200 réponses à ce sujet

[Erixxxx]

alsonamedbort wrote...

Erixxxx wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

If you have a brain and are able to use it objectively then you can see evidence for what it is.
A post explaining what happened was made with Weekes' account.
Weekes's himself used the account the day before and the day after the post in question was made.
He confirmed and the site confirmed that Weekes' account had not been hacked in any way.
Weekes' was asked about the ending at a gaming convention and essentially repeated what the post said.

Him saying he didn't write it is meaningless since he admitted the only way it could have been fake didn't happen.

"Probably" and "undeniable truth" are two completely different things. I admit it looks fishy, but if you use it as basis for an article you sure as hell don't say "this is what happened". You say "This is probably what happened, but we don't know for certain".

This is an important subtlety that seems to be lost on at least a couple of posters here.  Props to you for "having a brain" and "being able to use it objectively."

Thanks. But it's like talking to a wall in here.

[CronoDragoon]

BrotherWarth wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

Yes it is. It adds an entirely new concept and outcome to the ending. And you make the decision well before the final end.

The Dark Ritual IS one of the final choices. If you choose the Dark Ritual, the other choices are not possible. The three final choices are The Dark Ritual, Self-Sacrifice, Sacrifice Al/Lo.

You make the decision to take part in the dark ritual before the end and still have have multiple choices at the end. The decision can shape the ending, but it is not one of the final choices.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. Go watch the cutscene after the Archdemon battle having previously agreed to do the Dark Ritual. You have no choice to sacrifice yourself or someone else. It cuts right to the cinematic where the Warden takes a sword and kills the archdemon. The Dark Ritual precludes all other ending choices. It is a final ending choice. I can't make it any clearer than that.

[Samuel_Valkyrie]

For now, I'm willing to give Hudson e.a. the benefit of the doubt, is saying that they're corporate lackeys controlled by EA, with no spine of their own, whose actions are controlled by a PR management team that is out of touch with emancipated players, who are capable of thinking for themselves and not afraid to do so.

In other words: this interview is propaganda, saying as little as possible, in order to not upset anyone. As such, it will probably not reflect the actual EC.

The EC can still be something worthwhile, and I will be checking it out. But if it disappoints, I shall refuse to buy any other EA game. After all: this situation is less Bioware's fault, and more the standard Modus Operandi of EA, stripmining their assets.

[ArchDuck]

Atakuma wrote...

ArchDuck wrote...

Now who is moving goalposts?

I have been talking about the same thing. Your lack of understanding is not the same thing as me changing the subject.

Ah I see. If you change the subject they are talking about and you accuse them of moving goalposts, its OK. If I do it back then its not OK. I understand.

Modifié par ArchDuck, 25 juin 2012 - 07:13 .

[Apocaleepse360]

Once again they are only listening to parts that they want to hear. Why am I not surprised?

[Seryl]

Atakuma wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Such behavior persists? This will ultimately be their downfall I'm afraid. I can deal with notions of artistic right, but not when they appear to be so incapable of understanding that they made a mistake.

This type of behavior always comes back to hurt you and it already has to some extent. It's going to be ugly tomorrow, very ugly.

Them admitting to making a mistake would change nothing. There was never any chance of them redoing the ending, the whole situation would have played out the same way.

Admitting the mistake would have changed everything. If they had admitted that they screwed up:

1. People would have been much more forgiving and there would be less mistrust and animosity right now.
2. The EC would have been done to resolve the actual problems with the ending instead of just "clarifying" the crap that was presented.

The end result of that would have been people saying "You screwed up, but most is forgiven. Thank you", rather than the current blood hunt.

The behaviour that Taboo is talking about is the arrogance and hubris that Hudson and Walters have shown constantly since March. They really don't see anything wrong with what they did. That attitude is why people are getting angry all over again. This whole thing, including the interview they gave, misses the point entirely, while at the same time sounds like it has a "You're all to stupid and ignorant to understand the magnitude of our vision, so here's 1.9gb to explain it to you" tone to it.

This whole situation would have been avoided had they said two simple little words, namely "We're sorry". Instead, they chose PR and marketing speak. What did they think would happen?

[RogueBot]

Wow... they were interviewed by their own employee? LMAO, Bioware never fails to entertain.

[Reorte]

AlexiusDAlex wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I know this, but not saying anything at all makes them look very...obtuse. I know you know this. They cannot hide forever. I'm fine with what the EC promised, but no one can stem the tide of bull**** that will come tomorrow.

It can't be worse than the first one.

Only because quite a few people will have already given up and purged Mass Effect from their memory as much as they can.

I expect the storm will still hit hard; I've heard nothing to suggest that the EC will do anything other than exaggerate all the mistakes with the ending. Still, hope I'm wrong.

[Reorte]

Seryl wrote...

Admitting the mistake would have changed everything. If they had admitted that they screwed up:

1. People would have been much more forgiving and there would be less mistrust and animosity right now.
2. The EC would have been done to resolve the actual problems with the ending instead of just "clarifying" the crap that was presented.

The end result of that would have been people saying "You screwed up, but most is forgiven. Thank you", rather than the current blood hunt.

The behaviour that Taboo is talking about is the arrogance and hubris that Hudson and Walters have shown constantly since March. They really don't see anything wrong with what they did. That attitude is why people are getting angry all over again. This whole thing, including the interview they gave, misses the point entirely, while at the same time sounds like it has a "You're all to stupid and ignorant to understand the magnitude of our vision, so here's 1.9gb to explain it to you" tone to it.

This whole situation would have been avoided had they said two simple little words, namely "We're sorry". Instead, they chose PR and marketing speak. What did they think would happen?

This is oh so very true. The unwillingness to admit to the mistakes is human enough but if the EC just rubs salt in the wounds (and so far it sounds like it will) then it's just beyond belief.

Please, please prove me completely wrong tomorrow.

[savionen]

Seryl wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Such behavior persists? This will ultimately be their downfall I'm afraid. I can deal with notions of artistic right, but not when they appear to be so incapable of understanding that they made a mistake.

This type of behavior always comes back to hurt you and it already has to some extent. It's going to be ugly tomorrow, very ugly.

Them admitting to making a mistake would change nothing. There was never any chance of them redoing the ending, the whole situation would have played out the same way.

Admitting the mistake would have changed everything. If they had admitted that they screwed up:

1. People would have been much more forgiving and there would be less mistrust and animosity right now.
2. The EC would have been done to resolve the actual problems with the ending instead of just "clarifying" the crap that was presented.

The end result of that would have been people saying "You screwed up, but most is forgiven. Thank you", rather than the current blood hunt.

The behaviour that Taboo is talking about is the arrogance and hubris that Hudson and Walters have shown constantly since March. They really don't see anything wrong with what they did. That attitude is why people are getting angry all over again. This whole thing, including the interview they gave, misses the point entirely, while at the same time sounds like it has a "You're all to stupid and ignorant to understand the magnitude of our vision, so here's 1.9gb to explain it to you" tone to it.

This whole situation would have been avoided had they said two simple little words, namely "We're sorry". Instead, they chose PR and marketing speak. What did they think would happen?

Totally agree. If it were just a crap ending and they said they'd fix it, I'd be willing to shell out money for the next DLC or whatever until they fixed it. But instead, I'm so jaded that I'm not even sure I want to download the EC. Will probably wait for fan opinions.

You can't really fix something that is broken unless you acknowledge that it IS indeed broken. I imagine the EC will mostly just put a happier face on the ending and compound the bad dialogue with more bad dialogue, and that's it.

Modifié par savionen, 25 juin 2012 - 07:12 .

[element eater]

interviewed by an employee of your own company - interview lacks any credibility

even with that in mind there ansers werent very good

[Manure]

RogueBot wrote...

Wow... they were interviewed by their own employee? LMAO, Bioware never fails to entertain.

Just a publicity stunt. Still better then beeing interviewed by a 3rd party with a pre-agreed question sheet.

[Captain_Obvious]

SuperVulcan wrote...

 Not sure if this will start a flame war and I'm not trying to but: 

It seems that these two and Bioware altogether are hell-bent on keeping the endings the same. Mr. Hudson said something along the lines that it's 'their ending' and if they changed it, it would not be there's no longer. How do you guys feel hearing that?

Insulted, actually.  It's their ending, that's cool, but the dismissive "that isn't the ending you are looking for" and "go about your business" tone makes me think that they don't have enough integrity to recognize valid criticism.  Whether or not they act on that criticism is up to them, but they should still recognize it as valid.  Honestly, I don't think they have learned anything from this.  I guess tomorrow will tell the tale...

[Vilegrim]

actually just had a thought: Since BW consider genocide a viable game ending, maybe DA3 will let you wipe the maker cult off the face of the world. That would almost make things better..almost.

[Atakuma]

Seryl wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Such behavior persists? This will ultimately be their downfall I'm afraid. I can deal with notions of artistic right, but not when they appear to be so incapable of understanding that they made a mistake.

This type of behavior always comes back to hurt you and it already has to some extent. It's going to be ugly tomorrow, very ugly.

Them admitting to making a mistake would change nothing. There was never any chance of them redoing the ending, the whole situation would have played out the same way.

Admitting the mistake would have changed everything. If they had admitted that they screwed up:

1. People would have been much more forgiving and there would be less mistrust and animosity right now.
2. The EC would have been done to resolve the actual problems with the ending instead of just "clarifying" the crap that was presented.

You are naive if you thought there was ever a possibility of them making a new ending. first off it would have taken far more time to complete than the EC. Second it would cost too much to justify giving it away for free and they know that charging for it was not going to fly. So the EC was all we were ever going to get.

[Manure]

Captain_Obvious wrote...

SuperVulcan wrote...

 Not sure if this will start a flame war and I'm not trying to but: 

It seems that these two and Bioware altogether are hell-bent on keeping the endings the same. Mr. Hudson said something along the lines that it's 'their ending' and if they changed it, it would not be there's no longer. How do you guys feel hearing that?

Insulted, actually.  It's their ending, that's cool, but the dismissive "that isn't the ending you are looking for" and "go about your business" tone makes me think that they don't have enough integrity to recognize valid criticism.  Whether or not they act on that criticism is up to them, but they should still recognize it as valid.  Honestly, I don't think they have learned anything from this.  I guess tomorrow will tell the tale...

Maybe they will learn when new dlc and game sales go down.

[Alexius]

Reorte wrote...

AlexiusDAlex wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I know this, but not saying anything at all makes them look very...obtuse. I know you know this. They cannot hide forever. I'm fine with what the EC promised, but no one can stem the tide of bull**** that will come tomorrow.

It can't be worse than the first one.

Only because quite a few people will have already given up and purged Mass Effect from their memory as much as they can.

I expect the storm will still hit hard; I've heard nothing to suggest that the EC will do anything other than exaggerate all the mistakes with the ending. Still, hope I'm wrong.

The reason everyone got so mad before was because of the justified over-.hype. There's no such thing now. I'm hopeful myself, but not stupid. I guess that'll be the case with many tomorrow.

Of course, there are people who will hate every minute from the start, but there isn't much to do about them.

[RogueBot]

Manure wrote...

RogueBot wrote...

Wow... they were interviewed by their own employee? LMAO, Bioware never fails to entertain.

Just a publicity stunt. Still better then beeing interviewed by a 3rd party with a pre-agreed question sheet.

True, but it's just very amusing to me how they make no effort to act like they're not living in their own little world. It's just a small example of how bad Bioware is at PR. Most companies would at least pretend to man up.

Modifié par RogueBot, 25 juin 2012 - 07:29 .

[lord_shift]

Atakuma wrote...

Seryl wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Such behavior persists? This will ultimately be their downfall I'm afraid. I can deal with notions of artistic right, but not when they appear to be so incapable of understanding that they made a mistake.

This type of behavior always comes back to hurt you and it already has to some extent. It's going to be ugly tomorrow, very ugly.

Them admitting to making a mistake would change nothing. There was never any chance of them redoing the ending, the whole situation would have played out the same way.

Admitting the mistake would have changed everything. If they had admitted that they screwed up:

1. People would have been much more forgiving and there would be less mistrust and animosity right now.
2. The EC would have been done to resolve the actual problems with the ending instead of just "clarifying" the crap that was presented.

You are naive if you thought there was ever a possibility of them making a new ending. first off it would have taken far more time to complete than the EC. Second it would cost too much to justify giving it away for free and they know that charging for it was not going to fly. So the EC was all we were ever going to get.

An admission of a mistake would have lent a much favorable position for BioWare. Regardless of how you feel about the EC or even ME in general, if a developer made a bad call and apologized for it, it shows their sincerity in their craft. Many others have done it. Too bad BioWare didn't. It would've immensely helped their cause and respect, in my opinion.

[Taboo]

They're going to have a very difficult time going forward if they continue with this type of thought process. They are not filmmakers out to be lauded by the art community. They are a business. Frustrating people withing the parameters of the latter always comes back to bite you in the ass.

More than anything, this is a fascinating sociological phenomenon.

[Reorte]

AlexiusDAlex wrote...

The reason everyone got so mad before was because of the justified over-.hype. There's no such thing now. I'm hopeful myself, but not stupid. I guess that'll be the case with many tomorrow.

Of course, there are people who will hate every minute from the start, but there isn't much to do about them.

If the EC turns out to be a big troll that reinforces everything that was wrong then the anger will return. It's unlikely to be quite the same magnitude; whatever it contains it'll probably make some people happy but anything that indicates the attitude hasn't changed will produce the same anger because that hype was all part of that attitude. That's what annoys people more than the details (and why there would have been far less of it if at some point there had been an "Oops, we messed up, we're sorry").

[memorysquid]

Samuel_Valkyrie wrote...

For now, I'm willing to give Hudson e.a. the benefit of the doubt, is saying that they're corporate lackeys controlled by EA, with no spine of their own, whose actions are controlled by a PR management team that is out of touch with emancipated players, who are capable of thinking for themselves and not afraid to do so.

In other words: this interview is propaganda, saying as little as possible, in order to not upset anyone. As such, it will probably not reflect the actual EC.

Well they obviously aren't going to tell you what is in the EC prior to release, but other than that what they said is perfectly clear.  They thought the ending was cool, and apparently thought their own headcanon would be apparent to everyone.  It wasn't sooo, voila!  EC!  Propagnda implies a biasing of reality; why are you presuming they are lying, when what they are saying the EC does is exactly what they've said it will do all along?  There's not even a nominal difference.

[Atakuma]

lord_shift wrote...

An admission of a mistake would have lent a much favorable position for BioWare. Regardless of how you feel about the EC or even ME in general, if a developer made a bad call and apologized for it, it shows their sincerity in their craft. Many others have done it. Too bad BioWare didn't. It would've immensely helped their cause and respect, in my opinion.

It's true that it would ultimately help, however people still wouldn't have gotten what they wanted, and would still complain incessantly about it regardless.

Modifié par Atakuma, 25 juin 2012 - 07:28 .

[lord_shift]

Atakuma wrote...

lord_shift wrote...

An admission of a mistake would have lent a much favorable position for BioWare. Regardless of how you feel about the EC or even ME in general, if a developer made a bad call and apologized for it, it shows their sincerity in their craft. Many others have done it. Too bad BioWare didn't. It would've immensely helped their cause and respect, in my opinion.

It's true that it would ultimately help, however people still wouldn't get what they wanted and would still complain incessantly about it regardless.

Well, the sad state of the human condition is prevalent on both sides of the fence here, but that's a discussion for another time ;-)

[savionen]

Atakuma wrote...

lord_shift wrote...

An admission of a mistake would have lent a much favorable position for BioWare. Regardless of how you feel about the EC or even ME in general, if a developer made a bad call and apologized for it, it shows their sincerity in their craft. Many others have done it. Too bad BioWare didn't. It would've immensely helped their cause and respect, in my opinion.

It's true that it would ultimately help, however people still wouldn't have gotten what they wanted, and would still complain incessantly about it regardless.

Quite a bit of generalizations. I would have no problem with them adding a few hours to the ending, in an expansion that takes them 6 months to a year to develop, for 10-20 bucks. Infact, I'd much prefer that than the EC.