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[Reptilian Rob]

terdferguson123 wrote...

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

terdferguson123 wrote...

OP, you didn't pay attention much in the game did you?

The Relays were created by the Reapers as a way for organics to move along the paths that the Reapers desired. This means, that the relays are indeed part of the cycle, whether or not the Reapers are destroyed or not. The point is, the destruction of the relays represents organics moving along their own path without any Reaper influence.

If there is one thing that I am learning about this whole "We hate the ending no matter what!!!1!!1" fiasco, it's that the people who are so hellbent on hating it, usually didn't pay attention to the storyline very well.

Who cares? Those paths led to death by the Reapers and the Reapers are now destroyed. Remnants of the cycle lead to nothing, it just doesn't matter anymore.

How is this not a big deal? Are you legitimately going to tell me that altering the way natural evolution and technological advancement being handed to those who are not ready for it is something that doesn't matter? 

Because the unity of the galaxy as a whole by these devices wasn't proof enough. 

What Shep said to TIM is completely different than the actual use of existing technology such as the relays and the Citadel. 

[The Angry One]

MisterJB wrote...

Or they will work to develop their own technology that doesn't rely on Eezo. The Relays being destroyed fits with the theme of ending the Cycle and creating a new galaxy, our galaxy as opposed to the Reaper's.

Oh for god's sake.
Everybody's going to just up and give up a method of travel that's proven to work because the Reapers invented it.
Really? Really? It doesn't work that way.

Do you know what people are going to do in the far future when they get over this dark age? They will build mass relays. Because they know it works!

If their destruction bother some people so much, then just pick Control where they are only damaged.

And the Reapers stay also. Which is missing the damn point.

[terdferguson123]

D24O wrote...

terdferguson123 wrote...

D24O wrote...

I agree. Technology has no inherent morality, it's how we choose to apply it. The relays are no more evil than the gun TIM uses to shoot Anderson. There's no real build up that the relays are inherently evil, and they don't go deep enough into the "make your own path" idea to really justify destroying the setting.

Except that techonology is often created by those without morality as a priority. In this case, the Reapers didn't create the relays simply as a way to fast travel. They created them so that organics would follow exactly in the path they chose.

And the reaper thread is supposed to be over, so that function doesn't apply anymore.

Your still not hearing me. It doesn't matter that the Reapers are gone, what matters is that the technology they left behind was created for that specific purpose. It exists beyond theirselves, and continues to put into play their plan of sped up advancement, which is unnatural. Science is a double edged sword, one must work to understand the potential outcomes of their creations. If that is just given to them, like it was in the case of the relays, the chances of something terrible happening in it's wake is amplified extensively.

[D24O]

terdferguson123 wrote...

How is this not a big deal? Are you legitimately going to tell me that altering the way natural evolution and technological advancement being handed to those who are not ready for it is something that doesn't matter? 

I don't see why we haven't earned it. I think rendering its "evil" purpose obsolete gives us the right to use them.

[The Angry One]

terdferguson123 wrote...

How is this not a big deal? Are you legitimately going to tell me that altering the way natural evolution and technological advancement being handed to those who are not ready for it is something that doesn't matter? 

a) Yet again, that's already happened. Nuking the mass relays won't change that.

 By what criteria do you say they're not ready? What makes them not ready? A species must already be spacefaring and self-sufficient to find a mass relay in the first place.

[Reptilian Rob]

The Angry One wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Or they will work to develop their own technology that doesn't rely on Eezo. The Relays being destroyed fits with the theme of ending the Cycle and creating a new galaxy, our galaxy as opposed to the Reaper's.

Oh for god's sake.
Everybody's going to just up and give up a method of travel that's proven to work because the Reapers invented it.
Really? Really? It doesn't work that way.

Do you know what people are going to do in the far future when they get over this dark age? They will build mass relays. Because they know it works!

If their destruction bother some people so much, then just pick Control where they are only damaged.

And the Reapers stay also. Which is missing the damn point.

Stayboy: "Releasing the energy of the Crucible will destroy the relays"

All choices lead to their destruction. 

[terdferguson123]

The Angry One wrote...

terdferguson123 wrote...

D24O wrote...

I agree. Technology has no inherent morality, it's how we choose to apply it. The relays are no more evil than the gun TIM uses to shoot Anderson. There's no real build up that the relays are inherently evil, and they don't go deep enough into the "make your own path" idea to really justify destroying the setting.

Except that techonology is often created by those without morality as a priority. In this case, the Reapers didn't create the relays simply as a way to fast travel. They created them so that organics would follow exactly in the path they chose.

Irrelevant. They have a use now. To us. That has nothing to do with why the Reapers created them.
The Romans built roads to rapidly spread the influence of their empire. Did others using them after their fall continue to spread their influence? Yeah.. no.

Yes, and roads can destroy star systems. I get your analogy, unfortanately your comparing something the size of the sun to pluto.

[The Angry One]

terdferguson123 wrote...

Your still not hearing me. It doesn't matter that the Reapers are gone, what matters is that the technology they left behind was created for that specific purpose. It exists beyond theirselves, and continues to put into play their plan of sped up advancement, which is unnatural. Science is a double edged sword, one must work to understand the potential outcomes of their creations. If that is just given to them, like it was in the case of the relays, the chances of something terrible happening in it's wake is amplified extensively.

You do realise most of humanity/Asari/etc's advancents are from the Prothean archives, not the relays. Some of which probably still exist?
Also.. they've already advanced! Third time I'm telling you this. The "damage" has been done!

[justafan]

I think the metaphor behind the loss of the relays is a good one. The way i see it, the relays were nothing more than tools of the reapers, a galactic fence to keep the sheeplike races of the galaxy in one place for the slaughter. With them gone, life is free to find its own way. Sure many will die as a result of being unable to cope in a world without the safety and reliability the relays provided, but ultimately life will find a way.

My problem is that the endings didn't do a good enough job of showing this. What we are left with is a feeling that their destruction was a tacked on consequence to have a bittersweet ending. Much like the geth perishing in destroy, it comes off as an artificial attempt to elicit sadness, instead of giving hope as it should have done.

[Ticonderoga117]

MisterJB wrote...
Or they will work to develop their own technology that doesn't rely on Eezo. The Relays being destroyed fits with the theme of ending the Cycle and creating a new galaxy, our galaxy as opposed to the Reaper's.

If their destruction bother some people so much, then just pick Control where they are only damaged.

"Hey guys! We need to make a ton of FTL-capable ships from scratch or we are all going to starve. Should we use the tech we have an understanding in, or completely start from scratch at the theory level?"

Oh yeah, that's a great idea! [/sarcasm]

Also, the Galaxy is ours now regardless of the Reapers, for they are destroyed.

Double also, Control still destroys the relays.
GlowBoy: "Releasing the energy of the Crucible will destroy the relays."

Notice how he mentions that for all the choices. Nice Job Breaking it Hero.

[The Angry One]

terdferguson123 wrote...

Yes, and roads can destroy star systems. I get your analogy, unfortanately your comparing something the size of the sun to pluto.

The nature of the technology is not the issue, it's effect is. Technology is not inherently good or bad. It doesn't have an agenda.

[grey_wind]

Because if the Relays had not been blown to hell, then the Reapers would be defeated without any real cost. This was the problem with having a Deus Ex Machina defeat the Reapers.
Had it simply been a conventional battle, then the costs could have involved sacrificing certain races in order to gain an advantage over the Reapers in order to ultimately annihilate them. But for the image of the Reapers' godlike power to still be preserved (not that it matters with Star-Jar anyway) when all it takes to kill them is an off-button, some great arbitrary sacrifice had to be made up - which turned out to be retardedly nuking galactic civilization.

[Seryl]

For the Destroy ending, it does make sense that the relays, the Geth and EDI are destroyed. The Crucible destroys all Reaper tech, which the relays are built from, while the Geth and EDI both have incorporated. I hate the endings as they stand, but the relays going BOOM does make sense if you kill the Reapers.

That said, I'd like for one of the ME3 DLCs to focus on how we'd rebuild the relays or reignite them. Maybe have it centre around the Mars Archives.

[D24O]

justafan wrote...

My problem is that the endings didn't do a good enough job of showing this. What we are left with is a feeling that their destruction was a tacked on consequence to have a bittersweet ending. Much like the geth perishing in destroy, it comes off as an artificial attempt to elicit sadness, instead of giving hope as it should have done.

It's not that the endings don't show it, it's that the trilogy doesn't really go deep enough into the topic. To us they are what keeps the galaxy connected, what makes the ME universe interesting, and the games don't show us they they really need to be gone.

[Reptilian Rob]

grey_wind wrote...

Because if the Relays had not been blown to hell, then the Reapers would be defeated without any real cost. This was the problem with having a Deus Ex Machina defeat the Reapers.
Had it simply been a conventional battle, then the costs could have involved sacrificing certain races in order to gain an advantage over the Reapers in order to ultimately annihilate them. But for the image of the Reapers' godlike power to still be preserved (not that it matters with Star-Jar anyway) when all it takes to kill them is an off-button, some great arbitrary sacrifice had to be made up - which turned out to be retardedly nuking galactic civilization.

Amen dude. 

"Retarded" doesn't even begin to cover it. I would label it...Story genocide instead. 

[AngryFrozenWater]

The Angry One wrote...

You know what would've been inspiring and uplifting?

Looking over the Citadel and the relay network and realising that for the first time, they're ours. We earned them. The Reapers are gone. Now the galaxy's species are left to make their own legacy with the tools that brought them together in the first place.

But no let's just blow them up good YEEHAW.

Bah. I wish you would post something I disagree with. :lol:

[sth88]

The Angry One wrote...

You know what would've been inspiring and uplifting?

Looking over the Citadel and the relay network and realising that for the first time, they're ours. We earned them. The Reapers are gone. Now the galaxy's species are left to make their own legacy with the tools that brought them together in the first place.

Man, that would have been a beautiful sight to see...

[The Angry One]

Seryl wrote...

For the Destroy ending, it does make sense that the relays, the Geth and EDI are destroyed. The Crucible destroys all Reaper tech, which the relays are built from, while the Geth and EDI both have incorporated. I hate the endings as they stand, but the relays going BOOM does make sense if you kill the Reapers.

That said, I'd like for one of the ME3 DLCs to focus on how we'd rebuild the relays or reignite them. Maybe have it centre around the Mars Archives.

See were that the case then the Normandy's Eezo core should go up like a supernova.

[The Angry One]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

You know what would've been inspiring and uplifting?

Looking over the Citadel and the relay network and realising that for the first time, they're ours. We earned them. The Reapers are gone. Now the galaxy's species are left to make their own legacy with the tools that brought them together in the first place.

But no let's just blow them up good YEEHAW.

Bah. I wish you would post something I disagree with. :lol:

Uhm... I think synthesis is right!

[ThatDancingTurian]

terdferguson123 wrote...

How is this not a big deal? Are you legitimately going to tell me that altering the way natural evolution and technological advancement being handed to those who are not ready for it is something that doesn't matter? 

You can't change the past. Destroying the relays doesn't change anything, if anything they'll end up being rebuilt or a very similar technology based on them will be used in the future. We already know about them, what's the point in trying to come up with something different just for the sake of difference? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And who's to say when someone is 'ready' for it? We did a fine job of using the relays before.

People are given technology they don't fully understand all the time. It's happening right now. In the Mass Effect world, it happened to the krogan and they started a massive, bloody war. It happened to the asari and they became super-goddesses who are good at everything. It's up to the individual where they let that technology take them, especially now that we don't have the guiding hand of the Reapers leading us to our destruction.

[Reptilian Rob]

The Angry One wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

You know what would've been inspiring and uplifting?

Looking over the Citadel and the relay network and realising that for the first time, they're ours. We earned them. The Reapers are gone. Now the galaxy's species are left to make their own legacy with the tools that brought them together in the first place.

But no let's just blow them up good YEEHAW.

Bah. I wish you would post something I disagree with. :lol:

Uhm... I think synthesis is right!

Dudet, that's not even funny...

Not cool. 

[Seryl]

The Angry One wrote...

Seryl wrote...

For the Destroy ending, it does make sense that the relays, the Geth and EDI are destroyed. The Crucible destroys all Reaper tech, which the relays are built from, while the Geth and EDI both have incorporated. I hate the endings as they stand, but the relays going BOOM does make sense if you kill the Reapers.

That said, I'd like for one of the ME3 DLCs to focus on how we'd rebuild the relays or reignite them. Maybe have it centre around the Mars Archives.

See were that the case then the Normandy's Eezo core should go up like a supernova.

Reapers didn't build the Normandy's drive core. They directly built the relays, and their tech is directly incorporated into the Geth and EDI. The ship drive cores would be Human/Asari/Turian/etc. versions of their tech. Different enough to not be effected.

It still feels arbitrary, but that point doesn't bother me much.

[Erixxxx]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

It's the equivalent of destroying all the Stargates in Stargate and all the Troopers in Starship Troopers.

It's in the goddamn name FFS. MASS Effect.

Plus the Citadel was a symbol of unity and leadership, destroying that was unintentional symbolism (Walters couldn't even create symbolism if he tried) of the destruction of unity and the relays being destroyed thus stranding everyone.

The name is indeed Mass Effect. Not Mass Effect Relays.

And the Citadel is not destroyed with Control. The relays don't blow up either like they do in the other two endings.

[MisterJB]

The Angry One wrote...
Oh for god's sake.
Everybody's going to just up and give up a method of travel that's proven to work because the Reapers invented it.
Really? Really? It doesn't work that way.

Do you know what people are going to do in the far future when they get over this dark age? They will build mass relays. Because they know it works!

In real life, sure. This is not real life and Bioware should not write an epilogue that goes against the theme of the endings. It would be better if we invented our own form of travel in all endings but Control.
Still, ultimately, those relays would still be our creations, not the Reaper's.

And the Reapers stay also. Which is missing the damn point.

The point is to stop the Reapers. If they are on a leash, then they have been stopped.

Ticonderoga117 wrote...
Double also, Control still destroys the relays.
GlowBoy: "Releasing the energy of the Crucible will destroy the relays."

Notice how he mentions that for all the choices.

Compare the Control ending with the others. You can see the Relay being damaged but there is no all-encompassing explosion.

[dreamgazer]

I like the fact that the five stars next to the thread title seem to be bleeping out an expletive.

Oh, and I agree. Actually, I can think of a few headcanon reasons why the relays might need to be eliminated to end the threat, but it's completely forced in the context of the game as it stands.