200 réponses à ce sujet

[Mylia Stenetch]

Taboo-XX wrote...

They're going to have a very difficult time going forward if they continue with this type of thought process. They are not filmmakers out to be lauded by the art community. They are a business. Frustrating people withing the parameters of the latter always comes back to bite you in the ass.

More than anything, this is a fascinating sociological phenomenon.

This is nothing new in the gaming world. It is a double edged sword. No matter what you do you are alienating one side of anything, with the extreme polarization that happens. As soon as ME3 came out and people saw the ending sucked it was either damned if you do or damned if you don't. There is no better option, it was only trying to withstand the backlash and try and recoup.

[Seryl]

Atakuma wrote...

Seryl wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Such behavior persists? This will ultimately be their downfall I'm afraid. I can deal with notions of artistic right, but not when they appear to be so incapable of understanding that they made a mistake.

This type of behavior always comes back to hurt you and it already has to some extent. It's going to be ugly tomorrow, very ugly.

Them admitting to making a mistake would change nothing. There was never any chance of them redoing the ending, the whole situation would have played out the same way.

Admitting the mistake would have changed everything. If they had admitted that they screwed up:

1. People would have been much more forgiving and there would be less mistrust and animosity right now.
2. The EC would have been done to resolve the actual problems with the ending instead of just "clarifying" the crap that was presented.

You are naive if you thought there was ever a possibility of them making a new ending. first off it would have taken far more time to complete than the EC. Second it would cost too much to justify giving it away for free and they know that charging for it was not going to fly. So the EC was all we were ever going to get.

No, I don't think it's naievity. They could have produced an entirely new ending in the three months they've had. They didn't even give a release date so they could have even taken a few extra weeks.

They already wrote a script, rescheduled voice actors, tasked their developers and artists to make new scenes, dialogues, etc. all in three months. There is no reason that they couldn't have done the same thing, had them produce a new ending instead. That would have actually been easier because the writers wouldn't be restricted to working within established scenes. From a time and cost point of view, making an entirely new ending vs. adding ten minutes to what they've already done isn't a big difference.

They didn't do that because making a completely new ending would have necessitated them saying "We were wrong". Given Hudson and Walter's continuing attitude, that will never happen. Thus, we get "clarification" and a renewal of the anger directed toward them.

[Atakuma]

Ultimately the one thing I think everyone can agree on, is that Bioware's PR is atrocious.

[ArchDuck]

Atakuma wrote...

lord_shift wrote...

An admission of a mistake would have lent a much favorable position for BioWare. Regardless of how you feel about the EC or even ME in general, if a developer made a bad call and apologized for it, it shows their sincerity in their craft. Many others have done it. Too bad BioWare didn't. It would've immensely helped their cause and respect, in my opinion.

It's true that it would ultimately help, however people still wouldn't have gotten what they wanted, and would still complain incessantly about it regardless.

Your problem is your blanket statements.
Some people would have still complained. Some of them might have done so incessantly. Some people, such as myself, would have accepted their admission as it allows hope for future products that head-in-the-sand type statements do not.

Unless you are psychic, in which case you would know exactly what would happen. Also science would like to have talk and a study.

[Taleroth]

Atakuma wrote...


You are naive if you thought there was ever a possibility of them making a new ending. first off it would have taken far more time to complete than the EC. Second it would cost too much to justify giving it away for free and they know that charging for it was not going to fly. So the EC was all we were ever going to get.

Charging for a Lair of the Shadow Broker sized DLC with new gameplay and a new ending would have flown over a heck of a lot better than 10 minutes of free nothing.

Modifié par Taleroth, 25 juin 2012 - 07:37 .

[Mylia Stenetch]

Atakuma wrote...

Ultimately the one thing I think everyone can agree on, is that Bioware's PR is atrocious.

It is one of the few Canadian companies that has worse PR than the one I work for....and that is bad!

[Taboo]

Atakuma wrote...

Ultimately the one thing I think everyone can agree on, is that Bioware's PR is atrocious.

Unanimously.

[ArchDuck]

Atakuma wrote...

Ultimately the one thing I think everyone can agree on, is that Bioware's PR is atrocious.

Agreed.

[Seryl]

Mylia Stenetch wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

Ultimately the one thing I think everyone can agree on, is that Bioware's PR is atrocious.

It is one of the few Canadian companies that has worse PR than the one I work for....and that is bad!

Air Canada? Is that you? 

[Mylia Stenetch]

Seryl wrote...

Mylia Stenetch wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

Ultimately the one thing I think everyone can agree on, is that Bioware's PR is atrocious.

It is one of the few Canadian companies that has worse PR than the one I work for....and that is bad!

Air Canada? Is that you? 

My god, I am not at Celine Dion level hate....Bioware is not even that close...yet. 

Modifié par Mylia Stenetch, 25 juin 2012 - 07:41 .

[CronoDragoon]

Taleroth wrote...

Charging for a Lair of the Shadow Broker sized DLC with new gameplay and a new ending would have flown over a heck of a lot better than 10 minutes of free nothing.

I don't know, there was a loooot of "I want a new ending and I WANT IT FREE" going around in March. I really really wished people hadn't taken that stance because I maintain an alternate ending paid DLC was the best compromise for everyone involved. But considering the level of vitriol - and the baseless rumors (still) going around that Bioware purposefully held back the real ending for paid DLC - they really had no choice but to do a free DLC, and financially that left them little choice but to expand on the current endings instead of making new (alternate) ones.

[aj2070]

Atakuma wrote...

Ultimately the one thing I think everyone can agree on, is that Bioware's PR is atrocious.

Wow, seconded. 

[covertdrizzt]

Erixxxx wrote...

alsonamedbort wrote...

Erixxxx wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

If you have a brain and are able to use it objectively then you can see evidence for what it is.
A post explaining what happened was made with Weekes' account.
Weekes's himself used the account the day before and the day after the post in question was made.
He confirmed and the site confirmed that Weekes' account had not been hacked in any way.
Weekes' was asked about the ending at a gaming convention and essentially repeated what the post said.

Him saying he didn't write it is meaningless since he admitted the only way it could have been fake didn't happen.

"Probably" and "undeniable truth" are two completely different things. I admit it looks fishy, but if you use it as basis for an article you sure as hell don't say "this is what happened". You say "This is probably what happened, but we don't know for certain".

This is an important subtlety that seems to be lost on at least a couple of posters here.  Props to you for "having a brain" and "being able to use it objectively."

Thanks. But it's like talking to a wall in here.

I've been looking at this agrument and if I ever have to face a trial by a jury of my peers, I want you on the jury.
If this was in fact a criminal case- pw would be tried convicted and executed.  People have been executed with far less evidence.

[Manure]

lord_shift wrote...
Well, the sad state of the human condition is prevalent on both sides of the fence here, but that's a discussion for another time ;-)

Yes, but buyer-seller relationship are governed by different rules. It´s good PR for the seller to show an apologetic tone even if they are only slightly to blame...
Insted, all i see from the writers is more gasoline beeing thrown to the fire with their arrogance.

[Fraq Hound]

Taleroth wrote...

Atakuma wrote...


You are naive if you thought there was ever a possibility of them making a new ending. first off it would have taken far more time to complete than the EC. Second it would cost too much to justify giving it away for free and they know that charging for it was not going to fly. So the EC was all we were ever going to get.

Charging for a Lair of the Shadow Broker sized DLC with new gameplay and a new ending would have flown over a heck of a lot better than 10 minutes of free nothing.

I think alot of people would have bought it.

Mass Effect was my favorite Sci-Fi universe for a good five years and that ending totally balls up the whole trilogy. I'd pay alot more then $10 dollars to fix that atrocity, just so I could feel the way I used to feel about this universe.

I would never buy another Bioware product, were this the case, but chances are I probably wont buy another Bioware product anyways.

I would at least be able to say that Bioware created my favorite Video Game series, I would be able to recommend it to anyone who asked, and most importantly I would be able to look back on it with joyful nostalgia. Instead it's just pain, and regret.

[txmn1016]

Thanks for posting. Not sure if I totally agreed with all of the article, but I do have to say that I found it a little disappointing that they chose the community manager to do this "interview" which consisted entirely of prescripted softball questions. They could have just announced that the EC was being released and left it at that. Adding a completely pointless interview with two people who have been MIA for the past few months was just kind of insulting.

[stysiaq]

Right now, being overly pessimistic is easier than having any hope.

Yes, the podcast being nothing more than answering to easy, not harmful questions, covered with some marketing trash talk, wasn't the greatest thing to be heard.

But I still have some faith in this world and that means:
1) I believe that the developers are serious about their product
2) that they are able of admitting and correcting mistakes they made
3) that they realised there's gotta be a healthy discussion with all the writing team to create something decent, seeing what locking yourself in a two man squad can lead to.

I saw some optimism in the podcast, when Casey Hudson told us, that the rest of the team came to his office with ideas how to explain the piles of bs within the ending. That means something, at least for me.

I still believe, that the podcast took its form on purpose, so our expectations are fairly low, so that what we'll get will actually exceed them. I still believe, that the team made a list of most common improvements listed here, on the BSN, which don't interfere with their crappy storytelling, if they intended to keep it (like showing war assets).

I still want the EC to be a success, not another failure we can laugh at.

[recentio]

xsdob wrote...

This person relys on false information to bash walters and hudson, citing a bioware employee leak long confirmed fake.

Otherwise it's just parroting what the BSN is writitng to appeal to the masses, which is working.

Are you really such a credulous fool that you think the Weekes leak was fake? I pity you.

[lord_shift]

Manure wrote...

lord_shift wrote...
Well, the sad state of the human condition is prevalent on both sides of the fence here, but that's a discussion for another time ;-)

Yes, but buyer-seller relationship are governed by different rules. It´s good PR for the seller to show an apologetic tone even if they are only slightly to blame...
Insted, all i see from the writers is more gasoline beeing thrown to the fire with their arrogance.

Oh, I completely agree. I was more referring to the extreme reactions by all groups, but you're absolutely right. My comment was not entirely for this context.

[Traim Eisenblut]

I missed a question:
"Mr. Hudson, why did you blatently lie to your customers upfront of the release of ME:3 and who do you think is now stupid enough to believe a word you say?"

[CaliGuy033]

dreamgazer wrote...

humes spork wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Unfortunately, it appears to be indicative of the modern era's progression towards a new mainstream perception of narrative. It's a real shame.

Indeed. Hell, it wasn't but ten years ago that Minority Report came out and got absolutely carpet bombed for its ending among moviegoers and critics alike...until people figured the ending out, anyhow.

Many, many moviegoers still don't know about it.

You say "know" about it like it's some absolute truism.  It's a theory.  It's never been confirmed.

Much more likely, Spielberg tacked on a happy ending because that's what the masses want--just like the masses of ME3 fans (and yes, the masses here do want a happy ending, despite protestations to the contrary).

[eoinnx03]

Yeah the podcast was just hollow PR that anyone that knows anything about crisis managment is a big no, no when dealing with the public.

[JamieCOTC]

humes spork wrote...

Yes, the irony of professional storytellers asking the audience to rely on their own imaginations to fill in the gaps they didn’t bother to cover, and then being somewhat surprised when they weren’t able to do it, is indeed funny.

I don't even know where to begin with this. It's almost as if whoever wrote this article has never seen a Kubrick film, read anything by Philip K. Dick or seen any of the films based upon his works.

A good open ending is 2 + ? + ? = 54
Mass Effect 3's ending is 2 + ? +? + ? + ? + ? + ? + ? + ? + ? +? + ? + ? + ? + ? + ? + ? = A.

All joking aside, an open ending is touch to do, but when it works, it works beautifully.  Both Kubrick and Philip K. Dick were masters of the open ending.  BW is not.

[txmn1016]

recentio wrote...

xsdob wrote...

This person relys on false information to bash walters and hudson, citing a bioware employee leak long confirmed fake.

Otherwise it's just parroting what the BSN is writitng to appeal to the masses, which is working.

Are you really such a credulous fool that you think the Weekes leak was fake? I pity you.

Regardless if it is ultimately true, he denied it.  I have to agree that the article did a poor job of conveying that it was a rumor and not a fact.  It shouldn't have been used at all to call them out.  The author had enough ammunition with the ridiculous interview itself.  

[tomcplotts]

Let's be clear. An internal pr puff piece does not constitute an interview. I don't accept these terms.
As far as I know, these two jokers haven't done a post game interview yet.