85 réponses à ce sujet

[Fallstar]

batlin wrote...

Well hey, they can't possibly screw it up any more than they did Revan in SWTOR.

....can they?

I saw a YT video of that even though I never played SWTOR, and in my headcanon that scene did not happen.

And no matter how they imported the Warden, no matter what voice actor they use or even if they gave a range of VAs, it still wouldn't match someone's Warden somewhere, as the Warden-by virtue of the SP-had an infinite number of personalities. So to someone somewhere, that Warden import would be worse than the Revan scene. 

Hawke less so, as they can use the same VA, import the appearance etc. They could even look at whether you played a sweetness and light, what's sarcasm, or RRARGH! character and make him react accordingly. So a Hawke import would just carry on in the vein of DA2 really and wouldn't upset that many people I guess. I'm sure that says something about Hawke as a PC but I'm too tired to decide what.

[Jerrybnsn]

While we derailed this thread somewhat over the merits of bringing back certain characters or themes in a series (imo, it wouldn't be much of a series if you didn't)  I would like to concentrate on the OP's question on what the personality of the Warden would be like if he or she is brought forward.

I can't see the devs actually trying to give your Warden a personality considering each Warden was a unique individual in each player's mind.  Only by giving the Warden an actual VO would the devs try to implement a personality.  If the Warden does make an appearance, it would stand to reason that he or she would be silent, which goes back to derailing the thread on whether this merits bringing the Warden back at all as a npc.

[TonberryFeye]

What I would do is just give him/her a few quick lines... sort of like what he uses in combat. In fact, base it off that. I usually use the violent voice because I think it sounds better in combat, and as such I would absolutely love the Warden to deliver the "can I get you a ladder" line to Hawke as a '****** off' moment.

[Jerrybnsn]

Or.....as I have mentioned before, bringin back your Warden as a playable character for a certain hook in the story where your Warden's awesome power can be taken out for a test spin for a couple of game time hours, for old time's sake. That way, if there is any interaction, they can just make it silent protagonist with a full dialogue tree.

[Fast Jimmy]

No.

It's not going to happen. The imaginary scenario in your head will not match the expierence given the hurdle to making the Warden a reality for a voiced game.

I said this in a thread months ago, but the only way to do this is to have the Warden become some type of mutant, either from hopping in the Eluvian after Morrigan, or through another set of events. This would make the appearance, voice, personality and even gender something that is unrecognizable. But then again, if that is the case, why bother even having the Warden back?

[Little Princess Peach]

why can't we hold a vote on what they should look like and the best vote would win for each race that the warden could be because I doubt bioware will let us customise the warden in the CC at the start

[Jerrybnsn]

For the next game, the issue has to be dealt with that the Warden disappeared. If you played Witch Hunt and went with Morrigan than that will be simple. If you didn't go with Morrigan than that questioned will need to be explained.

[Jerrybnsn]

Tali-vas-normandy wrote...

why can't we hold a vote on what they should look like and the best vote would win for each race that the warden could be because I doubt bioware will let us customise the warden in the CC at the start

Since they are still using the same engine they used for Origins the artwork shouldn't be a problem of importing.  It's just that it would clash with the uglification process that all the others experienced with their transfering over to DA2.  This is assuming Bioware doesn't change the artwork again.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 28 juin 2012 - 11:37 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

For the next game, the issue has to be dealt with that the Warden disappeared. If you played Witch Hunt and went with Morrigan than that will be simple. If you didn't go with Morrigan than that questioned will need to be explained.

I'm not sure HAS to be explained is the right words. Nothing is forcing Bioware to reference anything related to this at all. 

After all, people said the exact same thing before DA2 came out and DA2 didn't touch hardly any of the dangling plot ideas of DA:O or its DLCs with a 10-foot-pole.

[Jerrybnsn]

But DA3 will be different. I'm sure it.

[Fast Jimmy]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

But DA3 will be different. I'm sure it.

<sigh> I remember hearing this argument about six months ago for ME3. That there was no way that Bioware would do another lame ending after DA2. Or that they wouldn't railroad choices like the Rachni from previous games to the exact same setup.

Think what you will. And it may even be true, about seeing Morrigan, the OGB and the Warden in DA3.

But realize... there's no easy way for Bioware to do this, let alone a way for them to do it that will be satisfying for anyone while still trying cater to everyone's unique story.

[Jerrybnsn]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

But DA3 will be different. I'm sure it.

<sigh>..................... That there was no way that Bioware would do another lame ending after DA2. Or that they wouldn't railroad choices like the Rachni from previous games to the exact same setup.

ME3's ending was lame because it had no ending until just recently.  As far as it being a railroaded game, it's not that big of a deal to me because ME was a more cinematic game that fits well with set protagonists and set storylines.  I felt no disappointment from ME other than not getting an ending to a game I paid $60 for expecting it to be the final conclusion to a trilogy.

But the DA universe is suppose to be a different type of game and I can only hope that they've learned from the mistakes of DA2.  So I come on here and suggest as well as speculate all in the name of hope.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 28 juin 2012 - 12:41 .

[Fast Jimmy]

I understand that. Believe me, I truly and honestly do.

But there's no way for Bioware to win this fight. Which, in turn, means there is no way for us to win this fight.If they can even manage to import how our warden looks into the new engine and not have them look like a train wreck without custom tweaking, there is still the issue of not only voicing the Warden (requiring separate VAs possibly for race, and of course also for gender) and having it sound like no one wanted. If you make the Warden silent, there will still be the issue of anything he/she says not sitting right with the player, "my Warden would NEVER say that!"

Not to mention if Bioware intends on honoring the U.S. choice for DA:O, then all this planning and work would only be for fragment of the population. And, of course, those who chose the Ultimate Sacrifice would complain that Bioware is devaluing their choice by punishing them for making that choice, which has no bonus for future content or Warden cameos. Not to mention the likelihood of the OGB somehow being slipped in as canon and you've got the U.S. players foaming at the mouth and to top it off, the players who wanted the Warden back will be disappointed that its not how they dreamed... since Bioware could NEVER make it how they dreamed.

Its an impossible battle for Bioware to fight. Would it be awesome if they could do it and do it perfectly? Of course. But us demanding that they do it and them not being able to find a way to balance all of these conflicting requests in a way that doesn't result in it becoming a hokie side quest or cameo is hard. REALLY, really hard.

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but if we are realistic, we have to see that as much as we'd want something like this, its a recipe for heartbreak and broken dreams, not to mention wasting resources Bioware could use making sure THIS game is great, without worrying about games of the past.

I'm not trying to come off mean or depressing, but I just think that getting worked up about this only will lead to us being disappointed when it never happens, or disappointed when it does.

[Jerrybnsn]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

...............If they can even manage to import how our warden looks into the new engine and not have them look like a train wreck without custom tweaking,...........

Aren't they using the same engine as from Origins anyway?

[WotanAnubis]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

For the next game, the issue has to be dealt with that the Warden disappeared. If you played Witch Hunt and went with Morrigan than that will be simple. If you didn't go with Morrigan than that questioned will need to be explained.

Why?

The Grey Warden showed up, ended a Blight before it really got going, restored the Grey Wardens in Ferelden, left to do her own thing.

Why is it so very vital to know what she did next? She's played her part in history. Why should it be so essential that she continues to play a part in history?

No, you know what issue Dragon Age 3 has to deal with? The fallout of the Spirit Monk's actions. Perhaps she claimed the Water Dragon's power, becoming a Goddess herself. Perhaps she simply restored the Jade Empire, allowing it to grow powerful under Sun Lian's rule. In either event, the Jade Empire stands poised to launch its invasion of Thedas and there is just no way that Dragon Age 3 cannot deal with it if the series wants to have any kind of integrity.
Now, some people might say that the Jade Empire isn't part of the Dragon Age world, but they'd be wrong. Sir Roderick Ponce von Fontlebottom the Magnificent Bastard was clearly an Orlesian noble ruling part of Ferelden during the occupation. How do I know this to be true? Because I am dogmatically asserting it.

[wsandista]

The Warden goes on the calling and dies.

[SteveGarbage]

Let's see, assuming it takes place after DA2, six plus years later I'm assuming that some serious decomposition is taking place. He's dead.

The only way my Warden is coming back would be as a reanimated zombie (or something like Justice in Awakening) and I don't want to see that. Sure, I've got other alive Wardens, but they're definitely not as special as the first.

No Warden for DA3. Ultimate Sacrifice all the way.

[Jerrybnsn]

16 years and the Warden succumbs to the taint? I thought they had at least thirty.

[Jerrybnsn]

SteveGarbage wrote...

No Warden for DA3. Ultimate Sacrifice all the way.

I support your choice in not importing your Warden.  Now support my choice in importing my Warden that survies and has OGB.

[Fast Jimmy]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

...............If they can even manage to import how our warden looks into the new engine and not have them look like a train wreck without custom tweaking,...........

Aren't they using the same engine as from Origins anyway?

Same derivative engine, but DA2 used the Lycium engine, while Origins used the Eclipse enginge.

Overall, the same nuts and bolts, but DA2's graphical "improvements" made face imports from previous Origins character NPC models look mutated.

For example, here is one famous import of Morrigan found hidden in the unused files of the DA2 disc:

http://t2.gstatic.co...GrWcUygfAv1xnQ 

The new engine makes them create better looking faces (although I think they look more cartoony than realistic, personally) but importing from Origins to DA2 requires a ton of editting and work to make them recognizable. And despite the work done on characters like Allistair and Zevran, people still say they looked ugly and "off."

It would be a kerfuffle pretty much on par with the No Face Import issue with ME3. Ugly or unrecognizeable Wardens running around left and right. There would me madness in the streets! Forty years of darkness, forty years of light! Plagues, boils! Cats and dogs... living together... MASS HYSTERIA!


Then throw the voice in on top of that, and the lines that may not be true to someone's Warden (which would be everybody, the Warden couldn't have an opinion of if the sky was blue without getting fan whiplash) and you've got a shirt storm ready to hit the gaming community at large.

[wsandista]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

16 years and the Warden succumbs to the taint? I thought they had at least thirty.

It's actually pretty vague(acording to Word of Gaider). I think 10 to 30 is average.

Anyways, with the problems of having the Warden be voiced and possibly saying something that the player wouldn't have chosen, I think having the Warden play a role in game is problematic to say the least.

[WotanAnubis]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

SteveGarbage wrote...

No Warden for DA3. Ultimate Sacrifice all the way.

I support your choice in not importing your Warden.  Now support my choice in importing my Warden that survies and has OGB.

The Warden is still doing her own thing in Ferelden (such a pity the next game is likely to take place in Orlais), has gone into hiding somewhere (and Leliana still hasn't found her) or she has succumbed to the Taint.

Morrigan's agenda, meanwhile, has been to restore ancient magic and bring it back into the world. The Dark Ritual was a convenient way to accomplish this without too much trouble (the whole Blight thing notwithstanding). If the Dark Ritual was not performed she may still have found some alternative, less convenient way to accomplish her goals. Either way, there's now a child out there with greater magical power than we've seen before.

Wait, darn, none of that really requires importation.

Note that I'm not saying Bioware is going to take this route (although, hello there Rachni Queen),. But really, why do you insist the Warden's tale has not concluded? Simply because they're not dead yet? Character's stories can end without them dying.
Now, I will grant that the existence or non-existence of the OGB is a wrinkle and I would like to see it addressed at some point, but once Morrigan has become pregnant, the Warden's role in that story ends, too. Or they step through the mirror with Morrigan and Morrigan, the Warden and the OGB are removed from the world, unlikely to return - which would make them showing up again later kind of silly once again.

Modifié par WotanAnubis, 28 juin 2012 - 01:53 .

[Jerrybnsn]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

...............If they can even manage to import how our warden looks into the new engine and not have them look like a train wreck without custom tweaking,...........

Aren't they using the same engine as from Origins anyway?

Same derivative engine, but DA2 used the Lycium engine, while Origins used the Eclipse enginge.

Overall, the same nuts and bolts, but DA2's graphical "improvements" made face imports from previous Origins character NPC models look mutated.

So that's what happened with the all those bad cameos.  I thought it was just more artist's choice, like unusual large two handed swords and Palespawn.

I don't know why they felt they had to swap out engines for animation that doesn't look better but just different.  All the complaints about the DA graphics was that they weren't using the better Unreal3 engine like ME anyway. So if you weren't going to use the same graphics as ME than you should have just kept the same one.

Why don't they just go back to the Lycium engine that looks easier on the eyes?  Any problem with that?  Any?

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 28 juin 2012 - 03:26 .

[Emzamination]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

16 years and the Warden succumbs to the taint? I thought they had at least thirty.

They do have 30 years to live on average.Your life span as a warden depends on how old you are when you take the joining.Someone loghain's age would only last 10 years (if that) because they're already kind of old and falling apart.The warden however is 19 when he/she undertakes the joining in origins, 20 at its conclusion and 30 at the end of Da2 which is already 3 years into the war.It has only been 10 years since the warden took the joining as far as we know at the moment.We don't know how many years we'll be jumped forward past the initial 3 into the da3 war but I highly doubt it'll be 20 .

[DogMeat312]

I really hope the warden is dead in DA3. Maybe he/she heard about how awesome Hawke is, got jealous and died in a fiery explosion involving a nug and a golem....