152 réponses à ce sujet

[estebanus]

HagarIshay wrote...

estebanus wrote...

The illusive man got those eyes after being indoctrinated. He got them after touching the arca monolith, I believe.

As for Kenson: Well, she was fully indoctrinated after weeks, wasn't she? So I guess the reapers may have managed to indoctrinate her in a swift manner like the use of nanides. TIM was slowly being indoctrinated over the run of several decades.

Well, the Illusive man was in the process of indoctrination. He wasn't indoctrinated up until ME3, or else he wouldn't have funded the Lazarus project, nor the suicide mission, at least I think he won't. If there are also the eyes while in the process, then shouldn't Shepard had the eyes before choosing control/synthesis, or not only for the renegade Shepards?

So the eyes are only for people that were in the process of indoctrination for a long time? Why?

I don't really know, to be honest. I mean, being in the first stages of indoctrination means that your views haven't been totally warped yet. You still largely have control over your own mind.

I also think that the reapers wanted Shepard alive, considering Harbingers' interest in Shepard throughout ME2. Maybe that's even how project Lazarus came to be, maybe not. I personally think that the indoctrination accelerated after him losing Shepard.

Again, Shepard wasn't indoctrinated until the very end of the game, considering IT. S/he wasn't indoctrinated, but TIM was. For a long time.

As for your last question: Well, I think that may have something to do with The influence the reapers exert over the body, and it shows the slow neurological decay that occurs after being indoctrinated. However, TIM was in direct contact with reaper technology, so it's possible that that's how his eyes bace that way, which in itself is a little scary, considering control and synthesis at face value.

Look at it this way: right before Shepard dissolves in control and synthesis, you can see the eyes, right? Well, considering that the eyes could very well mean being in direct contact with reaper technology, Shepard could still be indoctrinated, which is really scary.

Now that the person controlling them is indoctrinated him/herself, they can exert their control over their own master, resulting in the reapers being able to influence Shepard's choices themselves. That is a really scary thing that keeps me from choosing control.

[CaliGuy033]

The idea that IT needs to be "debunked" gives it far more credit that it's worth. Spending effort to "debunk" something that was clearly--to any sensible person, anyway--never intended by the developers is an absolute waste of time.

[malakim2099]

I only read the first few bits before my eyes started bleeding from the font color used, but if it's just TIM using "Lazarus Implants" to control Shepard... what about Anderson? Did TIM send some ninjas in and implant Anderson while he was sleeping or something, because he was controlled by TIM also?

[wryterra]

malakim2099 wrote...

I only read the first few bits before my eyes started bleeding from the font color used, but if it's just TIM using "Lazarus Implants" to control Shepard... what about Anderson? Did TIM send some ninjas in and implant Anderson while he was sleeping or something, because he was controlled by TIM also?

Don't you remember the sequence where Anderson dies and Cerberus spend 2 years rebuilding him too? 

No, me either. 

[iAFKinMassEffect3]

This isn't the first time a stupid thread like this appeared and it won't be the last.

[jules_vern18]

Sorry OP, but it looks like your post wasn't necessary - IT has already been debunked by the fact that it will (confirmed) not be featured in the EC. That means....

1). That Bioware did not intend IT from the beginning
2). That the "evidence" for It was therefore unintentional
3). And that the meaning attached to said evidence is nothing more than fanfiction. Entertaining fanfiction, but fanfic nonetheless.

All that is left of IT is it's potential as headcannon should the EC not deliver. Let's hope it doesn't come to that.

[DeathScepter]

Well it hasn't be debunked.

[D24O]

Time to sit back, light a cigar, and enjoy the show before this thread gets locked.

[wryterra]

jules_vern18 wrote...

Sorry OP, but it looks like your post wasn't necessary - IT has already been debunked by the fact that it will (confirmed) not be featured in the EC. That means....

1). That Bioware did not intend IT from the beginning

It didn't feature explicitly in the original ending and isn't featuring explicitly in the EC, that doesn't mean it wasn't an intentional subtext and until it is specifically denied by BioWare, it will remain a possible subtext.

jules_vern18 wrote...
2). That the "evidence" for It was therefore unintentional

Nope, if it's a deliberate subtext it could all be deliberate. The only people who can deny this have chosen not to for whatever reason.

jules_vern18 wrote...
3). And that the meaning attached to said evidence is nothing more than fanfiction. Entertaining fanfiction, but fanfic
nonetheless.

Unless it was deliberately put there which has never been denied, despite how easily it could have been.

[iAFKinMassEffect3]

That said, with all the evidence you have you turned your OP into pro-IT

[thisisme8]

Wow... I've been known to not come over so well in some of my posts (that's a nice way of putting it), but to create this thread is like a personal grudge against a theory. Couldn't you have just discussed it in the thread where they have been discussing it for over 1000 pages?

[malakim2099]

wryterra wrote...

malakim2099 wrote...

I only read the first few bits before my eyes started bleeding from the font color used, but if it's just TIM using "Lazarus Implants" to control Shepard... what about Anderson? Did TIM send some ninjas in and implant Anderson while he was sleeping or something, because he was controlled by TIM also?

Don't you remember the sequence where Anderson dies and Cerberus spend 2 years rebuilding him too? 

No, me either. 

You know, I just would like to know why SPACE MAGIC is okay, but the Indoctrination Theory is bad. Bad writing is acceptable, but fans trying to make sense of the nonsense is not?

And now it seems pretty much confirmed that SPACE MAGIC is the way to go with the EC... that's, better, than the IT?

[v0rt3x22]

IT has already been debunked by the fact that it will (confirmed) not be featured in the EC.

*biggest facepalm ever*

[MegaSovereign]

Yes. As you can clearly see, there are faces, torsos, and legs in that pile of low-res polygons. Now, why it's so low-res I don't know; that might really be an issue with my computer. But I've never had this level of terrible with any other texture in the game...and you have to admit, seeing it so blurry and awful-looking lends it a very eerie quality.

Besides that, why are there SO MANY? There were absolutely not that many people running for the beam. And even if there were, how did they all end up in neat little piles off to the sides? And, most importantly...

Reaper ground forces were beaming the piles of bodies up to the Citadel for harvesting.

EDIT:

Wouldn't be surprised if this thread got locked.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 25 juin 2012 - 08:13 .

[Ageless Face]

wryterra wrote...

TIM told Miranda they were doing it for the human race, to beat the Reapers. Jacob too. All of Cerberus in-fact. Indoctrinated people *lie*. They deceive. They trick. That's sort of the point. 

 

So couldn't TIM also believe it's for the greater good? And why would TIM, if indoctrinated, woudn't want Miranda putting the control chip on Shepard's brain?  

 
And Shepard wouldn't go if TIM said 'Shepard, I want you to go through the Omega 4 relay so that you'll die because I'm your enemy'. No, TIM has to tell Shepard it's their only chance for victory. But please note, he still tells Shepard it's likely a one-way trip. 

 

Again, why bother telling Shepard the risks? Or give Shepard the people like Thane, Miranda (one of his top agents, BTW) or Mordin? TIM could have simply tell Shepard that there's nothing beyond the Omega-4 relay, ot that the danger was little. He also perpares Shepard for the worse, giving him/her upgrades for the Normandy.  

 
If TIM was indoctrinated he doesn't nescessarily KNOW he's following the Reaper agenda. He might even think he IS trying to fight them. That's not my argument. My argument is this:

Reapers & Collectors want Shepard preserved. TIM preserves Shepard. 

Reapers & Collectors want Shepard caught and his crew killed. TIM sends Shepard and crew to Collectors' strongest fortification where they will be hugely outnumbered.

This has been cited as proof TIM isn't indoctrinated. I ask, how is that proof? He is doing, whether deliberately or inadvertantly, what the Reapers want. How is that proof that he is working against them?

Could be, yet because I believe, because of the things I stated above, he wasn't indoc up until the end. And TIM didn't really do what the reapers wanted. Reapers also attacked Sanctuary. Why would they do that, unless the reapers didn't like what he did there? 

[OblivionDawn]

EC won't provide a definitive answer for IT, but it will inevitably make it look more unbelievable or more credible.

It'll likely be the former.

[estebanus]

D24O wrote...

Time to sit back, light a cigar, and enjoy the show before this thread gets locked.

Can you pass me one? I really enjoy the cuban cigars.

[MegaSovereign]

It's "confirmed" that the interpretation will be left untouched. They're expanding on the current scenes. They won't add the plot twist of Shepard waking up at London and continuing his quest from there, which pretty much says that the IT was not the intended, definitive ending that it was hyped up to be.

[ucdcsteve]

jules_vern18 wrote...

Sorry OP, but it looks like your post wasn't necessary - IT has already been debunked by the fact that it will (confirmed) not be featured in the EC.

Where did you see this confirmation? 

[v0rt3x22]

19) Anderson is clearly killed by the laser

Nope.

hahahahahahhaa

[dreamgazer]

ucdcsteve wrote...

jules_vern18 wrote...

Sorry OP, but it looks like your post wasn't necessary - IT has already been debunked by the fact that it will (confirmed) not be featured in the EC.

Where did you see this confirmation? 

A Twitter message from Jessica Merizan confirmed that the EC will neither confirm nor deny its existence, only that one's interpretation shouldn't change based on the new content.  It does mean that the "theory" aspect of it has been somewhat dismissed, but it leaves the interpretation derived from the lore proper.  

Modifié par dreamgazer, 25 juin 2012 - 08:23 .

[thisisme8]

Ok, so I just read it, and I'm not sure what's worse:

The colors in the OP or the over-the-top condescending tone of that one Pro-IT PDF.

We should put them together, the results would be monstrous. Like the birth of a Krogan-Rachni child!

On a side note, has anyone thought it odd that a Krogan male's test for maturity involves defeating a giant phallus and a Krogan woman's test to maturity involves crawling out of a hole?

[DeathScepter]

TIM/Cerberus did save Shepard from the Collector inorder fight them. Outside of ME3, Cerberus's main purpose was to 1)fight the Reapers, 2) Preservation Humanity, 3) Strengthen Humanity regardless of their relationship to Alien Influence.

TIM understands the Reapers a great deal. Basicly His purpose of Rezzing Shepard, giving him an state of the art ship, Two Top Agents and full Crew and An roster of Capable people is his ace in the hole in case the rest of Cerberus went to hell due to the Reaper's plans. TIM is always an Enemy of the Reapers but due to bad writing and Indoctrination he became an unwitting pawn of the Reapers.

[wryterra]

HagarIshay wrote...

wryterra wrote...

TIM told Miranda they were doing it for the human race, to beat the Reapers. Jacob too. All of Cerberus in-fact. Indoctrinated people *lie*. They deceive. They trick. That's sort of the point. 

 

So couldn't TIM also believe it's for the greater good? And why would TIM, if indoctrinated, woudn't want Miranda putting the control chip on Shepard's brain?  

 
And Shepard wouldn't go if TIM said 'Shepard, I want you to go through the Omega 4 relay so that you'll die because I'm your enemy'. No, TIM has to tell Shepard it's their only chance for victory. But please note, he still tells Shepard it's likely a one-way trip. 

 

Again, why bother telling Shepard the risks? Or give Shepard the people like Thane, Miranda (one of his top agents, BTW) or Mordin? TIM could have simply tell Shepard that there's nothing beyond the Omega-4 relay, ot that the danger was little. He also perpares Shepard for the worse, giving him/her upgrades for the Normandy.  

 
If TIM was indoctrinated he doesn't nescessarily KNOW he's following the Reaper agenda. He might even think he IS trying to fight them. That's not my argument. My argument is this:

Reapers & Collectors want Shepard preserved. TIM preserves Shepard. 

Reapers & Collectors want Shepard caught and his crew killed. TIM sends Shepard and crew to Collectors' strongest fortification where they will be hugely outnumbered.

This has been cited as proof TIM isn't indoctrinated. I ask, how is that proof? He is doing, whether deliberately or inadvertantly, what the Reapers want. How is that proof that he is working against them?

Could be, yet because I believe, because of the things I stated above, he wasn't indoc up until the end. And TIM didn't really do what the reapers wanted. Reapers also attacked Sanctuary. Why would they do that, unless the reapers didn't like what he did there? 

1. TIM probably does believe he's doing it for the greater good. Indoctrination warps your beliefs, not radically reverses them. 

2. If TIM said 'Hey Shepard, there's no danger, just go kick their asses' do you think Shepard would have believed him?

3. You're arguing like I'm saying these things prove TIM is indoctrinated. I'm not. I'm just saying they specifically don't prove that he isn't. 

[Rofl a wet sock]

Well that theory just got stomped on.