329 réponses à ce sujet

[tmp7704]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

but would this mod affect the ending though?

There may be a small variation in one of the opening lines if Alistair is the one who delivers the eulogy (depending if the game takes care to switch state from "alistair in love" to "alistair still in love" when the player dies) but other than that it fit quite seamless at a glance.

[David Gaider]

Recidiva wrote...
No.  Nope.  Sorry.  Not working for me.

And the more someone tries to explain it to me, I'm finding myself a lot angrier.

Well... tough? Sorry you feel that way, but Alistair sacrificing himself for you is how you went down. You're not supposed to like it. You are responsible for it, however -- you did not take Morrigan's offer, which would have saved you both, and then brought him to the Archdemon to... what? Watch the woman he loves die?

I get why you would have wanted to die too, but that's who Alistair is. In this case he ran and did it first. As far as I'm concerned you could have been two steps behind him the entire run towards the Archdemon, but you simply didn't catch up to him in time... because that's how it went down. That's the story.

If you simply don't like that and wanted a different story, I get it. I don't sympathize, but I do understand. It wouldn't be a difficult thing to mod, in fact, as you'd just need to change the scripting in Alistair's last dialogue -- add a "NO WAY, JOSE!" player option that cuts to the original player-dies cutscene. Voila!

Modifié par David Gaider, 15 décembre 2009 - 08:10 .

[DeathWyrmNexus]

HarlequinDream wrote...

DeathWyrmNexus wrote...

HarlequinDream wrote...

Estelindis wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

So... am I reading this right? Alistair sacrificing himself to save the woman he loves is... sexist? 

While I wouldn't go that far...

...if you're playing a female City Elf, you've already had one man (who loves you as much as he can in the circumstances) sacrifice himself to save you.  You might not want that to happen again.  You might hope that, if Alistair respects you, he'll let you make the choice to die to save him.  Of course, he kinda does...  In that he lets you leave him at the Gate.  But, in my own way, I find that as implausible as you find our idea that we should be able to talk him out of dying when facing the archdaemon.  I just think not taking the other Grey Warden to face the archdaemon is a really unWardenly thing to do.  It seems selfish to leave him at the Gate just because you love him.  He has the right to fight as much as you...  Because you respect him!

One thing I can say is this...

It's not really a "sit down and talk about it" situation. Yes, the Archdemon is down, but who's to say a mass of darkspawn aren't coming to save it? Or that it won't shake off the injuries in a minute?

Not that I'd mind being able to down Alistair and take the final blow, but it's not really a moment for discussion. It's a moment for action.

Then you have that pesky genetic drive that men are expendable and protecting your woman is key. It is sexist but it is also what pretty much any man I know would do for their woman. We don't even think about it. So yea, I found it to be a very honest decision for him to make.

Because women would never sacrifice themselves for love!

...Yeah, have to disagree there about the "genetic drive." It comes down to personality. Some guys honestly wouldn't care that much if the girl they were sleeping with was going to die unless they killed themselves. Some guys would. Some girls would make sure they took the killing blow, others wouldn't.

Just like, you know, I think I'd take a killing blow to save my girlfriend, and I'm pretty sure, if she had time before I did it, she'd try to argue that she should do it. And, funny, neither of us seem to have the genetics for that drive, if it only occurs in men.

Are you being thick or just easily offended because this is getting monotonous. Personality is key to the whole sacrifice mentality. However, since that argument has been tread and retread to DEATH, I was adding another angle to it. An angle that does play into things. You can see it in culture and history.

I am not talking about booty call guys which you seem to think are relevant, I am thinking of love.

So your pointless strawman attack at the beginning of your post could have been omitted to give you more credibility.

[DeathWyrmNexus]

Recidiva wrote...

DeathWyrmNexus wrote...

Would you let your kids kill themselves for you? Would you let your mate die for you?

If no, then you lack any right to judge Alistair for not letting your PC die. It isn't about the grill. It isn't about who's will is stronger. The fact that you are making a pissing match is rather disgusting. I am simply describing his state of mind and why he did it. It isn't about your validation. <_<

You're describing your state of mind, I'm describing mine.  That's what forums are for.  You play your game, I play mine, and in the end, it's a game.

And don't worry, I shan't turn to you for validation, neither required nor desired.

Actually we are describing the same state of mind except you seem to think you are supposed to get your way. Luckily, they made a mod for that.

[HarlequinDream]

DeathWyrmNexus wrote...

HarlequinDream wrote...

DeathWyrmNexus wrote...

HarlequinDream wrote...

Estelindis wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

So... am I reading this right? Alistair sacrificing himself to save the woman he loves is... sexist? 

While I wouldn't go that far...

...if you're playing a female City Elf, you've already had one man (who loves you as much as he can in the circumstances) sacrifice himself to save you.  You might not want that to happen again.  You might hope that, if Alistair respects you, he'll let you make the choice to die to save him.  Of course, he kinda does...  In that he lets you leave him at the Gate.  But, in my own way, I find that as implausible as you find our idea that we should be able to talk him out of dying when facing the archdaemon.  I just think not taking the other Grey Warden to face the archdaemon is a really unWardenly thing to do.  It seems selfish to leave him at the Gate just because you love him.  He has the right to fight as much as you...  Because you respect him!

One thing I can say is this...

It's not really a "sit down and talk about it" situation. Yes, the Archdemon is down, but who's to say a mass of darkspawn aren't coming to save it? Or that it won't shake off the injuries in a minute?

Not that I'd mind being able to down Alistair and take the final blow, but it's not really a moment for discussion. It's a moment for action.

Then you have that pesky genetic drive that men are expendable and protecting your woman is key. It is sexist but it is also what pretty much any man I know would do for their woman. We don't even think about it. So yea, I found it to be a very honest decision for him to make.

Because women would never sacrifice themselves for love!

...Yeah, have to disagree there about the "genetic drive." It comes down to personality. Some guys honestly wouldn't care that much if the girl they were sleeping with was going to die unless they killed themselves. Some guys would. Some girls would make sure they took the killing blow, others wouldn't.

Just like, you know, I think I'd take a killing blow to save my girlfriend, and I'm pretty sure, if she had time before I did it, she'd try to argue that she should do it. And, funny, neither of us seem to have the genetics for that drive, if it only occurs in men.

Are you being thick or just easily offended because this is getting monotonous. Personality is key to the whole sacrifice mentality. However, since that argument has been tread and retread to DEATH, I was adding another angle to it. An angle that does play into things. You can see it in culture and history.

I am not talking about booty call guys which you seem to think are relevant, I am thinking of love.

So your pointless strawman attack at the beginning of your post could have been omitted to give you more credibility.

See, I'm fine with Alistair sacrificing himself if you bring him. I get that.

What annoys me is this "genetic drive" you seem to think exists in men. Other than that, I'm with you. But hearing that men are hard-wired to protect their women at any cost while women aren't bothers me.

[DeathWyrmNexus]

HarlequinDream wrote...

DeathWyrmNexus wrote...

HarlequinDream wrote...

DeathWyrmNexus wrote...

HarlequinDream wrote...

Estelindis wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

So... am I reading this right? Alistair sacrificing himself to save the woman he loves is... sexist? 

While I wouldn't go that far...

...if you're playing a female City Elf, you've already had one man (who loves you as much as he can in the circumstances) sacrifice himself to save you.  You might not want that to happen again.  You might hope that, if Alistair respects you, he'll let you make the choice to die to save him.  Of course, he kinda does...  In that he lets you leave him at the Gate.  But, in my own way, I find that as implausible as you find our idea that we should be able to talk him out of dying when facing the archdaemon.  I just think not taking the other Grey Warden to face the archdaemon is a really unWardenly thing to do.  It seems selfish to leave him at the Gate just because you love him.  He has the right to fight as much as you...  Because you respect him!

One thing I can say is this...

It's not really a "sit down and talk about it" situation. Yes, the Archdemon is down, but who's to say a mass of darkspawn aren't coming to save it? Or that it won't shake off the injuries in a minute?

Not that I'd mind being able to down Alistair and take the final blow, but it's not really a moment for discussion. It's a moment for action.

Then you have that pesky genetic drive that men are expendable and protecting your woman is key. It is sexist but it is also what pretty much any man I know would do for their woman. We don't even think about it. So yea, I found it to be a very honest decision for him to make.

Because women would never sacrifice themselves for love!

...Yeah, have to disagree there about the "genetic drive." It comes down to personality. Some guys honestly wouldn't care that much if the girl they were sleeping with was going to die unless they killed themselves. Some guys would. Some girls would make sure they took the killing blow, others wouldn't.

Just like, you know, I think I'd take a killing blow to save my girlfriend, and I'm pretty sure, if she had time before I did it, she'd try to argue that she should do it. And, funny, neither of us seem to have the genetics for that drive, if it only occurs in men.

Are you being thick or just easily offended because this is getting monotonous. Personality is key to the whole sacrifice mentality. However, since that argument has been tread and retread to DEATH, I was adding another angle to it. An angle that does play into things. You can see it in culture and history.

I am not talking about booty call guys which you seem to think are relevant, I am thinking of love.

So your pointless strawman attack at the beginning of your post could have been omitted to give you more credibility.

See, I'm fine with Alistair sacrificing himself if you bring him. I get that.

What annoys me is this "genetic drive" you seem to think exists in men. Other than that, I'm with you. But hearing that men are hard-wired to protect their women at any cost while women aren't bothers me.

Point out where I stated the bolded or you are a moron and an easily offended moron to boot. Can you do it? Cuz I remember stating what men had, not what women lacked.

So, you know your task to back your allegation. Or shall I just call you a moron now? Because you know, I LOVE being called sexist by ommission. Just makes my happy little world...

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

The way this topic is going I think Alistair was right... "You know, one good thing about the blight is how it brings people together" 

[Recidiva]

David Gaider wrote...

Well... tough? Sorry you feel that way, but Alistair sacrificing himself for you is how you went down. You're not supposed to like it. You are responsible for it, however -- you did not take Morrigan's offer, which would have saved you both, and then brought him to the Archdemon to... what? Watch the woman he loves die?

I get why you would have wanted to die too, but that's who Alistair is. In this case he ran and did it first. As far as I'm concerned you could have been two steps behind him the entire run towards the Archdemon, but you simply didn't catch up to him in time... because that's how it went down. That's the story.

If you simply don't like that and wanted a different story, I get it. I don't sympathize, but I do understand.

No, tough is actually an excellent answer in context.

The "real life" question is entirely different than the gaming question, which I appreciate entirely and I hope you do as well.

The game's amazing and awesome and all that good stuff.  I do appreciate Alistair's point and I do appreciate yours.

It's not at all that I don't "like" it.  And there's no reason to explain that or you wouldn't have written it that way in the first place.  Visceral actions proving visceral responses are good things as far as I'm concerned.

I don't think you intended anybody to like it.  Being unable to predict how MUCH they wouldn't like it also isn't your fault because you might possibly have an ounce of humility about this whole "being able to affect people through a game" thing.  Understandable.

And thank you.  Being two steps behind is good too.  I'll take it.

Modifié par Recidiva, 15 décembre 2009 - 08:18 .

[Jayce]

Recidiva wrote...

DeathWyrmNexus wrote...

Then you have that pesky genetic drive that men are expendable and protecting your woman is key. It is sexist but it is also what pretty much any man I know would do for their woman. We don't even think about it. So yea, I found it to be a very honest decision for him to make.

The only way that it's sexist is assuming that women don't have the will or drive to do the same.  Even, say, a stronger will or impulse to do the same.

I found my decision to be very honest as well.  And rather infuriating to be told that what I want makes no sense and I'm unappreciative because I'm a girl.  I don't get it.  It's not getting any better, it's actually getting worse when people explain it. 

It's like trying to grill at my family reunion.  "Women don't like fire." " Women shouldn't be doing this."  "Guys, I make a better barbecue sauce than any of you..." "Hahaha..she's so cute."  and I can just hear when I get steered away from something I'm really good at "You're acting like we're giving you a choice."

I'm a mother with exactly the right sort of mama bear instincts and set of hormones that would require giving my life for someone I love and my mate.  I'm not getting how my impulse is invalid or how I should have just accepted it.  No.  Nope.  Sorry.  Not working for me.

And the more someone tries to explain it to me, I'm finding myself a lot angrier.

I'm going to go put some sear marks on something.

But that is sorta the point. Alastair feels the exact same way you do, he just beat you to the punch. It's frustrating and sucks, I know. But there you are. 

[tmp7704]

David Gaider wrote...

 You are responsible for it, however -- you did not take Morrigan's offer, which would have saved you both, and then brought him to the Archdemon to... what? Watch the woman he loves die?

The part about bringing him to watch is probably not very fair if it's viewed without meta-gaming -- story-wise there's no guarantee the player's character will be still standing and ready to stick the fork in archdemon when it's done, so it's just prudent to bring another Warden rather than just one, and double the odds. Now if it just so happens there's still two Wardens when it comes to it then it's quite a mixed blessing... but the game story does push player into opting for this route.

[HarlequinDream]

DeathWyrmNexus wrote...

HarlequinDream wrote...

DeathWyrmNexus wrote...

HarlequinDream wrote...

DeathWyrmNexus wrote...

HarlequinDream wrote...

Estelindis wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

So... am I reading this right? Alistair sacrificing himself to save the woman he loves is... sexist? 

While I wouldn't go that far...

...if you're playing a female City Elf, you've already had one man (who loves you as much as he can in the circumstances) sacrifice himself to save you.  You might not want that to happen again.  You might hope that, if Alistair respects you, he'll let you make the choice to die to save him.  Of course, he kinda does...  In that he lets you leave him at the Gate.  But, in my own way, I find that as implausible as you find our idea that we should be able to talk him out of dying when facing the archdaemon.  I just think not taking the other Grey Warden to face the archdaemon is a really unWardenly thing to do.  It seems selfish to leave him at the Gate just because you love him.  He has the right to fight as much as you...  Because you respect him!

One thing I can say is this...

It's not really a "sit down and talk about it" situation. Yes, the Archdemon is down, but who's to say a mass of darkspawn aren't coming to save it? Or that it won't shake off the injuries in a minute?

Not that I'd mind being able to down Alistair and take the final blow, but it's not really a moment for discussion. It's a moment for action.

Then you have that pesky genetic drive that men are expendable and protecting your woman is key. It is sexist but it is also what pretty much any man I know would do for their woman. We don't even think about it. So yea, I found it to be a very honest decision for him to make.

Because women would never sacrifice themselves for love!

...Yeah, have to disagree there about the "genetic drive." It comes down to personality. Some guys honestly wouldn't care that much if the girl they were sleeping with was going to die unless they killed themselves. Some guys would. Some girls would make sure they took the killing blow, others wouldn't.

Just like, you know, I think I'd take a killing blow to save my girlfriend, and I'm pretty sure, if she had time before I did it, she'd try to argue that she should do it. And, funny, neither of us seem to have the genetics for that drive, if it only occurs in men.

Are you being thick or just easily offended because this is getting monotonous. Personality is key to the whole sacrifice mentality. However, since that argument has been tread and retread to DEATH, I was adding another angle to it. An angle that does play into things. You can see it in culture and history.

I am not talking about booty call guys which you seem to think are relevant, I am thinking of love.

So your pointless strawman attack at the beginning of your post could have been omitted to give you more credibility.

See, I'm fine with Alistair sacrificing himself if you bring him. I get that.

What annoys me is this "genetic drive" you seem to think exists in men. Other than that, I'm with you. But hearing that men are hard-wired to protect their women at any cost while women aren't bothers me.

Point out where I stated the bolded or you are a moron and an easily offended moron to boot. Can you do it? Cuz I remember stating what men had, not what women lacked.

So, you know your task to back your allegation. Or shall I just call you a moron now? Because you know, I LOVE being called sexist by ommission. Just makes my happy little world...

That isn't what "Then you have that pesky genetic drive that men are expendable and protecting your woman is key" means? If I misunderstood, I apologize, but it sounds like you're saying that it's genetic that men sacrifice themselves to protect the woman they love, and there's no mention of it working in reverse.

[Kohaku]

David Gaider wrote...

Recidiva wrote...
No.  Nope.  Sorry.  Not working for me.

And the more someone tries to explain it to me, I'm finding myself a lot angrier.

Well... tough? Sorry you feel that way, but Alistair sacrificing himself for you is how you went down. You're not supposed to like it. You are responsible for it, however -- you did not take Morrigan's offer, which would have saved you both, and then brought him to the Archdemon to... what? Watch the woman he loves die?

I get why you would have wanted to die too, but that's who Alistair is. In this case he ran and did it first. As far as I'm concerned you could have been two steps behind him the entire run towards the Archdemon, but you simply didn't catch up to him in time... because that's how it went down. That's the story.

If you simply don't like that and wanted a different story, I get it. I don't sympathize, but I do understand. It wouldn't be a difficult thing to mod, in fact, as you'd just need to change the scripting in Alistair's last dialogue -- add a "NO WAY, JOSE!" player option that cuts to the original player-dies cutscene. Voila!

What I don't get is how you can continue with being a writer. Seriously. I may not like characters and speak up about it, but I cannot understand how all of you can handle this constant ****ing about your decisions in YOUR game. It's like anything you would have done would have gotten beaten with twenty bats by people who think they understand and can do it better.

This is why we are able to mod the game people. Change it to what you want it to be. Harassing the people who made the game helps no one. If I were them I wouldn't post here at all. There are enough companies that do just that.

[Thiefy]

somebody please topple that quote pyramid.



anyway alistair, other people may not like you, but i'd slay an archdemon for you. do i get a hug?

[Recidiva]

Jayce F wrote...

But that is sorta the point. Alastair feels the exact same way you do, he just beat you to the punch. It's frustrating and sucks, I know. But there you are. 

Right, and that's not actually what I'm arguing about.  Hell, my husband tells me the same thing, but he knows he's got to watch for me because we're actually never going to agree on it.  I'm cool with that.

I wouldn't be cool with him having the right to do it because of his gender, which is the point of some posters, NOT the story.

So.../Eddie Izzard voice/ crowbar distinction...there...

[DeathWyrmNexus]

HarlequinDream wrote...

That isn't what "Then you have that pesky genetic drive that men are expendable and protecting your woman is key" means? If I misunderstood, I apologize, but it sounds like you're saying that it's genetic that men sacrifice themselves to protect the woman they love, and there's no mention of it working in reverse.

Equations for you.

Alistair = Man
Man = relevant to talking about Alistair
Male cultural and genetic drives = relevant to talking about Alistair

Why would I need to talk about women's drives when I am talking about Alistair? Are you seriously that thin skinned where every comment about men has to have some apologist talk about women?

I didn't need to mention the Mama Bear drive because Alistair isn't a woman. I didn't feel the need to say "Women can do it too lulz" because I was under the false impression that I was talking to people old enough to play the game and thus technically old enough to understand that not every comment will have to include them directly.

Ugh...

[DeathWyrmNexus]

Recidiva wrote...

Jayce F wrote...

But that is sorta the point. Alastair feels the exact same way you do, he just beat you to the punch. It's frustrating and sucks, I know. But there you are. 

Right, and that's not actually what I'm arguing about.  Hell, my husband tells me the same thing, but he knows he's got to watch for me because we're actually never going to agree on it.  I'm cool with that.

I wouldn't be cool with him having the right to do it because of his gender, which is the point of some posters, NOT the story.

So.../Eddie Izzard voice/ crowbar distinction...there...

You are offered the same conditions as I offered Harlequin to find where I stated that women don't have the drive. As I recall and the posts clearly state, I was talking about male drives. I did not at any point state that women lack any relevant drives. I was making additional commentary on Alistair's behalf.

So you are welcome to trace where I said women can't do it and also be called an easily offended moron when you can't.

Have fun.

[Jayce]

Recidiva wrote...

Jayce F wrote...

But that is sorta the point. Alastair feels the exact same way you do, he just beat you to the punch. It's frustrating and sucks, I know. But there you are. 

Right, and that's not actually what I'm arguing about.  Hell, my husband tells me the same thing, but he knows he's got to watch for me because we're actually never going to agree on it.  I'm cool with that.

I wouldn't be cool with him having the right to do it because of his gender, which is the point of some posters, NOT the story.

So.../Eddie Izzard voice/ crowbar distinction...there...

Yes and anyone who says its only the right of men to so, is a prat of the highest order. But to be fair, saying that isn't the same thing as saying men have a strong protective instinct of their spouses. It's just as valid an argument for women too, in fact if anything, women are twice as protective and vicious as men when it comes to protecting family, believe me, I've seen it.

But that takes us back to the original point. Your character wanted to be the one, Alistair wanted to be the one but Alastair beat you to it. Saying it was a very male thing to do isn't the same as saying women shouldn't or wouldn't do the or feel the same.

If it was Ser Cauthrien up there, saving her beau, you'd almost certainly hear men grumbling just as loudly that they wanted to be the ones who got the final blow in.

[tigrina]

DeathWyrmNexus wrote...
Equations for you.

Alistair = Man
Man = relevant to talking about Alistair
Male cultural and genetic drives = relevant to talking about Alistair

Why would I need to talk about women's drives when I am talking about Alistair? Are you seriously that thin skinned where every comment about men has to have some apologist talk about women?

I didn't need to mention the Mama Bear drive because Alistair isn't a woman. I didn't feel the need to say "Women can do it too lulz" because I was under the false impression that I was talking to people old enough to play the game and thus technically old enough to understand that not every comment will have to include them directly.

Ugh...

Let me get this straight: first of all you generalise all men and women simultaneously and then you're surprised people don't like it?

Right.

I understand why Alistair does what he does, but don't come up with this .. kind of excuse. Bah.

[DeathWyrmNexus]

Jayce F wrote...

Recidiva wrote...

Jayce F wrote...

But that is sorta the point. Alastair feels the exact same way you do, he just beat you to the punch. It's frustrating and sucks, I know. But there you are. 

Right, and that's not actually what I'm arguing about.  Hell, my husband tells me the same thing, but he knows he's got to watch for me because we're actually never going to agree on it.  I'm cool with that.

I wouldn't be cool with him having the right to do it because of his gender, which is the point of some posters, NOT the story.

So.../Eddie Izzard voice/ crowbar distinction...there...

Yes and anyone who says its only the right of men to so, is a prat of the highest order. But to be fair, saying that isn't the same thing as saying men have a strong protective instinct of their spouses. It's just as valid an argument for women too, in fact if anything, women are twice as protective and vicious as men when it comes to protecting family, believe me, I've seen it.

But that takes us back to the original point. Your character wanted to be the one, Alistair wanted to be the one but Alastair beat you to it. Saying it was a very male thing to do isn't the same as saying women shouldn't or wouldn't do the or feel the same.

If it was Ser Cauthrien up there, saving her beau, you'd almost certainly hear men grumbling just as loudly that they wanted to be the ones who got the final blow in.

****ing thank you...

*gives cookie*

And yes, I would have been among the fellow dudes moaning cuz I wanted to save my love. However, the game is full of tough choices and that is the point. Not liking the choice is part of validating whether or not you make it. I am fond of the lack of perfect endings.

But it is also why I made sure to vet the Screw Morrigan or Die choice with the women I based my female characters off of.

[Recidiva]

Jayce F wrote...

Yes and anyone who says its only the right of men to so, is a prat of the highest order. But to be fair, saying that isn't the same thing as saying men have a strong protective instinct of their spouses. It's just as valid an argument for women too, in fact if anything, women are twice as protective and vicious as men when it comes to protecting family, believe me, I've seen it.

But that takes us back to the original point. Your character wanted to be the one, Alistair wanted to be the one but Alastair beat you to it. Saying it was a very male thing to do isn't the same as saying women shouldn't or wouldn't do the or feel the same.

If it was Ser Cauthrien up there, saving her beau, you'd almost certainly hear men grumbling just as loudly that they wanted to be the ones who got the final blow in.

Right, it's not like men have a lock on their lover leaving them, either.  *cough* Morrigan *cough*

Modifié par Recidiva, 15 décembre 2009 - 08:40 .

[DeathWyrmNexus]

tigrina wrote...

DeathWyrmNexus wrote...
Equations for you.

Alistair = Man
Man = relevant to talking about Alistair
Male cultural and genetic drives = relevant to talking about Alistair

Why would I need to talk about women's drives when I am talking about Alistair? Are you seriously that thin skinned where every comment about men has to have some apologist talk about women?

I didn't need to mention the Mama Bear drive because Alistair isn't a woman. I didn't feel the need to say "Women can do it too lulz" because I was under the false impression that I was talking to people old enough to play the game and thus technically old enough to understand that not every comment will have to include them directly.

Ugh...

Let me get this straight: first of all you generalise all men and women simultaneously and then you're surprised people don't like it?

Right.

I understand why Alistair does what he does, but don't come up with this .. kind of excuse. Bah.

Actually... I generalized men not women. So, I suppose that makes you the third moron. Enjoy.

[DeathWyrmNexus]

Recidiva wrote...

Jayce F wrote...

Yes and anyone who says its only the right of men to so, is a prat of the highest order. But to be fair, saying that isn't the same thing as saying men have a strong protective instinct of their spouses. It's just as valid an argument for women too, in fact if anything, women are twice as protective and vicious as men when it comes to protecting family, believe me, I've seen it.

But that takes us back to the original point. Your character wanted to be the one, Alistair wanted to be the one but Alastair beat you to it. Saying it was a very male thing to do isn't the same as saying women shouldn't or wouldn't do the or feel the same.

If it was Ser Cauthrien up there, saving her beau, you'd almost certainly hear men grumbling just as loudly that they wanted to be the ones who got the final blow in.

Right, it's not like men have a lock on their lover leaving them, either.  *cough* Morrigan *cough*

Care to count the outrage over Morrigan leaving their man threads vs women complaining about Alistair despite having an option to keep him?

Okay... That is too volatile even for me to continue on.

[Jayce]

Colenda wrote...

If it was Ser Cauthrien up there, saving her beau, you'd almost certainly hear men grumbling just as loudly that they wanted to be the ones who got the final blow in.

I suppose the rejoinder to that would be that it isn't Sir Cauthrien up there saving her beau. It's Alistair. It's not that it doesn't make perfect sense (well, to me) in terms of both story and character that Alistair should be two steps ahead and make the killing blow; thing is, a wannabe feminist acadamic would probably say something about traditional prejudices dictating the narrative outcomes.

True but then one could apply a seemingly feminist ideal to Morrigan's decision to dump male characters in favour of whatever it is she and Flemeth planned all along. You can argue gender stereotyping about many many things. That doesn't mean it is gender stereotyping.

In fact, one can say they are in balance. Morrigan ultimately places duty above love... and it sucks for the main character and then Alastair places love above duty... and it sucks for the main character.

Modifié par Jayce F, 15 décembre 2009 - 08:56 .

[bobsmyuncle]

I get you're frustrated. Personally I wondered why my mage was standing there picking her nose instead of casting force field on him like she'd been doing earlier. But I think it was just an executive decision on the writer's part re: what their character would do. Not because of gender, necessarily, but because he's a romantic idiot. He'd probably been plotting it since Riordan brought it up, honestly, and he just beat you to it (call it writer's fiat).



I don't think sexism has anything to do with the decision on the part of Mr. Gaider and I don't feel it's productive to level such accusations without evidence, because I haven't seen sexist attitudes from the writing team in this case. Look at the setting: there's anachronistic gender equality in a time when in the real world people thought women went crazy because of the uterus traveling about inside her body. I don't think evidence supports the assertion that Mr. Gaider et al think the little ladies need protectin'.



PS to Kerridan: David does it for the fangirls.