200 réponses à ce sujet

[Taboo]

Such behavior persists? This will ultimately be their downfall I'm afraid. I can deal with notions of artistic right, but not when they appear to be so incapable of understanding that they made a mistake.

This type of behavior always comes back to hurt you and it already has to some extent. It's going to be ugly tomorrow, very ugly.

[CronoDragoon]

BrotherWarth wrote...

Yes it is. It adds an entirely new concept and outcome to the ending. And you make the decision well before the final end.

The Dark Ritual IS one of the final choices. If you choose the Dark Ritual, the other choices are not possible. The three final choices are The Dark Ritual, Self-Sacrifice, Sacrifice Al/Lo.

[GreenDragon37]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Such behavior persists? This will ultimately be their downfall I'm afraid. I can deal with notions of artistic right, but not when they appear to be so incapable of understanding that they made a mistake.

This type of behavior always comes back to hurt you and it already has to some extent. It's going to be ugly tomorrow, very ugly.

I got the popcorn all ready to go. Tomorrow... it will be beautiful.

[alsonamedbort]

BrotherWarth wrote...

alsonamedbort wrote...

LOLZ this is not a criminal trial good grief.

Reasonable doubt is not a concept exclusive to trials. If you're arguing over the validity of something like this, the doubt must be reasonable to support your argument. In this case there is no reasonable doubt against my argument.

Well when you're the lawyer, judge, and jury, I guess it's easy to make proclamations like that.

[alsonamedbort]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

alsonamedbort wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

The problem is the EC only listened to one part of the complaints and nothing else.

But you don't actually know this.  The EC isn't even out yet.

Consiering their interview and the fact they only acknowledged the people who wanted "more closure," I do know.

No, you really don't.  You're making an assumption.  They didn't give you any information at all about what the EC looks like at all, save for a couple of screenshots.

[Taboo]

I wanted closure, that's fine with me, but what about everyone else? Are they too not fans?

[Fail_Inc]

Eain wrote...

humes spork wrote...

Yes, the irony of professional storytellers asking the audience to rely on their own imaginations to fill in the gaps they didn’t bother to cover, and then being somewhat surprised when they weren’t able to do it, is indeed funny.

I don't even know where to begin with this. It's almost as if whoever wrote this article has never seen a Kubrick film, read anything by Philip K. Dick or seen any of the films based upon his works.

If you think that Kubrick made his films by giving you a blank setting and a set of colouring pencils, you're gravely underestimating him.

This JUST THIS!

[memorysquid]

TransientNomad wrote...

Garlador wrote...

humes spork wrote...

Yes, the irony of professional storytellers asking the audience to rely on their own imaginations to fill in the gaps they didn’t bother to cover, and then being somewhat surprised when they weren’t able to do it, is indeed funny.

I don't even know where to begin with this. It's almost as if whoever wrote this article has never seen a Kubrick film, read anything by Philip K. Dick or seen any of the films based upon his works.

I don't think you can apply this in a universal sense.

The problem with Mass Effect 3, and Mass Effect in general, is the first two and a half games made sure to give you SOOOO MUCH info. Every little minutia of the ME universe was explained in insanely in-depth, highly-intricate detail. Everything from how armor worked to how Asari had sex to how Volus breathe to how Elcor communicate to what Hanar believe to how engines work and how, when, and where every weapon was developed. Every planet was given a description and history. Every race came with generations of baggage. Every creature from every planet had its study, and every action you did or did not do was very vividly and clearly shown the consequences for.

... And all of that was ignored in the most vital part of the game, the ending. After over 200 hours of being told everything and expected to know how and why things are what they are, the ending ignored that entirely and literally decided that the only reason it should exist is for "speculation".

... But "speculation" may be a hallmark of Kubrick and Philip K. Dick, and all their works do this from beginning to end. The difference is ME1-3 (sans ending) never were about "speculation". In fact, with the wealth of info dumping the codex EXISTS for, ME was actually far more about realism, clarity, and descriptive information. It was not a fantasy sci-fi, it was a hard-science sci-fi, and nothing about anything in the prior games came about because of "speculation".

The fact that speculation only exists as a theme in the ending is a betrayal of their original tennants of knowledge and intel. Ambiguity was never their aim, and if it was they poorly conveyed that theme over the last five years and several games.

^This^ 

Mass Effect to me was on par with Star Wars and Star Trek.  Entertaining stories with a solid beginning, middle, and end.  It was simple, delightful story of heroes and villains.

2001 Space Odyssy was a great movie, I really like it, but in terms of narrative, its about as far from Mass Effect (at least the original two and most of three) as, say, the Great Gatsby or Les Misrables.  It ("it"being the heavy handed philosophical plot device) was shorn into the end of Mass Effect to make it seem "deeper" and "thought provoking" but did so at the cost of canon, logic, and most of all accomplishment.

In short, there is a time and place for Asimov, Kubrick, Philip K. Dick, etc.  Mass Effect was not that place, and the conclusion to a otherwise straightforward space opera was definitely not the time.

I couldn't agree more.  Mass Effect 1 and 2 were a galaxy scaled space opera with loud space explosions and the gentle whooshing space craft in vacuum.  It isn't that I didn't understand their ending, it is that I didn't understand why my hand-wavey space magic shooter complete with badges for kill counts and heads rupturing like ripe melons, suddenly turned into the Red Badge of Courage in ME3 and the last ten minutes into a Coen Bros. style symbolism fest/head trip.  Yeah, I understood the implicit message, but why was it there?  A whole game that was massively symbolic where nothing was what it seemed would be cool; this just wasn't it, so the ending made little sense in context.

[Atakuma]

ArchDuck wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

BioWare didn't give what I was promised, so you're damn right I'm going to complain. Don't like it? Tough nuts. I'm not going to accept this crap.

The EC is what we're talking about here and it's giving you exactly what was promised. don't try to move the goal posts on me.

(snipped)

The EC is giving you exactly what was promised about the EC. Don't be so obtuse.

[NightHawkIL]

I'm surprised more sites didn't jump to write an article in response to the announcement.

[ArchDuck]

Atakuma wrote...

The EC is giving you exactly what was promised about the EC. Don't be so obtuse.

Now who is moving goalposts?

Modifié par ArchDuck, 25 juin 2012 - 07:17 .

[CroGamer002]

xsdob wrote...

This person relys on false information to bash walters and hudson, citing a bioware employee leak long confirmed fake.

Otherwise it's just parroting what the BSN is writitng to appeal to the masses, which is working.

You mean, one that Chris Priestly debunked?



Cause he never lied to us, right?

[Atakuma]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Such behavior persists? This will ultimately be their downfall I'm afraid. I can deal with notions of artistic right, but not when they appear to be so incapable of understanding that they made a mistake.

This type of behavior always comes back to hurt you and it already has to some extent. It's going to be ugly tomorrow, very ugly.

Them admitting to making a mistake would change nothing. There was never any chance of them redoing the ending, the whole situation would have played out the same way.

[memorysquid]

“We have a rule in our franchise that
there is no canon. You as a player decide what your story is."

Oh boy; well then why did I shell out $60? I'll sit at home and imagine me up something neat. Oh wait, I thought I was paying for a visually depicted, interactive story...silly me.

[antares_sublight]

The clash between "your choice" and how Hudson can't say anything besides "the vision we intended" is astounding. BioWare never actually wanted to give a choice of anything major, just a little meaningless variation here and there, whereas the rest of the game is intended to be on rails, riding hard to the glorious vision of Hudson & Waters.

[Alexius]

NightHawkIL wrote...

I'm surprised more sites didn't jump to write an article in response to the announcement.

It's not exactly news.

[Grimwick]

iakus wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

The problem is the EC only listened to one part of the complaints and nothing else. The EC is exactly what the article said, "A bandaid on a gaping wound." It proves that they have been listening selectively, and that every other complaint meant nothing and was shoved aside, because it didn't involve agreeing witht their "artistic ending." The EC was their chancxe to give the people what they really wanted, and they failed.

This.

It seems that only arguments that backed the "this is artistic" line was considered "constructive".  Any problems with the endings themselves was dismissed as irrelevant.

+1

Says it all really.

[Atakuma]

ArchDuck wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

ArchDuck wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

BioWare didn't give what I was promised, so you're damn right I'm going to complain. Don't like it? Tough nuts. I'm not going to accept this crap.

The EC is what we're talking about here and it's giving you exactly what was promised. don't try to move the goal posts on me.

(snipped)

The EC is giving you exactly what was promised about the EC. Don't be so obtuse.

Now who is moving goalposts?

I have been talking about the same thing. Your lack of understanding is not the same thing as me changing the subject.

[SuperVulcan]

 Not sure if this will start a flame war and I'm not trying to but: 

It seems that these two and Bioware altogether are hell-bent on keeping the endings the same. Mr. Hudson said something along the lines that it's 'their ending' and if they changed it, it would not be there's no longer. How do you guys feel hearing that?

[Taboo]

Atakuma wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Such behavior persists? This will ultimately be their downfall I'm afraid. I can deal with notions of artistic right, but not when they appear to be so incapable of understanding that they made a mistake.

This type of behavior always comes back to hurt you and it already has to some extent. It's going to be ugly tomorrow, very ugly.

Them admitting to making a mistake would change nothing. There was never any chance of them redoing the ending, the whole situation would have played out the same way.

I know this, but not saying anything at all makes them look very...obtuse. I know you know this. They cannot hide forever. I'm fine with what the EC promised, but no one can stem the tide of bull**** that will come tomorrow.

[Alexius]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Such behavior persists? This will ultimately be their downfall I'm afraid. I can deal with notions of artistic right, but not when they appear to be so incapable of understanding that they made a mistake.

This type of behavior always comes back to hurt you and it already has to some extent. It's going to be ugly tomorrow, very ugly.

Them admitting to making a mistake would change nothing. There was never any chance of them redoing the ending, the whole situation would have played out the same way.

I know this, but not saying anything at all makes them look very...obtuse. I know you know this. They cannot hide forever. I'm fine with what the EC promised, but no one can stem the tide of bull**** that will come tomorrow.

It can't be worse than the first one.

[Grimwick]

SuperVulcan wrote...

 Not sure if this will start a flame war and I'm not trying to but: 

It seems that these two and Bioware altogether are hell-bent on keeping the endings the same. Mr. Hudson said something along the lines that it's 'their ending' and if they changed it, it would not be there's no longer. How do you guys feel hearing that?

I find it laughable, personally.

It's like trying to defend a stickman as a piece of rennaissance art.

Modifié par Grimwick, 25 juin 2012 - 07:03 .

[Taleroth]

AlexiusDAlex wrote...

It can't be worse than the first one.

I'm skeptical that it will be, but the possibility most definitely exists.

Just imagine every question and problem you had with the original ending. Now they explain it with Starkid magic. This could happen.

Modifié par Taleroth, 25 juin 2012 - 07:05 .

[Atakuma]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I know this, but not saying anything at all makes them look very...obtuse. I know you know this. They cannot hide forever. I'm fine with what the EC promised, but no one can stem the tide of bull**** that will come tomorrow.

I doubt they have much control over what they say. The podcast practically sounded like they were reading cue cards.