East and ram them to Israel, but instead he hijacked USA airplanes and ram them to WTC and Pentagon in USA... Israel is not a big country, just small one in Middle East.

The answer is...there is a conspiracy...and everything is a set up.

Or...Varric is lying...

It isn' the size that matters, it' s how you use it.

[Orian Tabris]

MichaelStuart wrote...

He needed the Templars to attack the Kirkwall Mages, knowing that it would cause the Mages in the rest of Thedas to rebel.
In the end his goal was to sacrifice the Mages.

That wasn't his goal at all. Anders' goal was to force the freedom of mages, from Chantry rule (which might explain why he blew up the Kirkwalll Chantry). He knew the Circle mages and the apostates who managed to escape the Circle, would never do it themselves, so he thought to become their messiah. Though he - in many cases - really ended up being a martyr, but he still may become their messiah, in life or death, depending on whether or not the mages (or the majority/entirety of Thedas) know the uproar was really caused by him, and not by Hawke.

As we know, Cassandra assumed Hawke was responsible, therefore we can assume everyone else in Thedas thought the same.

------------------------------
Many people seem to forget and/or deny the fact that it wasn't entirely caused by Anders. When he merged with Justice, becoming Vegeance, both Anders AND Justice became Vengeance. They are both two sides of the same coin - but as he said, Justice ceased to be. Anders was influenced by this new persona, and so he went and did something he might'nt ever have done without that influence. Vengeance is always influencing Anders' actions, it's only sometimes that that anger, takes over his body entirely, and reveals itself.

Anders resides in the mortal realm, Justice resides in the Fade. The only difference between the two, is that Justice is fully consumed by Vegeance in the Fade, until it takes over Anders' body in the mortal realm. Justice either almost loses Vegeance entirely, or Vegeance, still controlling and consuming Justice, takes over Anders as well.

[Eternal Phoenix]

Get Magna Carter wrote...

Amders wanted a WAR between mages and templars to force change.
The priests would have talked peace and negotiated a return to the status quo.
By killing them he has removed that option leaving violent change as (possibly) the only outcome.
Maybe change for the better or for the worse...but he wanted change..any change

note this thread belongs in 
Dragon Age II Official Campaign Quests and Story (SPOILERS) 

Therefore he's an idiot and here's why:

• The Chantry still existed just not within Kirkwall. Priests still existed and many priests probably still existed within Kirkwall as I'd imagine some weren't within The Chantry when Anders attacked it.
• Attacking the Templars would probably still have had the same outcome. They'd blame the mages for blowing up their barracks and killing hundreds. Meredith would have called for the right of annulment and then the mages would be forced to fight. (She was already looking for an excuse and the death of a hundred(s) templars would be more than enough reason)

Therefore Anders is an idiot because he could still have started a war between the two forces but at the same time, attacked the military might of The Chantry which would most likely have resulted in less deaths of normal citizens.

We must remember that it was Vengeance that inspired him and Vegeance isn't reasonable. Vengeance is based more on emotion than on reasoning.

[wowpwnslol]

The whole game doesn't make sense, especially when you consider the implied power mages possess.

In Dragon Age: Origins:

"This tower has enough magic to destroy entire Ferelden"

"Tevinter mages were a fearsome sight on the battlefield, entire armies fled before them"

In DA2:

Anders levels chantry without any effort (as well as a couple of city blocks)

If magic was as powerful as the DA2 lore implied, the whole world would be easily ruled by mages. Because they were basically walking nuclear weapons.

[Eternal Phoenix]

Tevinter mages were awesomely powerful which is why they ruled most of Ferelden. It was when everyone rebelled against them that they were destroyed. This was because they were outnumbered. This doesn't mean that they didn't take a fair amount of people down with them. Nowadays you have Templars who can stop a mage from casting a spell which is why mages can't really do much against a templar.

[wowpwnslol]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Tevinter mages were awesomely powerful which is why they ruled most of Ferelden. It was when everyone rebelled against them that they were destroyed. This was because they were outnumbered. This doesn't mean that they didn't take a fair amount of people down with them. Nowadays you have Templars who can stop a mage from casting a spell which is why mages can't really do much against a templar.

But the mage doesn't even have to fight a templar one on one. If we take the DA universe lore seriously, mages have enough power to level entire cities and annihilate battalions of templars single handedly.

Even a useless apprentice.like Jowan from Origins who merely "dabbled" in blood magic could flatten a whole bunch of templars with barely an effort. Imagine what a Tevinter magister was capable of.

It just doesn't make sense at all that tempars could control mages. Even if they were totally immune to magic, mages could cause enough destruction to reduce the entire planet  DA is based on to wasteland.

[thats1evildude]

He wanted to incite the templars into invoking the Rite of Annulment. Killing Meredith or her templars would not have achieved that result; in fact, it would have ended the conflict then and there. Anders was prepared to let every mage in Kirkwall die for the sake of his war.

wowpwnslol wrote...

In DA2:

Anders levels chantry without any effort (as well as a couple of city blocks)

If magic was as powerful as the DA2 lore implied, the whole world would be easily ruled by mages. Because they were basically walking nuclear weapons.

Well, Anders was likely using a formula for explosives that he acquired during Awakening.

And the entire world WAS ruled by mages.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

thats1evildude wrote...

And the entire world WAS ruled by mages.

By all known lore, despite the Imperium's stellar efforts at expansion and ignoring the dwarven kingdom, mages have never ruled the entire world. Most of the known world, perhaps, but not all.

[Orian Tabris]

wowpwnslol wrote...

But the mage doesn't even have to fight a templar one on one. If we take the DA universe lore seriously, mages have enough power to level entire cities and annihilate battalions of templars single handedly.

Even a useless apprentice.like Jowan from Origins who merely "dabbled" in blood magic could flatten a whole bunch of templars with barely an effort. Imagine what a Tevinter magister was capable of.

It just doesn't make sense at all that tempars could control mages. Even if they were totally immune to magic, mages could cause enough destruction to reduce the entire planet  DA is based on to wasteland.

That wasn't the mage, that was the type of magic. Jowan was a
useless mage, which is why Irving and Greagoir wanted to make him
Tranquil before his Harrowing. Blood magic is what made him powerful. He was a good
maleficar, but a terrible regular mage. Both blood magic and regular
magic require a mage powerful enough. So if you take the lore seriously, the mage him/herself, would have to have enough power.

Only a mage destined to be all-powerful, could ever hope to destroy the entire planet.

[Get Magna Carter]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Get Magna Carter wrote...

Amders wanted a WAR between mages and templars to force change.
The priests would have talked peace and negotiated a return to the status quo.
By killing them he has removed that option leaving violent change as (possibly) the only outcome.
Maybe change for the better or for the worse...but he wanted change..any change

note this thread belongs in 
Dragon Age II Official Campaign Quests and Story (SPOILERS) 

Therefore he's an idiot and here's why:

• The Chantry still existed just not within Kirkwall. Priests still existed and many priests probably still existed within Kirkwall as I'd imagine some weren't within The Chantry when Anders attacked it.
• Attacking the Templars would probably still have had the same outcome. They'd blame the mages for blowing up their barracks and killing hundreds. Meredith would have called for the right of annulment and then the mages would be forced to fight. (She was already looking for an excuse and the death of a hundred(s) templars would be more than enough reason)

Therefore Anders is an idiot because he could still have started a war between the two forces but at the same time, attacked the military might of The Chantry which would most likely have resulted in less deaths of normal citizens.

We must remember that it was Vengeance that inspired him and Vegeance isn't reasonable. Vengeance is based more on emotion than on reasoning.

Except  that the main local peacemaker (Elthina) was in the temple and thus killed in the explosion.
Other chantry elsewhere would be less inclined to talk peace following the deaths.
If Anders had attacked the barracks instead, she would still have been alive to intervene and try to negotiate a peace.
(Also the barracks may be better guarded than a temple...)

Modifié par Get Magna Carter, 22 juillet 2012 - 01:23 .