200 réponses à ce sujet

[FBI-Azzurri]

Gamefront has been the best source for information since witnessing the 10 minute crapfest ending. Seriously, these guys have written one great article after another and this one is yet another masterpiece to add to their collection. Gamefront > IGN and everything else.

[Erixxxx]

xsdob wrote...

This person relys on false information to bash walters and hudson, citing a bioware employee leak long confirmed fake.

Otherwise it's just parroting what the BSN is writitng to appeal to the masses, which is working.

It's funny how the truth is only accepted when it's convenient. That article stinks of the author trying to score cheap points on being populistic.

[crimzontearz]

and once again I repeat....if I was to ever buy a Bioware game again I would first make VERY SURE that Mac and Casey had nothing to do with it....and if they did that it was just making coffee

oh oh....and I guess I need to apologize because, you know, I am not telling them they are awesome

[Grimwick]

I usually hate all things that spew out of these 'critics' but I have to agree with the first two paragraphs at least.

[AngryFrozenWater]

It is good to know to keep the expectations low. There are a lot different opinions here and the EC wouldn't be able to address them all. But even if I read posts of outspoken fans, most agree that the ending is full of contradictions and that it was detached from the rest of the game. I think a lot of us would like to see that changed. It seemed it didn't happen. Instead we got the initial "closure" and "clarification" idea implemented. That will make the EC even more controversial than the initial ending, because obviously BW will never admit that the ending is crap. It makes one thing clear, though: BW is not interested in our feedback anymore. I think their policy to silence critics will not pay off.

[Necrotron]

BrotherWarth wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Flyprdu wrote...

xsdob wrote...

This person relys on false information to bash walters and hudson, citing a bioware employee leak long confirmed fake.

Otherwise it's just parroting what the BSN is writitng to appeal to the masses, which is working.

Derp.

Explain?

Everything I typed is true, for one thing he uses patrick weekes as the writer who said casey and mac are to blame and soley wrote the endings, despite patrick weekes comming out and publicly writting that he never wrote the statement quoted months ago when it was first posted to the BSN.

But the posts were made using Weekes account, which by his own admission was not hacked. He was using the account just a day later to post about other things. So it was not fake. It was a moment of frustration and honesty on Weekes' part, but he had to say it was fake to save face and protect himself.

This.  It was confirmed fake to protect Bioware and it's employees, not because it was actually not true.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Another well put article by Game Front.

[ratzerman]

So now we're comparing Mass Effect to the works of Kubrick and Dick?

Too bad that, up until the last 5 minutes of the final game, Mass Effect wasn't anything like a Kubrick or Dick story, nor was it intended to be.

A tonal shift that profound, right at the very end, is a mistake. It doesn't matter how intellectually stimulating it might be. It doesn't fit with the other 99% of the content that preceded it.

And I agree with the author of the article. Mac and Casey still don't get it, and they never will.

[Reth Shepherd]

xsdob wrote...

Flyprdu wrote...

xsdob wrote...

This person relys on false information to bash walters and hudson, citing a bioware employee leak long confirmed fake.

Otherwise it's just parroting what the BSN is writitng to appeal to the masses, which is working.

Derp.

Explain?

Everything I typed is true, for one thing he uses patrick weekes as the writer who said casey and mac are to blame and soley wrote the endings, despite patrick weekes comming out and publicly writting that he never wrote the statement quoted months ago when it was first posted to the BSN.

And it is an appeal to the masses, this reads like something mitt romney would type to try and win over the gaming demographic, right down to the gaff.

But, I think trying to experiment with a open ending for the last game was a bad idea, however I will see whether they close the endings and give real answers to the important questions.

Except that Weekes had every reason to deny writing it, as he wanted to keep his job. The facts are that whoever wrote that post wrote it in a place where he expected it would go to only a small, select group of people, the post was in his writing style, his account was never reported hacked by him or any other, it WAS his account as confirmed quite some time before this debacle, and when someone interviewed him at...what was it, PAX?, some of his statements not only agreed with the mystery author, but he quoted sections from the post nearly word-for-word. Was it him? We'll never know for 100% sure. But there is more evidence suggesting he did than there is saying he didn't.

[The Night Mammoth]

hammerfan wrote...

humes spork wrote...

Yes, the irony of professional storytellers asking the audience to rely on their own imaginations to fill in the gaps they didn’t bother to cover, and then being somewhat surprised when they weren’t able to do it, is indeed funny.

I don't even know where to begin with this. It's almost as if whoever wrote this article has never seen a Kubrick film, read anything by Philip K. Dick or seen any of the films based upon his works.

Comparing these guys to Philip K. Dick is just so very, very wrong...

Both in that K. Dick is deserving of more respect than that, and because the comparison is flawed as well. 

[FBI-Azzurri]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Another well put article by Game Front.

I agree. They are not afraid to tackle the beast that is EA, while all these other game sties kiss their asss because they get money from EA for ads. *cough IGN cough*.

[Mcfly616]

humes spork wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Unfortunately, it appears to be indicative of the modern era's progression towards a new mainstream perception of narrative. It's a real shame.

Indeed. Hell, it wasn't but ten years ago that Minority Report came out and got absolutely carpet bombed for its ending among moviegoers and critics alike...until people figured the ending out, anyhow.

I loved Minority Report....everybody I know, likes that movie.....and idk what you're referring to when you say "figured out the ending".....because it was pretty straight forward, as Cruise narrated the entire epilogue

[Erixxxx]

Reth Shepherd wrote...

Except that Weekes had every reason to deny writing it, as he wanted to keep his job. The facts are that whoever wrote that post wrote it in a place where he expected it would go to only a small, select group of people, the post was in his writing style, his account was never reported hacked by him or any other, it WAS his account as confirmed quite some time before this debacle, and when someone interviewed him at...what was it, PAX?, some of his statements not only agreed with the mystery author, but he quoted sections from the post nearly word-for-word. Was it him? We'll never know for 100% sure. But there is more evidence suggesting he did than there is saying he didn't.

Why would he write it in the first place then? I've been following him on Twitter for a while, he's an intelligent guy. There's is no way in hell he would have thought it wouldn't come to light if he posted something like that.

[TransientNomad]

Garlador wrote...

humes spork wrote...

Yes, the irony of professional storytellers asking the audience to rely on their own imaginations to fill in the gaps they didn’t bother to cover, and then being somewhat surprised when they weren’t able to do it, is indeed funny.

I don't even know where to begin with this. It's almost as if whoever wrote this article has never seen a Kubrick film, read anything by Philip K. Dick or seen any of the films based upon his works.

I don't think you can apply this in a universal sense.

The problem with Mass Effect 3, and Mass Effect in general, is the first two and a half games made sure to give you SOOOO MUCH info. Every little minutia of the ME universe was explained in insanely in-depth, highly-intricate detail. Everything from how armor worked to how Asari had sex to how Volus breathe to how Elcor communicate to what Hanar believe to how engines work and how, when, and where every weapon was developed. Every planet was given a description and history. Every race came with generations of baggage. Every creature from every planet had its study, and every action you did or did not do was very vividly and clearly shown the consequences for.

... And all of that was ignored in the most vital part of the game, the ending. After over 200 hours of being told everything and expected to know how and why things are what they are, the ending ignored that entirely and literally decided that the only reason it should exist is for "speculation".

... But "speculation" may be a hallmark of Kubrick and Philip K. Dick, and all their works do this from beginning to end. The difference is ME1-3 (sans ending) never were about "speculation". In fact, with the wealth of info dumping the codex EXISTS for, ME was actually far more about realism, clarity, and descriptive information. It was not a fantasy sci-fi, it was a hard-science sci-fi, and nothing about anything in the prior games came about because of "speculation".

The fact that speculation only exists as a theme in the ending is a betrayal of their original tennants of knowledge and intel. Ambiguity was never their aim, and if it was they poorly conveyed that theme over the last five years and several games.

^This^ 

Mass Effect to me was on par with Star Wars and Star Trek.  Entertaining stories with a solid beginning, middle, and end.  It was simple, delightful story of heroes and villains.

2001 Space Odyssy was a great movie, I really like it, but in terms of narrative, its about as far from Mass Effect (at least the original two and most of three) as, say, the Great Gatsby or Les Misrables.  It ("it"being the heavy handed philosophical plot device) was shorn into the end of Mass Effect to make it seem "deeper" and "thought provoking" but did so at the cost of canon, logic, and most of all accomplishment.

In short, there is a time and place for Asimov, Kubrick, Philip K. Dick, etc.  Mass Effect was not that place, and the conclusion to a otherwise straightforward space opera was definitely not the time.

[mumwaldee369]

Game Front is owned by Gamestop correct?

[Mcfly616]

ratzerman wrote...

So now we're comparing Mass Effect to the works of Kubrick and Dick?

Too bad that, up until the last 5 minutes of the final game, Mass Effect wasn't anything like a Kubrick or Dick story, nor was it intended to be.

A tonal shift that profound, right at the very end, is a mistake. It doesn't matter how intellectually stimulating it might be. It doesn't fit with the other 99% of the content that preceded it.

And I agree with the author of the article. Mac and Casey still don't get it, and they never will.

Yeah.....Idk where they were going with this comparison.....the thing about ME3, is that its the final installment of a space opera "trilogy".....no trilogy should end with an open ended and ambiguois conclusion that leaves the entire thing up to the players imagination.....did Kubrick ever make a space opera trilogy? No....no he didnt

[xsdob]

So, because it is convenient to believe that patrick weekes told the truth and than flip flopped worse than mitt romney than to believe what was actually said, it's now the denounced statement which is true and the response from patrick weekes himself which is fake.

So in your scenario patrick weekes is a weakling who folds to the slightest pressure and will never do anything good or take any risk.

And in my scenario he's a great writer who didn't post the leak and didn't just go over what he wrote and showed integrity in what he writes.

[mumwaldee369]

xsdob wrote...

So, because it is convenient to believe that patrick weekes told the truth and than flip flopped worse than mitt romney than to believe what was actually said, it's now the denounced statement which is true and the response from patrick weekes himself which is fake.

So in your scenario patrick weekes is a weakling who folds to the slightest pressure and will never do anything good or take any risk.

And in my scenario he's a great writer who didn't post the leak and didn't just go over what he wrote and showed integrity in what he writes.

I imagine PW wants to keep his job and not be blackballed in the industry.

[Siansonea]

It is absurd that the two people who were responsible for the debacle of the ending are the ones tasked with fixing it—and I'm sure they were just as cloistered during their writing sessions. Egos such as these can't get out of their own way, they will never acknowledge their own blind spots, they simply can't see them with all that ego in the way. I'm expecting nothing, I've learned my lesson with this writing duo, and I'm not hoping for anything either. I would LOVE to be proven to be overly pessimistic, but I'm not taking any chances. The Marketingspeak we've been getting gives no reason for optimism.

[Fawx9]

Erixxxx wrote...

Reth Shepherd wrote...

Except that Weekes had every reason to deny writing it, as he wanted to keep his job. The facts are that whoever wrote that post wrote it in a place where he expected it would go to only a small, select group of people, the post was in his writing style, his account was never reported hacked by him or any other, it WAS his account as confirmed quite some time before this debacle, and when someone interviewed him at...what was it, PAX?, some of his statements not only agreed with the mystery author, but he quoted sections from the post nearly word-for-word. Was it him? We'll never know for 100% sure. But there is more evidence suggesting he did than there is saying he didn't.

Why would he write it in the first place then? I've been following him on Twitter for a while, he's an intelligent guy. There's is no way in hell he would have thought it wouldn't come to light if he posted something like that.

Do you remember the first month after the release at all. There was so much tension and hatred around here that you couldn't cut through it with a chainsaw. Even the mods and the Twitter CMs were a bit high strung.

The fact that he or anyone else responded in the heat of the moment shouldn't be a surprise. Their work was litteraly being ripped apart by those that they felt should love it.

Modifié par Fawx9, 25 juin 2012 - 06:07 .

[clennon8]

Yeah, I'm about 95% sure that "fake" Weekes post wasn't fake. He called those guys out, then had second thoughts and took it down.

[The Night Mammoth]

Erixxxx wrote...

Reth Shepherd wrote...

Except that Weekes had every reason to deny writing it, as he wanted to keep his job. The facts are that whoever wrote that post wrote it in a place where he expected it would go to only a small, select group of people, the post was in his writing style, his account was never reported hacked by him or any other, it WAS his account as confirmed quite some time before this debacle, and when someone interviewed him at...what was it, PAX?, some of his statements not only agreed with the mystery author, but he quoted sections from the post nearly word-for-word. Was it him? We'll never know for 100% sure. But there is more evidence suggesting he did than there is saying he didn't.

Why would he write it in the first place then? I've been following him on Twitter for a while, he's an intelligent guy. There's is no way in hell he would have thought it wouldn't come to light if he posted something like that.

Because that's how he felt? 

I'm not having a dig, but it was pretty empassioned and obviously an attempt to get his feelings out there. 

Either his account was hacked, it's not him, or someone high up in the chain of command took issue with it. 

His account wasn't hacked, he said so himself, we know it was him from the accounts previous posts, so the latter is the most obvious. 

I don't have a problem with that. Pretty unprofessional no matter how much I agree. 

[Jassu1979]

The ending of Spielberg's "Minority Report" had very little to do with the Philip K. Dick story it was based on.

And it betrayed the typically Spielbergian need for sappy, saccharine conclusions.

Anyhow, this interview pretty much echoed the impression that I got from listening to the interview. They still avoid even *mentioning* the more fundamental problems of the ending. Heck, even if they *do* disagree with the fans, and think it's mostly fine as it is, it's VERY dishonest to pretend that the uproar is all about "more closure".

[xsdob]

Im backing out of this thread. Perhaps I was wrong and patrick weekes did write it despite completely denying it. Perhaps not and this is an invention of the fanbase to create a talking point.

Probably I'm wrong, but I guess this is something that just won't be known, just more IRL speculation.

But no good can come from me continuing to post here, it would make me pissed off and would make the others in the thread pissed as well.

So, how about we all part ways and stop the argument I started.