329 réponses à ce sujet

[DariusKalera]

sagequeen wrote...

well, in Alistair's defense, he does inform you early on that he was raised to be a "gentleman" by the chantry. surely they teach their young charges that saving a woman from certain death by taking out the archdemon is a gentlemanly thing to do. if you take issue with his sense of chivalry, i'd say take issue with the chantry that taught it to him.

Yes, the Chantry teaches all their Templars to be gentlmen and chivalrous.  Unless of course its hunting down apostate women at which point chivalry flies out the window and the Templars can hack the women to peices.

[Recidiva]

Colenda wrote...

*sad whine* *hangs head*

Okay.  You can have some.  I am such a pushover.

[Lotion Soronarr]

robertthebard wrote...

I guess nobody really gets Mal Reynolds. He's not a leader because he was forced to be. Nobody forced him to buy Serenity, and set off to start out a really nice, if short lived series.

Didn't he buy the ship cause he wanted to be free? Cause he wanted to get away from the Alliance, find a place for himself?
That's a different kind of forced, but it's still there.
Same for Alistair - he joined the wardens cause he really didn't have a place for himself.

[Brightarrow]

I loved the Romance with Alistair. At the Landsmeet you have to think what would you do in a situation like that... you are the heir to the thrown of Ferelden. you suddenly have all this responsibility not just as a Grey Warden but as a future King. I would totally go off the deep end too. I dont fault Alistair. I just wish Grey Wardens didnt have to look forward to dieing in a horible way in 30 years.



David Gaider please dont change the way you put romance in these wonderful games. It was nice and yes I cried at the end of my first play through because Alistair did not let my pc take the finale blow and sacrificed himself gulp sigh. but that is why i loved it so. It evoced a feeling in me that only books or some movies have in the past... it was nice.



Thanks



sorry for the misspellings

[Lotion Soronarr]

Cybercat999 wrote...
And then, when his duty lies clearly in becoming and staying the king for the best of his people, he suddenly decides to drop all that and goes to get himself killed over me.
Now I dont know if its just me but the only thing I see in that kind of action is actually Alistair getting the easy way out of his problems.

Yes, because people are so rational when the love of their life is about to die and adrenaline is pumpin something fierce....

[HarlequinDream]

tigrina wrote...

Mary Kirby wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Obviously, if Alistair loves the PC so much that he's willing to sacrifice himself, it should go that the PC is allowed the option to sacrifice herself first out of her love.  What is it that automatically demands Alistair gets a headstart?

The PC has the option to do that.  Leave Alistair behind.  Nobody ever said you would get the option to succeed at everything simply because you want to.

It requires metagaming knowledge to do this. Not having the option of choice when you've already stated you *will* do the killing blow is just..

Ah well, no point to this. I just disagree.

I actually don't think it requires that much of metagame knowledge.

The PC knows they're going to face the Archdemon and a Gray Warden has to die to kill it. While I can understand the PC wanting to be with Alistair until the end... if she takes him with her (intending to take the final blow herself) she will be forcing him to watch her die. So, not wanting him to see that, she tells him to man the gates.

I've already decided that my girl romancing Leliana is going to leave her at the gates for the same reason. "I know it's going to be bad, and I don't want you to see it."

[Lotion Soronarr]

Recidiva wrote...
All of which are entirely in keeping with his hero's (Duncan's) methods.  So even if you listen to him carefully about his hero worship of Duncan and his defense of Duncan...hell, Duncan killed Ser Jory.  Not a blink from Alistair.  Nada.  So killing people in cold blood and making them drink darkspawn blood - good.  Becoming King, sparing his life and making sure Ferelden has a good leader well...that's just unforgivable.

ERm..since when does the cutscene show Alistair face when Duncan kills Jory? Not to mention that Jory drew his blade first!
And declaring that sparing Loghain is something Duncan would do as a fact is bull****.

[tigrina]

HarlequinDream wrote...

tigrina wrote...
It requires metagaming knowledge to do this. Not having the option of choice when you've already stated you *will* do the killing blow is just..

Ah well, no point to this. I just disagree.

I actually don't think it requires that much of metagame knowledge.

The PC knows they're going to face the Archdemon and a Gray Warden has to die to kill it. While I can understand the PC wanting to be with Alistair until the end... if she takes him with her (intending to take the final blow herself) she will be forcing him to watch her die. So, not wanting him to see that, she tells him to man the gates.

I've already decided that my girl romancing Leliana is going to leave her at the gates for the same reason. "I know it's going to be bad, and I don't want you to see it."

You do have a good point here, I honestly didn't see it this way, but I can totally see it now. Thanks 

Modifié par tigrina, 14 décembre 2009 - 09:43 .

[Brightarrow]

Duncan will do any thing... ANYTHING to stop the blight... he told my mage that in the begining of the game when i asked him about bloodmages.. so if Alistair is really emulating his hero Duncan he should be fine with doing anything to stop the blight. But he was also raised in a Chantry and spoon fed religiouse propaganda for most of his childhood. the poor boy was confused as hell.

Modifié par Brightarrow, 14 décembre 2009 - 09:47 .

[HarlequinDream]

tigrina wrote...

HarlequinDream wrote...

tigrina wrote...
It requires metagaming knowledge to do this. Not having the option of choice when you've already stated you *will* do the killing blow is just..

Ah well, no point to this. I just disagree.

I actually don't think it requires that much of metagame knowledge.

The PC knows they're going to face the Archdemon and a Gray Warden has to die to kill it. While I can understand the PC wanting to be with Alistair until the end... if she takes him with her (intending to take the final blow herself) she will be forcing him to watch her die. So, not wanting him to see that, she tells him to man the gates.

I've already decided that my girl romancing Leliana is going to leave her at the gates for the same reason. "I know it's going to be bad, and I don't want you to see it."

You do have a good point here, I honestly didn't see it this way, but I can totally see it now. Thanks 

Glad to give a new perspective.

[Recidiva]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

ERm..since when does the cutscene show Alistair face when Duncan kills Jory? Not to mention that Jory drew his blade first!
And declaring that sparing Loghain is something Duncan would do as a fact is bull****.

I'm not arguing any more and I'm baking cookies.  Well, I've already had this argument before and I'm baking cookies.

Discussing interpretations and impressions not as much fun as it was a bit ago.  You are worthy and all that, but I'm not up to it. 

I accept that I suck, I'm wrong, and I'm baking now.

[Ravenshrike]

The best way to describe Alistair in relation to Mal is this. Alistair is a Malcolm Reynolds from before the War. Moreover, his inner core is fractured by Duncan's death, and so when all he believes in is destroyed, he shatters instead of standing under the blow.

Modifié par Ravenshrike, 14 décembre 2009 - 09:52 .

[robertthebard]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

I guess nobody really gets Mal Reynolds. He's not a leader because he was forced to be. Nobody forced him to buy Serenity, and set off to start out a really nice, if short lived series.

Didn't he buy the ship cause he wanted to be free? Cause he wanted to get away from the Alliance, find a place for himself?
That's a different kind of forced, but it's still there.
Same for Alistair - he joined the wardens cause he really didn't have a place for himself.

No, by the time Duncan had to invoke the Rite, Alistair would have happily stayed a Templar.  He had long since grown up, and even mentions this in dialog.  Now, he supposedly likes being a Grey Warden more, but that remains to be seen by how he acts if you don't harden him at the Landsmeet and you decide to let Loghain live.  Then, in what can only be described as a pure lvl 10 hissy fit, he decides he wants to be King, simply so he can kill Loghain.

Regarding Mal, he chose to buy the ship, and get a crew initially for work.  At the beginning of the show, they aren't all that big on the Alliance, but they aren't all that worried about avoiding them either, barring questionable salvage operations.  Hence Haley hawking passengers in the very first episode, something that never happens again.  Watch the episode where the ship catches fire, and he finally sends his crew off.  He stayed, and he stayed w/out knowing that someone would eventually show up.  Then he manages to thwart the pirates, and even fix the ship, even though he didn't quite make it to the button to call the crew back.  This is a very Malcom Reynolds thing to do, but not something that I would see Alistair doing.  Even the professed motivation of loving the PC and taking the killing blow doesn't float with me, he took it because he didn't want to be King, and knew this was his out.

That's what's nice about the writing.  The motivation may seem real on the surface, and it may even be what's intended, but do you see how easy it is to twist it?  I can see Alistair, in the above Firefly scenario, getting in the shuttle with Inara.

[PatT2]

@Recidiva, you don't suck. And you aren't wrong. Maybe what you want can't be worked at a budget that Bioware can afford. That doesn't make you wrong. And you definitely (at least you writing) doesn't suck. Not at all.



However, cookies are a fine way to make the situation better. Always. Chocolate chip perhaps? Or those really light chocolate ones with powdered suger blotches on them that grandma always used to make... Hey...I could do that...



I haven't had 2 cents to add to this thread, but I have enjoyed it immensely.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Recidiva wrote...
As a WOMAN...no guy has explained to me how this works.  What makes it fair or right.  It just IS.  Every male asked this question dismisses it as a silly question.  No man lets his woman die.

Even my husband.

There's no logic to this, just heart. 

Ye old protective instincts. Like a mother protecting her young, men have an inborn instinct to protect women.
There really is no logic there, just a very strong drive to take a bullet...even if you barely know a woman.

[Recidiva]

PatT2 wrote...

@Recidiva, you don't suck. And you aren't wrong. Maybe what you want can't be worked at a budget that Bioware can afford. That doesn't make you wrong. And you definitely (at least you writing) doesn't suck. Not at all.

However, cookies are a fine way to make the situation better. Always. Chocolate chip perhaps? Or those really light chocolate ones with powdered suger blotches on them that grandma always used to make... Hey...I could do that...

I haven't had 2 cents to add to this thread, but I have enjoyed it immensely.

Thank you.  I draw the line at actually appearing to insult the creator of a game I respect.  Artistic ambitions being different than economic realities is a much more serious thing and demands baked goods.  Or a stew.  Discussing characters in abstract isn't something I wish to do other than to give my appreciative interpretation.  And as it is truly not my world, I'll just bow out of this one and bake.  Chocolate chip are good.  Macadamia and lime are excellent.  Snickerdoodles.  Oatmeal raisin.  Ginger snap tuille.

[robertthebard]

Recidiva wrote...

PatT2 wrote...

@Recidiva, you don't suck. And you aren't wrong. Maybe what you want can't be worked at a budget that Bioware can afford. That doesn't make you wrong. And you definitely (at least you writing) doesn't suck. Not at all.

However, cookies are a fine way to make the situation better. Always. Chocolate chip perhaps? Or those really light chocolate ones with powdered suger blotches on them that grandma always used to make... Hey...I could do that...

I haven't had 2 cents to add to this thread, but I have enjoyed it immensely.

Thank you.  I draw the line at actually appearing to insult the creator of a game I respect.  Artistic ambitions being different than economic realities is a much more serious thing and demands baked goods.  Or a stew.  Discussing characters in abstract isn't something I wish to do other than to give my appreciative interpretation.  And as it is truly not my world, I'll just bow out of this one and bake.  Chocolate chip are good.  Macadamia and lime are excellent.  Snickerdoodles.  Oatmeal raisin.  Ginger snap tuille.

Will you marry me, I promise, I'll let you kill the Archdemon if it ever comes up...

[Recidiva]

robertthebard wrote...

Will you marry me, I promise, I'll let you kill the Archdemon if it ever comes up...

You had me at "I'll let you kill the Archdemon"!

[kevinwastaken]

Recidiva wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Will you marry me, I promise, I'll let you kill the Archdemon if it ever comes up...

You had me at "I'll let you kill the Archdemon"!

Polygamy is against the law in these United States!

Modifié par kevinwastaken, 14 décembre 2009 - 10:13 .

[kuurankuiskaus]

This thread inspired me to doodle!

result: http://kuurankuiskau...ilers-146776224



Sorry, I couldn't help myself. And it's midnight here. I have excuses!

[Recidiva]

kevinwastaken wrote...

Polygamy is against the law in these United States!

*sigh*  So my husband keeps telling me.  But I can keep a list in case he changes his mind, can't I?

[Recidiva]

kuurankuiskaus wrote...

This thread inspired me to doodle!
result: http://kuurankuiskau...ilers-146776224

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. And it's midnight here. I have excuses!

Oh my.  That's awesome.  Extra cookies for you.

[kuurankuiskaus]

Cookies! I LOVE cookies! o,...,o

[tigrina]

Recidiva wrote...
Thank you.  I draw the line at actually appearing to insult the creator of a game I respect.  Artistic ambitions being different than economic realities is a much more serious thing and demands baked goods.  Or a stew.  Discussing characters in abstract isn't something I wish to do other than to give my appreciative interpretation.  And as it is truly not my world, I'll just bow out of this one and bake.  Chocolate chip are good.  Macadamia and lime are excellent.  Snickerdoodles.  Oatmeal raisin.  Ginger snap tuille.

Don't be so hard on yourself, I think you explained yourself well! Besides, it has been a good discussion and an informative thread, this one. I'm not so sure you insulted the writers to be honest, definitely not after your explanation, but that is not my call to make.

Edit:

kuurankuiskaus wrote...

This thread inspired me to doodle!
result: http://kuurankuiskau...ilers-146776224

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. And it's midnight here. I have excuses!

Now that made me giggle, thanks for sharing

Modifié par tigrina, 14 décembre 2009 - 10:20 .