348 réponses à ce sujet

[maxernst]

I think without a respec, it's clearly the secret companion, especially given what you give up to get him. I'm not a Sten fan either--Oghren seemed to me to be clearly better and if I want another warrior early, I can use Dog. I'm not all that big on Leliana, either, though I guess the archery can be a beast in the later part of the game.

[Jon Jern_]

Sten

[Harid]

Shale. By far. Terrible melee stats. Forced elemental damage without being able to check enemy elemental weaknesses. Terrible accuracy.  Forced to put points into Constitution.  Bad all around.

Modifié par Harid, 02 novembre 2010 - 01:09 .

[sylvanaerie]

For me, most useless would be Sten.  I didn't think I disliked any of the regular companions but play a female mage (my prefered PC) and throw Sten in the mix.  A few convo's with him and I was ready to shove him BACK into that cage and let him espouse his anti-mage philosophy to the Emmissaries.  I'm sure they would be more receptive than I was.

Aside from the cookie thing, I really found him to be humorless and not very interesting.  Unlike everyone else he gets only one spec (at 14) and he frankly was too brittle to use as a tank. Does decent DPS but Leliana and Zevran do better and with their dex are hit less often (though they too are pretty brittle if something focuses on them for long but then thats a rogue thing, not a character thing).

[Surango]

For me, it's Alistair. Sword and shield warriors just don't work for me. Plus he's always whining but doesn't really do much about it. At least with Wynne if you're evil she'll try to kill you. When he goes on about blood magic I want to say.. "Oh, you wanna know the best part? I sold the brat's soul back to the demon."

[DWSmiley]

Harid wrote...

Shale. By far. Terrible melee stats. Forced elemental damage without being able to check enemy elemental weaknesses. Terrible accuracy.  Forced to put points into Constitution.  Bad all around.

Try Shale in Rock Mastery mode.  Earthen Grasp is one of the best crowd controls in the game - arguably the best.  It doesn't do damage like Blood Wound but it works on any type of creature and affects elites as much as regular beasties.  Also, RM speeds up archery a lot - it completely offsets the penalty for Aim.

[LPain]

Sten and Leliana. Apart from the beginning there is no use for either in my games. Oghren I only use when I have to as well.

[xXhayleyroxXx]

I'd say Oghren.

[errant_knight]

tonnactus wrote...

mivanc wrote...

Most useless character for me : Dog. Never used him.

Your fault.Overwhelm is one of the best skills in the game(only dragons and ogres resits it).Also,the dog is fast.Excellent magekiller and also able to hurt even bosses seriously with it. My dog killed Arl Howe.On hard difficulty. I have to laugh when he said then "I deserved more".

LOL! I always have my PC do it, but that's actually pretty good. The insult of having your dog kill him is fairly wonderful. Too bad he doesn't become a 'landmark' after death.

[errant_knight]

Surango wrote...

For me, it's Alistair. Sword and shield warriors just don't work for me. Plus he's always whining but doesn't really do much about it. At least with Wynne if you're evil she'll try to kill you. When he goes on about blood magic I want to say.. "Oh, you wanna know the best part? I sold the brat's soul back to the demon."

You know he can't leave or try and kill you without breaking the game, right? What would you have him do?

[DWSmiley]

errant_knight wrote...

The insult of having your dog kill him is fairly wonderful. Too bad he doesn't become a 'landmark' after death.

That would be so fitting!

[Surango]

I know this, but there are ways of using the party system for this- Take Owen in Redcliffe. Alistair is against killing him yet he still helps. There should be a way to have those that disagree with your actions stay out of it.

As for Connor, the way Alistair acted I thought he might get violent. Maybe even just a punch in anger. Would be nice to see something other than hanging his head and disapproving by an amount.

[errant_knight]

Surango wrote...

I know this, but there are ways of using the party system for this- Take Owen in Redcliffe. Alistair is against killing him yet he still helps. There should be a way to have those that disagree with your actions stay out of it.
As for Connor, the way Alistair acted I thought he might get violent. Maybe even just a punch in anger. Would be nice to see something other than hanging his head and disapproving by an amount.

Point taken, but that's a gameplay issue, not a character one. If they have characters consistantly disapproving of action bases on their alignment, players will complain that they're being punished for not being of the same alignment and that there's a morality meter. An Alistair who stood up to the PC to the point of punching them probably wouldn't stay with a bloodmage PC after finding out. If he wasn't pivotal to the plot, or a LI, he'd probably be a bit different, but all the characters occasionally go along with decisions from the PC that they probably wouldn't accept from anyone else.

Edit: Oh, and if built correctly, Alistair can be a very strong fighter. He manages to do most of the killing for me as a s&s warrior, and is generally the last one on his feet in a tough fight.

Modifié par errant_knight, 03 novembre 2010 - 03:35 .

[Addai]

Surango wrote...

For me, it's Alistair. Sword and shield warriors just don't work for me. Plus he's always whining but doesn't really do much about it. At least with Wynne if you're evil she'll try to kill you. When he goes on about blood magic I want to say.. "Oh, you wanna know the best part? I sold the brat's soul back to the demon."

If you're on PC, respec him to DW.  He's a smoking beast.

Oh, and most useless...  nah, I don't think any NPC is useless.  It's usually about the player not building correctly rather than the NPC.  I tend to play rogues and mages so Wynne and Leliana are the most useless to me.

Modifié par Addai67, 03 novembre 2010 - 02:59 .

[Trenrade]

Sten



Alistair is a beast of a tank if built properly and provides comic relief



Lel

[Giggles_Manically]

No companion is useless.



Properly built they can obliterate anyone.

My Blood mage, Oghren, Shale and Zevran party can mulch anything in existence very easily.

[RavenousBear]

I found none of the companions to be useless; it is just figuring out to maximize their skills in combat. However, with my playstyle of focusing on the PC and neglecting the rest of the party, the rogues tend to be the weakest in my party, especially the backstabbers.

I know how lethal they can be, but I am too lazy to position my rogues for flanking the enemy:D.

[Collider]

I'd probably go with Sten.

Not a tank and can only have one specialization for some reason.

Possibly Zevran because he for some reason lacks the same rogue skills that Leliana does, even though he says he has them.

Never really used Dog, but wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't that great in combat.



Shale, Wynne, and Morrigan are probably the most useful squad mates.

[CalJones]

I find them all useful if used right. Sten has the disadvantage of only having one specialisation but I'd rather have him along than Oghren. Two handers are weak at the beginning but, with indomitable, they become very effective mid-game.

[tallinn]

Addai67 wrote...

Surango wrote...

For me, it's Alistair. Sword and shield warriors just don't work for me. Plus he's always whining but doesn't really do much about it. At least with Wynne if you're evil she'll try to kill you. When he goes on about blood magic I want to say.. "Oh, you wanna know the best part? I sold the brat's soul back to the demon."

If you're on PC, respec him to DW.  He's a smoking beast.

Oh, and most useless...  nah, I don't think any NPC is useless.  It's usually about the player not building correctly rather than the NPC.  I tend to play rogues and mages so Wynne and Leliana are the most useless to me.

Interesting. Alistair as a sword and shield tank worked best for me in DA:O (and I think that neither a DW nor a TH warrior is a good tank, I tried both Sten and Oghren and was not impressed). I gave him anything that enables him to attract aggro and soak up damage, where the shield is very useful. Paired very well with a DW rogue.

And for Leliana being useless with an PC rogue: if the PC is not developed as an archer, Leliana fills in that spot. I developed her as an archer, abused song of courage and gave her the full ranger spell set, so Alistair had always a pet along with him while closing in on bosses. Can't think of someone else for that task. On a number of occasions Leliana was the last woman standing in a fight, dealing the final blow. And how are you dealing with all those dragons without an archer? And when you acquire Leliana she is better in lockpicking and detecting and disabling traps so I developed that further as well.

There may be no reason to leave NPC mages at home with a PC mage. I once read that a three mage/tank combo is the optimal setup to beat DA:O (i think it is the most interesting for sure, three mages casting spells should give you colorful effects on the screen :-)). So take Wynne, Morrigan, your PC as mage and Alistair as tank and have fun and impressive screenshots. Take care of Alistairs spell resistance, he will probably take a lot of friendly fire.

And for the topic: Sten was my biggest disappointance. Looks like a rock but was as robust as snow in summer. He comes with low constitution and low dex making him very vulnerable initially and I do not have the patience to improve him there. And in general I find the attack rate of two handers too slow. Did anyone a dps calculation of a properly build two hander?

Other then that I could not develop sympathy for Zevran. Nevertheless I once abused his stealth abilities to get my squad to the mountain top in the Urn of Secret Ashes quest without fighting (was too tired that evening). And just being curious he was in another three rogues run through the same quest, trying out all sorts of dirty tricks from stealth to bombs to poison.

[DWSmiley]

tallinn wrote...
Did anyone a dps calculation of a properly build two hander?

Yep, here.

http://social.biowar...6/index/2761368

DW does the most, in theory.  Then 2H with S&S close behind (max str).  But that does not take into account the DW  spending more time stunned and knocked down.  A max dex S&S is much weaker, with dps about 50-60% that of a max str S&S.

[chefbobby203]

With 100 physical resist(easily attainable using 2 weapons since you have 6 rune slots), your dual wielder will resist a ton of stuns and knockdowns(I think my last dw warrior got knocked down a whopping 1 time tanking the high dragon). DW does the most damage in theory, and in practice(and works better running on tactics than the other 2 builds)

[LPain]

tallinn wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Surango wrote...

For me, it's Alistair. Sword and shield warriors just don't work for me. Plus he's always whining but doesn't really do much about it. At least with Wynne if you're evil she'll try to kill you. When he goes on about blood magic I want to say.. "Oh, you wanna know the best part? I sold the brat's soul back to the demon."

If you're on PC, respec him to DW.  He's a smoking beast.

Oh, and most useless...  nah, I don't think any NPC is useless.  It's usually about the player not building correctly rather than the NPC.  I tend to play rogues and mages so Wynne and Leliana are the most useless to me.

Interesting. Alistair as a sword and shield tank worked best for me in DA:O (and I think that neither a DW nor a TH warrior is a good tank, I tried both Sten and Oghren and was not impressed). I gave him anything that enables him to attract aggro and soak up damage, where the shield is very useful. Paired very well with a DW rogue.

And for Leliana being useless with an PC rogue: if the PC is not developed as an archer, Leliana fills in that spot. I developed her as an archer, abused song of courage and gave her the full ranger spell set, so Alistair had always a pet along with him while closing in on bosses. Can't think of someone else for that task. On a number of occasions Leliana was the last woman standing in a fight, dealing the final blow. And how are you dealing with all those dragons without an archer? And when you acquire Leliana she is better in lockpicking and detecting and disabling traps so I developed that further as well.

(snip)


Other then that I could not develop sympathy for Zevran. Nevertheless I once abused his stealth abilities to get my squad to the mountain top in the Urn of Secret Ashes quest without fighting (was too tired that evening). And just being curious he was in another three rogues run through the same quest, trying out all sorts of dirty tricks from stealth to bombs to poison.

Also this is really a question of preferrence. I prefer Zevran over Leliana. I have always given him at some point in the game one or two deft hands when I have made him a good DW first and if I absolutely need lockpicking (Redcliffe armory) I'll backtrack and swap him to Leliana for a second. Leliana is decent, but another rogue in my team just doesn't fit in. In my gamethroughs the most lethal unit against Arch demon is always Alistair (or once Loghain), Zevran, Morrigan and me what ever class I am. 

And what it comes to Mountaintop Dragon, Alistair, Wynne, Dog or Morrigan is very potent group. I have not used archer for that fight except once and that was because I was archer rogue.